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Aficionado [182]
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I never was a Tommy Bowden fan but
Jun 11, 2014, 10:15 PM
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I also didn't dislike him either. I always felt like Tommy Bowden was a great manager and his success depended on the assistants around him to a degree . With the right ones, he was great.
I do think he deserves a great deal of appreciation on the foundation that he laid here. He also served as a terrific example for Dabo in my opinion. Not that he did everything right but he certainly came from great coaching pedigree and I'm sure that helped sculpt Dabo into some of what he has become. And on his way out, he was wise enough to fully recognize Dabo's potential.
Tommy Bowden certainly earned the money he took with him if Dabo continues to further the program like he has.
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Legend [19610]
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The one great thing Tommy Bowden did was bring to light how
Jun 11, 2014, 10:20 PM
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we had fallen behind with our facilities, mobilized the alumni, and got the WEZ started.
He also brought a sharp departure from the style of offense that we had gotten used to when he brought in Rich Rod. I think Dabo learned under Tommy that the spread needed to be incorporated into most college offenses, leading to Chad Morris as OC.
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Orange Blooded [4142]
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Re: I never was a Tommy Bowden fan but
Jun 11, 2014, 10:24 PM
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Signed Mrs. Bobby Bowden
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All-TigerNet [13360]
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Re: I never was a Tommy Bowden fan but
Jun 11, 2014, 10:26 PM
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Not sure how to take this. I do think TB was a great man. I also think Dabo is a better coach. As far as linking Swinneys success to his tutelage under TB, I'm not sure I agree. I feel sure DS learned a lot in his time under TB, but I think Swinney is a product of Alabama, namely Gene Stallings. I think DS still uses Stallings as one of his main mentors in coaching.
As far as TB being worth the money we had to pay him, IMO he's only worth it because he hired a good rep to construct a favorable contract and we as a University decided it was worth paying the penalty to get rid of him.
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All-In [26514]
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Got blowed out too much ... also thought Clemson
Jun 11, 2014, 10:42 PM
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was never or would never be on par with Diddy's FSU
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Orange Blooded [2397]
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Re: I never was a Tommy Bowden fan but
Jun 11, 2014, 10:47 PM
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I agree with that assertion. Also consider that rather than getting out of Dodge when asked to leave, he made a critical recommendation that set us on the right path to success. He left us in great hands. We may not have reached these heights while he was coach, but we do owe some of our current success to him. I will always credit him with that.
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Standout [343]
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Re: I never was a Tommy Bowden fan but
Jun 11, 2014, 10:52 PM
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I can't remember exactly when it was that Mike O'Cain said that "expectations are simply too high at Clemson." Maybe before Bowden brought him back, only to let him go again. But I remember that quote as particularly stinging. How far we have come.
Bowden definitely left the program in much better shape than he found it, though never quite attaining the promise of that undefeated season at Tulane. If Bowden hadn't been so loyal to Rob Spence, he would very likely still be head coach, and we would likely be a consistent top 25 program, but not elite.
I too am grateful for Bowden's insistence on TDP's hiring of Dabo. I think that is the only way we would have. It is Dabo's enthusiasm in recruiting and unselfishness in hiring elite assistants that has put us in this position. After all of the bad luck this program experienced following Ford's dismissal, the football gods have at long last smiled on us.
So yes, I agree, Bowden may have done more for us in that recommendation than anything else.
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Orange Blooded [3257]
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Should he be in our HOF?***
Jun 11, 2014, 10:55 PM
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Legend [15530]
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Re: Should he be in our HOF?***
Jun 12, 2014, 8:11 AM
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Not in my opinion!
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CU Guru [1400]
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No
Jun 12, 2014, 2:52 PM
[ in reply to Should he be in our HOF?*** ] |
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He didn't win any championships.
Nobody is calling for Red Parker to be in the HOF, and Bowden essentially did the same thing Parker did.
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110%er [6937]
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Re: I liked him for the simple reason that he could beat
Jun 11, 2014, 11:07 PM
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S. Carolina. When a Clemson fan or coach concedes winning to that bunch they should leave.
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110%er [6219]
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This again?
Jun 11, 2014, 11:11 PM
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Why?
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110%er [6937]
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Re:Yes, I don't want us to lose sight that we have lost 5
Jun 12, 2014, 8:14 AM
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straight or that this is, ANYWAY, acceptable.
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CU Medallion [51552]
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Orange Blooded [3881]
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like the other 100 years***
Jun 12, 2014, 7:31 AM
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All-In [39020]
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They're not better than us now, they're just in our heads.
Jun 13, 2014, 2:16 AM
[ in reply to But USuC really sucked then*** ] |
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We choke against them. Dropped passes, blown assignments, turnovers, scared playcalling (trick plays we don't need sends a bad message)...that all goes to the top.
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CU Guru [1400]
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I have always felt
Jun 11, 2014, 11:10 PM
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that as time and distance allow perspective people will look more favorably on Bowden's tenure here, and they will start to look at the Bowden era as an important building block much like how most now look at Red Parker's tenure as where the return to glory started. Bowden didn't win us any championships, but without a doubt he removed the malaise that had taken over the program in the post-Danny era.
Bowden had his many faults without a doubt, and he didn't take us where we wanted to go but I believe we should appreciate how far he did bring us because without his efforts we wouldn't have had the success we have had the past few years and wouldn't have the potential to take it higher in the years to come.
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Heisman Winner [111717]
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Re: I never was a Tommy Bowden fan but
Jun 11, 2014, 11:11 PM
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he was exactly what we needed at the time. In '98 Clemson seriously struggled to find an identity on offense as West was attempting to transition away from a run heavy offense into more of a passing team to keep up with the top programs in the league. Bowden had exactly what we needed at the time, and revitalised the program almost immediately.
Although we would have been better served to get rid of him in 2005, it is really hard to argue against where we ultimately ended up. The man was a class act and great for our program. The legacy he left us in Dabo will likely rival Ford's Legacy here, provided Dabo sticks with us for the long haul.
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Standout [344]
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With all due respect, when were we great under TB?***
Jun 11, 2014, 11:35 PM
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***
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All-In [25393]
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The problem at Clemson for the past 30 years has been
Jun 12, 2014, 7:39 AM
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that all coaches since Ford have been held to his success, and that's because folks who were students and adults when we won the NC want another.
When Coach Bowden was hired, many thought Daddy's success would transfer to the son, an oft faulty perception found in a number of activities, including business, government, the military, etc.
Tommy Bowden was a good man, a decent man and a good coach. He just wasn't a great coach, and that was bound to lead to his eventual downfall at Clemson. The longer he remained amid widespread fan unrest, the more dour and moody he appeared, and that contributed to his problems.
Regardless, I never disliked the man, still don't and have absolutely no reason to demonize or denigrate him.
He did the best he could with the resources at hand and with his talents for coaching, the latter of which is the key to understanding why he eventually left.
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All-In [38429]
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Re: The problem at Clemson for the past 30 years has been
Jun 12, 2014, 8:00 AM
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Tommy Bowden owned USuCjr.
That is all I remember or care to comment on his time at Clemson .
Went 7-2 against the Chickens.
The End.
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All-In [25393]
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Good morning, my Friend.....You're correct: he did, a
Jun 12, 2014, 8:12 AM
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fact I'm certain Coach Swinney knows.
Swinney, also, understands that Steve Spurrier is a coach of another color, so to speak, than those with whom the Gamecocks or the Tigers were familiar.
What he has to do is first convince his staff and team that they can defeat the Gamecocks. Then, he has to out-Spurrier, Spurrier. Thus far, that hasn't been easy.
This year will be no different, but it is doable!
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All-TigerNet [14233]
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Re: Good morning, my Friend.....You're correct: he did, a
Jun 12, 2014, 8:21 AM
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I hate this talk. Spurrier lost to UGA last year. The same UGA team we beat the week before. He also lost to a horrible Tennessee team. We win this year going away. 63-24
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All-In [25393]
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Good morning, TW....I hate it, also, because over the past
Jun 12, 2014, 8:32 AM
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50 years, I've hated every loss to the Gamecocks.
Your post demonstrates that Spurrier is beatable. Since I approach every season anew, I believe we can and will beat him this year. Hopefully, that'll be the same mindset of Dabo and Company with one key addendum: they will win it!
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Starter [382]
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Re: The problem at Clemson for the past 30 years has been
Jun 12, 2014, 8:48 AM
[ in reply to Re: The problem at Clemson for the past 30 years has been ] |
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I've said it before but here goes again. I think it's funny that some people still use the same old argument that "at least Bowden beat Carolina each year". The same people still say that taking Reggie out on the last drive cost us the game (which it probably did). Make up your mind on which bandwagon you're on.
If Bowden was still here, the streak would probably be at 6. We would 2 less division championships and 1 less ACC championship. We would still be winning a average of 7 games instead of 10. The reason Tommy beat Carolina every year is because they didn't have the talent they currently have (not even close). Like it or not, Carolina has a good program now - that's why we've lost 5 in a row. We've got to step it up and beat them as they are now, not as they were in the past.
I know that this converstation would end if we started winning again but comparing Bowden and Swinney is unfair at this point based on the South Carolin game. Using that argument, why not say Hatfield and West were better. West lost twice to them in his five years, while Hatfield only lost once in four years.
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All-In [38429]
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Re: The problem at Clemson for the past 30 years has been
Jun 12, 2014, 9:04 AM
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I certainly understand that the Bowden beaten Dirtpeckers were nowhere near as good as the Spurrier lead Coots.
That having been established , each CU era has its hurdles and though Dabo has gotten us into the NC discussion with consistency in recruiting and on field results , he has had poor results against the gruntstains in Columbia.
TB beat them like a drum. That was the only thing I take away from this post ...Tommy Bowden beat the Coots like a Clemson coach should .
Lets go Dabo , take it back in the Valley in 2014 !
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Scout Team [161]
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Re: I never was a Tommy Bowden fan but
Jun 12, 2014, 8:39 AM
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My first year at Clemson was Tommy's arrival. I remember watching him ride by in a convertible at the First Friday parade and wondering, is this the guy that will bring us back to prominence? I had high hopes, but turned out I was wrong. I've always been of the opinion that you have to give a coach time to get their recruits in and build the program they have envisioned. It's painful, as we all know, because it takes time, and 4-5 years down the road you realize you've hired the wrong guy (we realized much longer down the road).
I agree 100% that TB did lay part of the foundation that has led to Dabo's success today. He pointed out our facilities needing upgrading, got the alumni excited again, had some big wins against some top teams, and consistently beat USCjr. Don't we all owe Tommy for the 63-17 W? I for one will never forget that night as I was in Columbia and reveled in the humiliation the fans were feeling. However, I never felt like he was a good game day coach and never really "got" Clemson. Clemson is a special place and only certain coaches will embrace what is between those hills. I never felt that TB really got Clemson, and it reflected when he was recruiting and hiring coaches. I don't remember the exact quote he made, but it was something to the effect of us being 1 big win away from being back. Baloney.
Dabo gets Clemson and you can tell he loves and is passionate about our program and getting us back to the promised land. The players and assistants love him because he's a good man and leader, and the end of the day, if we lose, he takes accountability and doesn't point fingers. I also think he realizes he's not perfect and has been making positive changes during his coaching tenure.
Mark my word, he will bring us a NC within the next 5-10 years. Go Tigers!
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All-In [26322]
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Nice of you to drop by Tommy. Now....
Jun 12, 2014, 8:41 AM
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bye.
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Enthusiast [131]
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He was hard to like...
Jun 12, 2014, 9:47 AM
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Did not have an ounce of the charisma that Dabo has. He did however turn the ship for Clemson and changed the trajectory and got us moving in the right direction since the 1990s. He got us our first big wins over FSU and Miami. He started to again recruit studs out of FLA, etc. He started the campaign and the momentum to the facility upgrades. He brought in the right kind of player and coach and a culture of faith. He handed a program over much better than the one he received (he left the log-pile higher than he found it).
His personality was awful. He was hard to like. He deserves more credit from the Clemson Faithful than he gets. Dabo has that "it" star quality (much like Ford) that Bowden simply did not have.
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CU Guru [1400]
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I disagree
Jun 12, 2014, 1:58 PM
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Bowden was easy to like if you ever had a one on one conversation with him, and very charismatic. Spend five minutes talking to him about football and you quickly see why he was such a good recruiter. He was personable, witty, and I enjoyed every conversation I had with him.
He just wasn't very good speaking in front of the media, IMO because they made him uncomfortable. Go back and watch any press conference....good ones after wins and bad ones after losses....and watch his mannerisms, etc. and you'll see what I am talking about.
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Enthusiast [131]
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Re: I disagree
Jun 12, 2014, 9:55 PM
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I never met him - just from a media perspective I think he came off - not as likeable - always seemed sterile or not as passionate about Clemson - it felt like a business relationship only
I get the opposite out of Dabo and think he bleeds orange and is a media/ fan favorite
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CU Guru [1400]
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Again
Jun 13, 2014, 1:52 AM
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I have felt for some time that Bowden was really uncomfortable dealing with the media. Even in the less formal on the field interviews you could see he pretty much would rather be doing anything except that interview.
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Orange Blooded [2418]
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Re: I never was a Tommy Bowden fan but
Jun 12, 2014, 2:52 PM
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He left the program in better shape than he found it. The time for change was right in 2008, but Coach Bowden certainly did some good things here.
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Orange Blooded [2218]
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not making changes to his staff is why he is not here***
Jun 12, 2014, 10:16 PM
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Associate AD [839]
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Re: I never was a Tommy Bowden fan but
Jun 12, 2014, 10:28 PM
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No, he was terrible.
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Freshman [0]
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Re: I never was a Tommy Bowden fan but
Jun 13, 2014, 3:28 AM
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i respect your opinion but i think he was right at that time..
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