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Orange Blooded [3135]
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We have a problem in the High School Leagues
May 26, 2022, 6:33 AM
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Just like NIL in college, these private schools are ruining high school sports. Their ability to recruit, offer scholarships, attract talent with facilities is giving them an unfair advantage over public schools.
I must say that they aren’t cheating but it’s like a public school going up against IMG… just not fair.
C&P From Facebook:
Controversial SPORTS post
Disclaimer, I have many friends that are coaches and parents at these schools so I am just stating the facts for discussion. Thanks Don for the amazing research.
Class A
Football - Southside Christian
Volleyball - Southside Christian
Cross Country - Southside Christian
Girls Basketball - Military Magnet
Boys Basketball - Calhoun Co.
Soccer - Southside Christian
Baseball - Southside Christian
Softball - tbd
Girls Track - Whale Branch Early College
Class AA
Football- Gray
Boys BB - Gray
Girls BB - Christ Church
Tennis - Phillip Simmons
Cross County- Greer middle coll
Boys Soccer - Christ Church
Girls Soccer- st joseph's
Volleyball- st joseph's
Golf - Christ church
Baseball- Gray vs St Joseph's in semi today
Softball- Gray in upperstate
Track tbd
Class AAA
Baseball - Oceanside Collegiate
Girls soccer - Oceanside Collegiate
Volleyball - Oceanside Collegiate
Girls Tennis - Oceanside Collegiate
Cross Country - Bishop England
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CU Medallion [52144]
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Re: We have a problem in the High School Leagues
May 26, 2022, 7:01 AM
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Not a real shocker.....money has run every thing in the free world for a long time
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Walk-On [129]
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Re: We have a problem in the High School Leagues
May 26, 2022, 7:59 AM
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Not a real shocker.....money has run every thing in the free world for a long time
Not a shocker. And will continue to grow. Look at the recently published report on public school enrollment. They are plummeting nationally. Parents are either home schooling or enrolling in private schools. Not just kids - administrators also. Daughter teaches and says it's becoming serious issue.
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Orange Blooded [3102]
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Re: We have a problem in the High School Leagues
May 26, 2022, 6:44 PM
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And this is a perfect example of why government funded entities are always crap. I went to a public school in SC. It was extremely underfunded then, and even worse now.
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Orange Blooded [2845]
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Aren't most of these schools public charter schools and not
May 26, 2022, 9:06 AM
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private, tuition-based private schools? I do agree that charter schools have an advantage in that they can recruit because they are not bound by school district lines.
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All-In [43576]
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Southside Christian, St Joes, and Christ Church are
May 26, 2022, 9:19 AM
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all private. Can't speak for the others.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Southside Christian, St Joes, and Christ Church are
May 26, 2022, 10:04 AM
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Bishop England is private.
Gray and Oceanside Collegiate are both charter schools.
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CU Guru [1059]
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Re: Southside Christian, St Joes, and Christ Church are
May 26, 2022, 10:23 AM
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I will throw my .02 in since we have 2 children who play high school athletics and we play the Christ Churchs, Southside Christian, St Joes of the world.
Sure these private schools do have an advantage with the ability to recruit, scholarships, etc. but the lack of athletic facilities in Greenville County is laughable.
Greenville County High Schools have to have some of the worst facilities for such a large and fairly wealthy demographic. We play all over the Upstate and to compare Greenvilles facilities to Dormans, TL Hannas, Westside, Gaffney etc is comical. Hell, has anyone ever been to the basketball facilities at Landrum and Chesnee (both AA schools). They are both like mini arenas with awesome facilities. At Landrum you have the scoreboard that hangs down over the center of the court. NO public school in Greenville County comes close to that and Landrum is a AA school.
Previous post is correct in that the privates have a huge advantage from the start but the lack of facilities in Greenville is also a major factor.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Southside Christian, St Joes, and Christ Church are
May 26, 2022, 10:39 AM
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The same is true in the Low Country.
The lone shining facility in the Low Country is Wando's football/soccer/lacrosse stadium that they have to share with Lucy Beckham high school for all of the same sports. Wando is the biggest school in the state and doesn't even have their own field for all of those sports.
Meanwhile Oceanside is in the process of building of $7 million football stadium.
Oceanside also plays their baseball games at Shipyard Park which is the nicest facility in the state of South Carolina even when compared to all of the colleges in the state not named Clemson or scar.
There isn't a A, AA, AAA or AAAA public school in Charleston, Berkeley or Dorchester county that offers the facilities or the development opportunities that Oceanside offers for all of their athletes.
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Freshman [-99]
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How does Cain Bay compare?
May 26, 2022, 12:39 PM
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It’s pretty much brand new. And huge. What classification are they?
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: How does Cain Bay compare?
May 26, 2022, 1:32 PM
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Cane Bay is in the AAAAA classification.
Berkeley county school district went cheap and cut corners when they were designing and building Cane Bay's football, baseball and softball fields. The drainage on the fields is terrible.
They did build 2 softball and 2 baseball fields on the campus to allow for more practice space, but the playing surface on the secondary fields is even worse than the main field for each sport.
Cane Bay's football program is ok, but baseball and softball are not currently competitive in terms of challenging for making a run in the state playoffs.
Finally, and worst of all, they didn't build the school large enough for growth so all 3 of the Cane Bay schools (elementary, middle and high) are already maxed out in terms of student capacity.
Cane Bay elementary has to bus students to another school in Goose Creek because the school isn't large enough for how rapidly the neighborhood near the school has grown with young families.
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Freshman [-99]
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Actually, when they designed that high school
May 26, 2022, 1:44 PM
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they thought that they had included enough room for a 10 to 20 percent increase in population. But the lowcountry is growing so rapidly that on the very first day they opened they had trailers outside because the school was already too small. And the scary thing is that area has only started to grow. That area is going to be bigger than Charleston in 10 or 20 years. Ten years from now metro Charleston is going to include lower Orangeburg county.
My family has owned a lake house on Lake Marion in Eutawville since 1982. My parents moved there permanently in the mid-80s and my dad took an early retirement when international paper bought union camp back in the 90s. Our house is on Eutaw Creek. Due to the growth of Charleston, especially what’s going on with Volvo and Mercedes and that area, more new houses have been built in the Eutawville and Holly Hill area over the last 18 months than the last 20 years. Around Holly Hill along Highway 176 farms are being broken into 5+ acre tracks and being sold for $12-$15,000 an acre and it’s going up in price every day. Upper Dorchester County, lower Orangeburg County, Highway 176, interstate 95 and 26 in that area, Santee, Eutawville, Holly Hill, Harleyville it’s a land boom! I’ve never seen anything like it. It’s making the growth of Mount Pleasant look pedestrian.
Message was edited by: Lowcntry_Tiger®
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Actually, when they designed that high school
May 26, 2022, 2:26 PM
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Cane Bay and Ashley Ridge high schools were built at the same time and both have already been outgrown.
Lines have already been redrawn to send Cane Bay students back to Berkeley. Now there are too many students at Berkeley and lines are being redrawn to send some Berkeley students to Timberland.
The idea that the Cane Bay wasn't going to boom was very shortsighted.
The plans were already in place for the developers to acquire more land and continue to pack houses into the small area.
Even with those plans, Berkeley county drew lines much too wide for Cane Bay high school and that compounded the problem.
It is true that the growth in the area has been outrageous, but it doesn't mean that the decisionmakers were helpless and couldn't avoid how quickly problems have come up.
None of that however takes away from the corners that were cut in designing and building Cane Bay's outdoor athletic facilities. They were subpar the minute the project was deemed complete.
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Freshman [-99]
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Agree 100 percent especially with your last two paragraphs.
May 26, 2022, 2:48 PM
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Even without Volvo and Mercedes that area was growing so fast that Cane Bay was going to be a cluster.
But let’s also be honest about the fact that that area has to be insanely difficult to manage. I am in the mortgage business and when I get a referral for that area I never know whether the house is in Berkeley Dorchester or Charleston County. So it’s not like any one county controls planning and zoning in that area. You have power struggles within counties. Imagine the power struggles between three counties trying to control an area growing that rapidly. Then throw in the fact that you’re dealing with multinational corporations like Volvo and Mercedes. This is where the state needs to step in and help provide some guidance and try and get the counties to work and plan together.
One silver lining is the incredible facilities Roper hospital is building in that area. Historically people in the Holly Hill and Eutawville area had no choice in an emergency but for EMS to take them to Orangeburg. Now they are as close or closer to Cane Bay than Orangeburg. And much better doctors and facilities.
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Freshman [-99]
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CU Guru [1157]
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All-In [43992]
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Freshman [-99]
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Yes. I think it’s over in Mount Pleasant.
May 27, 2022, 11:24 AM
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110%er [6321]
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Re: We have a problem in the High School Leagues
May 26, 2022, 9:11 AM
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As a coach at a 4A school, the Gray situation is so infuriating. It makes zero sense that Gray is competing in a 2A region. Their only loss this year was 38-35 @ Gaffney, the 5A region state champs.
I think the best solution is for public schools to stop scheduling them. That's the only thing that I can think of at this point.
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Freshman [-99]
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When did this start?
May 26, 2022, 12:41 PM
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I thought pretty much all private schools competed in their own league. Isn’t it called something like SCISA?
South Carolina Independent school Association or something similar?
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CU Guru [1483]
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Re: When did this start?
May 26, 2022, 1:34 PM
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I.e. Cardinal Gibbons in Raleigh, private school that competes in NC 4A public school sports. They have won recent state championships in football, Lacrosse, & Cross country. My son’s varsity lacrosse team played them at their stadium in the playoffs this year, place was impressive. They have 8 kids on their team that should be going to my son’s high school. Drives me crazy that they can compete for public school championships.
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All-In [43992]
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The families of those kids are still paying taxes to support
May 26, 2022, 3:15 PM
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the public school that their kids don't attend.
While I agree that they probably shouldn't be playing in the public school league, their kids do deserve to play sports. There don't seem to be enough private schools in most parts of SC to fill a private school league. Even mid-sized cities like Greenville, Columbia, and Charleston don't seem to have enough private school teams to support a league in each of those cities.
Larger cities and wealthier areas have many private schools and have no problem having enough schools within a given geographic radius to form a private school league.
I don't know the answer, but I can see both sides. I agree that it's a problem for both public and private schools.
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110%er [5683]
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Re: When did this start?
May 26, 2022, 1:35 PM
[ in reply to When did this start? ] |
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Yep, the majority of private schools are in SCISA. Some of them, for whatever reason, don't want to be in SCISA and instead play in the public school leagues.
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All-In [43992]
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If there are enough schools within a reasonable distance
May 26, 2022, 3:16 PM
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then those private schools shouldn't be allowed to play in a public league.
The only reason I think it makes sense to comingle like that is if the private schools don't have enough private schools nearby to play a full season.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: We have a problem in the High School Leagues
May 26, 2022, 10:03 AM
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I have 2 comments to make regarding this post. (Ok maybe more than 2)
1) The high school transfer portal is up and running and it isn't just kids bailing on public schools to go to private/charter schools. The reason your list stops at AAA is because most of the private/charter schools are smaller but also because the AAAA and AAAAA schools are also poaching from the smaller public schools and also from other big schools that don't have good athletic programs.
2) That brings me to my second comment which is that maybe if more of the schools/counties around the state would start to actually invest in their students and their athletic programs, then it wouldn't be so easy for these "startup schools" to come in and poach their best athletes. There are a few counties in the state who take care of their facilities in the same ways that the private/charter schools do, but it's pretty limited.
The problem is not these private/charter schools. The problem is that kids and their parents are having their eyes opened to what is out there and they are realizing that the development and opportunities are not the same at every school. Further, instead of trying to improve the situation at the public schools to compete and offer a similar product, people are crying foul on the private/charter schools and saying that it isn't fair for them to offer better situations that the kids would be crazy not to take.
There is an IMG-like baseball academy in the middle of the state called P27 Academy. They do not play in the high school league. They schedule other academies and some colleges around the southeast for their games. It doesn't matter that they aren't in the high school league because kids are still flocking to that academy because what can be offered to them in terms of development.
Pushing these private/charter schools out of the high school league isn't going to keep athletes in the public schools. It's just going to water down the competition playing in the South Carolina High School League.
If you want to stop these schools from dominating, then you have to make changes to the public schools to make them worthwhile for people to keep sending their kids. These changes have to be athletic AND academic.
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Orange Blooded [3135]
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I agree on most points
May 26, 2022, 10:52 AM
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Public Schools better be focusing on improving academics. I say this with having a wife that is a teacher. Athletics, while important, should be second. Both can be a focus but with limited resources, academics has to be the primary.
Like I said, it is what it is. If my child had a chance and wanted to play D1, then I might would have moved them.
Maybe these schools should compete in their own league... kind of like the way we all see big time college football becoming... a super conference.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: I agree on most points
May 26, 2022, 11:02 AM
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I completely agree that the academic side of public education is heading in the wrong direction. I have multiple family members who are public school teachers.
The reports from them are not positive.
Surprisingly or maybe not so surprisingly, many parents seem to be more interested in moving their kids to improve their athletic opportunities as much or more than their academic opportunities.
If these private/charter schools can offer a better situation in BOTH areas then they will basically have their pick of which kids they want to bring into their school.
My opinion is that pushing them out of the leagues with the public schools won't help keep athletes or students in general in the public schools.
Sure, maybe a couple more traditional public schools will get a trophy at the end of their season, but the product on the field and in the schools won't be any better for it.
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Orange Blooded [2140]
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Re: I agree on most points
May 26, 2022, 12:56 PM
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I had a child that we sent to Gray. It wasn't for athletics but for quality of academic environment. You mess up there and you leave. Both my kids were in the public school system and it is so broken in so.many ways that if I had to do it again I would have considered leaving the area. Possibly even the state. No fan of private schools it just seems we aren't truly interested in providing a meaningful education any longer
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Scout Team [183]
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Re: I agree on most points
May 26, 2022, 2:49 PM
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My daughter is presently in 8th grade and we live in Lexington 2 school district. We went to an open house in March at Gray Collegiate because my daughter wants to go there next year. It was impressive athletically and academically. They are a dual enrollment school. Kids get college credit for college prep courses taught at Gray. It is possible to leave Gray with up to 2 years college credit.
Gray has an excellent ranking and that none of the other high schools in the area do. One reason for this is they can select who attends. My daughter applied for 9th grade and is presently on the waiting list. She is an A/B student. Tough to get in.
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Freshman [-99]
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It seems counterintuitive but
May 26, 2022, 1:39 PM
[ in reply to Re: I agree on most points ] |
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parents that care about academics and sports can elevate sports because they can supplement and teach their kids at home and of course we now have the Internet.
It is sad, however, what has happened to public schools. You can lay the blame directly at Jimmy Carter and the Democrats. This decline started with the creation of the Department of Education by Jimmy Carter in 1979 and him nationalizing the teachers unions.
I went to a small rural school in the lowcountry. My graduating class in 1984 was 104 kids and demographically we were probably 70% black if not more. Our athletic facilities and equipment were a joke. Poverty level. But even at that small high school, football, baseball, and basketball were extremely popular, even track, and tons of kids wanted to play. But I hear even big schools now have a hard time generating interest in athletics.
Even academically the school buildings and facilities were in mediocre to poor condition. My elementary school in 1972 was a new addition to the old white high school. My middle school was the black high school during segregation. And my high school was built sometime in the 60s. But by the early 80s was already looking rather unkept.
That being said most of the teachers were pretty good. Some where excellent. All seemed to really care about teaching and education and about kids. And we learned actual math science history English economics etc. There was no woke or political agenda. I was taught by a black high school history teacher that the emancipation proclamation did not free a single slave. So the truth and education actually mattered.
But me and the other top kids also benefited from the fact that our parents cared about education. I was taught to read and to do math before I ever got to kindergarten or elementary school. My parents taught me the value and the love of reading from day one in life. I was also taught nature and science when we went camping and when hunting and fishing. Of course like most kids in the lowcountry back then, I was born with a rod and reel in one hand and a shotgun in the other.
I look at public education today in rural communities and even schools across Charleston County and I see how much money they spend compared to the results and it’s criminal. We have so much more resources and technology today and so much more opportunity for kids yet a one room school house 100 years ago and even public schools during segregation and the 1980s in rural South Carolina produced infinitely superior graduates!
We need to burn the system down and rebuild it. We absolutely positively need to get rid of the Department of Education and get the federal government out of our schools. And we need to change the laws to make it easier for homeschooling.
But it won’t happen because this is exactly what the far left wants. The far left wants to destroy everything good about America because all they’re interested in is collapse. Because all they’re interested in is making people dependent on the government. Because they are fascist and communist authoritarians. If you vote Democrat you’re a useful idiot!
If you want to see something truly amazing and inspiring and a model for what every community should be doing go to YouTube and search Rory Feek one room school house.
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All-In [31200]
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Re: I agree on most points
May 26, 2022, 1:20 PM
[ in reply to I agree on most points ] |
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When I lived in Greenville Southside Christian was mainly soccer, baseball and basketball. Not sure when they started football but the league they played all other sports did not offer football. So they got into the SCHL. Not sure if their other sports transitioned as well.
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CU Guru [1966]
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Re: I agree on most points
May 26, 2022, 3:33 PM
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Southside, St. Joes and Christ church are all in SCHL. The SCHL has moved them around over the last couple of year from A to AA and back again. Southside is smaller in enrollment than St. Joe and Christ Church. Southside was in A this year and Christ Church and St. Joe I believe are being moved back down to A as well next season.
These smaller private schools develop players from middle school and if they show talent then some of the local bigger public schools take notice. Davis Bevell at Pitt is a prime example of this. Davis is the same age as my middle son and they played on the same teams at Southside Christian. Davis started school at Southside at an early age, so he wasn’t there for his athletic ability. Going into his ( I think I’m not sure) sophomore season he felt he should be the starter next year. He didn’t play on the varsity his Freshmen year until they brought him up for the playoffs after the JV season was over.The previous years starting QB was going into his senior year and was a very good QB. The coaching staff told him that all starting positions are determined on the practice field and he would be given every opportunity to compete for the starting position, but it wasn’t a given. Davis looked around and enrolled at Greenville high school and went on to have a very good high school career. All this just to say when people say these private schools are poaching talent that otherwise would be at the local public school , that’s not always the case. There is a safety that has started at Southside Christian since he was a freshman and he is going to be going to bigger public school next year. You can’t blame the kids in that you can be a big fish in a little pond, or if you are confident in your abilities you could be a big fish in a bigger pond and increase your chances of going on and play a sport you love at the next level.
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Freshman [-99]
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Your analysis seems pretty accurate because
May 26, 2022, 1:11 PM
[ in reply to Re: We have a problem in the High School Leagues ] |
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I immediately noticed the OP didn’t mention 4A and 5A programs.
The irony is Bishop England has had the money and resources to dominate high school sports since the 70s but they don’t seem to care. They certainly haven’t ever been focused on football.
The same can be said for Porter Gaud and even Wando, but they all seem to do well in the Olympic sports, especially Wando.
I can only speculate, but I think it’s because they are simply far more focused on academics. Academics and other opportunities and experiences.
Football, as we know, also costs a lot of money. At the high school level the money that would go towards a competitive high school football program goes a long way when it comes to Olympic sports and other activities.
And I could be completely wrong, this is purely speculative, but it makes sense. Because of how atrocious public schools have gotten, both in terms of academics and with social justice, homeschooling has exploded. Although in fairness it has been growing for years. But if you are homeschooling your children values is a big part of that and private schools align ideologically much closer with homeschoolers than public schools. I’d be curious to know across the south as homeschooling has gotten exponentially more popular how the private schools compare to public schools in terms of homeschooled kids involved in athletics. Tim Tebow was home schooled.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Your analysis seems pretty accurate because
May 26, 2022, 1:42 PM
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For the most part Bishop England, Porter Gaud and Wando are good at Olympic sports because of the demographics that make up a large portion of the population at those schools.
Porter Gaud got a lot better at basketball when they started to recruit kids that were not their typical students for the school.
It's honestly amazing that Wando isn't great at all sports just based on the facts that they have almost 4,000 students from which to find athletes to fill out their teams.
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Freshman [-99]
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I agree completely but would add that
May 26, 2022, 2:16 PM
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Porter Gaud and Bishop England as private schools with more money than God, especially Porter Gaud, which costs more per year than the University of South Carolina, could easily afford to bring in kids from the Tri-County area and Colleton county of any demographic and have one of the best football baseball and basketball programs not just in the state of South Carolina but the entire Southeast.
I never hear about Ashley Hall and girls sports. Speaking of more money than God. What’s the scoop on Ashley Hall?
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: I agree completely but would add that
May 26, 2022, 2:34 PM
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Yes those schools have the money to take that action, but they have to maintain a balance between improvement and keeping the boosters, board members, and parents of paying students happy.
I think that is the real reason more of the rich private schools haven't blown up with recruiting is because they want to maintain the illusion that "a few good athletes just happened to enroll here" rather than publicly declaring themselves win at all costs institutions.
Specifically for Porter Gaud, SCISA has rules against recruiting so it must be done in a way that feigns integrity.
I don't know much about Ashley Hall either. They used to be pretty good (state title contenders) in track and field, but I don't know anything about their athletic programs now.
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Freshman [-99]
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That sounds like a pretty accurate analysis.
May 26, 2022, 3:01 PM
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Porter Gaud has another problem as well. Space and property values.
I remember when Bishop England sold their campus to CofC and moved out to Daniel Island when Daniel Island was just starting to get developed. I remember thinking what a really smart decision and move that was. In hindsight not only was it impressive, but frankly brilliant. They knew they were doing the right thing, the smart thing, but I really don’t think anyone ever thought it would be as impactful as it has been. That’s one of those things that was smart at the time but due to luck and circumstances looks even more impressive years later. And Daniel Island is pretty centrally located. But it has been pretty much developed. Porter Gaud can’t take advantage of a situation like that today. Charleston has simply grown too big too fast since Bishop England did that. That was a once in a lifetime opportunity and Bishop England timed it perfectly.
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110%er [5683]
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It's not just in the public school leagues either
May 26, 2022, 10:42 AM
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Some SCISA schools (Hammond and First Baptist, most notoriously) recruit players. You can probably guess who wins all of the state championships.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: It's not just in the public school leagues either
May 26, 2022, 10:45 AM
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Many of the big public schools in the state recruit also.
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Freshman [-99]
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This has been going on since the 60s.
May 26, 2022, 2:21 PM
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In Dorchester County the head football coach at St. George moved to Summerville so his son could play quarterback for Summerville. When I was at Clemson back in the 80s I knew kids from Summerville that had been recruited from across the lowcountry. Not just for football.
Summerville would even hold kids back in the eighth grade. It was like red shirting. If a kid was growing and had a lot of potential they would literally have them take the eighth grade over again. I’m friends with Keith Jennings. Ask him. He was one of them.
For what it’s worth, I don’t have a problem with private schools recruiting kids. Because they already draw from the entire area for their student body. And really it doesn’t bother me with the public schools. Is it really any different for a kid to move across town that has athletic ability to improve his options than for parents that decide to buy a house in Mount Pleasant so their kids can get a better education at Wando? I mean really isn’t that what America is about? Moving and relocating so that we improve our lot in life and improve our opportunities and quality of life especially for our children? In fact I find it un-American to be against it!
Would it bother you if parents moved across town so their kids can get a better education? Why is that any different? The way for kids out of poverty is often through an athletic scholarship that changes their family trajectory forever. Even if they never play one day as a professional athlete, just getting that scholarship and graduating from a quality college has changed their life and their family forever. And I’m talking about for all poor people. White black Hispanic.
This is why all of the changes in college athletics in the name of money and exploitation and other BS is going to end up ultimately harming disproportionately black kids and girls. Because what these people are doing is incredibly shortsighted and ultimately it’s going to destroy Olympic athletics and the tens of thousands ( probably 100!s) of scholarships every year for sports other than football and basketball that go to minorities and girls. But of course the Democrats and the people on the left always hurt the people they say they care about. Because they don’t really care. It’s identity politics and their lust for power and control.
Message was edited by: Lowcntry_Tiger®
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: This has been going on since the 60s.
May 26, 2022, 2:45 PM
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In the 70s my dad was recruited to play football at Summerville by John McKissick himself on the field after playing against Summerville.
My dad told him "no" in what he refers to as "what you would expect from an arrogant high school athlete" and said he would make sure to beat Summerville the following year.
His story goes that after Summerville beat them much worse the following season, Coach McKissick came and found him and reminded him of his terrible decision not to come to Summerville.
I don't have a problem with kids choosing to improve their situation academically or athletically.
I do have a problem with some of the games that the egotistical high school coaches play with kids to get them to do so if it is not necessarily in their best interest.
The redshirt program is still alive and well in high school athletics also.
There is a star athlete in the lowcountry, with no academic issues, who is just finishing up his sophomore year of high school and is already 17.
Again I don't have a problem holding kids back as long as it is done for the benefit of the kid and not a forced action to create an advantage for a team or coach.
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110%er [6104]
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Re: We have a problem in the High School Leagues
May 26, 2022, 11:09 AM
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I can say with authority St Joseph’s does not recruit or give scholarships based on athletics, only on financial need. This is the laughable accusation that has circulated for years. SJ was a ten pound weakling that public schools loved to beat up on for quite a while. When they started winning some games and even championships, that’s when the whining started. Nobody complained when we were a perennial doormat.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: We have a problem in the High School Leagues
May 26, 2022, 11:16 AM
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Your school is associated by designation, but I can assure you that the schools that people are truly mad at are SCS, Gray and Oceanside.
Those are the 3 names that you see repeated over and over in the OP's list.
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Orange Blooded [4086]
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Re: We have a problem in the High School Leagues
May 26, 2022, 11:13 AM
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Make them play up a level or two.
Charters as well.
and if they win the state championship or reach the final four teams, they go up a level.
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110%er [6104]
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Re: We have a problem in the High School Leagues
May 26, 2022, 11:20 AM
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That’s exactly what happened when SJ started winning and it was welcomed as the competition improved. The primary reason parents send students to SJ is academics in a faith based environment, not athletics.
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Freshman [-99]
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That was smart of SJ.
May 26, 2022, 3:07 PM
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You really don’t benefit punching down. A new school that’s improving like that should move up in competition over time. Playing bigger schools with better athletes in the public school system will only make them better.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: We have a problem in the High School Leagues
May 26, 2022, 11:21 AM
[ in reply to Re: We have a problem in the High School Leagues ] |
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The biggest schools in the state have the most influence with the high school league because they bring in the most money.
I wouldn't make a bet on those private/charter schools getting pushed up to compete in AAAA or AAAAA without their attendance requiring it.
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Orange Blooded [3135]
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All-In [43992]
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LOL is this a joke?
May 26, 2022, 12:32 PM
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I hope my meter is broken.
No one seemed to mind our “unfair advantage” with our out-of-this-world facilities for football. Or the fact that we had the highest payroll in college football.
No, that was fine and dandy. No one seemed to mind that we might be putting smaller and less financially prosperous programs at a disadvantage.
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Orange Blooded [3135]
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Why would it be a joke. All I'm saying is
May 26, 2022, 2:57 PM
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when you have "IMG" like schools, then probably don't belong in the same high school division. Someone suggested that they should move up to comparable talent level than the lower levels. A high school of 400 kids in Single A isn't going to compete with a private school that can attract talent of an AAA. Move them up to the bigger boys and girls.
Besides, isn't this a better topic than yelling at each other about gun control or the current news cycle?
******************* I typed but then deleted my first response, since we all need to be more civil on-line to each other.
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All-In [43992]
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Thanks, I think I understand your point now.
May 26, 2022, 3:09 PM
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You don't have a problem with high schools spending the money, you just don't feel that they should be competing in the same division as schools with dramatically different resources, correct?
I agree in theory, but I don't know how it can ever be completely fair. Using the ACC as an example, schools like Wake Forest and Duke with much smaller budgets and fan support are never going to consistently compete with schools like Clemson with much larger budgets and support.
I guess my question is, how fair can we - or should we - try to make it?
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Freshman [-99]
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I give you credit for trying to dial things back but let’s be honest
May 26, 2022, 3:24 PM
[ in reply to Why would it be a joke. All I'm saying is ] |
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The problem on this forum is about 10 or 12 extremely Progressive people that are flat out simply communist authoritarian‘s, fascists, completely brainwashed that can’t see the truth about such things as Covid for example when it’s punching them in the face. I get viciously attacked and called unhinged by the same handful of commies on a regular basis for posting things that are 100 percent correct that I have even documented and proved are correct.
I am a first and second amendment absolutist. Pretty much a strict constitutionalist, a firm believer in federalism, a radical libertarian so I have no problem with freedom of speech, including insulting someone, but on a forum like this when one person is trying to have an honest conversation and other people do nothing but viciously attacked them personally without any attempt at engaging in the conversation those posts should be removed. I don’t think they should be blocked or banned as posters, but when they make a post that does nothing but attack someone rather than engage in the conversation those posts should be removed.
FYI I’m not talking about YouTube Twitter or Instagram or platforms like that. There should be absolutely no regulation of those other than say child ####. But those are backbones of discourse in America and globally. They are the public forum. Forums and websites like this are different. And I do view how they should be managed differently. But again people should not be banned or blocked, but certain posts removed. Anything that doesn’t further or contribute to the conversation. Straight up attacks. That’s not needed warranted or beneficial to the conversation on a forum such as this.
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Freshman [-99]
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The problem with schools like IMG is they were created solely for athletics.
May 27, 2022, 11:22 AM
[ in reply to Why would it be a joke. All I'm saying is ] |
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if they were academics first but with a strong emphasis on athletics I would feel differently. But these schools are created for one reason and one reason only: sports.
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Starter [390]
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Re: We have a problem in the High School Leagues
May 26, 2022, 3:08 PM
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This situation has already been playing out for years in the Northeast part of the country. Even with great facilities, the Public schools can no longer compete with Private schools. Private schools can recruit student athletes from anywhere. The public schools can only take kids that live in their school district.
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Legend [17522]
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In Savannah Ga, the private schools tend to dominate
May 26, 2022, 6:19 PM
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Not always. But often. A few years ago I watched my nephew play QB for a 2A school about an hour outside Savannah. His team played a Savannah private school and they were crushed physically and on the scoreboard. I sat next to a group of Dads from the private school. Their sons were some of the better players. I asked them why they were sitting on the visitor side of the field. They said they weren't real comfortable on the home field side. Their kids were there for a free scholarship and a better education, but the parents were not part of the group or socially trying to keep up with the Jones'.
Athletes and their parents around the country are opting for the better educations and facilities often available from private schools who want to win in sports and socially diversify. Pretty prevalent from Florida to California. Many Catholic schools are all in.
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Orange Blooded [4754]
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Re: We have a problem in the High School Leagues
May 26, 2022, 6:32 PM
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Catholic Schools have been doing the same thing up in northern states for the last 60 years.
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110%er [5927]
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when I played 1A football
May 26, 2022, 7:01 PM
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we would routinely curb stomp Christ Church and Southside Christian. My freshman year we beat Christ Church 54-6, or something. but after I graduated I went to our game vs. Christ Church and out of nowhere they had what looked like a small college roster. they soundly beat us that night. That's when I knew it wasn't fair. how are they allowed to play and compete against public schools?
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: when I played 1A football
May 27, 2022, 9:29 AM
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Perfectly acceptable when they were an easy win for your high school, but totally unfair when they flipped the outcome and made your high school an easy win for them?
This sounds a lot like sour grapes to me.
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All-In [43992]
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I don't think there are enough comparable private schools
May 27, 2022, 11:31 AM
[ in reply to when I played 1A football ] |
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in the area for there to be a private school league.
It's not fair to ask players and their families to travel long distances for many of their games. The other schools in their conference should be reasonably close, and I don't think that's possible in most mid-sized cities and smaller.
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CU Guru [1938]
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Re: We have a problem in the High School Leagues
May 27, 2022, 8:36 AM
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Mater Dei and others have been doing this for decades. You’re just looking for something else to whine about which is ok if you’re off DJ for a few minutes.
The act has grown tiresome
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All-In [43992]
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At least Mater Dei plays in a conference with other private
May 27, 2022, 11:33 AM
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schools and no public schools.
That levels the playing field somewhat.
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