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Scout Team [182]
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Brad Brownell and Dabo Swinney
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Dec 7, 2023, 12:40 PM
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I've spent some time with both of them - more time with Brad and his family than with the Swinney's.
Both men are exactly what you see on TV. Brad is a little midwestern; Dabo is exciting bordering on rah-rah.
And both men have been perfect for Clemson in the time that they've been here.
Do I wish we had a much better basketball team, more consistently? Yep.
Do I understand that virtually all resources have gotten funneled into Football vs. Bball? Yep.
Both men are high-character dudes that try and recruit high-character talent.
Now, I've wanted Brad gone for a while - I have wanted a flashier hire that's a BBall Dabo.
But the truth is (see Will Wade) those guys are all smoke and mirrors and are bad for a high-caliber place like Clemson.
You gotta build the program the right way. Brad has done that (especially with the limited resources he's been given).
---
As a quick aside: have y'all noticed when we under-deliver on the football field we end up having a good basketball season?
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TigerNet Elite [71636]
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Re: Brad Brownell and Dabo Swinney
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Dec 7, 2023, 12:45 PM
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"Winning" cannot be created or destroyed - only converted from one form of "winning" to another.
So there always has to be losing to go along with winning. It's the law...
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TigerNet Elite [71636]
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Re: Brad Brownell and Dabo Swinney
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Dec 7, 2023, 12:51 PM
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Even in cootlumbia where the football team sucks... the women's basketball team always wins.
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Paw Master [17204]
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Re: Brad Brownell and Dabo Swinney
Dec 7, 2023, 1:22 PM
[ in reply to Re: Brad Brownell and Dabo Swinney ] |
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I'm sure Brad is a nice guy but he needs someone to coach up his personality. He needs to become more visible off the court, like Dabo is.
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Tiger Titan [50790]
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No he doesn't.***
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Dec 7, 2023, 1:57 PM
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Orange Blooded [2203]
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Re: Brad Brownell and Dabo Swinney
Dec 7, 2023, 3:16 PM
[ in reply to Re: Brad Brownell and Dabo Swinney ] |
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The man is near the top of his profession and you're critiquing his personality. You poor pitiful man
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Paw Master [17204]
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Re: Brad Brownell and Dabo Swinney
Dec 7, 2023, 1:22 PM
[ in reply to Re: Brad Brownell and Dabo Swinney ] |
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I'm sure Brad is a nice guy but he needs someone to coach up his personality. He needs to become more visible off the court, like Dabo is.
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All-In [10208]
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Re: Brad Brownell and Dabo Swinney
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Dec 7, 2023, 12:46 PM
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The main thing I wish Brad had in common with Dabo was his record and amount of championships won....everything else is secondary
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Valley Legend [12953]
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Re: Brad Brownell and Dabo Swinney
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Dec 7, 2023, 12:54 PM
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The main thing I wish Brad had in common with Dabo was his record and amount of championships won....everything else is secondary
Clemson has a rich history of championships in Football and not so much in basketball.
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TigerNet Elite [71636]
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Re: Brad Brownell and Dabo Swinney
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Dec 7, 2023, 12:55 PM
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You mean "not at all" in basketball. Hopefully that changes this year.
Go Tigers!!!
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Orange Blooded [2520]
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Re: Brad Brownell and Dabo Swinney
Dec 7, 2023, 1:01 PM
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Yes with the BB players we have Clemson should make a run as long as Brad and the coaches get the most out of them.
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All-In [10208]
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Re: Brad Brownell and Dabo Swinney
Dec 7, 2023, 12:59 PM
[ in reply to Re: Brad Brownell and Dabo Swinney ] |
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I know...that is why I said I wish Brad had that in common with Dabo. Unfortunately he does not and everything else they may or may not have in common doesn't matter
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Playmaker [370]
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Brad has had 13 years though. He hasnt built a sustainable program.
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Dec 7, 2023, 1:09 PM
[ in reply to Re: Brad Brownell and Dabo Swinney ] |
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Maybe some success (hopefully) in year 14 will help Brad get players who can overcome his data backed coaching history. Coaching has been the issue with lack of accomplishments, nothing else. Coaches have long achieved more with less than Brad has. Maybe the light has come on for him?
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110%er [3696]
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Re: Brad has had 13 years though. He hasnt built a sustainable program.
Dec 7, 2023, 1:20 PM
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Nope. Average recruiting had gotten us average results. Recruiting has been on a different level since the facility upgrades and it's showing in on court performance?
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Playmaker [370]
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Yeah ok, so why did we lose to Morehead at home?***
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Dec 7, 2023, 1:21 PM
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Tiger Titan [50790]
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We had a bad game. It happens in college basketball.
Dec 7, 2023, 1:53 PM
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It's ridiculous that you and others continue to harp on that one game as some sort of judgment against him as a coach.
You focus on that one game and completely overlook the fact that we finished third in the ACC and set numerous records last year. I'm not surprised though, because that's what people who want to bash the program do.
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Orange Elite [5510]
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Re: We had a bad game. It happens in college basketball.
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Dec 7, 2023, 2:42 PM
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It's not that ONE game.
NET 235 South Carolina
NET 269 Loyola Chicago
NET 314 Louisville
Those are what kept us out of the Tournament.
And then, all the while crying about getting "snubbed",
NET 219 Morehead St.
Which basically proved the NCAA committee had a pretty good measure of what the team was last year. They were a team that won a lot of games playing the bottom 5 teams in the ACC (except #314 Louisville), but lost to #235 SCAR, #269 Loyola-Chicago, #314 Louisville...
So far this year, so good. We didn't lose to
NET #214 Winthrop
NET #221 UAB
NET #125 Davidson (although the 20-2 start was not something I hope to repeat)
NET #129 Boise State
NET #326 Alcorn State
NET #29 (BIG change from last year)
The SCAR win and even the Boise St and Davidson wins are actually pretty good wins, at this point in time.
We're going to have to avoid dropping games to
#198 Radford
#251 Queens
Beating NET #45 TCU and NET #62 Memphis would be important wins to keep us in line for the NCAA tournament, but not hyper-critical, but losing to Radford or Queens would be a huge dent in that goal.
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Tiger Titan [50790]
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Brad's coaching history is one of good player development
Dec 7, 2023, 1:51 PM
[ in reply to Brad has had 13 years though. He hasnt built a sustainable program. ] |
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and an ability to get tremendous effort out of his players, resulting in a program that wins more than it should based on our program history and level of investment from the administration and fans.
That is why he's respected in the coaching industry, and why he is still our coach.
If you're going to hold coaches solely responsible for results, then they should have every want and need provided in order to give them every opportunity to succeed. Brad hasn't had that.
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Tiger Titan [50790]
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And I wish Brad had Dabo's level of support from the athletic department
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Dec 7, 2023, 1:19 PM
[ in reply to Re: Brad Brownell and Dabo Swinney ] |
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and fans.
I also wish Brad had Dabo's relatively easy ACC schedule.
It's nice being a football school in a conference filled with basketball schools when it comes to football. For basketball, not so much.
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Playmaker [370]
TigerPulse: 78%
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Schedule ?? lol, thats a new excuse. Add it to the played out list.
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Dec 7, 2023, 1:25 PM
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In case you haven’t noticed, the ACC hasn’t been the premier conference for years.
That and the issue hasn’t been losing to strong ACC teams. It’s the inexplicable losses not at all related to talent. It’s coaching.
Maybe Brad can accomplish something meaningful for the 2nd time in 14 years. Let’s go Tigers!
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Tiger Titan [50790]
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It's not an excuse.
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Dec 7, 2023, 1:56 PM
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Brad's doing just fine against that ACC schedule, thank you very much.
The point is that Clemson, as a football school, has a tremendous advantage over most other schools in the conference that aren't football schools, don't have the football history we do, and don't spend the money on football that we do.
In contrast, Clemson basketball is arguably the worst basketball program in the history of the ACC. We de-emphasize basketball historically, which is in stark contrast to most other ACC schools who emphasize it. Not surprisingly, those schools also spend a lot more than we do on basketball and have better fan support too.
This isn't complicated.
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Orange Elite [5510]
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CU Medallion [18470]
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Orange Immortal [63472]
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Re: Brad Brownell and Dabo Swinney
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Dec 7, 2023, 1:04 PM
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The only thing I would dispute is the funnel of funds. Football is king but I can't think of anything that Brad asked for and wasn't made available. As soon as he stepped onto campus, plans were made to update and upgrade bball. In my opinion, not facts. Now, were said funds dispersed correctly, I can't say.
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Playmaker [370]
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The basketball program has plenty of money
Dec 7, 2023, 1:05 PM
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Money is not why we’ve wandered the wilderness for years
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Tiger Titan [50790]
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What was your previous TNet username?
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Dec 7, 2023, 2:07 PM
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I recognize your posting style and anti-basketball sentiments.
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Top TigerNet [32003]
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Re: What was your previous TNet username?
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Dec 7, 2023, 3:16 PM
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I recognize your posting style and anti-basketball sentiments.
And you don't post anti dabo/football posts?....
Judge Keller®
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Tiger Titan [50790]
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Brad was told no a lot by our administration.
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Dec 7, 2023, 2:06 PM
[ in reply to Re: Brad Brownell and Dabo Swinney ] |
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As you know, Clemson is near the bottom of the ACC when it comes to spending money on the men's basketball program. That's based on yearly program expenditures.
The new arena didn't happen nearly as quickly as it should've. In fact, Brad was told that he would need to meet with potential donors to sell the vision. He had very little help from the athletic department on that. He worked tirelessly to make it happen.
Unfortunately, it happened in 2016, after he had been here over 5 years.
He also asked for an increased budget for assistant coaches and support staff for years before it was approved. This allowed him to bring on someone like Billy Donlon.
The increased budget for assistants should also help in retaining key assistants, rather than losing them to schools who are willing to pay more (e.g., Goins to Boston College, Reynolds-Dean to Georgia).
It's been a huge grind to get to this point. Thankfully, Neff gets it and we should see continued improved support for basketball.
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CU Medallion [18470]
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Re: Brad was told no a lot by our administration.
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Dec 7, 2023, 2:18 PM
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Its weird that you’re still lying about Brad’s backstory even as he as ranked and undefeated.
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Playmaker [370]
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Basketball has more money than 75% of the country.
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Dec 7, 2023, 1:04 PM
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Money and resources have never been a problem with basketball. Winning is what attracts players most.
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Clemson Conqueror [11405]
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Which comes first? The chicken or the egg??***
Dec 7, 2023, 1:10 PM
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Playmaker [370]
TigerPulse: 78%
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Not sure I understand ?
Dec 7, 2023, 1:13 PM
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We’ve had resources for Brads entire tenure. He’s in the top 40 salaries in the country, and he has top notch facilities all around him. The egg has been there. Need to see some chickens immediately or get a new rooster.
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Playmaker [370]
TigerPulse: 78%
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Please stop with the resources nonsense.
Dec 7, 2023, 1:11 PM
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X’s and O’s aren’t governed by “resources”.
A good coach wins, period.
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Tiger Titan [50790]
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Brad does win.
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Dec 7, 2023, 2:08 PM
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He's our all-time winningest basketball coach.
His ACC winning percentage is the best in program history.
He set a record last year for ACC wins in a season.
LOL at you portraying him as someone who doesn't win.
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Orange Elite [5510]
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Re: Brad does win.
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Dec 7, 2023, 3:11 PM
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He's also the all-time losingest coach in history.
His record for ACC wins came in a 15-team league, playing 20 games per season (14-6 is .700). Cliff Ellis's 10-win season was a 14-game ACC season (10-4 is .714).
CBB's ACC winning percentage is better than others, I'll grant you that. But it's 1 game above .500 (118-117, .502), including the win over Pitt last week. He's had 5 losing seasons, 6 winning seasons, and 2 .500 seasons. His teams came in 3rd twice (high water mark) but also came in 12th, 11th, 10th, and 9th twice. Average finish 7.5th.
By comparison, Purnell was 52-60 (.446) in 7 years. Barnes was 28-36 (.438) in 4 years. Barnes and Purnell's ACC schedule was 16 games per year and balanced. CBB plays 20 games per year, unbalanced, e.g., only played the top 4 teams in the ACC once each.
Brownell is winning less than 1 more game per year, on average, than Purnell and essentially exactly 1 game more per year than Barnes. That is, if Purnell had won 4 more games in his 7 years, his record would have been 56-56 (.500) and if Barnes had won 4 more games in his 4 years, he would been at 32-32 (.500).
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Paw Master [16691]
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I think it's inaccurate to say that "virtually all" the resources have been
Dec 7, 2023, 2:52 PM
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funneled into football instead of basketball. Of course football is going to get the lions share. It's much bigger...it brings in considerably more revenue...and it's significantly more successful. But we spent a boat-load of money renovating Littlejohn in the mid-2010s and I think that followed on the heels of another renovation about a decade before. We've put money into the program. Maybe not as much as you want...it never is...but not nothing. Probably more than Florida Atlantic and James Madison? I don't know.
Kind of moot for the moment. The man's team is sitting at 8-0 with a win over a ranked Bama and a win against the arch-rival. He truly, truly is in a position to make some noise in the ACC and hopefully the post-season. If he does, great. If he doesn't, then the discussion about a change could come back up.
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Replies: 35
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