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Orange Blooded [2669]
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What happened to the alpha bank story?
Apr 18, 2022, 11:26 AM
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Adam schiff def told me trump would get popped for this....
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Lot o points [155977]
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Trump is a barely cogent buffoon,
Apr 18, 2022, 11:37 AM
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Who also is somehow clever enough to launder money for the Russian mob without being caught while being the most investigated man on the North American continent. It’s real idiot-savant stuff.
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: Trump is a barely cogent buffoon,
Apr 18, 2022, 12:03 PM
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Well, we know Russian oligarchs moved as much as $80 billion out of Russia via something called the "Global Laundromat." Deutsche Bank played a huge role in that.
There's just an insane amount of smoke here, no matter how many times you stubbornly go "oh, there's nothing here"...the problem is that global international finance is incredibly - often deliberately - complex and opaque and requires a ton of cooperation and consistency in enforcement to achieve, and until this recent unpleasantness in Ukraine the International community has just not gotten its sh!t together dealing with these guys.
Everybody knows Trump owes somebody $1.3 billion. The stuff that went through Deutsche Bank, we still don't know who owns the debt on the other end of that, though Trump himself was blatantly open in the early 2000's about the fact that he had a blank check from his new Russian sources.
So, yeah, I'm sure it was all clean. Even though we still don't know who those people are, they're all getting their assets seized right and left, and oh, yeah, Trump sued all the way to the Supreme Court to avoid disclosing any financial information whatsoever. Sounds totally above-board, there.
https://www.npr.org/2020/02/19/807191309/dark-towers-exposes-chaos-and-corruption-at-the-bank-that-holds-trump-s-secrets
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Lot o points [155977]
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Re: Trump is a barely cogent buffoon,
Apr 18, 2022, 12:04 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: Trump is a barely cogent buffoon,
Apr 18, 2022, 12:31 PM
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Karen, you threw the Mother Of All Circular Self-Confirming News Corp sources at me yesterday when you linked to a Fox News article citing a New York Post writer who had written the very book called The Laptop From Hell, and somehow didn't remark upon the fact that it was a News Corp media outlet citing a News Corp writer who wrote a book about a News Corp story.
Then you linked to a rando Politico article that had nothing whatsoever to do with either Joe Biden personally or the Hunter Biden story itself (other than the company had represented Burisma, which I guess in your Karen Logic means something)...I'm not sure you really understood it. Or you just hoped I wouldn't read it.
At which point my eyes glazed, I decided once again you were a Karen and a nincompoop, and I tuned out of the conversation.
So go away. Seriously. The adults are talking. You are assuredly not one.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Okay Quozzelov!
Apr 18, 2022, 1:23 PM
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CU Medallion [60043]
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Re: Trump is a barely cogent buffoon,
Apr 18, 2022, 4:56 PM
[ in reply to Re: Trump is a barely cogent buffoon, ] |
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Smoke like Benghazi? Smoke like Hunters laptop? Smoke like Hillary lawyers playing for her? Smoke like Hillary’s e-mail server?
Like that type of smoke, but no fire? Just clarifying.
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Hall of Famer [24815]
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Laundering money for Russian mobsters goes FAR beyond
Apr 18, 2022, 12:07 PM
[ in reply to Trump is a barely cogent buffoon, ] |
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T-Rump... Too much investigation there would lead to major investment banks and 'others'...
As a narrative regarding T-Rump, probably some truth there. However, expanding it would lead to opening the door on some Big Boys...
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: Laundering money for Russian mobsters goes FAR beyond
Apr 18, 2022, 12:18 PM
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Dude, he IS being investigated. By everyone.
The problem is, money laundering occurs between the launderer and the person laundering it for him, and oh, yeah, the banking institution at the heart of it. To roll up a money laundering network you either need to expose the launderer, the cleaner, and you need to then compel some sort of cooperation from the bank.
Nobody's got any of that. Do you think the oligarchs who own Trump's debt will ever willingly identify whatever shell companies they're hiding behind?
We know how hard a nut Trump Org's been to crack. The big problem there is, the decision-making loop is minute: Trump, Ivanka and Donald...and oh, yeah, the CFO, Allen Weisselberg, who the Manhattan DA's office has leaned all over and thrown a bazillion ticky-tack tax fraud claims at to try to get him to flip. He hasn't...and the investigation on Trump Org has at best "stalled", according to numerous results coming out. Until they get somebody to flip - and provide documents! - proving intent (which you need for a criminal case) is apparently really hard in complex financial cases. It's not enough to prove Trump Org is dirty, everybody knows it's dirty. You have to also prove Donald personally knew it was dirty, and intended to do the crime for which the Org is being charged even knowing it was illegal.
That's a high bar. Especially when it's been such a massive slog even getting any of his financial documents. The Supreme Court only denied those appeals a couple months back...after years of legal delays.
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Lot o points [155977]
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Again, this fails the 30k foot test.
Apr 18, 2022, 12:30 PM
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The guy paid clowns like Avenatti and Guiliani to represent him for some of his most sensitive dealings. He valued ring-kissing (under the guise of “loyalty”) over competence in instances too numerous to count.
You really, really think that he was able to overcome his every instinct and assemble a crack team of criminal CPAs and JDs in this one instance to form a money laundering organization too clever for the planet’s finest forensic accounting minds to crack?
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: Again, this fails the 30k foot test.
Apr 18, 2022, 12:43 PM
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The massive road-block they're apparently running into is what a mom-and-pop shop Trump Org is, for how much money it moves. It's such a closed loop. Like I said, it's Trump, Ivanka, and Don Junior...and Weisselberg. That's apparently it.
To crack it you'd need one of them - and they don't have any of them, they've taken a mighty swing at Weisselberg and so far he hasn't budged, and obviously the kids and Trump themselves are never going to talk willingly - or you'd need somebody from the oligarch end...and they're never going to get at that. And Trump Org also doesn't use E-mails...like, at all.
Trump isn't any sort of genius, sure...but Weisselberg, apparently, is very sharp. And until this year neither Congress nor anyone investigating Trump didn't even have Trump's financial records, and there certainly wasn't any sort of push to expose the oligarchs' money laundering networks.
So how exactly were they going to just lay hands on this evidence to prosecute him? Keep in mind for his entire presidency he ducked behind executive privilege.
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Lot o points [155977]
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This is where my stance is at a disadvantage.
Apr 18, 2022, 12:50 PM
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If he gets caught for money laundering, you’re clearly right and I’m clearly wrong.
If he never gets tried, much less convicted for money laundering, we will both forevermore say we’re right.
If he runs again in 2022 (and I seriously hope that isn’t the case) and the plethora of powerful people against him still haven’t drummed up an effective case for this by then, at some point we have to say that it’s because there isn’t an effective case to make.
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Hall of Famer [24815]
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'24... but I agree.***
Apr 18, 2022, 12:54 PM
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Lot o points [155977]
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Thanks. Brain fart.***
Apr 18, 2022, 12:54 PM
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Thanks. Brain fart.***
Apr 18, 2022, 4:28 PM
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: This is where my stance is at a disadvantage.
Apr 18, 2022, 1:01 PM
[ in reply to This is where my stance is at a disadvantage. ] |
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There is that, but hopefully we're both still around in five years or so where we can discuss this.
Mind, I'm not 100% I'm right. But we know Trump was hard-up for cash in the late 90's and had four bankruptcies under his belt. We know the oligarchs had divided up post-Soviet Russia between them and were hauling cash out of the country by the truckload, and needed places to stash it. We know the biggest dodges for money launderers are overpriced real-estate flips, and all-cash businesses that are designed to lose money...you know, like hotels, casinos, golf courses. We know Deutsche Bank was one of the prime places they went to move their ill-gotten cash.
Given all that, if Trump somehow wasn't laundering, it'd be personally shocking to me. I just cannot believe they gave him their money because they somehow believed he was somehow a good business partner when nobody in America would deal with him anymore. Especially how hard Trump has fought the revelation and disclosure of any of his financial dealings, and how even Allen Weisselberg seems to be willing to go to jail for 10+ years rather than squawk...at age 74. Almost like he's afraid of something a whole lot more than jail.
At some point, stuff always comes out, one way or another. At some point in the future, I feel, we're going to know.
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Lot o points [155977]
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The last line sums it up well.
Apr 18, 2022, 1:11 PM
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You feel we WILL know, and I feel like we already WOULD know.
I think he’s done shady, likely illegal, stuff along life’s journey. I just don’t think he has the game to pull off what you’re suggesting without numerous sloppy breadcrumbs being left behind.
At some point he would have fired/insulted/screwed someone involved to the point they would have been happy to screw him back. He also did the Russian economy zero favors during his presidency—it tanked while he was in office, largely stemming from our increased oil production. He likely would have cost the very people you’re suggesting pull the strings many hundreds of millions of dollars that I can’t see them letting happen.
But yes, if you’re right, I think we will know by 2024. It’s largely a moot point for those in power who are against him by then.
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: The last line sums it up well.
Apr 18, 2022, 1:31 PM
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If there's a good argument to be made it's probably exactly what you're saying, honestly. "He doesn't have the game for that."
The thing is, though, if you take a look, Trump's got the exact mentality of a mob boss, and they aren't smart so much as they keep it simple and are very, very stubborn. You keep your loop - the people who have something - as small as possible, use family whenever possible. Check. You do not cooperate with authorities, on anything. You demand absolute loyalty from everyone under you, make it the single most important attribute, far beyond even basic competence. Again, check. And you do not talk. Period. Ever. To anyone. Again, he's check marks across the board there. And you use word of mouth as much as possible, do not use E-mails or anything electronic that can be traced back to you, and you destroy evidence as fast as you create it. Even the White House historians had to make a special division that taped Trump's shredded documents back together, and on a couple occasions he apparently ate notes rather than shred them.
Trump may not be smart, but he's savvy, and I do think he got his base MO ground into the DNA by his own father and by his mentor Roy Cohn.
Again, it's just hard to believe anyone with that mentality was keeping it clean, or that the oligarchs who were looking to offload so much of their money would have passed on somebody who fit the profile of what they needed to move it so perfectly.
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Hall of Famer [24815]
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: You missed the MAIN point of my argument... Forget T-Rump.
Apr 18, 2022, 1:07 PM
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I'm actually not certain what you are saying, sorry. I read what you wrote a couple times and am still not clear.
Could you elucidate? Who shut what down?
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Hall of Famer [24815]
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Hall of Famer [20542]
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Re: Start with Russia Row in the City of London... It's not
Apr 18, 2022, 4:19 PM
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Okay, getting it now. Sorry. Got some threads tangled.
Heck Yeah it happens here. Actually I've heard, oddly, South Dakota more than Wall Street, of all places, has turned into one of the money-laundering capitals of the world. So yeah, people definitely do not look too closely at the bona fides of investment capital when it comes streaming on in.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/04/pandora-papers-reveal-south-dakotas-role-as-367bn-tax-haven
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Hall of Famer [24815]
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There ya go... Read some things about SD last year...***
Apr 18, 2022, 6:03 PM
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All-TigerNet [13160]
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All-TigerNet [13605]
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Re: Trump is a barely cogent buffoon,
Apr 18, 2022, 2:08 PM
[ in reply to Trump is a barely cogent buffoon, ] |
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Trump has always stuck his foot in his mouth but somehow has managed to never put his foot in his mouth about all of the illegal activities he is involved in.
I find that strange.
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All-In [34600]
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Like everything else, it aint true***
Apr 18, 2022, 12:46 PM
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Hall of Famer [24815]
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110%er [9668]
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"An agency believed to be the CIA" -the heck does that mean?***
Apr 18, 2022, 2:47 PM
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Hall of Famer [24815]
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You might ask the prosecutor... "Agency-2" isn't shown.***
Apr 18, 2022, 3:12 PM
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Replies: 29
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