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Legend [16733]
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Over development is about to ruin our state
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Mar 13, 2024, 7:30 AM
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Many cities in SC are now a victim of developers. City and County leaders have no clue what is taking place under their watch. I just read an article about Clemson halting a project downtown because of public backlash. They referred to it as "Uptown Clemson" is that what it is called now?. I have not been to Clemson in many years and I doubt I would recognize downtown now. Myrtle Beach use to be a place where SOUTHERNERS would go to have fun and enjoy the beach. It is now over run with people from north of the sweet tea line and all the quaint mom and pop hotels have been bulldozed to make way for much larger corporate hotels. The beach front homes in Ocean Drive (now called North Myrtle Beach) are gone. Today you will see only high rise condos where these homes use to be. While things have remained the same in Charleston South of Market Street, North of Market is dotted with UGLY apartment buildings.
Rock Hill is simply a Charlotte suburb now with development and traffic galore. The problem is government leaders. They zone property too liberally and are afraid of not being re-elected if they limit development. Then if a city does place limits on new buildings the county may not. There should be a unified local voice of governing. The developer's point of view says large scale development (apartments, condos, urban sprawl) is needed to build a strong local economy. Most of these large scale developments do not use local architects or contractors. Some money does eventually filter down to the local level but most does not. Then there is the problem of congested roads after new developments. When a new road is built or widened, by the time the work is completed it is already obsolete. And you can't just continue to build more and more roads, that is not the answer. There is something said for a quality of life that diminishes with over crowding. Then there is the issue of lack of a sense of community when new buildings are built. Many times new building lack charm, they are cold and sterile in appearance. What are the two most iconic college basketball coliseums? Cameron at Duke and Allen Fieldhouse in Kansas. What do these two have in common? They are old buildings. I guess my rant is over. I miss how our state and how it use to be and sadly it is too late to turn back.
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110%er [5289]
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
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Mar 13, 2024, 7:39 AM
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Proper infrastructure development in this state has ALWAYS been a problem. Roads, bridges, water, etc have always been an afterthought. Some states know what they are doing, like requiring the developer to foot the bill and build out the necessary infrastructure before they start to build. That never happens here.
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110%er [5289]
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
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Mar 13, 2024, 7:44 AM
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I guess I shouldn’t say never - I’ve heard of some examples. But agree with your point. Very few parts of this state take aesthetics into consideration and those are usually only done in wealthy areas.
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All-TigerNet [10924]
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
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Mar 13, 2024, 9:51 AM
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Agreed. Some developments around Greenville county look like they were built up over different decades. None of the building's architectural styles match. They just cut a road through and sell off different plots of land.
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CU Medallion [55430]
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
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Mar 13, 2024, 8:41 AM
[ in reply to Re: Over development is about to ruin our state ] |
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I tell my wife several times a year that if something was to happen where had to hunt wild game to survive, that most of us would literally starve to death bc most of the land for farming and the woods where wild life use to live and multiply has since been covered with asphalt, concrete, apartment building, and warehouses for the rich to store their overpriced goods. Even the people a bit above average wealth will starve to death with the average and poor.
The saddest part of what has happened in and with our country is this, we the people that vote for our leadership have voted against our survival when the S H I T hits the fan!!!!!
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Orange Blooded [2538]
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
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Mar 13, 2024, 12:06 PM
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There is about 4.8 million acres of farmland and 12.9 million acres of forestland in South Carolina.Plenty of space for wildlife to roam and survive.
The last five years have seen a 5% reduction of farmland, mainly around metropolitan areas. My point is that there are stil vast areas of open spaces and forestland that has not been touched by development.Things aren't so dire as you might think.
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Orange Blooded [2538]
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
Mar 13, 2024, 12:17 PM
[ in reply to Re: Over development is about to ruin our state ] |
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There are 4.8 million acres of farmland and 12.9 million acres of forestland in South Carolina.Plenty of open space for wildlife to roam and survive. The situation is not as dire as you might think.
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CU Medallion [61846]
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Have we courteously asked the wildlife to move to those
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Mar 13, 2024, 12:31 PM
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acres of forestland and asked them to peacefully coexist?
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110%er [6452]
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Re: Have we courteously asked the wildlife to move to those
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Mar 13, 2024, 12:52 PM
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lol preach
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110%er [8054]
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
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Mar 13, 2024, 7:45 AM
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I agree 100%. No planning, no discipline and no regard to what made our state special. John’s Island used to be a beautiful community with many farms and large parcels of land kept in its natural state - beautiful! The mayor for life of Charleston, Joe Riley, came to John’s Island and annexed right down Maybank Highway so he could split the island in two. Once he did that he guaranteed that John’s Island couldn’t incorporate as a town and control its own destiny. Now with apartments, track homes all built on 4-5 ft of fill dirt the amount of flooding has increased. Roads are obsolete. If you want to get onto the island in the morning or off of the island in the afternoon - good luck! There isn’t enough room now to build adequate roads to handle all of the people. This same scenario has repeated itself over and over. There is no where to go.
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CU Medallion [55430]
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
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Mar 13, 2024, 8:57 AM
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To top that off, they allow 5 thousand immigrants into our country every day, and that's not counting the 100-200 thousand that sneak in every year. There should be an armed militia in Texas and Arizona to guard our borders and at least keep out the illegals sneaking in with any means necessary!!!
Message was edited by: allorangeallthetime52®
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Athletic Dir [869]
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Europe does a phenomenal job with high density urban areas, keeping architecture
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Mar 13, 2024, 10:04 AM
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and history at the forefront, and keeping farming and agricultural land abundant. And their public transit is way better and used more for the vast majority of areas. Around urban areas we protect our single family homes, larger lots and limit more efficient use of land and demand roads and because of the sprawl, do not encourage walking, biking and public transit.
If it was desired, our country can handle MANY more people from a pure land-use and density basis. That is not a comment on political aspect of having more people, just purely on what we could handle if we desired.
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110%er [6858]
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If I wanted to live in a dense packed city, I would.
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Mar 13, 2024, 10:21 AM
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Most of us do not wish to live that way.
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Athletic Dir [869]
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Then cities should be more dense.***
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Mar 13, 2024, 10:28 AM
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Hall of Famer [22740]
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
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Mar 13, 2024, 9:45 AM
[ in reply to Re: Over development is about to ruin our state ] |
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I grew up on Johns island in the 60s and 70s. You are correct, it was a great place and outside of a few neighborhoods, still very rural. My brother and sisters still live there and I go back to visit 8-10 times a year - we were just there this past weekend. They still live on a small portion of the farm we grew up on. Their property floods a lot easier now since a huge development has gone in on the other side of River Road from them between the road and the Stono River in an area that was always just wetlands when we were growing up.
The volume of traffic on and off the island is ridiculous. We sat at the Waffle House at Main Road and Hwy 17 yesterday morning having breakfast and the volume of traffic turning from 17 onto Main Road was way more than any of those roads were designed to carry.
I love going back to visit and when we do we usually stay right there at my sister’s house and rarely leave the property because of the traffic, but there is no way I would live there. There are just too many people and cars for the roads to handle.
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Commissioner [976]
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I agree. Another problem is
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Mar 13, 2024, 8:03 AM
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when an elected official has ties to contractors.
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CU Medallion [65528]
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The Eagles knew about this problem way back in 1977. In the song
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8
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Mar 13, 2024, 8:12 AM
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"The Last Resort", they sing:
"Some rich men came and raped the land,
Nobody caught 'em,
Put up a bunch of ugly boxes,
And Jesus, people bought 'em.
And they called it Paradise,
The place to be,
They watched the hazy sun,
Sinking in the sea."
They were talking about California then, but now, it is here.
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CU Medallion [55430]
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Re: The Eagles knew about this problem way back in 1977. In the song
Mar 13, 2024, 9:10 AM
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I'm 71 with diabetes and I don't expect to live all that much longer, plus I have to go for scans of my liver bc it has gotten a lot bigger than it should be, but anyway, if we the people don't be more careful of who they are voting into office that governs our country, our population will soon equal the population of China minus Me  .
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CU Medallion [65528]
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CU Guru [1776]
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I was on the local planning commission
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Mar 13, 2024, 8:16 AM
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until about a year ago. I'm glad to get your opinion because those are things we worried about...whether the project was going to have a compatible look to our community, whether it would be an asset in the long run, question of infrastructure, and even green offset.
It's hard to find the median between building a small town like ours and being true to those issues.
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Legend [16733]
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Re: I was on the local planning commission
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Mar 13, 2024, 8:28 AM
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Berkeley County is looking at a proposed development on Black Tom Road that would include a surf park and other developments. https://www.counton2.com/news/local-news/berkeley-county-news/could-a-surf-attraction-be-coming-to-berkeley-county/
This has been a very rural area since the beginning of time. But State Road (Hwy 176) is now unnavigable since all the new development from Hwy 17A, past Cane Bay and just past Nexton. Cars back up for miles in each direction depending on the time of the day. Look out Black Tom Road, you are next. Welcome to Urban Sprawl. At some point local leaders have to listen to the residents and not developers. In fact most time developers do not even attend zoning meetings. They hire high price attorneys and marketing guys to present their case to the zoning board with a slick presentation.
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Starter [361]
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The entire Charleston and tri county area is horrible
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Mar 13, 2024, 8:53 AM
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The i26 and 526 converge is at least 10 yrs late. I go west on 26 through that area and the incoming traffic is bumper to bumper by 7:00 am and many times earlier without a wreck to blame. Couldn’t imagine having to get in that on an interstate, no less, and have a 30 minute commute take 2 to 3 times what it should if there was normal traffic flow. Then it’s the same way eastbound everyday in the pm drive back home. Lucky for me I am going the opposite way at both times and this is the case every day
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Starter [361]
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Re: The entire Charleston and tri county area is horrible
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Mar 13, 2024, 8:55 AM
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Same way westbound in the pm
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CU Medallion [50947]
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
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Mar 13, 2024, 8:18 AM
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Same in Greenwood - don't know how many projects were completed in the past 2 years, but the paper last week described another 1,000 housing units are currently in the works mostly on the east side of town. Lots of trees being moved to make room for people.
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CU Medallion [65528]
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And yet, in any town you want to look in, lots of EXISTING houses for sale, but
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Mar 13, 2024, 8:24 AM
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apparently nobody wants those, at the rate NEW ones are being built. We are going to wind up with a lot of 1/2 "ghost towns" coming out of this, is my prediction. And another truism, where there are vacant houses in an urban setting, there is an increase in crime.
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Legend [16733]
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Re: And yet, in any town you want to look in, lots of EXISTING houses for sale, but
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Mar 13, 2024, 8:31 AM
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Great point. Sumter, Clarendon and Orangeburg Counties are LOSING population each year but new homes and developments are still going up which leads to your point about a lot of older homes are now vacant.
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Letterman [292]
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Orange Blooded [3110]
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Re: And yet, in any town you want to look in, lots of EXISTING houses for sale, but
Mar 13, 2024, 5:53 PM
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There will be a tons and tons of empty houses in about 15-20 years. All the Baby Boomers will be just over and under 90 years old. When I see all these houses being built, I wonder what’s going to happen with all these houses inhabited by older folks now.
Message was edited by: LemonTiger®
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All-TigerNet [10924]
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
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Mar 13, 2024, 8:48 AM
[ in reply to Re: Over development is about to ruin our state ] |
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The spillover from Greenville is happening for sure in Greenwood. I was riding around with family and counted clearings for I think 5 new subdivisions the other week and that was just on a couple of roads. Probably more not aware of. 1000 is really not too bad I guess though when you have Mauldin and Simpsonville picking up 600-700 in one subdivision.
It is kind of nice though to see delapidated old commercial buildings being torn down in Greenwood for new restaurants and stores. I have family and friends that get tired of going to Greenville or Anderson for certain things.
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Legend [16733]
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
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Mar 13, 2024, 8:58 AM
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NO DON'T TEAR THEM DOW!!! Repurpose them instead.
It will give much more sense of community to repurpose an old building into shops/restaurant versus bulldoze and build a new building.
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Letterman [292]
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
Mar 13, 2024, 9:32 AM
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I disagree it’s natural evolution of an area. That old building might not be suited for the new project.
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All-TigerNet [10924]
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
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Mar 13, 2024, 9:58 AM
[ in reply to Re: Over development is about to ruin our state ] |
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Agreed. Yes there is older buildings being repurposed too I should have mentioned but what do you do with a 50 year old vacant Shoney's building that has probably been leaking for years and does not meet today's ADA requirements?
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Legend [18291]
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
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Mar 13, 2024, 8:31 AM
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Yep Conway has been beyond repair for a couple of years and guess what?? They’re stilll building with no end in site while jacking up all of the prices like we are NYC yet nobody pays that kind of money around here. They’re getting exactly what they want, locals phased out and replaced with the dumbest people imaginable. They ran from a state that they ruined without the ability to understand they ruined it and now their sights are on ruining SC. It’s nobody’s fault but weak South Carolinians who did absolutely nothing. Won’t be to much longer our family who has been in Conway for generations will be moving outta SC for good.
Message was edited by: Mjc3194®
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Orange Blooded [3110]
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
Mar 13, 2024, 6:06 PM
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Well, here in Barnwell, SC we don’t have an interstate within 40 miles of any direction. The whole county population is still a shade under 20,000. It hasn’t changed here at all in the past 20 years other than less jobs and taxpayers. We are sheltered from the Yankees on the coast by Hampton, Allendale, and Bamberg counties. Sheltered by the “Bomb Plant” SRS by 300 square miles of land fenced off with Razor wire. There is nothing but hunting/farm land around here and not a stretch 3 miles long anywhere without a dead deer on the road. Edisto and Savannah rivers on either side of the county.
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110%er [9109]
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You hit the problem in two words - "government leaders"
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Mar 13, 2024, 8:39 AM
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I wouldn't even call them "leaders." Just politicians. You said, "They zone property too liberally and are afraid of not being re-elected if they limit development." That's the key - re-election. They equate development with growth, and growth with good things. Growth is not always good. I'm 6'3 tall. If I grow to 225lbs that could be good or bad. If it's all fat around the belly - bad. If it's all muscle - very good. (sadly it's neither, I'm about 190)
My mom lives in Ft Myers, FL, in one of the few houses on the Caloosahatchee River that's older than 1990. It's a simple but nice 1960s 1-story house with a pool. Very pleasant. Nothing ostentatious. When she passes, the house will likely be bought, demo'd, and a 2-3 story house put up there. I call them "monuments to self," since most of the people who build and buy them only live there a few months out of the year. They sit vacant the rest of the time. It's nuts.
It's not just our state. It's everywhere. Politicians want credit and they want votes. By the time we see the negative effects of it, it's too late and they've moved on so they don't care. They know that if we see development happening then we think "jobs" and "prosperity." Yes. No. Both. Depends.
One thing I love about downtown Greenville is that it's retained the charm of old downtown Greenville and, in my opinion, the new development has helped increase that charm. The Grand Bohemian Hotel sits (sort of) side by side with the good ol' Poinsett Hotel. Both great places in their own ways. The demo of the old, unattractive, Greenville News building and replacement with shopping, entertainment and hospitality was a big plus. I hate how crowded it gets and how hard it is to find parking, but that is local business and money going to local people, by and large. I think it's a prime example of growth done right.
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All-TigerNet [10924]
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Re: You hit the problem in two words - "government leaders"
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Mar 13, 2024, 9:35 AM
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I actually kinda miss the old downtown Greenville from the mid 90's early in it's redevelopment and the sidewalks weren't as crowded and feeling like walking around Disney World like it does now.
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Legend [16733]
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Starter [376]
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
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Mar 13, 2024, 8:43 AM
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Tiger Contractor, I assume you're not a construction contractor. I work for a land planning civil engineering firm. Here's what I see (almost on a daily basis). You cannot turn back the clock any more than you can stop it. The economy is the only thing that even slows down development. Every small town wants to remain small. All the quaint villages do everything they can to remain quaint. But the same reasons that you love an area are the very same reasons people want to move there. The last one in paradise always wants to lock the gate.
The truth is, if you're not growing, you're dying. So what's to be done? It's been my experience in this business that planning boards, city planners, planning offices do everything but plan. They all get their ordinances and restrictions wound so tight that they only accomplish two things. Driving up construction costs and having every house, store, office building, etc. looking exactly the same. It was approved last time, so the same plan is submitted for the next site. Ever wonder why there are so many Dollar Generals and the like? They all have the exact same plan, their cheap and easy to build and you can throw them up just about anywhere. And they do.
Charlotte is actually a good example of development. They formed a plan that was 20 years in the making. And they stuck to it. Downtown Greenville is similar. My issue with planning boards and town councils is that they tend to focus on what their town used to look like or what it currently looks like and spend all their time trying to keep it that way. Absolutely no vision as to what the town will look like 20 years from now.
And since we are going to continue to grow and develop, infrastructure not only has to keep up, but stay ahead of it. It's not just the development in and of itself. It's how do you get in and out? Where are you getting the water you need? What are you doing with the water you don't? I've never met a developer that says "let's just spend millions of dollars and see what happens". They've done their due diligence. The market drives it. Instead of bemoaning these issues, let's plan for it.
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Commissioner [976]
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There is so much development in G'vegas my vision is blocked***
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Mar 13, 2024, 8:49 AM
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Legend [16733]
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
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Mar 13, 2024, 8:51 AM
[ in reply to Re: Over development is about to ruin our state ] |
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Correct, I am no longer building houses. I tried to change my handle in here but Crump would not allow it, not sure why. You mentioned if a city is not growing it is dying. Studies have shown quality of life is higher in towns that are not overrun with growth. Choices need to be made, do you want to have a growing city or a higher quality of life?
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Commissioner [976]
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It's more like if you aren't growing, you're not making $$$$***
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Mar 13, 2024, 8:55 AM
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Legend [16733]
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Re: It's more like if you aren't growing, you're not making $$$$***
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Mar 13, 2024, 8:59 AM
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The old saying fits, you can't buy happiness.
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Starter [376]
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
Mar 13, 2024, 9:16 AM
[ in reply to Re: Over development is about to ruin our state ] |
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Not overrun, but growing nevertheless. So it must be a situation where people live in one place and work in another? Retirement communities and wealthy communities are great. But they usually come with a gate.
There's a way to do it. And a way not to. Columbia is a prime example. It just kept sprawling out. And out. Somewhere along the way somebody decided it's cheaper to build new than to renovate the old. That's why you'll see a store close only to open a new location down the road. Location, Location, Location.
But families aren't just looking for that new house or piece of land. They are looking at school districts first and foremost. And even that is becoming less of an issue. If you can afford it, they'll just put their kids in private schools.
There's a lot of factors here that go beyond the aesthetic. And just how do we legislate that? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Why would a town require I plant 30 trees when I think 10 would look better? Or that 30 trees would be unsustainable as half would probably die?
Some may think development moves way too fast. Not sure where that is because if you walked into our office today wanting to build a small subdivision on land you already own, you would be at BEST a year out (and that would be fast tracked for us to drop everything and work on your project) before you could begin moving dirt. You would be months away from a surveyor even looking at your site. Wetlands dilenation? Soil testing (if you plan on septic). You would spend anywhere from $10k-30K in cold costs and the town or county could still say no.
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All-American [572]
TigerPulse: 84%
Posts: 237
Joined: 11/2/23
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Orange Blooded [4565]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3774
Joined: 5/8/22
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
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Mar 13, 2024, 9:28 AM
[ in reply to Re: Over development is about to ruin our state ] |
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I left Charlotte 3 years ago. Just drove through recently and it’s so congested now you can’t even move around comfortably during the day. If soulless banking town was their vision it has been accomplished.
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Athletic Dir [869]
TigerPulse: 88%
Posts: 1825
Joined: 9/24/01
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I feel in Charlotte that the driving chaos is just getting back to what it was
Mar 13, 2024, 10:19 AM
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in 2019. Maybe it depends on which area you live in, but the flow of traffic of folks into downtown/south end (I lump those together because of the office development) only recently is back to the 8am/5pm flows in and out of town. And I would argue it may not even be back to pre-covid yet.
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Starter [376]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 317
Joined: 2/20/23
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
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Mar 13, 2024, 11:18 AM
[ in reply to Re: Over development is about to ruin our state ] |
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Anyone remember the Mainstreet USA initiative? Our downtowns are dying was the cry. How can we save our downtowns? There are too many abandoned shops and store. There's nothing to do downtown anymore!
Charlotte stepped up. As did Greenville. What they both discovered is that in order to "save" a downtown, you had to have people living downtown. It's not for everyone. But it works. Look back at what Greenville downtown was 30 years ago. Now it's a place people WANT to go to. And spend money. I would hardly call either one "soulless".
Look at the entire GSP area. What would have happened if BMW had not come? There were even cries then about development and how "we gave away the farm" in order to get them here. Once they came and were committed, others followed. Not just as support industries for BMW, but industry of all kinds.
I have a friend that works for an economic development consultant firm. He is busy locating businesses all over SC and NC. I asked him what are you're clients look for? Ground ready sites, a workforce and minimal expenditure in fighting city hall BS.
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Scout Team [163]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 155
Joined: 1/9/02
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
Mar 13, 2024, 9:46 AM
[ in reply to Re: Over development is about to ruin our state ] |
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Nailed it.
Everyone wants a great job, a good home, low taxes, great schools, sturdy roads and bridges, an easy commute, minimal traffic, parks, libraries, recreation, cheap places to shop, friendly neighbors, no crime, and plenty of elbow room. They also want approval on what's built next door or anywhere near them but heaven help if someone tells them what to do with theirs. Most of all, they want someone else to pay for it all.
OP's grandfather likely said the exact same thing.
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CU Guru [1292]
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Joined: 2/6/17
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
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Mar 13, 2024, 8:58 AM
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I live in rock hill now but am moving to York later this year. It has gotten too expensive here
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Orange Blooded [3961]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 8/6/13
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
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Mar 13, 2024, 9:00 PM
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Didn’t read all that but yes we are seeing a major influx of northerners and Californians buy up real estate with cash. It’s going to change the voting here for sure. If we go to a Blue state it’ll be because of the new voters moving in and bringing their politics with them. It’s insane because they are running from the horribly run blue states then won’t change how they vote.
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Letterman [294]
TigerPulse: 71%
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Joined: 10/18/23
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Third world infrastructure
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Mar 13, 2024, 9:01 AM
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for a s-hole state. Always has been this way and it’ll never get better.
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Hall of Famer [24226]
TigerPulse: 94%
Posts: 16434
Joined: 8/6/02
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LOL
Mar 13, 2024, 9:17 AM
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LOL
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Orange Blooded [4306]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 3170
Joined: 11/7/22
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Mayor Knox White of Greenville has a Ukraine flag flying over downtown***
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Mar 13, 2024, 9:08 AM
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Athletic Dir [869]
TigerPulse: 88%
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Joined: 9/24/01
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Awesome. Needs to be highlighted as a focus during this political
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Mar 13, 2024, 10:23 AM
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environment. In a threat devoted to not looking forward, and not planning, it's VERY shortsighted to jump off the financial support for them (and ostensively eastern Europe) to buy our weapons and stave off Putin. Just like this thread is looking back on past mistakes, that would be one too, one that brings authoritarian Russia back to a world power.
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Orange Blooded [4306]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 3170
Joined: 11/7/22
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Silicon Valley and it's cohort of investors are in Greenville since Covid
Mar 13, 2024, 4:03 PM
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that's what the flag being in downtown means to me. It's a sign that the Austin Nashville Atlanta mega money is here to profit off of us
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Walk-On [144]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 135
Joined: 8/23/21
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
Mar 13, 2024, 9:10 AM
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My street is very good. My neighbors and I would pay for nothing less. It's amazing how consent and ownership makes for a better neighborhood. What do you truly consent to, not some amorphous blob of words like 'social contract?' You sign a contract to get a cell phone, yet you never even question how you consented to a bunch of people who arbitrarily and at will take a huge portion of your production.
You shouldn't expect more from a system like that.
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Commissioner [928]
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
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Mar 13, 2024, 9:11 AM
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I have been traveling extensively across all corners of the country for over 35 years. EVERYONE, EVERYWHERE feels the exact same way. Construction is booming wherever you go. It is called legal migration, it has always been this way, my guess is that your parents felt the same. As the population increases, so does this phenomenon. It is NOT regional. Only one answer...less people or more available land. Can you imagine what it will look like 50 years from now?
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Starter [376]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2/20/23
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
Mar 13, 2024, 9:18 AM
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That's exactly what I want more people to do. Imagine what it would look like 50 years from now.
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Commissioner [928]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 531
Joined: 12/4/21
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
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Mar 13, 2024, 9:25 AM
[ in reply to Re: Over development is about to ruin our state ] |
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My wife cringes every time I say this but...Covid failed us. We needed it to wipe out a billion people. Not saying I would want myself or my family to be one of them but you get my drift. Take a look at a population map that shows exponential growth. The number of years for global population to add a billion people continues to shrink exponentially.
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110%er [9109]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 9/3/03
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Thanos? That you?
Mar 13, 2024, 10:06 AM
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Standout [306]
TigerPulse: 98%
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Joined: 8/20/18
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They did a great job
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Mar 13, 2024, 9:14 AM
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Saving the upstate after NAFTA when the mills were all closed or closing by bringing in large employers like BMW & Michelin. Same for North Charleston with Volvo and Boeing more recently. SC leaders have been great at attracting large employers which is one of their key responsibilities.
HOWEVER, they absolutely S*CK at planning and development. Most of our “leaders” associate that with government spending which can only mean higher taxes to them, they just kicked the can down the road and ignored it.
Then when the growth took place for these new employers they weren’t ready, there were more jobs than places to live so it spurred the need for massive overnight development that they had no plan for and left them with no choice but to start rubber stamping everything. And now not only are there ugly, poorly zoned, poorly spaced buildings everywhere, but the infrastructure supporting them is woefully outdated and undersized.
The legislature actually had a good bill a few years ago to raise the gas tax a few cents (still lower than NC/GA) and offset it for residents by lowering state income tax. This would essentially pass the cost to people vacationing and transiting our state exclusively. The the additional funds would be for road and infrastructure improvements to address some of the issues above. However Ronald McDonald can’t do math McMaster vetoed it because “i DonT wAnT tO raiSe tAxEs!”
Planning boards are public meetings, you can attend them and bring feedback. Heck they aren’t usually hotly contested matchups in elections so if you really care go run for a seat on your local board and have a more direct impact on your community planning
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All-In [30839]
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Joined: 6/22/03
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SC still needs to grow until they are federally independant.
Mar 13, 2024, 9:16 AM
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but no democrats.
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Athletic Dir [869]
TigerPulse: 88%
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Joined: 9/24/01
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SC has a long way to go on that. As recently as '21 it was the 9th most
Mar 13, 2024, 10:27 AM
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federally dependent state….South Carolina receives $4.51 back from the government for every $1 residents pay in federal tax, according to data from the Internal Revenue Service, U.S. Census Bureau, USAspending.gov and Bureau of Labor Statistics.
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All-TigerNet [10936]
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Joined: 10/18/16
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
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Mar 13, 2024, 9:17 AM
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I just saw Greer is looking at building a $60 million sports and event complex and another $40 million on other new projects like a new Fire Station, Training Center for Police and Fire, and Parking Garage.
When they get a 99+% high school graduation rate, get the crime rate down below the national average (Greer has one of the highest crime rates on the U.S. per 1000), and make sure the hungry in Greer are fed, then build a $60 million sports and event center.
The Board actually believes or they are just spewing that they will make the $60 million back in 2 years. I can't believe Greer would even make a statement that they can get back $60 million in 2 years. If the Board approves it, the residents should force a clause that no tax increases for 10 to 15 years. For example, Bon Secours Areana impacts the "community" in Greenville about $9 million per year. No where near that much money goes to the city coffers.
If the Board approves it, the residents should force a clause that there will be no tax increases for 10 to 15 years. Ask the questions, where did or where is the $100 million coming from and what's it going to cost me in 5, 10, or more years from now.
If you didn't know, crap like this doesn't sit well with me.
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Standout [306]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 200
Joined: 8/20/18
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
Mar 13, 2024, 9:24 AM
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Economic impact statements like that for the Bilo Center (forever its name!) are about their community impact, meaning money for hotels, bars, and restaurants from people coming into town for a concert, sporting event, etc.
The city usually indirectly gets some of that back from things like hotel hospitality tax, but the idea isn’t for the city to make the venue a profit center. The reason for the venue is to bring value to the community as a whole, bringing patrons to businesses and supporting jobs for residents at those businesses
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All-TigerNet [10936]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 7968
Joined: 10/18/16
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
Mar 13, 2024, 10:11 AM
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Do you really think Greer will get a community impact of $60 million from a sports and event center in 2 years per their report? Someone is selling a bill of goods.
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Standout [306]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 200
Joined: 8/20/18
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
Mar 13, 2024, 12:50 PM
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No but all government projects aren’t made to pay for themselves, it’s also to create things for community benefit, parks, ball fields, playgrounds, etc. None of those are going to have a payback, if anything they add cost because of maintenance, but they’re an amenity/service provided by the town via tax dollars. I mean that’s the entire point of tax dollars, collectively it goes further. You aren’t going to go buy 1/73755th of an F35 every year and mail it to the Air Force or put up 3 links in a tire swing chain, but that’s what taxes are supposed to be used for (in theory anyways) so we can have greater things as a community than we could afford individually. Now how far removed our tax dollars are removed from that concept is another story entirely
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Standout [306]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 200
Joined: 8/20/18
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
Mar 13, 2024, 9:24 AM
[ in reply to Re: Over development is about to ruin our state ] |
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Economic impact statements like that for the Bilo Center (forever its name!) are about their community impact, meaning money for hotels, bars, and restaurants from people coming into town for a concert, sporting event, etc.
The city usually indirectly gets some of that back from things like hotel hospitality tax, but the idea isn’t for the city to make the venue a profit center. The reason for the venue is to bring value to the community as a whole, bringing patrons to businesses and supporting jobs for residents at those businesses
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All-In [26035]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 7/31/07
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
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Mar 13, 2024, 9:27 AM
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The Ol' South is disappearing rapidly.
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Orange Blooded [4565]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 5/8/22
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
Mar 13, 2024, 9:29 AM
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All great points but just fixed the title to “over development has ruined our state”.
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All-TigerNet [10157]
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Joined: 7/31/04
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
Mar 13, 2024, 9:35 AM
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I agree 100%. That seems to happen everywhere. In W-S, and probably everywhere, once the property is sold to a developer there is no return.
Now we have China buying up property which creates another beast.
I’ve fought this with city boards for decades. An out of touch building goes up and the city/county can tax more.
They don’t seem to care because it isn’t their neighborhood.
But it is a problem!
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CU Guru [1469]
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Joined: 9/28/08
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
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Mar 13, 2024, 9:54 AM
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You should see Tampa. They used to put up 2 story apartment buildings. Now, they are all at least 4 stories. Most are higher. The traffic is awful and the manners of the drivers reflects well from whence they came.
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All-TigerNet [10476]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 6/29/01
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To tell you the truth it seems like everything is going to he--.***
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Mar 13, 2024, 10:25 AM
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110%er [6858]
TigerPulse: 95%
Posts: 6500
Joined: 10/7/07
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The Upstate is nothing but tract homes and strip malls now
Mar 13, 2024, 10:32 AM
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Developers, politicians, and lawyers.....the worst the world has to offer.
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All-In [27193]
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Joined: 10/13/08
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
Mar 13, 2024, 11:22 AM
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I think SCDOT has a LOT of blame in the situation...they're sitting on a HUGE amount of cash and can't get projects tendered out quickly enough. A quick drive to NC or GA demonstrates to me, that the main cause of the traffic issues is in Columbia, not at the local level.
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All-In [25712]
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
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Mar 13, 2024, 11:25 AM
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The culture and the community never benefit from development and growth. I would even say that the average person does not benefit. It leads to inflation that leads to higher prices for everything, esp. ,food, housing, gasoline, and property taxes. It has pretty much destroyed the traditional family as both adults have to work to afford to raise a family and couples are having fewer children as a result. Also less time spent with children.
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Legend [17615]
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Premise for Post
Mar 13, 2024, 12:16 PM
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Tiger Contractor Based on your post, would it be fair to say the completely rebuilt Clemson campus and downtown area have been ruined by Dabo Swinney's success on the football field and the massive growth & development stimulated from this success? It is certainly no longer the university I attended from 1979-1984.
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Orange Blooded [3336]
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Joined: 7/10/11
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
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Mar 13, 2024, 12:37 PM
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Lexington has this problem. It's expanded so much in the last 20 years that it's pushing town limits but doesn't have anything to really show for it outside a few nice restaurants, storage units, cookie cutter homes, auto shops, and endless corporate chains. It's extremely overpopulated as well. There isn't a single time of day where it doesn't take almost an hour to drive through town. Used to be time frames when I was a child where you could easily get through Lexington without an issue. At this point idk why Lexington doesn't have its own mall.
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CU Guru [1798]
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Joined: 10/3/21
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
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Mar 13, 2024, 12:43 PM
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All the city and county leaders see are tax dollars, not how it affects infrastructure
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110%er [6899]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Joined: 7/11/03
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BINGO. Plastic subdivisions as I call them, are popping up on every bit
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Mar 13, 2024, 12:52 PM
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Of green space available. Developers just rape a piece of land and throw up as many cheap crappy built houses as close together as they can get away with. I’m sure these developers are throwing money back to approving officials to push their projects through. Pendleton SC is a good example of a nice community that is being ruined.
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Orange Blooded [2320]
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Re: BINGO. Plastic subdivisions as I call them, are popping up on every bit
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Mar 13, 2024, 1:12 PM
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Think on this! They are building about 2,000 homes south of Huger off Hwy 41. The ones already occupied are complaining that their septic systems are not draining well. Surprise! you bought a hose in the swamp. Wait till another Hugo comes along and all that vinal siding is gone with the wind.
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CU Guru [1207]
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
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Mar 13, 2024, 1:22 PM
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If you have not been to Clemson in a while, you might not recognize it.
Stately trees have been taken down where the Clemson House used to be to
make room for modern day shoe boxes. Clemson used to be a beautiful campus
and still is compared to most, but not like it used to be.
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All-TigerNet [10476]
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Joined: 6/29/01
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Developers are to our state what ESPN is to college football...they are both
Mar 13, 2024, 1:45 PM
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very close to completely ruining them.
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Starter [376]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 317
Joined: 2/20/23
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Re: Over development is about to ruin our state
Mar 13, 2024, 2:06 PM
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A long time ago someone had a vision. A vision to plant some trees, lay out a few roads, some water features, a park and maybe even a zoo. It really looked like crap when it was first built and I'm sure it stood out like a sore thumb. Central Park is still there. Property along Central Park is probably the most expensive in NY. The point being Olmsted had vision. Not many would let anyone do that today. Either due to the expense of the land or that they want it to look pristine NOW.
Do you think the trees you see along the roads of Clemson just happened to be there and they decided to build a college around them? Some may have. But I'm betting they were put there. By someone. On purpose. The other part of that is that trees are living things with a life span. It's difficult to cut them down, but some need to be. There's an old saying that says the best time to plant a tree is 50 years ago. The second best time is today. Nobody thought (50 years ago) to begin replacing those trees. Every town I've been in has that historic area with really beautiful old houses and treelined streets (Myers Park area of Charlotte?). There is a lot about that old town look that everyone seems to love. One of the problems is that we can't build those any longer. Most wouldn't comply with any town's ordinances or regulations. The trees would be too close to the road, the sight triangles would impair vision for oncoming traffic, the sidewalks would probably be too small or not built to modern specs, the trees would conflict with every utility with exception of sewer which is usually run down the middle of the street. Which by the way would be too narrow or the turning radii not large enough for fire trucks....it goes on and on.
I am not anti-development. If anything, I'm anti-kicking the can down the road letting the next council, board, administration deal with it.
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Orange Blooded [3663]
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Joined: 4/12/01
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If it is zoned properly you shouldn't have issues***
Mar 13, 2024, 4:12 PM
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Legend [16439]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14914
Joined: 1/26/99
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Interesting take from someone whose handle is Tiger Contractor
Mar 13, 2024, 5:56 PM
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and who, if I am not mistaken, has said he is a tour operator.
Anyway, as a South Carolina native agree. I finally gave up on Summerville, moved to “little old” Ridgeville, and am now in the process of moving to Table Rock. Only a couple of neighbors, quiet, no traffic, no HOA, and protected on all side by conservation easements and Table Rock State Park. And less than 45 minutes from Clemson.
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Orange Blooded [3673]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2010
Joined: 12/27/18
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they are destroying our state.
1
Mar 13, 2024, 6:24 PM
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its all over the place.
Horry
Spartanburg
Greenville
Charleston
Aiken
Richland
Lexington
York
Lancaster
Berkeley
all of these counties are just exploding with people moving in
terrible!
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