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Single Payer Healthcare: The Reality
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Single Payer Healthcare: The Reality


Sep 2, 2015, 9:07 AM

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/423413/economics-good-intentions-don%27t-guarantee-good-results

There is a new cholesterol-control drug on the market, Repatha, which is enormously beneficial to people who suffer serious side effects from the statins commonly used to control cholesterol or who derive no benefit from statins.

Some 17 million Britons are potential beneficiaries of the drug, but they will not be able to use it, because the United Kingdom’s version of Sarah Palin’s death panel — which bears the pleasingly Orwellian name NICE, the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence — says it is too expensive.

The United Kingdom’s single-payer health-care system is effectively a monopoly, and not an especially effective one: Cardiovascular-disease mortality rates in the United Kingdom are nearly 40 percent higher than in the United States.

That’s not nice. And it isn’t what was supposed to happen.

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14K/yr?


Sep 2, 2015, 9:26 AM

How can they call that expensive?

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Re: Single Payer Healthcare: The Reality


Sep 2, 2015, 9:28 AM

The United States health care system is the most expensive in the world, but this report and prior editions consistently show the U.S. underperforms relative to other countries on most dimensions of performance. Among the 11 nations studied in this report—Australia, Canada, France, Germany, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, the United Kingdom, and the United States—the U.S. ranks last, as it did in the 2010, 2007, 2006, and 2004 editions of Mirror, Mirror. Most troubling, the U.S. fails to achieve better health outcomes than the other countries, and as shown in the earlier editions, the U.S. is last or near last on dimensions of access, efficiency, and equity. In this edition of Mirror, Mirror, the United Kingdom ranks first, followed closely by Switzerland.



http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2014/jun/mirror-mirror

2025 purple level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it, so that when men come to be undeceived, it is too late; the jest is over, and the tale hath had its effect: like a man, who hath thought of a good repartee when the discourse is changed, or the company parted; or like a physician, who hath found out an infallible medicine, after the patient is dead.
- Jonathan Swift


^^^^ Does not fit GOP narrative -***


Sep 2, 2015, 9:47 AM



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Britain is #1, but the people can't get the drug. I got it***


Sep 2, 2015, 10:29 AM [ in reply to Re: Single Payer Healthcare: The Reality ]



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You're hyperfocused on that one drug, because NR said so.***


Sep 2, 2015, 10:32 AM



2025 purple level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it, so that when men come to be undeceived, it is too late; the jest is over, and the tale hath had its effect: like a man, who hath thought of a good repartee when the discourse is changed, or the company parted; or like a physician, who hath found out an infallible medicine, after the patient is dead.
- Jonathan Swift


Cardio-Vasc mortality rate 40% higher than US. GB is #1***


Sep 2, 2015, 10:46 AM



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Let's see those actual numbers, CDef.***


Sep 2, 2015, 11:03 AM



2025 purple level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it, so that when men come to be undeceived, it is too late; the jest is over, and the tale hath had its effect: like a man, who hath thought of a good repartee when the discourse is changed, or the company parted; or like a physician, who hath found out an infallible medicine, after the patient is dead.
- Jonathan Swift


Read the link, spooneye.***


Sep 2, 2015, 11:42 AM



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No actual numbers. Try again.


Sep 2, 2015, 11:50 AM

It would be interesting to see, overall, how those numbers add up.

Or we can just rely on the National Review hit piece.

2025 purple level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it, so that when men come to be undeceived, it is too late; the jest is over, and the tale hath had its effect: like a man, who hath thought of a good repartee when the discourse is changed, or the company parted; or like a physician, who hath found out an infallible medicine, after the patient is dead.
- Jonathan Swift


If you are that interested, look it up.***


Sep 2, 2015, 1:14 PM



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No need.


Sep 2, 2015, 1:18 PM

Only wanted to confirm that you don't.

Best way to maintain your belief in every NR hit piece you read.

2025 purple level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it, so that when men come to be undeceived, it is too late; the jest is over, and the tale hath had its effect: like a man, who hath thought of a good repartee when the discourse is changed, or the company parted; or like a physician, who hath found out an infallible medicine, after the patient is dead.
- Jonathan Swift


The author may have used this one?


Sep 2, 2015, 4:47 PM

http://www.who.int/cardiovascular_diseases/en/cvd_atlas_29_world_data_table.pdf?ua=1

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Sweetness, I was only joking when I said I'd like to smash every tooth in your head.


Good find, but does not seem to support the US as healthier.***


Sep 3, 2015, 8:57 AM



2025 purple level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it, so that when men come to be undeceived, it is too late; the jest is over, and the tale hath had its effect: like a man, who hath thought of a good repartee when the discourse is changed, or the company parted; or like a physician, who hath found out an infallible medicine, after the patient is dead.
- Jonathan Swift


Relevant to the topic. I was just trying to help.


Sep 3, 2015, 10:48 AM

Single payer is a bad idea, in my view. I also think health insurance reform is a good idea, but the ACA is just bad law, and it exacerbated, rather than alleviated, the problems. I'm retired military, so it doesn't affect me that much.

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Sweetness, I was only joking when I said I'd like to smash every tooth in your head.


One experimental drug, when there are many others that


Sep 2, 2015, 10:33 AM [ in reply to Britain is #1, but the people can't get the drug. I got it*** ]

are approved for the same thing.

Experimental = not fully researched to determine efficacy. Sometimes these drugs pan out, other times they just pan.

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Re: Single Payer Healthcare: The Reality


Sep 2, 2015, 4:40 PM [ in reply to Re: Single Payer Healthcare: The Reality ]

That would be great if what they are comparing mattered. If you have a serious problem, you are better off here. I livd in he UK and got part of my care via the NhS and it is very third world. People from all over the world come here to be treated for serious illnesses for a reason.

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That is the reality, Lumbee.***


Sep 2, 2015, 5:09 PM



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Re: Single Payer Healthcare: The Reality


Sep 3, 2015, 8:59 AM [ in reply to Re: Single Payer Healthcare: The Reality ]

Your alleged experience in the UK is anecdotal at best, and certainly not more compelling than actual data.

2025 purple level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it, so that when men come to be undeceived, it is too late; the jest is over, and the tale hath had its effect: like a man, who hath thought of a good repartee when the discourse is changed, or the company parted; or like a physician, who hath found out an infallible medicine, after the patient is dead.
- Jonathan Swift


Data like the mortality rate 40% higher?***


Sep 3, 2015, 9:16 AM



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Yes, like that.


Sep 3, 2015, 10:12 AM

Unfortunately, you have yet to point to any data outside of your NR hit piece.

And of course we'd want to see all healthcare quality indicators, not just the single number cherry picked (or fabricated) by the NR.

2025 purple level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it, so that when men come to be undeceived, it is too late; the jest is over, and the tale hath had its effect: like a man, who hath thought of a good repartee when the discourse is changed, or the company parted; or like a physician, who hath found out an infallible medicine, after the patient is dead.
- Jonathan Swift


I'm with you on the need for data to support a claim...


Sep 3, 2015, 10:50 AM

...but National Review, while conservative, is a pedigreed, reputable publication.

tnet-military.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Sweetness, I was only joking when I said I'd like to smash every tooth in your head.


Re: I'm with you on the need for data to support a claim...


Sep 3, 2015, 11:30 AM

National Review, while conservative, is a pedigreed, reputable publication.

It would be more pedigreed and reputable if it cited sources for the statistics it relies on.

2025 purple level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it, so that when men come to be undeceived, it is too late; the jest is over, and the tale hath had its effect: like a man, who hath thought of a good repartee when the discourse is changed, or the company parted; or like a physician, who hath found out an infallible medicine, after the patient is dead.
- Jonathan Swift


Re: I'm with you on the need for data to support a claim...


Sep 3, 2015, 1:15 PM

Williamson is one of the more snarky commentators there, but you can assume his data are solid.

tnet-military.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Sweetness, I was only joking when I said I'd like to smash every tooth in your head.


Assume that the data is accurate and not cherry picked?


Sep 3, 2015, 1:17 PM

Nope. Not going to assume either.

2025 purple level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it, so that when men come to be undeceived, it is too late; the jest is over, and the tale hath had its effect: like a man, who hath thought of a good repartee when the discourse is changed, or the company parted; or like a physician, who hath found out an infallible medicine, after the patient is dead.
- Jonathan Swift


That's your prerogative.


Sep 3, 2015, 1:18 PM

Ain't America grand?

tnet-military.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Sweetness, I was only joking when I said I'd like to smash every tooth in your head.


Also...


Sep 3, 2015, 1:20 PM [ in reply to Assume that the data is accurate and not cherry picked? ]

...didn't you just post an article re: Dan Savage's take on this whole issue? Dan Savage wouldn't know solid data analysis if it raped him to death. He's an ideologue and a bigot.


Message was edited by: Ben_bull®
tnet-military.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Sweetness, I was only joking when I said I'd like to smash every tooth in your head.


Re: Also...


Sep 3, 2015, 1:40 PM

You can call him names, but I don't recall him conjuring up unsupported data, National Review-style.

2025 purple level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it, so that when men come to be undeceived, it is too late; the jest is over, and the tale hath had its effect: like a man, who hath thought of a good repartee when the discourse is changed, or the company parted; or like a physician, who hath found out an infallible medicine, after the patient is dead.
- Jonathan Swift


Ben_Bull, when liberals cannot engage, they attempt to


Sep 3, 2015, 2:28 PM [ in reply to Also... ]

discredit the poster, the article, the data, etc. It really isn't worth the effort. They will never let facts get in the way of their ideology, and single payer healthcare is the crown jewel of liberal ideology.

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Re: Ben_Bull, when liberals cannot engage, they attempt to


Sep 3, 2015, 3:38 PM

discredit the poster, the article, the data, etc.

Kinda like how you called one article a "NY Times hit piece"?

2025 purple level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it, so that when men come to be undeceived, it is too late; the jest is over, and the tale hath had its effect: like a man, who hath thought of a good repartee when the discourse is changed, or the company parted; or like a physician, who hath found out an infallible medicine, after the patient is dead.
- Jonathan Swift


It was. The "affordable housing" fiasco started


Sep 3, 2015, 4:42 PM

with Jimmy Carter. It hit warp speed under Bill Clinton. By the time Busch was in office it was done. Baked in. Inevitable. Yet, the article focused on Bush. Ridiculous.

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Re: Yes, like that.


Sep 3, 2015, 6:31 PM [ in reply to Yes, like that. ]

http://www.cdc.gov/cancer/dcpc/research/articles/concord-2.htm

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Re: Single Payer Healthcare: The Reality


Sep 3, 2015, 6:04 PM [ in reply to Re: Single Payer Healthcare: The Reality ]

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/mar/24/uk-cancer-survival-rates-trail-10-years-behind-those-in-european-countries


Public medicine in the UK stinks. http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/mar/24/uk-cancer-survival-rates-trail-10-years-behind-those-in-european-countries

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Re: Single Payer Healthcare: The Reality


Sep 3, 2015, 6:29 PM [ in reply to Re: Single Payer Healthcare: The Reality ]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2011/11/23/the-myth-of-americans-poor-life-expectancy/

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Spooneye?***


Sep 10, 2015, 10:33 AM



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