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Ultimate Tiger [35067]
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What is the real defense of eliminating federal income tax on tips and O/T?...
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May 22, 2025, 8:09 AM
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I'm all for lowering taxes, but tips and O/T should be treated like any other income, IMO. It seems like a clear pandering tactic and I don't believe it to be fair.
Frankly, folks that make most of the income via tips are likely not reporting all of their income already.
It will be interesting to see what the unintended consequences of this change will be. I don't know what they'll be, but there will surely be some.
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Ring of Honor [22300]
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Wonder if individuals in non service sectors will declare tips as income***
May 22, 2025, 8:15 AM
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Clemson Conqueror [11586]
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Re: Wonder if individuals in non service sectors will declare tips as income***
May 22, 2025, 9:09 AM
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I tip the cooks (and of course the waitress) at most of the ‘low end’ restaurants.
Cooks are not ‘service’ workers.
Should they be denied the privilege of getting to legally deduct taxes on tips?
Also, and I haven’t paid attention to this, is the ‘no taxes on tips’ proposal limited to the ‘service sector’ (however that is defined)?
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Game Changer [1992]
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Tiger Titan [48841]
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Either way, following the same stupidity as the Bush admin
May 22, 2025, 8:17 AM
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Cut taxes and increase spending. The results are as expected.
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110%er [3899]
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Re: What is the real defense of eliminating federal income tax on tips and O/T?...
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May 22, 2025, 8:19 AM
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I’m all for cutting taxes on overtime. More money in my pocket
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Paw Master [16258]
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Votes
May 22, 2025, 8:22 AM
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Overtime will be milked even more than it is already. The incentive to get a job done in a timely fashion and not looking at the clock will be lessened even more.
Who wants to be salaried when you can get O/T and now not pay taxes on that income as well?
Income is income, tax it.
Social Security which I will begin taking next year at age 70 should also be taxed in order to keep the program semi solvent for a few more years. This move will put the entire program in jeopardy sooner.
This was a move for votes.
Not to get into a what about deal, but Biden tried the same BS on student debt to get votes.
The no tax on tips proposal certainly had to help Trump in Nevada.
This was pandering and none of it is a good idea.
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110%er [3899]
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Re: Votes
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May 22, 2025, 8:32 AM
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How do you milk overtime? Most plants make you get overtime approved by a supervisor or manager. I’m a maintenance technician and I have to get my OT approved and document what jobs I did during that overtime.
Most overtime workers are lower middle class Americans. How is cutting taxes on a few hours of overtime going to make a difference? Seriously. 90+% of taxes are paid by the rich.
It wouldn’t make a difference.
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Ultimate Tiger [37859]
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IT AINT FAIR!!!!***
May 22, 2025, 8:39 AM
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Ultimate Tiger [35067]
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O/T milking is a big issue at most places...
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May 22, 2025, 8:52 AM
[ in reply to Re: Votes ] |
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sure it often has to be approved, but working slower during regular hours in order to get O/T is a tough thing to fight in certain situations. It's certainly an area of focus in our business (manufacturing). We had developed a culture of almost an automatic approval of O/T coming out of COVID, just because the focus was strictly on top line revenue and efficiency had to essentially be ignored. Our business was growing so fast, that a lot of the O/T was justified to keep output increasing.
Last year, we started pushing back on a lot of the O/T and uncovered all kinds of way it was getting milked.
To your final point, I think it does make a difference, both in terms of $'s and fairness.
Should we also not pay taxes on bonuses?
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Clemson Conqueror [11586]
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Re: O/T milking is a big issue at most places...
May 22, 2025, 9:21 AM
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Bonus payments are not typically applied in proportion to time-on-the-clock. They are paid to eligible employees who (1) hit or exceed their KPIs and (2) in accordance with how well the company exceeded it’s performance expectations.
Well managed companies have objectives for managers to be attentive to, speak out against, and punish slack workers who don’t work hard enough. Whether the worker in question is simply lazy or milking the clock to get overtime, the line manager / operations manager should have a specific set of KPIs that are used to affix a quantative value to how well he keeps the workers doing their work.
Nothing pertaining to ‘no taxes in overtime’ gives the company an excuse for line managers / operations managers not doing their jobs.
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Ultimate Tiger [35067]
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Really? Tell me more...
May 22, 2025, 11:20 AM
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I didn't know any of that!
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Paw Master [16258]
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Re: Votes
May 22, 2025, 8:55 AM
[ in reply to Re: Votes ] |
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It's pretty easy. When working 8 minutes over gets you 15 minutes of OT pay and 7 minutes gets you none or working 16 minutes over gets you 30 minutes of OT and 14 minutes gets you zilch, the incentive to slow walk to the time clock is real.
I watched it working in a paper mill many years ago as a college kid and I had to motivate my staff to get out the door when I was working as a physician.
Most of my staff were honest people, but it's not that hard to fudge things a bit to get some OT.
I don't agree that most OT workers are lower middle class, although I could be wrong. The papermakers were very well compensated and none of my staff was lower middle class.
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110%er [3899]
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Re: Votes
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May 22, 2025, 9:10 AM
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The majority of America is lower/middle class. I make 35/hr and I consider myself lower/middle class. Times have changed. Maybe you didn’t notice that housing prices have doubled in the past 4 years.
I work in a huge factory and the only ones who aren’t scraping by are engineers and upper management. Well, the people who bought houses before prices went insane are doing ok. It also helps to have 2 incomes. A house that cost 200k in 2020 can easily go for 450k now. I’m in Anderson, SC. I’m telling you normal middle class people can’t afford a 450k house now.
I’m all for tax cuts on blue collar workers. Hard times right now.
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Ring of Honor [22300]
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Housing affordability is an issue for many.***
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May 22, 2025, 9:24 AM
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110%er [3899]
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Re: Housing affordability is an issue for many.***
May 22, 2025, 9:38 AM
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My question is, how do we fix it? I’ve thought maybe we put restrictions or laws on price gouging renters. Being a capitalist society/free market , that wouldn’t work.
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Ultimate Tiger [35067]
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Housing is an issue, but I live in Anderson too and housing has not doubled...
May 22, 2025, 11:31 AM
[ in reply to Re: Votes ] |
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since 2020.
I moved here in 2018 and my house value is up roughly 60%. It's still a lot, but not double.
Quick zillow search shows about 100 houses on the market in Anderson County listed $200k-$250k.
$250k in Anderson will get you a decent 3BR/1800-2000sqft home if you have a little flexibility on where to live.
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110%er [3899]
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Re: Housing is an issue, but I live in Anderson too and housing has not doubled...
May 22, 2025, 11:53 AM
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My house cost 170k in 2023. With the interests rates at the time my monthly payment is 1,340. That was with 20k down and an 800 credit score. A 250k house would require a 40k down payment and a monthly payment of around 2k. The average South Carolinian can’t afford that without 2 incomes. Hell, the average American couldn’t ever come up with 40 grand to put down on a house.
My mom bout her house in 2019 for 215k. It’s now estimated on Zillow at over 400k.
I’m sure it varies but there are plenty of examples of homes doubling in value since 2020. 60% is a huge increase over a 5 year period.
In these days especially, it is beneficial to be married and have 2 incomes. Unfortunately, that’s not my situation.
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Clemson Icon [26570]
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Re: What is the real defense of eliminating federal income tax on tips and O/T?...
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May 22, 2025, 8:48 AM
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I guess partially because waiters get taxes on tops even if they are stiffed. There is an expected certain amount that is already taken out. On the other hand, after that amount, the people working on topsmlie anyway. Here is an example of someone who strictly works on tips and gets no hourly in most places, makes between 35k and 100k, and it's all on the honor system, is the golf caddie. I am not talking PGA tour. I am talking resort caddie and often private club. Basically, giving no taxes on tips isn't really giving anything at all. Those tips generally aren't claimed anyway.
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Clemson Conqueror [11586]
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Re: What is the real defense of eliminating federal income tax on tips and O/T?...
May 22, 2025, 9:29 AM
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After tens of thousands of new IRS agents were hired under the Biden Handlers Administration, there was a real possibility that workers whose earnings were known to typically include a large percentage of tip income would be scrutinized for tip income reporting.
As you noted, No Taxes on Tips probably has minimal actual impact on tax revenues moving forward since, historically, they were significantly under-reported.
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Orange Elite [5441]
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The Biden hires were to target complex business returns
May 22, 2025, 9:37 AM
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why do you guys just constantly lie about everything?
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Clemson Conqueror [11586]
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Re: The Biden hires were to target complex business returns
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May 22, 2025, 10:13 AM
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You don’t know what you’re talking about.
Biden Handlers Admin claims that hiring big numbers of new IRS agents is to go after companies with complex business returns.
Just like they named a whopping spend thrift bill as the Inflation Reduction Act, whereas (as some Dems later admitted) the bill was actually a Green New Deal type of bill.
Just like they said that a ‘Comprehensuve Border Protection’ bill that allowed 5000 illegal immigrants to enter America every day was the only way that illegal immigration could be controlled.
Just like they said incoming Biden Handlers Admin, back in early 2021, promised to be the most transparent WH in history.
Lie after lie after lie. Yet, you believe that the Biden WH had no intention of going after restaurant workers / golf caddies / etc people who made much of their income on tips?
SMH.
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Paw Master [17287]
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Someone that pays tax on 40hrs a week has paid their debt to society,
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May 22, 2025, 9:56 AM
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anything over that, should be tax free.
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Ultimate Tiger [35067]
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Ok...so I'm salaried and work about 60 hrs a week on avg...
May 22, 2025, 11:32 AM
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should I get a tax reduction?
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Paw Master [17287]
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Nope***
May 22, 2025, 11:37 AM
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Ultimate Tiger [35067]
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I agree, but your logic doesn't hold up***
May 22, 2025, 12:05 PM
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Paw Master [17287]
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You should work less hours, be more efficient.***
May 22, 2025, 12:07 PM
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Ultimate Tiger [35067]
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LOL...yeah right***
May 22, 2025, 12:09 PM
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Paw Master [16690]
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Offensive Star [337]
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Re: What is the real defense of eliminating federal income tax on tips and O/T?...
May 22, 2025, 10:10 AM
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Nobody should be getting a tax cut when we are $36T+ in debt and running $1.5T-$2T deficits every year. The bill is gonna come due and it will not end well for anyone.
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Ring of Honor [23832]
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The U.S. tax system is a joke, and the punchline is you
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May 22, 2025, 10:44 AM
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While you're getting taxed on every paycheck and worrying about rent, six rich guys together have over a trillion dollars. That is more than entire states. But hey, don't forget to report that $600 payment on Venmo or the IRS might come knocking.
The top half of one percent owns about 20 percent of all the wealth in the country. A tiny slice of people owns more than most of the country combined. And somehow we are supposed to believe the system is working fine.
We now have more inequality than we did during the Robber Baron era. Back then at least they wore top hats and built railroads. Today’s billionaires build rockets and avoid taxes.
If you miss a tax payment, you get penalties. If they do, they get a better accountant. The system is built to protect them, not help you. And until something changes, this isn’t a tax code. It’s a scam.
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Clemson Icon [26570]
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Re: The U.S. tax system is a joke, and the punchline is you
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May 22, 2025, 10:46 AM
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Yeah, but they need more money and need more tax cuts. We also need to cut benefits for the poor and middle class to make sure the ultra wealthy have more money.
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Ring of Honor [23832]
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Thats the real issue.
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May 22, 2025, 10:48 AM
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Citizen's United made it way easier to corrupt politicians. Heck, they are opening giving 400 million dollar gifts to our president and buying his meme coin.
The politicians are bought by the rich and of course the tax bill is going to be in their favor.
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Ultimate Tiger [35067]
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Any tax discussion where you mix income and wealth is misleading...
May 22, 2025, 11:34 AM
[ in reply to The U.S. tax system is a joke, and the punchline is you ] |
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We have an income tax system. I don't think someone should be "penalized" for growing wealth/managing their money well and then have someone come along and say the "wealth" should be taxed too.
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Offensive Star [337]
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Re: The U.S. tax system is a joke, and the punchline is you
May 22, 2025, 12:10 PM
[ in reply to The U.S. tax system is a joke, and the punchline is you ] |
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You seem to have wealth envy, like anyone that has done better than you envy. I certainly do not begrudge those wealthy folks their situational all. I certainly do not want someone like you deciding just who has too much and needs to be clipped.
Once you get over wealth versus taxation we may be able to talk, until then you are conflating 2 separate issues. I have already told you once, maybe more, you could take the entire net worth of those at the top and only run the country for 6 years, no problem for someone like you though as you will start googling the next rung down and demonizing them.
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Ring of Honor [23832]
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The OT tax exemptions aren't as good as they sound.
May 22, 2025, 10:30 AM
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Only the extra amount you earn from overtime, not your regular hourly rate, is tax exempt. For example, if you normally make 20 dollars an hour and work 10 hours of overtime, your total overtime pay would be 300 dollars. Of that, 200 dollars is your regular pay and is still taxed. Only the additional 100 dollars is tax exempt.
A big nothing, like anything good they claim to do for working families.
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Ultimate Tiger [35067]
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My question is why? Why should "how" the money is earned make any...
May 22, 2025, 11:36 AM
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difference?
Salary, wages, tips, O/T, bonus, etc...should all be taxed as income earned from working.
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Offensive Star [337]
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Re: My question is why? Why should "how" the money is earned make any...
May 22, 2025, 12:11 PM
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Exactly, no different classifications of what is "earned" as wages. It is all the same .
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Ring of Honor [23832]
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Re: My question is why? Why should "how" the money is earned make any...
May 22, 2025, 12:18 PM
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My point was that it isn't much of a tax break.
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Offensive Star [337]
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Re: My question is why? Why should "how" the money is earned make any...
May 22, 2025, 12:22 PM
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My point is stock options, bonus, etc should all be taxed as income under the statutes. To include tips and OT. Funny thing on the tips, it is only going to lower their income credits when it comes time to file for SS thus lowering what benefit they recieve.
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Clemson Conqueror [11371]
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Yes - it is/was pandering. I think folks who earn tips or are paid by the hour
May 22, 2025, 11:56 AM
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tend to be middle-class or lower income earners. So, I guess I'm OK with finding a way to put extra bucks in their pockets without taking it (directly) out of other tax-payer's pockets. I'm even more OK with it after reading PBT's description of how OT pay will be taxed.
Aside: most people tip on their credit cards, so tip income is being reported more now than it used to.
I wonder how much taxes are currently paid on tip income? How many billions are we talking about here?
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