|
Replies: 29
| visibility 1312
|
Webmaster [∞]
TigerPulse: 100%
∞
Posts: 46680
Joined: 2012
|
TNET: Top OL target describes "crazy environment" of Death Valley
Oct 6, 2021, 8:00 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
CU Guru [1251]
TigerPulse: 90%
27
|
Herein Lies The Problem
Oct 6, 2021, 8:05 AM
|
|
"Top Offensive Line Target" and is rated as a 3 star.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [78787]
TigerPulse: 100%
62
Posts: 120305
Joined: 1998
|
Re: Herein Lies The Problem
Oct 6, 2021, 8:11 AM
|
|
yeah the attitude in you post is a big problem. I'm good with him if the staff wants him and he wants us
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1251]
TigerPulse: 90%
27
|
Re: Herein Lies The Problem
Oct 6, 2021, 12:08 PM
|
|
Best Is The Standard!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [78787]
TigerPulse: 100%
62
Posts: 120305
Joined: 1998
|
Re: Herein Lies The Problem
Oct 6, 2021, 12:11 PM
|
|
89% isnt best pal
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1251]
TigerPulse: 90%
27
|
Re: Herein Lies The Problem
Oct 6, 2021, 12:15 PM
|
|
Explain.
|
|
|
|
|
|
TigerNet Immortal [173637]
TigerPulse: 100%
69
Posts: 29156
Joined: 2012
|
He has two years to grow. Maybe Dabo and company see
Oct 6, 2021, 12:13 PM
[ in reply to Re: Herein Lies The Problem ] |
|
a lot of potential in this young man.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [9905]
TigerPulse: 100%
44
|
Re: He has two years to grow. Maybe Dabo and company see
Oct 6, 2021, 1:18 PM
|
|
3 stars. Go look back over the last 10-12 years at some of the Tigers 3 stars. Get back to me then.
|
|
|
|
|
|
TigerNet Immortal [173637]
TigerPulse: 100%
69
Posts: 29156
Joined: 2012
|
Re: He has two years to grow. Maybe Dabo and company see
Oct 6, 2021, 1:23 PM
|
|
you mean players like Grady and Beasley?
Message was edited by: MyfavOrange®
|
|
|
|
|
|
Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
11
|
Re: He has two years to grow. Maybe Dabo and company see
Oct 6, 2021, 2:23 PM
|
|
I think the issue Creole is talking about is the label “Top Target”. Our program and coaches are awesome at developing and evaluating talent, especially under recruited guys— the story Dabo tells about offer Grady is a great example of how it’s been done.
But the fact our top targets are not 5 * guys, at a position we know we have a blind spot as a coaching staff, it’s laughable and kind of embarrassing. We always hear about def scouting, Dabo has to know how bad we are at evaluating this position. A 5 star can certainly be a bust but they are rated that way for a reason and the analytics show they have a higher hit rate of not being a bust. All great coaches have blind spots, look at Belicheck and the patriots, Bills blind spot it WRs… it’s not a slight, you just have to be self aware, the Pats have said they won’t draft WRs and just sign free agents now be a they are so bad at it… anyway rant over, frustrating to see is all.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [6940]
TigerPulse: 100%
41
|
|
|
|
|
|
Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
11
|
Re: He has two years to grow. Maybe Dabo and company see
Oct 6, 2021, 5:05 PM
|
|
You have to remember those were the exceptions not the rules. And none of them were our “top targets” at their respective positions. Hunter wasn’t even offered a scholarship. We do as good or better than any school finding hidden gems, but it was getting 5 stars like Sammy Watkins, Mitch Hyatt, Trevor Lawrence that took our program to the next levels from previous teams. You build your foundation with 5 stars. When you have national footprints like us and Bama, your “top target” at any position should never be a 3 star, or frankly even a 4 star. Like Dabo always say, we got to dream big and that means going after the big fish no matter how much of a shot we think we have or don’t have.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [9905]
TigerPulse: 100%
44
|
Re: He has two years to grow. Maybe Dabo and company see
Oct 6, 2021, 6:52 PM
[ in reply to Re: He has two years to grow. Maybe Dabo and company see ] |
|
you mean players like Grady and Beasley?
Message was edited by: MyfavOrange®
Exactly MFO. Plenty others too including Pace and Skalski currently.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Elite [5243]
TigerPulse: 100%
38
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4745]
TigerPulse: 100%
37
|
The 2023 recruits will be evaluated again next spring/summer
Oct 6, 2021, 9:15 AM
[ in reply to Herein Lies The Problem ] |
|
Many of the 4 star recruits by the spring/summer of 2023 were 3 stars the previous fall.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Immortal [67596]
TigerPulse: 100%
60
Posts: 24772
Joined: 2011
|
Re: Herein Lies The Problem
Oct 6, 2021, 9:44 AM
[ in reply to Herein Lies The Problem ] |
|
How many stars did our current OL have coming out of high school?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clemson Conqueror [12054]
TigerPulse: 100%
46
Posts: 15035
Joined: 2001
|
Starting OL from Boston College game - 4 4*'s and a 3*
Oct 6, 2021, 11:07 AM
|
|
Jordan McFadden LT 3* RSJr,
Paul Tchio LG 4* So
Matt Bockhorst C 4* RSSr
Will Putnam RG 4* Jr
Walker Parks RT 4* So
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2188]
TigerPulse: 97%
32
|
Re: Herein Lies The Problem
Oct 6, 2021, 10:16 AM
[ in reply to Herein Lies The Problem ] |
|
You don't know beans about recruiting. First of all, it's super early and he's already a grown ### man. Then, he will go to camps and these kiss up services will move him up if he is interested in Alabama or the other SEC schools and down if he's not. Also, you've never seen him play and it really doesn't matter if you have because judging an OL is the hardest of all the positions. He's going up against far inferior players in high school and it's hard to know if he will develop.
I've been closely following recruiting since 1974 and I mean nerd like with my own top 100 lists and so forth and I would have put my lists up against anyone's as far as accuracy and they all miss on some.
3 star, 4 star, 5 star, there are plenty of examples of 3 star and no stars making it to the NFL and 5 stars that flop. Whining about rankings is not the most fruitful of the use of your time especially since you know little about the kid. Even then, some flop.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ring of Honor [21659]
TigerPulse: 100%
53
Posts: 12507
Joined: 2002
|
Re: Herein Lies The Problem
Oct 6, 2021, 10:18 AM
[ in reply to Herein Lies The Problem ] |
|
Dude, watch the film. The kid isn't a 3. He's a legit 6'5", 315...already, and he carries it well. I think he's a OG or a RT in college because he's not a pure dancer and I didn't see him kick much but he carries that weight really well, he's athletic and can pull and get to the second level. He's got a long, LONG wingspan, plays with a nice solid base, didn't look like he was lunging much (on what was admittedly a highlight reel) like a lot of high school players do...you wanna look at the totality of his game film to really determine that, but the kid obviously knows what he's supposed to do, anyhow. Only real critique I'd make of him is that he could use some more nasty and needs to finish his blocks better and bury the guy ahead of him...lot of times in those highlight reels you'd see him blow a guy off the ball, move him...and then release him later on. (No, no, no, put that guy in the dirt, young man! I know you've got it in you.)
Also interesting that he's shown there with Thomas Austin. A not so-subtle Preview of Coming Attractions, I suspect. Time overdue, there. Like I said, I'd prefer a Vance Vice from VT (we could call him "VVV" or "Triple V", think of the possibilities) or an NFL guy but I can deal with Austin; I really liked his line at Georgia State.
Now...can we please run some power next year, and break their will a bit and impose ourselves before we start dancing and walling off?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3932]
TigerPulse: 99%
35
|
Re: Herein Lies The Problem
Oct 6, 2021, 10:34 AM
|
|
That is so right quozzel. Miller is an extremely good prospect, probably 6'5 not 6'6 like his recruiting profile states. Agree on Austin as well, I made a post a while back saying that the feeling was this was Caldwell's last year. and Austin would be the natural replacement. Back to Miller, I think he plays guard in college, and this is the bigger type guard that the Bama's of the world have landed. Our OL recruiting has been significantly improved the last two cycles, and it looks good in 23 as well.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1251]
TigerPulse: 90%
27
|
May I Suggest You
Oct 6, 2021, 12:14 PM
[ in reply to Re: Herein Lies The Problem ] |
|
revisit our exchange prior to the 2020 season where your position was that the Clemson OL was going to be great. How'd that work out for us.
P.S. If you can provide convincing evidence that Mr. Austin has taken over complete control of OL recruiting, then I'll be happy to revaluate my position on the young man sometime in the future.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Immortal [62825]
TigerPulse: 100%
60
Posts: 62842
Joined: 2007
|
Re: Herein Lies The Problem
Oct 6, 2021, 12:06 PM
[ in reply to Herein Lies The Problem ] |
|
Grady Jarrett says Hello coming to Clemson as a 3 star recruit. I know that Grady was a defensive player, but he was undersize with none of what college coaches were looking for on the D line, but Grady had the heart of a 6'4" 300lb D-lineman, and he played like he was that size also. You can't tell what a guy is going to by the star rating in every instance. If he is a top O Line target, and only a 3 star recruit, this means that our coaches see something worth recruiting, and that's enough for me bc, they have more than not proven us wrong with players that wasn't highly rated...
https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2011/grady-jarrett-30463
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2188]
TigerPulse: 97%
32
|
Re: Herein Lies The Problem
Oct 6, 2021, 4:27 PM
|
|
Guys like Grady Jarrett will always be my favorites. Hunter Renfrow and other guys that aren't highly touted and play their ##### off are fun to watch. Taking nothing away from the Bresee's and Trevor Lawrence's because I love them, too. But, a nobody type kid that nobody wanted are generally my favorites.
Back in the old days of recruiting fandom, info was hard to get. The Texas Longhorns signed a kid named Kiki DeAyala and I didn't go ballistic, but I was very harsh with the kid. Actually, he was about a year younger than I was at the time.
He was a Cuban-American and went on to record 22 sacks as a senior in 1982 and he's still one of my all time favorite college players along with Tedy Bruschi at Arizona with their Desert Swarm defense.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [6693]
TigerPulse: 100%
41
|
Re: Herein Lies The Problem
Oct 7, 2021, 6:28 PM
[ in reply to Herein Lies The Problem ] |
|
Not cool to post that. By the way, most of the top OL in the NFL weren't 4 or 5 stars out of HS. Just sayin.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [6693]
TigerPulse: 100%
41
|
Re: Herein Lies The Problem
Oct 7, 2021, 6:30 PM
[ in reply to Herein Lies The Problem ] |
|
I posted in the wrong spot before. Anyway, most of the top OL in the NFL weren't 4 or 5 star.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [6865]
TigerPulse: 100%
41
|
Maybe coaches see something fans cannot.
Oct 6, 2021, 9:06 AM
|
|
Like what a player can be, and is not yet. I remember we had a defensive tackle, Gains Adams was a two-star by some services, and look what became of him with some good coaching.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [5668]
TigerPulse: 100%
39
|
MOR......
Oct 6, 2021, 12:24 PM
|
|
This is a very good prospect...could be a very good "rated" one before its all said and done. I like this take if he commits to us. True 5* kids on OL are very rare (hard to project, development isn't always a given). However, the last few recruiting cycles we have signed more highly ranked guys (Leigh, Parks, etc...). Once we can show NFL placement success, this trend should only get better.
My only issue is I would like to see sign MORE OL (like this kid) overall. Need to "tweak" a bit (Roster Management) given the one-way street (portal) out of CLEM. Quality depth is too low under 85 imo. Sign a bit more, and occasionally use portal if needed. Agree with Dabo, HS is the way to go. Want to offer/sign a bit more kids like this....rather than defaulting to a true 2* type that most likely won't be the kind of kid needed to win at the level we all want.
Back to the subject....I'd take kids like this all day long.........JMO
|
|
|
|
|
|
Trainer [47]
TigerPulse: 93%
5
|
All Players Need to be Evaluated
Oct 6, 2021, 1:09 PM
|
|
Star rating does not mean the player will be good in college it just means they are supposed to be good or great. I think offering kids just based off of star rating and not off of seeing them play in person doesn't make total sense or sound judgement call. The players also have to have heart, drive, and the will to achieve and make a team better as a whole whether they are a starter or backup. We also have to know if the player will fit our team and standards we have in place. We have had some very productive walk-on players recently so star rating is not what make the players great but it does look better from a fan point of view, and gives hope we will be much better at certain positions we just need to be better selective in the players we need to make sure we get the best that are available to us.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [8935]
TigerPulse: 100%
43
Posts: 11815
Joined: 2011
|
Re: TNET: Top OL target describes "crazy environment" of Death Valley
Oct 6, 2021, 2:10 PM
|
|
Seems like a great young man who understands the Clemson culture that Dabo has created. Hope he becomes a Clemson Tiger!
Go TIGERS!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2391]
TigerPulse: 100%
32
|
Re: TNET: Top OL target describes "crazy environment" of Death Valley
Oct 6, 2021, 5:58 PM
|
|
I hope we get him.
Did anyone notice his comment that Clemson's offence looks just like what his high school runs?...
Message was edited by: TwoNats®
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 29
| visibility 1312
|
|
|
50
