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Replies: 16
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Rock Defender [59]
TigerPulse: 86%
6
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Time for a Tariff Dividend
Apr 4, 2025, 1:07 PM
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I propose a Tariff Dividend, say $5000/family similar to COVID relief chec,k in anticipation of Tariffs that is being paid by China, EU, India, Canada, ... lets not forget Heard Island.
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All-Pro [785]
TigerPulse: 92%
22
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I'd just a full return on the social security
Apr 4, 2025, 1:36 PM
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That I started paying back in 74. That would be a nice place to start.
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Clemson Sports Icon [52218]
TigerPulse: 100%
59
Posts: 33226
Joined: 2015
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Or, do like an actual fiscal conservative and pay down the debt***
Apr 4, 2025, 1:48 PM
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Rock Defender [59]
TigerPulse: 86%
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Re: Or, do like an actual fiscal conservative and pay down the debt***
Apr 4, 2025, 2:05 PM
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Old enough to remember when there was an actual surplus. True conservative "Dubya" was so concerned about paying down the debt that it would destabilize the bond market, so he did the next best thing - cut taxes for the wealthy.
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CU Medallion [20786]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 18722
Joined: 2012
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Re: Or, do like an actual fiscal conservative and pay down the debt***
Apr 4, 2025, 2:28 PM
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Old enough to remember when there was an actual surplus.
1998-2001 William Jefferson Clinton
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Campus Hero [14098]
TigerPulse: 100%
48
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The 2017 tax cuts passed in Trumps last admin expire this year
1
Apr 4, 2025, 2:34 PM
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It’s gonna cost 7 TRILLION dollars to renew them. Yeah that’s 4 commas and 12 zeros. That’s the reason he’s pushing tariffs; they’re sales taxes the admin is using to offset that shortfall. Don’t be fooled into thinking this is anything else.
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Orange Blooded [2451]
TigerPulse: 95%
32
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Re: The 2017 tax cuts passed in Trumps last admin expire this year
Apr 4, 2025, 11:29 PM
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If that’s his plan, that’s a really bad plan.
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Ultimate Tiger [34913]
TigerPulse: 100%
56
Posts: 39051
Joined: 2003
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Aside from that figure being based on static modeling that...
Apr 5, 2025, 8:45 AM
[ in reply to The 2017 tax cuts passed in Trumps last admin expire this year ] |
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Has never been accurate...tax cuts aren't a "cost". A cost is when something is spent. Now, you can claim a tax cut reduces revenue that would have otherwise been there.
The static modeling the CBO uses doesn't account for tax increase/decrease impact on GDP growth. That's one of the reasons why the estimate given in 2017 missed revenue impact by over $1T.
If the tax plan is extended, tax rates stay the same as they are now. With current revenue, if spending was at roughly 2019 levels we'd essentially have a balanced budget.
We have a massive spending problem and not a revenue problem.
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Associate AD [1095]
TigerPulse: 78%
25
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Re: Aside from that figure being based on static modeling that...
Apr 5, 2025, 10:40 AM
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We spent 26% more than revenue in 2019 (4.4T spending over 3.5T revenue). In 2024, the net is 37% more (6.75T spending over 4.92T revenue). But:
Discretionary spending (defense is always about 50% of this)
2024: 1.8T (1.37T in 2015, 1.46T in 2019)
2023: 1.7T (1.32T in 2015)
2022: 1.7T (1.37T in 2015)
2021: 1.6T (1.40T in 2015)
2020: 1.6T (1.48T in 2015)
2019: 1.3T (1.21T in 2015, 1.30T in 2019)
2018: 1.3T (1.23T in 2015)
2017: 1.2T (1.17T in 2015)
2016: 1.2T (1.19T in 2015)
2015: 1.2T
In inflation-adjusted dollars, discretionary spending for 2024 is only 160B more than it was in 2019, and only 2.3% of total spending. You can balance the budget without more revenue only if you cut all discretionary spending, including all defense spending). None of the GOP plans work unless they cut mandatory spending and entitlements. Those IRS projections are that DOGE chaos will cost 0.5T in revenue just this FY, around 100x any real savings the incels have found, so there's that too.
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Ultimate Tiger [34913]
TigerPulse: 100%
56
Posts: 39051
Joined: 2003
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We have to have entitlement reform too, drastic change in the....
Apr 5, 2025, 11:54 AM
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Scope of the federal government, and when rates drop (if they do anytime soon given inflation coming from tariffs) interest payments (0.8T now) will drop.
The bottom line is we have to reform gov scope and spending levels. We are not going to be able to tax ourselves out of this mess.
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Orange Elite [5417]
TigerPulse: 44%
38
Posts: 17564
Joined: 2005
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We are watching Conservative Ideology ruin the country right now
Apr 5, 2025, 12:18 PM
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probably time to try the other way too see if increased taxation on the rich works out better.
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Ultimate Tiger [34913]
TigerPulse: 100%
56
Posts: 39051
Joined: 2003
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What specific ideology is ruining the country right now?***
Apr 5, 2025, 2:13 PM
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Associate AD [1095]
TigerPulse: 78%
25
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Re: What specific ideology is ruining the country right now?***
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Apr 5, 2025, 4:09 PM
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Supply side economics. Lower tax rates for the wealthy, they invest the saved money in their businesses and hire more people, who then pay more taxes along with the wealthy who make even more money, so then net tax income increases. A drunk idiot explained it on a cocktail napkin to Ron Reagan, it stuck, and some of them just can't let go. No matter how many times it proves to be a completely wrong theory.
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Ultimate Tiger [34913]
TigerPulse: 100%
56
Posts: 39051
Joined: 2003
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Well, you're wrong and here are but a few reasons why...
Apr 5, 2025, 7:20 PM
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We've never had tax cuts just for the wealthy (that is what is implied below). These arguments are always tough because the sheer number of moving parts and variables. But I believe there clear correlation between pro-growth tax and regulation policies over the last 40 yrs and the actual growth in our GDP. There aren't points in time that the US economy hasn't been the strongest/among the strongest since Reagan's term. Even up to the last 2 weeks, the US economy was the envy of the world...near full employment, soft landing and 2-3% GDP growth and strong forecast, real wage growth and so on.
Take a look at the federal revenue after the last tax cut...most importantly corporate revenue after a fairly substantial cut (which was the permanent part thank goodness).
Supply side economics, simply put says less regulation and lower taxes leads to growth which can also lead to compatible or more gov tax revenue over the medium term.
Can you point to some clear data that shows that higher taxes and more regulation leads to measurable growth?
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Associate AD [1095]
TigerPulse: 78%
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Re: Well, you're wrong and here are but a few reasons why...
Apr 5, 2025, 10:28 PM
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There's a bump in corporate income tax after 2017 because corps repatriated some big sums of accumulated money to take advantage of the reduced tax rate. The best real growth in my adult life was the mid-90s, after tax increases from Bush and Clinton along with spending cuts and a big reduction in the federal workforce helped balance the budget. Supply side is a myth. Corporate practices are SO much different now than when Reagan bought the Laffer curve BS. For one, in that day, corporate profits were almost always either reinvested in the company or distributed as dividends, not for stock buybacks. I absolutely hate stock buybacks, so that puts me at odds with Buffet again.
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Associate AD [1095]
TigerPulse: 78%
25
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Re: We have to have entitlement reform too, drastic change in the....
Apr 5, 2025, 2:33 PM
[ in reply to We have to have entitlement reform too, drastic change in the.... ] |
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They raise interest rates to curb normal inflation, not the inverse.
For SS and Medicare, they have to pay that out because we have paid a ton into that system over the years. If they cut Medicaid, it means lots of hospitals and nursing homes in red state as well as blue get shut down. They could cut a LOT of defense spending and get the same M&S value by reducing the number of of suppliers, but then a LOT of small businesses would shutter. They have to raise taxes eventually. There isn't any real alternative. This whole trainwreck has always been avoidable, but it was directly planned by the GOP since Bush II and Trump has accelerated it.
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Ultimate Tiger [34913]
TigerPulse: 100%
56
Posts: 39051
Joined: 2003
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On rates, I know...you read what I wrote wrong***
Apr 5, 2025, 3:28 PM
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