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National Champion [7197]
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Why many do not believe
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May 15, 2025, 3:46 PM
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John 10:26-29
"....You do not believe because you are not my sheep...."
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Oculus Spirit [42134]
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your god is an awesome god
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May 15, 2025, 3:54 PM
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In fact, he's the only god.
All other gods are ridiculous, made up BS.
Not your though. Yours is real.
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Clemson Sports Icon [59434]
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Kinda seems like circular logic.***
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May 15, 2025, 3:58 PM
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National Champion [7197]
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Re: Kinda seems like circular logic.***
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May 15, 2025, 4:03 PM
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2 Cor 4:3
" And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing "
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Clemson Sports Icon [59434]
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Re: Kinda seems like circular logic.***
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May 15, 2025, 4:13 PM
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National Champion [7197]
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Re: Kinda seems like circular logic.***
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May 15, 2025, 4:30 PM
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MT11:25-27
25 At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. 26 Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.
27 “All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
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110%er [3617]
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Re: Kinda seems like circular logic.***
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May 15, 2025, 4:53 PM
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Oh so I’m wise. Thank you.
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CU Medallion [20257]
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National Champion [7197]
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Re: Kinda seems like circular logic.***
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May 16, 2025, 7:51 PM
[ in reply to Re: Kinda seems like circular logic.*** ] |
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I was actually thinking of a Psalm.
" The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God."
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Clemson Icon [26023]
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Campus Hero [13530]
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Perhaps because the current state of Christianity in this country is being
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May 15, 2025, 4:28 PM
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dominated by money grubbing power hungry charlatans. Christians have a great coach, but the team is awful shaky.
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National Champion [7197]
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Re: Perhaps because the current state of Christianity in this country is being
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May 15, 2025, 4:33 PM
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Matthew 13:11
New American Standard Bible
11 And [a]Jesus answered them, “To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.
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Campus Hero [13530]
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Perhaps conversations would be more helpful than throwing the New American
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May 15, 2025, 4:50 PM
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Standard at me. I studied it intensely for 5 years and been familiar my whole life. Wouldn’t consider myself an expert, but I can speak to the topic.
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National Champion [7197]
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Re: Perhaps conversations would be more helpful than throwing the New American
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May 15, 2025, 4:57 PM
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I was referencing the hypocritical churches you mentioned. It was directed at your post, not at you.
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Campus Hero [13530]
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I understand, did not take it as such.
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May 15, 2025, 5:37 PM
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Only recommending conversation vs Bible verse response.
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National Champion [7197]
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Re: I understand, did not take it as such.
May 15, 2025, 8:07 PM
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Sometimes Scripture is so obvious it needs no comment.
Many "tares" fill the pews of the modern church.
Many charlatans fill the pulpits of modern churches.
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Orange Immortal [65663]
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Personally, I don't believe a loving God would create all of us so
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May 15, 2025, 8:41 PM
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that most of us would spend eternity in hell. It's not God that I question; I question what people tell me about God when it makes no sense.
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National Champion [7197]
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Re: Personally, I don't believe a loving God would create all of us so
May 15, 2025, 8:50 PM
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John 10:26-29
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Orange Immortal [65663]
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Was that supposed to be a response to me?
May 16, 2025, 12:07 AM
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If so, it in no way addresses my point. It's a not-so-clever dodge in lieu of an honest explanation.
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National Champion [7197]
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Re: Was that supposed to be a response to me?
May 16, 2025, 12:26 AM
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It’s not a dodge at all. You do not believe because you are not one of His sheep.
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Orange Immortal [65663]
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Is becoming one of his sheep my choice or his?
May 16, 2025, 8:39 AM
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If it requires me taking a leap of faith based on my inability to fully know and understand everything, I'm willing to be persuaded. If it requires me accepting or ignoring demonstrable falsehoods, then I have no desire to join such a flock. If he rejects me because of that, then I know he's neither loving or just.
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National Champion [7197]
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Re: Is becoming one of his sheep my choice or his?
May 16, 2025, 5:42 PM
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Whatever excuse you choose, you are not his sheep.
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Orange Immortal [65663]
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Re: Is becoming one of his sheep my choice or his?
May 16, 2025, 10:28 PM
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I don't know exactly what you mean, but I believe God loves me and treats me accordingly.
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National Champion [7197]
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Re: Is becoming one of his sheep my choice or his?
May 17, 2025, 6:41 AM
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If you believe God loves you, then hopefully He is working in you to show you the light. Maybe you are His sheep. Only He knows.
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Dynasty Maker [3264]
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You have a choice...
May 18, 2025, 7:31 PM
[ in reply to Is becoming one of his sheep my choice or his? ] |
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Christ died for all of us, not just the "elect few". Your destination in the afterlife has not been pre-determined.
“The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance” (2 Pet. 3:9)
There is freewill throughout the bible. And God desires all of us to be saved.
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National Champion [7197]
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Re: You have a choice...
May 18, 2025, 7:41 PM
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That verse supports predeterminism.
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Dynasty Maker [3264]
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No it doesn't****
May 18, 2025, 8:53 PM
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National Champion [7197]
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Re: You have a choice...
May 18, 2025, 8:32 PM
[ in reply to You have a choice... ] |
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2 Corinthians 5:14
New American Standard Bible
14 For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died;
"All" has to mean all of the elect. If it meant every person, then every person died with Christ and was saved.
Same thing going on in passage you quoted.
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Dynasty Maker [3264]
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Re: You have a choice...
May 19, 2025, 10:14 AM
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The verse I quoted shows that atonement is available for all (not the elect few, but all). This supports the more Arminian view.
The verse you quoted from Corinthians actually supports Arminianism. Again, "all" means "all"...not just some. All died, yet Christ died for all....Not "Christ died for some"....Again, this shows that atonement is available for all.
We're not going to settle this argument that's been going on for hundreds of years here. But there is a biblical case, a very strong one, to support the non-Calvinist (more Arminian) view.
You're a Baptist. I thought that Baptists were not Calvinists. Does your pastor preach Calvinism in your congregation? If some Baptists are preaching Calvinism and others are preaching a more Arminian view, then sounds like the SBC has some "freewill" going on within the pulpit. 
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National Champion [7197]
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Re: You have a choice...
May 19, 2025, 3:34 PM
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If in the above passage you think all means all people, then all people died in Christ so no one will die lost.
Baptist are not Calvinists? Where have you been hiding? 1 SBC seminary is Non Cal. One SBC seminary is full Calvinists. The third is officially non Cal, but almost it's entire faculty is Calvinists. Dr Al Mohler, at last SBC convention, fell just a few votes short of winning presidency. He is ultra Calvinistic and has made it plain that his goal is for all three SBC Seminaries to become fully Calvinistic in doctrine.
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Dynasty Maker [3264]
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I'm not a Baptist, so I don't follow everything you guys are doing...
May 19, 2025, 3:49 PM
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I have heard some local Baptists preach from more of the Arminian perspective, but I don't generally follow what goes on in the SBC or their seminaries.
If you guys go full Calvinist, that will not be a good thing, IMO. And I don't think it will help you grow.
I have heard Mohler talk many many years ago (like back in the 2000's). He's an ultra-conservative, and I don't think that would be good for the SBC. But it's not my circus, so they'll do what they want.
I was aware that Presbyterians were Calvinist.
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110%er [3910]
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Re: You have a choice...
May 19, 2025, 3:57 PM
[ in reply to Re: You have a choice... ] |
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1 Timothy 2:4. "God desires for all to be save and come to a knowledge of the truth." Does "all" mean something different than all in that passage?
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National Champion [7197]
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Re: You have a choice...
May 19, 2025, 4:42 PM
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According to John 6:37-39John 6:65
Matthew 11:27, John 17:9, Romans 8:29-30, Ephesians 1:4-5, Romans 9:11-13, Romans 9:16 it obviously has to mean all the elect.
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110%er [3910]
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Re: You have a choice...
May 19, 2025, 5:51 PM
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Seems like a nonsensical statement if God has already unconditionally elected these people.
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National Champion [7197]
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Re: You have a choice...
May 19, 2025, 6:23 PM
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He is patient with His elect. He makes sure His elect come to Him.
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Dynasty Maker [3264]
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All means All....not "some"....
May 19, 2025, 6:40 PM
[ in reply to Re: You have a choice... ] |
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That passage that you quoted is strong support for Arminianism. It's not the only one.
This link is a good takedown of Calvinism. It's rather long, but it's not a book. A lot of the verses that Calvinists quote don't actually support their view, but they cling to them nonetheless.
https://biblevscalvinism.org/#:~:text=It%20teaches%20Determinism%2C%20a%20belief,character%20and%20holiness%20of%20God.
Quoting from the link, and there's much more if you want to read through it:
Salvation Offered to All
The Bible is filled with God’s appeal to all people to come to Him in faith. Here are just three more of these verses:
1 Timothy 2:3-6 "This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time."
2 Peter 3:9 "Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."
John 3:16 " For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
Not “all kinds of people”, or “all the predetermined Elect”, as Calvinists twist these verses to fit their systematic, but all people.
This is the ‘good news’ – the ‘gospel’ – found in the Bible. Calvinism is literally ‘bad news’. Turn instead to the love of Jesus Christ, who created and sustains the universe, who laid down His life for all to have the opportunity to be reconciled to God, who rose from the dead, who reigns with God the Father, and who will return to make a new heaven and a new earth for all who respond to Him in faith.
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National Champion [7197]
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Re: All means All....not "some"....
May 19, 2025, 6:54 PM
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I can cite you many sources that “take down” Arminianism.
The truth is the debate between the two positions has raged since the reformation. It won’t be settled today. If it could be settled, it would be settled. I was an Arminianmost my life. Got my masters in theology from a Seminary that saw Calvinists as heretics. As I continued to study Scripture, every relevant verse screamed Calvinism to me. I am well settled in Calvinism. If the debate could academically be won, there would be no debate.
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Dynasty Maker [3264]
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OK thanks, I'm aware there's a debate....
May 19, 2025, 7:15 PM
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And yes, we're not going to settle the debate on here. But I want people on this board to be aware of other views that are not Calvinist. This board should be able to see views from both sides of this divide. You are certainly not shy about discussing your beliefs. And so it is with me, if I beg to differ...
Jesus didn't come to this Earth and die for some people's sins. He died for ALL of our sins, and His Grace is available to all who want it. Calvinists are trying to over-engineer their interpretation of the Bible. I don't have a Theology degree, but I feel well settled in my view.
I don't care what your degree is in. You can still be wrong, even if "well settled" in your own mind (of your own free well, I might add). There are many people with Theology degrees who do not agree with you.
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National Champion [7197]
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Re: OK thanks, I'm aware there's a debate....
May 19, 2025, 8:24 PM
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And being a Methodist, I have no doubt you are Arminian. There are basically no Arminian Baptists. There are non Calvinist Baptists but they are not Arminian. As I see it, I am the only Calvinist in the board. The non cal side seems represented well.
Calvinism is older than Arminianism. The non Catholic Church was universally Calvinist prior to Jacobius Arminius. (Though the name came later)
The major problem you will find with Arminianism is that it creates a fatal theological flaw that can’t be overcome. For Arminianism to be true, you must make God less than omnipotent. If He desires something, he is patient and long suffering in that desire, and that desire does not come about; how is He omnipotent?
Adrian Rogers was very, very anti Calvinistic. In a sermon he preached close to the time of His death, he said”There is a door to heaven. On the outside of the door it says ‘whosoever will’. On the inside of the door it says’determined before the foundations of the world’.”
I will say that Mohler has an open invitation to debate any non Calvinist. Several take him up on it. He chews them up and spits them out. He had one very prominent non-cal SBC pastor almost in tears. D James Kennedy ,a Presbyterian Calvinist, took on all comers for half a century and never lost a debate. When you examine the topic Sola Scripture, you can honestly arrive only at one conclusion. Emotionally, that conclusion feels to be so harsh and terrible that man’s reasoning can’t stomach it. All Arminans will refuse to debate Sola Scripture. They can only debate by dragging heavy doses of philosophy and appeal to emotions into the debate. Most will refuse a debate with Sola Scripture as a debate rule.
Throw the commentary away for a while. You can google a list of verses that support tulip. You can google a list of verses that support Arminianism. You could even go back to the remonstrance or the counter remonstrance. Look at every passage that supports each.
There is only one Old Testament passage that can not be easily harmonized to Calvinism. There are a multitude of passages that can not be harmonized to Arminianism.
A non Calvinist can not even honestly get through John 10. The entire chapter is about salvation. V26 “but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. V27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them and they follow me. V28 And I give eternal life to them….”
“You don’t believe because you are not my sheep.” It does not get any simpler than that.
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Dynasty Maker [3264]
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Re: OK thanks, I'm aware there's a debate....
May 20, 2025, 9:42 AM
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I guess if John 10 26 was dispositive of it, then the Bible wouldn't have John 10 38, where Jesus says to the same people that he's talking to in John 10 26:
But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.
He's still arguing with these people, trying to get them to understand who he is. So, I don't think John 10 is Calvinist. Jesus is confronted with non-believers, and he's trying to get them to see who/what he is. If God had pre-emptively walled these people off, we wouldn't have verse 38, where Jesus is still trying to convince these non-sheep.
I'm sure Albert Mohler is a great debater. I've not listened to him in about 15-20 years, and have not seen him debate an Arminian. But even if he "wins", I don't think that is enough to make the case that Calvinism is the "stronger" case. It just means he's a great debater. Hillary destroyed Trump in their debates, as did Kamala. And both lost to him in the election. It takes more than a 1 hour debate.
Anyway, it's an interesting topic.
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National Champion [7197]
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Re: OK thanks, I'm aware there's a debate....
May 20, 2025, 11:25 AM
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Verse 38 was a pronouncement of judgment on them. Jesus is just telling them that they are so blind they can't even see miracles. A further evidence they are not sheep.
Hillary and Trump was close. Hillary had her moments and Trump had his.
Cackling Camala didn't even come close to beating Trump.
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Dynasty Maker [3264]
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It's Kamala, with a K, not a C...
May 20, 2025, 12:25 PM
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Even Fox News polling showed that Kamala won that debate.
Your response is exactly as I expected. You're so biased in your political views, that you can't even admit when your candidate got his ### kicked in a debate. And on top of that, you can't even admit he lost the election in 2020. So, when you tell me that so-an-so Calvinist beat so-and-so Arminian in a debate, I have to assume there's a little bit of bias to your view of that, knowing what I know of you on this board.
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National Champion [7197]
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Re: It's Kamala, with a K, not a C...
May 20, 2025, 12:50 PM
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I definitely have bias. You have bias. Every thinking mind develops bias. Every person on Tigernet (except a few trolls) have Clemson bias.
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Orange Immortal [65663]
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Re: You have a choice...
May 18, 2025, 9:16 PM
[ in reply to You have a choice... ] |
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I definitely think we make choices, according to God's grand design.
And God desires all of us to be saved.
Then why does he create us in a way such that he knows most of us will spend eternity in hell? What's the point?
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National Champion [7197]
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Re: You have a choice...
May 19, 2025, 6:26 PM
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Your view fits election. He desires All His elect to be saved. If He truly desired All persons to be saved, and all persons are not saved, that would make Him a non-omnipotent being. What He desires, He gets!
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Fan [32]
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Re: Why many do not believe
May 16, 2025, 6:46 AM
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Calvinism & dispensationalism both have roots at the current seat & dwelling place of Satan.
Revelation 2:13
King James Version
13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
Antipas means "for all or against all" as in, neutrality, like Switzerland, where Geneva is. In peace time they pretend to be "for all". In war they pretend to be "against all". Switzerland's motto is "all for one and one for all".
Geneva's motto is "after darkness, the light"....2 Corinthians 11:14...Satan transformed himself into an angel of light....after darkness, the light, at Satan's seat & dwelling place in present day spiritual Pergamos; Geneva Switzerland.
In the old Hebrew Bible "geneva" means "stolen freedom", as in, kidnapping to sell into slavery. Consider this in relation to the agenda of all the Satanic organizations like the WEF & WHO; both headquartered in Geneva.
In Revelation 2:17 Christ promises to supernaturally feed the church of Pergamos. In 1 Kings 19 the pre incarnate Christ (Angel of the Lord) supernaturally feeds Elijah under a juniper tree. Geneva means juniper tree. The thing that has been shall be, and there's nothing new under the sun...He feeds the church at Pergamos under a Geneva as well.
The Pergamos prophecy references Balac & Baalam. Their story can be found in the old testament in Numbers 22. Geneva Switzerland's area code is 22.
In Job 41 we read about leviathan. Switzerland's country code is 41....seat & dwelling place of Satan (leviathan). 41 is also tied in multiple ways to Satan, devils, sin and evil in the Bible. (Ezekiel 28:13...28+13 = 41, Matthew 25:41, etc). World Economic Forum = 18 letters. World Health Organization = 23 letters. 23+18 = 41...both are based in Geneva Switzerland. Switzerland's country code is 41.
The Pergamos prophecy also speaks about "the deeds of the Nicolaitanes". Nicolaitanes means "conquering the laity", as in, oppressive religious hierarchy. John Calvin established a theocracy at Geneva Switzerland in the 1500s.
Geneva has 13 zip codes. 13 is the number of rebellion/evil in the Bible & is associated with the antichrist (Revelation 13), Satan (Ezekiel 28, verse 13) & Satan's seat & dwelling place (Revelation 2 verse 13). It's also interesting to note that Switzerland's country code is 41 & if you add the 28+13 in Ezekiel 28:13, you get 41....and that verse in Ezekiel is referring to Satan.
The opening verse (12) of the Pergamos prophecy has 22 words...Geneva area code = 22.
The 2nd verse of the Pergamos prophecy (13) has 3 uses of the word "where". The first & second uses of this word are word #s 6 & 10 of verse 13 of chapter 2 of Revelation (10 letters). 6+10+13+2+10 = 41. The 3rd use of this word is in direct relation to Antipas place of martyrdom & is the 41st word of the verse. 41 = Switzerland's country code.
In the 3rd verse of the Pergamos prophecy (verse 14) there are 41 words...Switzerland country code is 41. Also BALAC is the 22nd word (Geneva area code = 22) in this verse & BALAC has a cumulative alphabetic value of 19. 19+22 = 41....Switzerland's country code. B = 2nd, letter A = 1st, L = 12th, A = 1st, C = 3rd...add them to get 19 + it's the 22nd word of the verse = 41.
BALAC means "devastator" or "one who lays waste" and is found here as a reference in the Pergamos prophecy. At CERN in Geneva, they pay homage to SHIVA the destroyer. And in the "old days" there was a temple of Apollyon in Geneva. Same devil, different cultures.
John Nelson Darby, father of American evangelicalism's dispensationalism & pre trib rapture heresies boosted his "street cred" and had his doctrines theologically legitimized thru speeches/lectures he gave at Geneva Switzerland; the current seat & dwelling place of Satan. In other words, his lies took root after he spoke from his daddy's throne.
Pergamos (spiritually) seat of Satan IS CURRENTLY Geneva where Antipas was martyred although there are conflicting stories about this. Some say Geneva. Some say Pergamos. Scriptural evidence cross referenced with real world events & facts (WEF/WHO/CERN) all points to Geneva.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [102940]
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We have some serious perspective issues going in this thread.
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May 16, 2025, 6:53 AM
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We assume our perspective is all that matters so let me ask a rhetorical question. If you fell in love with a woman who refused your flowers, candy and absolutely rejected you in every way including your offer to take her to a vacation paradise on a South Pacific Sea island would you ask her to marry you?
God, being eternal and all knowing including knowing that you categorically reject Him is suppose to choose you? Now that's humility!
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Orange Immortal [65663]
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Couple of things . . .
May 16, 2025, 9:44 AM
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As a human being with all of the limitations and characteristics that entails, I would eventually move on from such a woman. I can't make her love me, but there's a good chance I can find somebody else who will.
God, the eternal, all-powerful creator of everything, could easily avoid any and all rejection. He could create a perfect existence in which everyone loved him and every other person. He could very easily make such a woman love him. This is where the analogy falls apart: We, as humans, are forced to tolerate and deal with rejection; God is not. Rejection is something God chose. He could have accomplished absolutely anything without it, but he wanted it, for some reason. That makes a huge difference.
The question is, "Why does God WANT the possibility of rejection?". Since he's all-powerful, it can't be because he needs it for any reason. Specifically, he wouldn't need it to feel true love from us. It then follows that if he created all of this with eternity in hell being the consequence for rejecting him, and allows it to continue when he could easily end it, he WANTS most of us spending eternity suffering in misery. Giving us an out if we accept his blood sacrifice doesn't change that one bit.
That's exactly what you believe, whether you see it or can admit it or not. Quoting scripture can't change it.
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National Champion [7197]
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Re: Couple of things . . .
May 16, 2025, 7:49 PM
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Romans 9:20
"On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? Will the thing molded say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this”?"
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Orange Immortal [65663]
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Re: Couple of things . . .
May 16, 2025, 10:26 PM
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I don't believe that God, if he is a loving or just God, would mold me or my existence such that I could spend eternity in hell. It would serve no loving or just purpose. And no, I don't believe any old thing because somebody else believes it's true. For the record, I respect your beliefs and your right to express them freely. I really appreciate the conversation, and it's okay to disagree.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [102940]
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You seem to have this all figured out, your logic is sound and your intellect...
May 17, 2025, 5:51 AM
[ in reply to Couple of things . . . ] |
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sophisticated. So tell me how freewill without freewill works.
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National Champion [7197]
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Re: You seem to have this all figured out, your logic is sound and your intellect...
May 17, 2025, 6:36 AM
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Where. did I say man hade free will in regard to salvation?
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [102940]
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My response was addressed to Smiling.***
May 19, 2025, 7:00 AM
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Orange Immortal [65663]
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I don't know that I have it figured out, but I feel like I can rule out some
May 17, 2025, 11:34 AM
[ in reply to You seem to have this all figured out, your logic is sound and your intellect... ] |
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things.
So tell me how freewill without freewill works.
I have no idea, and I don't have to in order for the following to be true: If God is all-powerful, nothing is required of him, and there is nothing he can't do. He would not HAVE to give us free wll, and he could accomplish absolutely anything without it. Otherwise, he's not all-powerful. It's that simple.
I can't begin to fully understand the enormity and complexity that is God. We as humans are all definitely very limited in that way. I do believe we were given the tools and ability to do what we are here to do, and I think we can rule out certain things and point ourselves in the right direction.
I don't believe God created us, and by us I mean spiritual beings or souls, merely to be born into sin in this physical existence on earth, destined to eternity in hell unless we make the correct choice, knowing from the start that most of us won't. Would you have children if you knew for a fact that they would spend eternity in hell after a brief experience on earth?
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National Champion [7197]
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Re: I don't know that I have it figured out, but I feel like I can rule out some
May 17, 2025, 2:26 PM
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Well, you want something to make sense to “the natural man” that Scripture said would not make sense to you.
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Orange Immortal [65663]
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Yep - there's a reason you're being told to ignore the man behind the curtain.
May 18, 2025, 9:20 AM
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It's not God telling you that, it's the man, and he does not love you or have your best interest at heart.
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National Champion [7197]
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Re: Yep - there's a reason you're being told to ignore the man behind the curtain.
May 18, 2025, 9:54 AM
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God told me that.
Scripture I’d fully inspired.
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Orange Immortal [65663]
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Re: Yep - there's a reason you're being told to ignore the man behind the curtain.
May 18, 2025, 7:41 PM
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You are free to believe that, but I don't happen to agree. Again, my faith is based on the belief that God is all loving, and loves us all, and by "us", I mean our eternal souls, not our current physical iterations.
I wish you nothing but the best 357, and I'm sure God does too.
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National Champion [7197]
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Re: Yep - there's a reason you're being told to ignore the man behind the curtain.
May 19, 2025, 9:29 PM
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I honestly wish you the best as well. You are honest. I am honest. Neither one of us disguises or sugar coats what we believe.
God is loving and He is just.
The two create a paradox in human logic.
I think we both agree that all men have sinned. We just vastly disagree on what a “just” punishment for that sin is.
The fact I realize how terrible that punishment is humbles me to my core. It makes me love Him so much for saving me from that torment.
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110%er [3617]
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Re: Yep - there's a reason you're being told to ignore the man behind the curtain.
May 20, 2025, 12:09 PM
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The punishment doesn’t fit the crime.
“Sin” however you define it doesn’t warrant eternal torture.
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Re: Why many do not believe
May 16, 2025, 10:27 PM
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Because they aren't sheep and it's irrational to believe. You have to suspend all rational thinking which is tough.
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