|
Replies: 27
| visibility 1
|
Rock Defender [63]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 17
Joined: 9/27/22
|
Why the ACC loyalty?
4
Apr 27, 2023, 1:48 PM
|
|
As the landscape of college athletics is changing more than it has ever been, it is looking like Clemson is going to make a move- probably to the SEC. To all of the Tigernetters, who want to stay in the ACC, why? If we don't make a move, we will be left in the dust and forced to pick up scraps from the what seems to be 2 major conferences. Not to mention that all the ACC cares about in the fist place is schools in North Carolina.
|
|
|
|
 |
CU Medallion [64517]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 88956
Joined: 3/27/01
|
As I said earlier...
5
5
Apr 27, 2023, 1:53 PM
|
|
does ANYONE, including Clemson, really have some firm unwavering everlasting bond to the ACC? I certainly don't think so.
Clemson has been a loyal member of the ACC since the conference's inception in 1953 but, frankly, it's long past time for Clemson to start prioritizing what's in its own best interests.
I can assure you, when it comes to self-preservation, the ACC will always opt for whatever is in the best interest of the league over what is in the best interest of the member institutions. That's how we ended up with this ridiculous GOR Agreement in the first place.
Here is the problem the ACC now faces. The league handcuffed itself and the member institutions with the unbelievably foolish and inequitable GOR Agreement. Because of that, they have placed the member schools in an unenviable and impaired position, and the league doesn't have the financial resources or bargaining power to recover from it. Consequently, the league members are now left with little choice, either individually or collectively (as the case may be), but to pursue other more stable and level/equitable options.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [24672]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14738
Joined: 10/12/08
|
Re: As I said earlier...
1
Apr 27, 2023, 2:37 PM
|
|
The only thing I would add is that it was all of the ACC (teams) members doing it to themselves. The ACC commish, could not sign a contract with ESPN or anyone else, or come up with the GOR, without it being voted on and approved by the members. So, all ACC member School's Presidents, BOT, AD's, and HC's were in on the deal. Now, they are looking at it with 20/20 hindsight and see that it sucked and the only way out for some who want to leave the bad deal is to dissolve the ACC. No one is coming to the rescue of CU and FSU. I am sure the powers that be, know that. Thus, the rescue is to dissolve the conference. The ACC cannot match the payout of the SEC or the BIG. It's all about the money.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3531]
TigerPulse: 94%
Posts: 2951
Joined: 9/17/22
|
Re: Why the ACC loyalty?
1
Apr 27, 2023, 2:03 PM
|
|
Dude I understand the Conference traditions and ties and all, but the ACC isn’t Clemson. I mean dang. When did it ever even matter what conference we’re in? It’s not like I ever truly cared about another team in the ACC or will in the SEC. I care about Clemson’s success, and sticking to culture and values as much as possible.
I don’t know what the ACC has got up their asse*s, but they need to just give it up by now. It’s like a bad arranged marriage that you can’t get out of.
Just get with FSU and Miami and a couple others, pay the ###* fee, and let’s get out! I never remembered people caring about what conference they’re in. Even people who are die hard, loyal, and actually have emotions about a team don’t give a rip about what conference they’re in truly. The only “caring” I do about a conference is in relevance to if that conference is good enough to support Clemson.
Let’s just get to where we’re going, and stop all this pondering like the ACC is going to be able to save itself or something. They’re the ones that screwed us over with the Grant of Rights, there’s no sympathy warranted here. There should be a clause or something about NIL. No one really knew the major effect of money in CFB in 2023 when they signed it, but a 20 year contract to anything is skeptical.
Message was edited by: ROYBus10®
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [24159]
TigerPulse: 94%
Posts: 16409
Joined: 8/6/02
|
Tell 'em coot. No one knows losing better than you.
Apr 27, 2023, 2:16 PM
|
|
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1511]
TigerPulse: 94%
Posts: 2315
Joined: 1/14/05
|
Re: Why the ACC loyalty?
Apr 27, 2023, 10:05 PM
[ in reply to Re: Why the ACC loyalty? ] |
|
I'm with you but sentimental at the same time. I've never been proud to be in the ACC. I suspect I'll not be proud when we're in the SEC. But there is something about the ACC I associate with home... an institution that means something about the south, something about South carolina and something about Clemson since it began and before I was born.
Had the ACC screwed itself? Sure looks like it. Any reason to remain with the sinking ship? No. But I can wish it were otherwise.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1035]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 2056
Joined: 4/7/22
|
Re: Why the ACC loyalty?
1
Apr 27, 2023, 2:16 PM
|
|
I agree that if the financial situation does not change, a move will be necessary. However, I would prefer to stay in the ACC if the TV contract can be renegotiated.
For one, Clemson has won 3 national championships in the ACC. Second, if you think the ACC has treated Clemson badly, just imagine how it will be in the SEC. Be prepared for getting zero benefit of the doubt from the referees, for example.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3212]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 1203
Joined: 5/8/03
|
Re: Why the ACC loyalty?
1
Apr 27, 2023, 2:34 PM
|
|
I agree that if the financial situation does not change, a move will be necessary. However, I would prefer to stay in the ACC if the TV contract can be renegotiated.
For one, Clemson has won 3 national championships in the ACC. Second, if you think the ACC has treated Clemson badly, just imagine how it will be in the SEC. Be prepared for getting zero benefit of the doubt from the referees, for example.
Tell me why ESPN would even think about paying more for the same product? It makes zero sense for them to come back to the negotiating table.
You only make a wild assumption with your second point.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1035]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 2056
Joined: 4/7/22
|
Re: Why the ACC loyalty?
Apr 27, 2023, 2:47 PM
|
|
The TV contract has what are called "look in" windows every 5 years that are built into the contract. The contract can be reevaluated during those windows.
If Clemson and Florida St. join the SEC, then the SEC is going to demand more money from ESPN. They won't add schools for nothing. Ditto if the Big Ten adds teams as well. It would cost ESPN more money either way.
With regards to the second part, there is nothing "wild" about. You are very naive if you think Alabama, Georgia, LSU, etc. are going to let Clemson and Florida St. waltz right in and be at the top of the pecking order. If you believe that, I have a bridge in New York to sell you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [24672]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14738
Joined: 10/12/08
|
Re: Why the ACC loyalty?
Apr 27, 2023, 5:52 PM
|
|
There are lots of bridges in NY. I am in the mkt. for one. If I greased the right palms, I could turn it into a toll bridge and make a fortune.
Which one do you have for sale and is it listed with Spud? I would only trust Spud to sell me a bridge or ocean front property in Az.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [8515]
TigerPulse: 49%
Posts: 11469
Joined: 9/9/06
|
Re: Why the ACC loyalty?
1
2
Apr 27, 2023, 2:17 PM
|
|
History, tradition, rivals and because we are a big deal in ACC football and we would be a middle size deal anywhere else. Pretty simple.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [64517]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 88956
Joined: 3/27/01
|
I couldn't disagree more....
5
5
Apr 27, 2023, 2:24 PM
|
|
Clemson is a big deal in football on a national level. The school's affiliation with the ACC has absolutely nothing to do with that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6857]
TigerPulse: 95%
Posts: 6498
Joined: 10/7/07
|
Well Valley Girl is a Coot, so......
3
Apr 27, 2023, 2:29 PM
|
|
Take her posts with a grade of slaw.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [10798]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12653
Joined: 9/28/10
|
Re: Well Valley Girl is a Coot, so......
1
Apr 27, 2023, 2:32 PM
|
|
lol! When Valley uses "we" that means the Coots.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1035]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 2056
Joined: 4/7/22
|
Re: I couldn't disagree more....
Apr 27, 2023, 2:49 PM
[ in reply to I couldn't disagree more.... ] |
|
Not as big a deal as Alabama, Georgia and the like. For example, see how quick they are to bury us after a down year or two, but how quick they are to boost up Tennessee after one good year.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16797]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4570
Joined: 1/31/16
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6460]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10109
Joined: 11/2/03
|
Re: Why the ACC loyalty?
1
Apr 27, 2023, 4:55 PM
|
|
O don't have any Idea. I have been saying ACC football is sub par to SEC football for over 10 years. Until recently, got called coot for stating the obvious.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6153]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4043
Joined: 2/15/11
|
The extra punitive probation year in 1982 sealed it for me
5
5
Apr 27, 2023, 5:09 PM
|
|
Even though I’ve been a hard core follower of Clemson since 1957, I never quite understood exactly what being in th ACC did for Clemson.
We were a charter member of the conference which was formed specifically with FOOTBALL in mind, but the powers that be in North Carolina turned it into a basketball-centric league early on.
In the 196Os the ACC decided to totally wreck the ACCs ability to compete with the SEC for players by instituting the ivory tower inspired “800 Rule” sentencing Clemson to a decade or more of losing the best players from the state to UGA and elsewhere.
Then in 1982, after Clemson recovered and began to prosper, they piled on the NCAAs probation with an unwarranted and vindictive extra year.
I have spent most of my adult life wishing that Clemson could kiss the ACC goodbye. Nothing would make me happier than to see the ACC implode as Clemson rides happily off into the sunset.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [24672]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14738
Joined: 10/12/08
|
Re: The extra punitive probation year in 1982 sealed it for me
Apr 27, 2023, 5:54 PM
|
|
Preach it!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [16186]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 8524
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: Why the ACC loyalty?
4
Apr 27, 2023, 9:26 PM
|
|
I suspect that with all the conference movement Clemson will one day be in another league. I do not expect that to result in much if any good for Clemson, and I am a Clemson fan, not a fan of this or that league.
1. Most of the teams in the SEC are cannon fodder for the limited number of big boy teams in that league. I cannot tell that being in the SEC has ever done much of anything for the majority of teams in the league. Clemson is not in the SEC and has unquestionably fielded better and more successful football teams on a national scale than most SEC teams.
2. South Carolina and Arkansas have been in the SEC for 30 years and I cannot see that their programs are any better for it.
3. The rivalries in the SEC will not change when and if Miami, FSU, Clemson and whomever joins that league. The important rivalries in the Big10 will not change in the future no matter who joins that league. Nebraska and Penn State were pretty big names in college football before joining the Big10. To this day no one in the Big 10 gives a hoot about playing those teams just as no one in the SEC gives a hoot about playing SC or Arkansas.
4. 9 of the teams in the SEC are in the Central Time Zone. Just how late at night do you like to attend or just watch a college football game?
5. The SEC is governed from the top down. Every team must kowtow to the league office. Same thing happens in the Big Ten. If anyone thinks that the Big 10 or SEC offices do not bend over backward to the no more than four teams in each league, then you have not been paying attention. The SEC office is thinking about taking a home game away from any team whose fans rush the field after a big win. The Big 10 office almost cancelled a football season over Covid. The SEC said SC could not play Clemson, Florida could not play FSU, Ga could not play Ga Tech. Did those SEC schools have anything to say about it? If you hated the years when 4 teams from NC ran the ACC, you are going to hate being in the SEC or the Big 10.
6. I am a Clemson fan, not an ACC fan. I have never been happy when UNC or Duke, or FSU or any other team won any sort of national championship. The SEC practice of everyone feeling great when Bama or Georgia or LSU or Florida wins a title seems a queer tradition to me.
7. In lieu of Clemson joining another league for and only for a bigger payday, I'd much rather see Miami, FSU, and VA Tech all join Clemson at the top of the world of college football. Those teams have been very good in the almost modern era. I don't like those teams, but I would rather see them get stronger and make our present league a lot better. I like road trips less than half a continent away.
8. Yep, I am old school. I like our traditional lifetime rivals. I like it that we have dominated our league football championships and been the big guy on the block for most of my life. My Tigers have won 3 National Titles in the modern era. How many teams in any other league have won more than we have in the modern era? Not many.
Go Tigers!!
Message was edited by: Harley®
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3462]
TigerPulse: 78%
Posts: 5156
Joined: 9/12/10
|
Harley
1
Apr 27, 2023, 10:32 PM
|
|
Harley you makes some very good points, but I must respectfully disagree. To your points....
1. Clemson is the exception, not the rule. Truth is the teams in the SEC are much better than everyone in the ACC except for Clemson and maybe FSU. And the ACC has never helped anyone. Look at Miami. Miami was probably the biggest name in college football winning a slew of Natty's, then joined the ACC and within a few years became mediocre. Boston College and VT degreased as well. Teams definitely get worse after joining the ACC.
2. South Carolina hasn't done much since being in the SEC. True. But when have they ever done much?
Arkansas is actually pretty good.
3. Rivals are going to change...with the SEC expanding to 9 or maybe 10 conference game schedule, say goodbye to ever playing Georgia in regular season again. Even the South Carolina game may be in jeopardy.
4. I'll give you this one.
5. "Sigh" you act as if Tobacco road doesn't control the ACC.
6. I for one will never chant SEC SEC
7. Those teams will never improve with the lack of money in the ACC. And to me I'd rather play Auburn and Kentucky than boring NC State and Wake.
8. I like our traditional lifetime rivals too. South Carolina. Georgia. Auburn. Only good rival we'd lose would be FSU.. and they will likely leave too.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3462]
TigerPulse: 78%
Posts: 5156
Joined: 9/12/10
|
List
1
Apr 27, 2023, 10:11 PM
|
|
Here's the list of all the things the ACC has done for Clemson............
Thank you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [51787]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 22949
Joined: 10/10/11
|
Re: List
1
Apr 27, 2023, 10:16 PM
|
|
You forgot: added a year to NCAA probation in the '80s.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3462]
TigerPulse: 78%
Posts: 5156
Joined: 9/12/10
|
Tigerzzroar I definitely haven't forgotten that
Apr 27, 2023, 10:33 PM
|
|
We should have left then.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [8008]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 7958
Joined: 6/30/00
|
Re: Why the ACC loyalty?
Apr 27, 2023, 10:23 PM
|
|
Seems to be three groups…
1. Some people just don’t like change. They talk about tradition and rivalries, but they just don’t want anything different.
2. Then there’s the group that are afraid of the SEC. They have bought into their coot friends belief that the only reason Clemson wins NCs is because of the weak ACC.
3. And lastly, some see what Clemson has accomplished in the current college football structure and see no need to change. Unfortunately, they are either unaware or just don’t want to acknowledge the drastic changes taking place that will require Clemson to make a conference move or become irrelevant.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6857]
TigerPulse: 95%
Posts: 6498
Joined: 10/7/07
|
Pretty accurate list there
Apr 28, 2023, 7:53 AM
|
|
The first group, yes, those exist, but frankly Im not entirely sure why unless they are basketball fans. The overwhelming majority of the league is sub-par at best in football with tiny stadiums and unengaging fans from a football aspect. Not sure why those "traditions and rivalries" are so meaningful.
The second group are not really football fans. They are just casual "Clemson" fans or coots in disguise. At minimum we would be higher in the pecking order than the coots as we run a train on those losers virtually annually. We have more than help our own against most of Then the top of the league for the most part of modern history as well.
100% agree on part 3. NIL, portal, and TV contracts have deemed the past irrelevant. There is no way you can continue to compete long term making 35 million when your rivals make 80+ million. Shouldnt take a genius to understand that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2217]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 5868
Joined: 1/28/12
|
the acc is the only conference to punish a
2
Apr 28, 2023, 4:21 AM
|
|
school by adding additional probation to a school on top of ncaa sanctions. thats when a North Carolina lead committee added a yr. of probation and band from TV after our 1st NC with FDanny Ford.Later it was discovered they were cheating as much as us
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [3728]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 4857
Joined: 11/4/03
|
That move by Maryland looks like absolutely more and more…
1
Apr 28, 2023, 6:32 AM
|
|
…clairvoyant and pure genius for every passing year.
“Necessity is the mother of invention.”
The insolvency of the University of Maryland’s athletic program, led them straight into the most lucrative financial position you could imagine.
At the time, I thought the Terps were out of their minds for leaving the ACC.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 27
| visibility 1
|
|
|
50
