|
Remember when Dabo said that DW4, and TL16,
storage
This topic has been archived - replies are not allowed.
|
Replies: 37
| visibility 1
|
Legend [16252]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12783
Joined: 11/14/09
|
Remember when Dabo said that DW4, and TL16,
Dec 27, 2022, 11:00 AM
|
|
when they signed, were each respectively the most developed and college-ready QB's he had ever recruited? How each of them was ready to immediately come in and compete for the starting spot? After the success of Boyd, the DW hype was music to our ears and a signal to the media world that Clemson was not going anywhere but further up. But was it just hype, or did Dabo truly know exactly where things stood in the process? Same with TL following DW4 and the interim Kelly Bryant season?
Did he ever refer to Cade the same way as those two heading in? That he was the most developed and college-ready QB he had ever seen? Alongside, did he ever refer to DJ that same way?
Was he just blowing smoke up our bums about the prior two? Was he sandbagging his comments about Cade?
Considering his historic accomplishments over this span as HC and our ridiculous consistency throughout, in addition to how each's tenure has played out, is it more likely than not that Dabo might actually have an insight into his players and their capabilities at the time that exceeds what even the most die-hard fan and football junkie might perceive themselves?
Asking for a friend.
Go Tigers.
|
|
|
|
 |
Commissioner [923]
TigerPulse: 64%
Posts: 2101
Joined: 12/30/19
|
DW4 of TL can't be compared to anyone... they were
Dec 27, 2022, 11:03 AM
|
|
generational QB's....and in my opinion, we should have won more NC with them...esp TLaw..... I think only winning 1 with each was a little on the negative side..... but Cade will not be these guys BUT much better than DJ.
DJ was a bust, I do not know why we recruited him to run our offense, our offense is set up for a
MOBILE QB..not a statue......
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13481]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 8920
Joined: 8/30/18
|
Re: DW4 of TL can't be compared to anyone... they were
Dec 27, 2022, 11:53 AM
|
|
I think when the #1 or #2 rated HS QB in the country wants to come to play for you, you don't look the other way. I'm sure what Dabo thought was that they could develop him to fit our scheme but it clearly didn't work out that way.
I just don't think you can fault anyone for wanting him because EVERYONE wanted him coming out of HS. It sucks when a 5* talent doesn't pan out but it happens.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6386]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 3900
Joined: 12/4/18
|
Re: DW4 of TL can't be compared to anyone... they were
Dec 27, 2022, 12:11 PM
|
|
I also think that they were enamored with DJ’s arm strength during camp. We had Ross, Ngata, and Ladson. We were recruiting EJ and Ajou. We had all of these big bodied, vertical threat WRs. It seemed like a natural fit. DJ could just bomb it to all of our deep threat WRs. Ross got injured and the rest never developed though. That made DJ completely ineffective.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16252]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12783
Joined: 11/14/09
|
Re: DW4 of TL can't be compared to anyone... they were
Dec 27, 2022, 1:39 PM
|
|
DJ also clearly possessed those character and team-focused traits that are paramount in our player evaluations. Not once did he ever exhibit even an ounce of selfishness or bad influence on his teammates that I'm aware of over his time here, other than struggling performances on the field sapping some energy out.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6386]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 3900
Joined: 12/4/18
|
Re: DW4 of TL can't be compared to anyone... they were
Dec 27, 2022, 5:16 PM
|
|
I believe a lot of it just comes from DJ having low confidence. It’s just weird seeing someone so talented, hard-working, and well-respected play so poorly. I bet he’s really good in practice. It’s just when those lights turn on, he shrinks. He’s probably trying so hard not to mess up instead of playing freely.
I hope it works out at Oregon State. He’s ultra talented and by all indications, a great teammate.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16252]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12783
Joined: 11/14/09
|
Re: DW4 of TL can't be compared to anyone... they were
Dec 27, 2022, 5:44 PM
|
|
It was also uncanny how his performances were almost an inverse of expectations at each stage of his time here. He was great at ND in 2020 but we also knew no matter what we had a rematch ahead with TL back in the mix to right a potential wrong. Heading into 2021 as a Heisman favorite and great press - he bombed. Once the shine was totally gone mid-season, he improved and helped us keep our 10-win streak alive (with a lot of help from our RB room).
Heading into this season, he was on zero watch lists, and we were all simply waiting for Cade's turn at the wheel. Then it's DW and TL numbers through week 7, with national press taking notice and a Manning Award candidate, then back in the crapper pronto. Following ND, and likely out of the CFP running, he turns in two excellent outings. Back in the CFP mix then heading into the SCar game - BOMB.
It was uncanny. Pure Lucy holding the football stuff. Never seen anything like that here before.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Asst Coach [707]
TigerPulse: 77%
Posts: 1265
Joined: 11/25/22
|
Re: DW4 of TL can't be compared to anyone... they were
Dec 28, 2022, 4:35 PM
|
|
To be clear, he never put up elite numbers. Trevor and Deshaun were both top 20 QBs in most passing stats, even though they played only one half of most games. DJ was, at his best, about #60 in the country in stats, even though he played entire games. And if he had 9 great games like you're acting, he wouldn't have finished around #80 in the country. This year, he was definitely improved over last, where he was arguably the worst QB in the country (he was second from the bottom, but had way more talent surrounding him). But he was still really bad.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16252]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12783
Joined: 11/14/09
|
Re: DW4 of TL can't be compared to anyone... they were
Dec 28, 2022, 5:08 PM
|
|
Through the first 7 games this year, DJ's numbers were absolutely on par with DW's and TL's YTD numbers in their respective championship seasons. From %, to TD/INT, to Passing Yards, to Rushing Yards (look them up). I get they're on totally different levels, never said different, but numbers are numbers, and 7-0 is 7-0.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Asst Coach [702]
TigerPulse: 87%
Posts: 795
Joined: 10/29/10
|
Re: DW4 of TL can't be compared to anyone... they were
Dec 28, 2022, 8:33 AM
[ in reply to Re: DW4 of TL can't be compared to anyone... they were ] |
|
I don't buy that. Saying Clemson missed 5-6, 4 and 5 star WRs instead of missing on one 5 star QB is kinda weird to me. What's more probable? To me, the one guy you missed on. I do think it's obvious it compounded, because wobbly balls that don't spiral well are harder to catch. DJ somehow started throwing these wounded ducks, and suddenly our talented WRs produced less and dropped more balls. Some call it not developing, I don't think that's what happened. Ladson maybe buy clearly EJ and some of those guys have great talent.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7987]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 10449
Joined: 11/28/03
|
Re: DW4 of TL can't be compared to anyone... they were
Dec 28, 2022, 8:57 AM
[ in reply to DW4 of TL can't be compared to anyone... they were ] |
|
Your last sentence tells us you do not understand football. DJ was an adequate runner. His issues were between the ears. He could not process info quickly or accurately which is required of any QB regardless of the scheme.
Also, Cade may be better or worse than TL and DW but we don’t know at this point and you certainly don’t know for sure
|
|
|
|
|
|
Varsity [205]
TigerPulse: 75%
Posts: 375
Joined: 2/2/08
|
Re: Remember when Dabo said that DW4, and TL16,
Dec 27, 2022, 11:45 AM
|
|
when they signed, were each respectively the most developed and college-ready QB's he had ever recruited? How each of them was ready to immediately come in and compete for the starting spot? After the success of Boyd, the DW hype was music to our ears and a signal to the media world that Clemson was not going anywhere but further up. But was it just hype, or did Dabo truly know exactly where things stood in the process? Same with TL following DW4 and the interim Kelly Bryant season?
Did he ever refer to Cade the same way as those two heading in? That he was the most developed and college-ready QB he had ever seen? Alongside, did he ever refer to DJ that same way?
Was he just blowing smoke up our bums about the prior two? Was he sandbagging his comments about Cade?
Considering his historic accomplishments over this span as HC and our ridiculous consistency throughout, in addition to how each's tenure has played out, is it more likely than not that Dabo might actually have an insight into his players and their capabilities at the time that exceeds what even the most die-hard fan and football junkie might perceive themselves?
Asking for a friend.
Go Tigers.
What is your point here?? What difference does it make?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16252]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12783
Joined: 11/14/09
|
Re: Remember when Dabo said that DW4, and TL16,
Dec 27, 2022, 12:51 PM
|
|
My point is this.
In Week 3 vs La Tech, Cade came in the 3rd with a very comfortable 28-point lead at his disposal. The perfect opportunity to gain additional live game experience and start turning the corner and putting pressure on DJ at the helm. 7 plays and two failed drives later, sporting a 2/5 5.3 QBR performance, La Tech is suddenly back in the game only 14-down at the 9:30 mark.
The coaches put DJ back in, who settles the team down, and we go on to post two more TD's and finish back up at 28 up. Is everyone who is so certain Cade could have led us to victory versus ND or SCar as equally certain that Cade would have been successful had he stayed in the La Tech game back then, and settled down and finished out as well as DJ did for us?
Cade had an opportunity early season to make a move forward and establish more confidence in the coaches. It didn't work out. A rational person would take that the coaching staff, from that effort, would further determine that Cade just wasn't quite there yet as a freshman, despite their desire to see him turn it on and their confidence in him. From there, DJ put together easily his best stretch as a Tiger, starting with his best game period @ Wake. Then NC State, then @ BC, then @ FSU. And boom we are 7-0 and in total control of the Atlantic division.
Talk about conspiracies and hidden agendas and all this 'obvious' talk of Cade being more deserving at QB over DJ just doesn't hold water, and is actually contrary to exactly what Dabo and the staff had been stating pre-season and into the season. It stinks that he made a rookie mistake right off the bat versus ND. Was it unfair for the coaches to put him in the game there? I mean, we were down 21 and needed a spark. Isn't that what so many on here are absolutely certain would have happened had he come in vs SCar? Success and a spark? Was it too much pressure at ND? Is being in a tight game versus your arch rival not also a high pressure situation?
Many folks seem to want it both ways on here. Dabo and the staff though have been very clear with their message, and consistent with it as far as I can see. Cade looks to have a great game in him and many tools at his disposal to light up scoreboards for us and lead us to championships. Until the UNC game, though, he was 11/20 for 198 yards and a 1/1 TD/INT ratio. Time in the program and further development, as Cade himself noted post game in the ACCCG, is clearly paying off, and the future looks very bright.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [17599]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14152
Joined: 10/24/10
|
IMHO Cade faced the burden of replacing a good QB & good guy
Dec 27, 2022, 3:31 PM
|
|
wildblulou® This is my take. Dabo and players, incl. McFadden and KJ, loved DJ and supported DJ even when he underperformed. They let Cade know all year he was the rook, and DJ was their man and Cade needed to wait his turn. Cade, as a Christian and a gentleman, accepted this and was willing to wait his turn.
Unless the UNC game was a mirage, and IMHO it is not, Dabo and the seniors were correct that DJ is a stand-up guy, a good man, and a quiet leader. They were wrong in not allowing Cade more reps by mid-year when Cade had gained confidence and surpassed DJ. It's all spilt milk now. The common denominator is DJ and Cade are good men. Cade just has skill sets (speed, quickness, mobility, poise, ability to audible, accuracy) to perform at a higher level than DJ.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1043]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 2080
Joined: 4/7/22
|
Re: IMHO Cade faced the burden of replacing a good QB & good guy
Dec 27, 2022, 3:36 PM
|
|
I didn't see anything that surpassed Uiagalelei until the North Carolina game.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2371]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 1997
Joined: 11/7/14
|
Take another look at the throw he made on the 2-point
Dec 27, 2022, 4:40 PM
|
|
conversion against Syracuse. That throw won the ballgame, plain and simple. And DJ could not have made that throw... he couldn't have used his legs to get into position to make it.
Other than that, I agree with you. The UNCheat game was Cade's "coming out party." I hope it continues in Miami.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6386]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 3900
Joined: 12/4/18
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [9028]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 7378
Joined: 4/9/11
|
Re: Remember when Dabo said that DW4, and TL16,
Dec 27, 2022, 7:07 PM
[ in reply to Re: Remember when Dabo said that DW4, and TL16, ] |
|
Was Cade really given a realistic chance. Didn't he say he didn't practice with the 1's all season? How could he expect to be successful against ND?
That was a way for Dabo to say that he wasn't ready. You didn't get him ready. You didn't let him practice with the 1's because you were trying to coddle DJ.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16252]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12783
Joined: 11/14/09
|
Re: Remember when Dabo said that DW4, and TL16,
Dec 28, 2022, 11:32 AM
|
|
LOL. Who are these 1 WR's you speak of that Cade missed out taking reps with? It's not like he didn't have ample opportunities during passing drills to connect with everyone all season. Was there really much difference though between our 1's and 2's in the WR room this season?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Asst Coach [702]
TigerPulse: 87%
Posts: 795
Joined: 10/29/10
|
Re: Remember when Dabo said that DW4, and TL16,
Dec 27, 2022, 11:47 AM
|
|
It's impossible for anyone, including Dabo, Saban, Riley, whoever, as good as they may be, to be right and make perfect decisions all the time. Tom Brady throws bad balls sometimes, Woods makes the wrong choice on laying up or going for it, etc. Dabo is an excellent coach, and I'm grateful for him. That being said, at some point he was wrong. Maybe Cade was ready for Notre Dame. You know who I know wasn't ready? DJ. But by SC game Dabo was wrong. I think he just plays it a lot slower than we would like. He also probably knows the writing on the wall, but loyalty is his Achilles heel and I think he cares so much about the kids he overstates whats inevitable. (Like DJ is awesome and it was everyone else)
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13481]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 8920
Joined: 8/30/18
|
Re: Remember when Dabo said that DW4, and TL16,
Dec 27, 2022, 11:56 AM
|
|
I agree. I don't think we will ever know what was going on behind the scenes with the Dabo/DJ relationship.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13481]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 8920
Joined: 8/30/18
|
Re: Remember when Dabo said that DW4, and TL16,
Dec 27, 2022, 11:57 AM
|
|
Unless we read it in Dabo's autobiography someday...
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1589]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 556
Joined: 11/26/18
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [64589]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 88994
Joined: 3/27/01
|
Not only were DW4 and TL16 both generational-type QB's...
Dec 27, 2022, 12:15 PM
|
|
they were surrounded by other generational-type talent.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Head Coach [760]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 454
Joined: 9/30/05
|
Re: Not only were DW4 and TL16 both generational-type QB's...
Dec 27, 2022, 12:23 PM
|
|
It is way too early to say whether Klubnik can or cannot achieve the level of Watson or Lawrence. Klubnik has a chance to develop into the absolute best QB to ever play at Clemson. He may win multiple National Championships in his time at Clemson. He may in fact win a Heisman. Only time will tell.
Klubnik will also be a different player and get better an better as time passes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16252]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12783
Joined: 11/14/09
|
Re: Not only were DW4 and TL16 both generational-type QB's...
Dec 27, 2022, 12:56 PM
|
|
Totally agree. The biggest difference I was pointing out in this thread was simply about being ready for this level straight out of high school, as Dabo had laid out for DW and TL, instead of needing a little more development time to get up to speed, which has been Cade's case. Once up to speed, though, and through the wall - all bets are off IMO.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [17599]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14152
Joined: 10/24/10
|
Good post Wildblulou +1
Dec 27, 2022, 3:42 PM
|
|
Agree Cade was not as ready on Day 1. And Dabo had told him he was the #2, and there was not a competition. TL16 was not built that way. Dabo could tell TL16 that he was the #2, but that would not register with TL16. Not out of arrogance, but out of accuracy, TL16 knew he was the best. DW4 with Dabo built this modern era of Tiger football. Much of the high level of talent that played with TL16 came in due to DW4's successes. Cade will make his mistakes just like DW4 and TL16 did on a few days, but he will take more many more risks than DJ and has some very good days ahead of him. Go Tigers!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [806]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 794
Joined: 7/30/12
|
Re: Good post Wildblulou +1
Dec 27, 2022, 4:16 PM
|
|
The only reason , in my opinion, that Deshaun and Trevor might have been a little more ready on day one than Cade is they had been essentially running the Clemson offense for two or more years in high school. The plays and terminology take a little learning curve. I promise you Cade is a tremendous competitor. He beat out a senior while in the tenth grade at a 6A Texas high school. He would never stop competing for the starting job. I do not think Coach Swinney would tell him not to compete to wait his turn. If so. we have a big problem. No coach would do that.
Message was edited by: prefab®
Message was edited by: prefab®
Message was edited by: prefab®
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [806]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 794
Joined: 7/30/12
|
Re: Not only were DW4 and TL16 both generational-type QB's...
Dec 27, 2022, 3:58 PM
[ in reply to Re: Not only were DW4 and TL16 both generational-type QB's... ] |
|
DJ started for two years and could not run an RPO as smooth as Cade. Simple handoffs were not as smooth as Cade. Long passes had no where near the accuracy or touch as Cade. DJ never set a good tempo or rythm to the offense as Cade does. The total Clemson offense could not be run with DJ because of his lack of athletecism and passing accuracy and smooth ball handling. The book was open almost immediately when Cade entered the conference title game. I could go on, but enough has been said before. Why a change was not made earlier or at least in the SC game we will never know. It certainly could not have been because he was not ready whatever ready means. He certainly was more ready than DJ athelitically, mechanically, composure, reading and progressions.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [24545]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 15114
Joined: 2/13/15
|
DW4 and TL16 were Generational talents...
Dec 27, 2022, 6:50 PM
|
|
Cade was just a notch below..
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16252]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12783
Joined: 11/14/09
|
Cade could well be another generational talent like
Dec 27, 2022, 7:45 PM
|
|
those two. Kids just age physically and mentally a little differently around this time in their lives. Cade has an aura about him and confidence that is through the roof. He is a stone cold winner against the toughest out there. You can tell he loves to compete and will go the distance to come out on top. And he drips team in everything he has said and done here at Clemson. His Ga Tech zip and Syracuse 2-pointer were reminiscent of the DW4 lasers we saw in that opening Georgia game. There is Wow in Cade.
I feel like the message we've been getting from Dabo and the coaches since he's arrived, pretty regularly, reflects all of the above. Talent, drive, and ability through the roof, but they saw more adjustment period in him ahead in adapting to our offense scheme while filling in some physically and getting the college pace down than his championship predecessors, so it might take a little longer to grab the reins, but once he does, he's gonna shine.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [806]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 794
Joined: 7/30/12
|
Re: Cade could well be another generational talent like
Dec 28, 2022, 8:52 AM
|
|
Adapt to college pace, DJ had our college offense pace down to a crawl. Cade every time he was put in the game from first to last jumps off the ground and is staring at the sideline like get the play in give me a play lets go. There is no resonable explanation that I can think of except Big Dave would have DJ quit the team and get ready to transfer if his position was threatened. That would have left Clemson with no backup rest of the season. So what excuse are you going to use for not playing Cade more if you are the coach? We are not playing Cade more because he is not ready, or we are not playing Cade more because Big Dave will probably make DJ quit the team?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16252]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12783
Joined: 11/14/09
|
Re: Cade could well be another generational talent like
Dec 28, 2022, 11:51 AM
|
|
Was mostly referring to the speed of play. Cade showed major chops in game 1, but wasn't consistent enough unfortunately for the coaches to trust him. Entering the UNC game he was a 55% passer with 1 TD and 1 INT. He did not do well at all vs La Tech in Week 3 despite his great athleticism and had to get benched or we could have conceivably lost that game if we didn't start moving the ball again with DJ. Does Cade start over DJ @ Wake? vs NC State? @ BC? @ FSU? Do you remember we started 7-0?
All this Big Dave and secret agreement stuff and threats is a fairy tale. DJ kept doing enough to keep the job, Cade did not do enough with his opportunities to take it. It's. that. freaking. simple.
I wish Cade had done better vs La Tech. Wish he had done better in his ND appearance instead of the rookie pick he threw. DJ played excellent vs Louisville and Miami after to get us to 10-1 heading into SCar. DJ led us to a lead entering the 4th vs SCar, and helped keep us in it late with an opportunity to win despite other problems we were having.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [806]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 794
Joined: 7/30/12
|
Re: Cade could well be another generational talent like
Dec 28, 2022, 3:51 PM
|
|
DJ quitting the team if Cade took his job is no fairytail. It just happened. Did you not notice. Clemson has no backup for the bowl game. If Cade goes out in first half Clemson loses the game. If Cade was named starter game five and gets serious injury Clemson loses next six. If Cade is named starter game nine and and gets serious injury Clemson loses next three. Whenever Cade would have taken over for DJ then DJ is gone.
Message was edited by: prefab®
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [806]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 794
Joined: 7/30/12
|
Re: Cade could well be another generational talent like
Dec 28, 2022, 4:07 PM
|
|
I am not saying Big Dave and coach Swinney had some kind of deal. I do not believe that at all. I am merely saying if Cade took DJ's job Big Dave would convince DJ that it would be best for him to go ahead and leave the team to let other teams know he was available. I believe that and I believe that the Clemson staff believed that was a real possibility. The safest way to protect the season was to have DJ the starter and Cade the backup rather than have Cade the starter with no backup.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [806]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 794
Joined: 7/30/12
|
Re: Cade could well be another generational talent like
Dec 28, 2022, 4:20 PM
|
|
This would explain why it was thought to be best for the program to stick with DJ for the season if at all possible and not make a change,
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16252]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12783
Joined: 11/14/09
|
He left the team when the portal opportunity came about
Dec 28, 2022, 5:37 PM
[ in reply to Re: Cade could well be another generational talent like ] |
|
at season's end. Totally different circumstances than you're painting. However, it looks like you're pretty set in stone with your thoughts on him and his family and the whole matter so no sense in dragging it out any further.
As far as backups go, we've got our transfer portal guy Hunter Johnson waiting in the wings should something happen to Cade. I would imagine he has been getting all of the 2nd team reps since DJ's departure.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [93668]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95419
Joined: 12/25/09
|
I'll go along with anything said by anyone defending Dabo.
Dec 28, 2022, 4:01 PM
|
|
If the devil tried to recruit him to coach in hades I'd say Dabo is the best he could do. I know he's end up hiring Steve Spurrier after Dabo turned him down. Saban and Smart couldn't afford the paycut.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 37
| visibility 1
|
|
|
|
50
