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National Champion [7838]
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Recruiting Rankings
5
13
5
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Apr 18, 2023, 11:01 AM
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2018:
Clemson - 7th
FSU - 11th
UofSC - 18th
2019:
Clemson - 10th
FSU - 18th
UofSC - 21st
2020:
Clemson - 3rd
FSU - 22nd
UofSC - 19th
2021:
Clemson - 5th
FSU - 23rd
UofSC - 80th
2022:
Clemson - 14th
FSU - 19th
UofSC - 24th
2023:
Clemson - 15th
FSU - 16th
UofSC - 17th
2024:
Clemson - 20th
FSU - 5th
UofSC - 11th
The trends are obvious. I think it's time for Dabo to make some changes on the recruiting front. FSU and South Carolina have a ton of momentum. Clemson is struggling to land elite talent compared to before. We are clearly regressing in recruiting. This class feels like the most important in recent history. June 2nd is such a big weekend for us. We simply cannot miss on these recruits for this class. We've only dished out 57 offers. Offering kids late in the NIL is leading to us signing low level recruits with barely any P5 offers.
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Clemson Sports Icon [56142]
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National Champion [7838]
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
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5
Apr 18, 2023, 11:10 AM
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He looks like a Clemson lock. Everything comes down to June 2nd though. We will have some big time recruits on campus for their official visits. All of them are also going on officials to programs like Georgia, Alabama, and Ohio State. We have been losing a lot more to them recently. We have to put a stop to that with this class.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [101355]
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Game Changer [1801]
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
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Apr 18, 2023, 11:15 AM
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Particularly instate national recruits—
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All-In [10404]
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
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Apr 18, 2023, 12:29 PM
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Which in-state national recruits, the one's that typically don't pan out at USuCk?
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National Champion [7838]
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
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Apr 18, 2023, 1:31 PM
[ in reply to Re: Recruiting Rankings ] |
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I don't know how much in-state battles really matter. It seems like 90% of the kids already have their minds made up.
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110%er [6166]
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It’s always been that way … and always will be.
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Apr 19, 2023, 7:40 PM
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There are rare exceptions, but generally the rule applies.
Grow up a Tiger or a Gamecock … sign with that team if you’re offered.
Guys like XT are anomalies. He had to leave the state for IMG to get away from the family/peer pressure to go to SCAR.
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All-In [10404]
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
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Apr 18, 2023, 11:21 AM
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The only thing more meaningless than 2024 team recruiting rankings in March/April, is a 2024 NFL mock draft.
BTW, where are you getting those rankings?
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National Champion [7838]
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
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Apr 18, 2023, 1:35 PM
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247 composite
But I don't think current rankings are meaningless, especially for us. We don't offer many kids. We're only at 57 right now. And lately, we've been forced to sign low level recruits with very few offers late in the process after missing on our top targets. NIL has expedited recruiting. Kids are committing earlier and earlier. Long gone are the days where we offer Trenton Simpson and Travis Etienne a week before signing day and still land them. Those type of recruits will be committed elsewhere, probably with NIL deals as well.
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All-In [10404]
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
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Apr 18, 2023, 1:48 PM
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I beg to differ. Team Recruiting rankings in the March/April are meaningless.
You've state several times that recruits are deciding earlier. Well trends as you describe it proves the opposite. Hell as of right now 163 of the Rivals 250 is undecided. Keep spreading your false narrative as facts.
When you first started posting about recruiting you made some sense. Now the more you post about recruiting, the more you show you don't know jack ####.
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National Champion [7838]
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
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Apr 18, 2023, 2:06 PM
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I just explained myself. It matters for Clemson because we offer so few kids. When we miss on them late in the process, most of the other high level recruits (that we don't offer) are already committed elsewhere. That's why Clemson scrambles to find low level recruits late in the class. I'll give you examples.
1. RBs last year. Clemson missed on Cedric Baxter, Justice Haynes, Richard Young, Jeremiah Cobb, and CJ Johnson. We offered Jamarion Wilcox late, he signed with Kentucky. We ended up with Jarvis Green and Jamarius Haynes, 2 low level RB recruits.
2. WRs last year. We missed on Tyler Williams and Nathaniel Joseph. We ended up having to offer Tyler Brown and Misun Kelley late, 2 low level WR recruits.
3. RBs in 2022. We missed on Emmanuel Henderson, Branson Robinson, and Trevor Etienne. We offered Andrew Paul late, he signed with Georgia. We ended up with Keith Adams Jr, a low level 3 star recruit.
4. TEs in 2022. We missed on Jake Johnson, Oscar Delp and Jaleel Skinner. We ended up with Josh Sapp, a low level 3 star recruit.
5. DL in 2022. We missed on everybody and ended up with Jaheim Lawson, a low level 3 star recruit.
6. Daylen Everrette, Keon Sabb, Jihaad Campbell, and Jaren Kanak all decommitted. We ended up with Myles Oliver, Kylon Griffin, Jaheim Lawson, and Kobe McCloud as their replacements. All of them were low level 3 star recruits.
But, maybe you're right about me not knowing jack #### about recruiting. You have convinced me that Clemson should never adapt to ever changing landscape of college football.
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All-In [10404]
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
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Apr 18, 2023, 2:08 PM
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#1 and #3 We all know the early struggles getting a RB with an inexperienced coach in CJ. He got his top guy this year and looks like he's going to do it again for the next class. Investment and patience in CJ is going to be worth it.
#2 Were we even a legit contender for Tyler Williams to consider it a miss? Everyone knows Joseph had voices in his ear telling him to shop due to their own self interests. You conveniently left out the other 2 WR's we signed in that class.
#4 Seems we rarely sign top TE's but currently have the #1 TE on our board committed. Do you honestly think we were going to sign Oscar Delp away from UGA? Don't remember Jake Johnson and if memory serves me correctly Jaleel Skinner was a long shot. Again it can't be considered a miss if you weren't legitimately in the running.
#5 and #6 Those guys decommited due to the uncertainty of Brent Venables, departure and you know it, but keep spinning away.
Anyone can throw a bunch of crap on a message board and claim it as facts. You've lost all credibility with the idiocy you're spewing. Go put your retarded #### on youtube.
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National Champion [7838]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
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Apr 18, 2023, 2:16 PM
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You are really good at avoiding the argument.
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All-In [10404]
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
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Apr 18, 2023, 2:20 PM
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Why the hell would I argue with a stop sign. You're outright cherry picking and in some cases dead wrong. It just hurts your feelings because you think you're some kind of recruiting guru. Putting out stupid youtube videos doesn't make you a recruiting expert. One of the top recruiting experts in the country has a saying that goes like this....it's not about the ones you miss, but about the one's you get.
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National Champion [7838]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
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Apr 18, 2023, 2:23 PM
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I apologize that the facts I am presenting are an inconvenient truth to you.
I will try better next time.
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National Champion [7838]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
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Apr 18, 2023, 2:30 PM
[ in reply to Re: Recruiting Rankings ] |
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Btw, since you've referenced my YouTube videos a couple of time, you should know that they are all very complimentary of our recruits, except for maybe the RB video. I had high praise for those low level recruits like Tyler Brown, Misun Kelley, and Shelton Lewis. I argued that Peter Woods should have been the #1 overall recruit in the country. I talk about Olsen Patt Henry and Jamal Anderson having insane potential. I talked about how much I loved our offensive line class.
You are wrong about me. That has been demonstrated multiple times on this thread though. This is what happens when you get emotional though. You should work on trying to control them though. You're an adult. Act like it.
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National Champion [7567]
TigerPulse: 100%
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why you so angry son?
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Apr 18, 2023, 4:05 PM
[ in reply to Re: Recruiting Rankings ] |
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lot of venom, you not get laid lately??
Message was edited by: RC Tiger®
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All-In [34487]
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His boyfriend won't let him get none
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Apr 18, 2023, 4:56 PM
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Ring of Honor [23760]
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Losing an argument isn't taken well by immature people.***
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Apr 18, 2023, 6:57 PM
[ in reply to why you so angry son? ] |
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All-In [10404]
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Re: Losing an argument isn't taken well by immature people.***
Apr 19, 2023, 8:03 AM
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PACIFIC BEACH TIGER® so I'm losing an argument to a guy that is cherry picking information and in some cases out right wrong?
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Orange Phenom [14588]
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Not being in the running for alot guys we would've been in the running for
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Apr 18, 2023, 4:40 PM
[ in reply to Re: Recruiting Rankings ] |
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as recently as 4 years ago is a big problem in itself. Who you are realistically able to target in recruiting is every bit as important as being able to land your targets.
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Game Changer [1801]
TigerPulse: 88%
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You offer no data whatsoever to support your...
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Apr 18, 2023, 2:39 PM
[ in reply to Re: Recruiting Rankings ] |
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insulting rebukes and in doing so broadcasted that you're bu++hurt and triggered. Simply stating that 163 of the top 250 are undecided in mid April is meanless on it's own as evidence that disprove the thread starter's statements.
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All-American [597]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Sky’s no falling
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Apr 18, 2023, 11:23 AM
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It’s April, UofSC was ahead of us this early a few years ago. Patience, we will sign a good class.
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National Champion [7838]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Sky’s no falling
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Apr 18, 2023, 1:35 PM
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So ignore the trend of their rankings getting better while ours are getting worse? Gotcha.
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Tiger Titan [50729]
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Yes, because any potentially unflattering views on football
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Apr 18, 2023, 2:29 PM
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are due to media bias, doubters, or trolls.
So head in sand = peace from the "noise" out there. It protects the fragile echo chamber.
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National Champion [7838]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Yes, because any potentially unflattering views on football
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Apr 18, 2023, 2:31 PM
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This is true.
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Varsity [104]
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Tiger Titan [50729]
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When are you going to stop trying to insult basketball when you don’t like the football convo?***
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Apr 19, 2023, 8:03 PM
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TigerNet Elite [71053]
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
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Apr 18, 2023, 11:32 AM
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The trend is obvious. We beat them recruiting almost every year.
Hopefully we will get back in the top 10 regularly again soon. I see what you're saying, but their coaching staffs are new and shiny, and there is plenty of opportunity for players to start immediately. I doubt it will hold up for long, and let's see where the 2024 recruiting class finishes before panic sets in.
Go Tigers!!!
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National Champion [7838]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
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Apr 18, 2023, 1:38 PM
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Muschamp and Taggart weren't signing equal/better classes than Clemson was when they first got hired. It's looking like Beamer and Norvell are about to sign a better class than us this year. Especially if we miss on some of these 5 star kids that we are going after.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [101355]
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If there's one sport that I'm not worried about recruiting,
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Apr 18, 2023, 11:33 AM
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it's football. I have faith in Dabo that he will have us recruiting at a high level. I can't say that about some of our other sports programs.
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National Champion [7838]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: If there's one sport that I'm not worried about recruiting,
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Apr 18, 2023, 1:39 PM
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I'd rather not regress in recruiting but we are. That doesn't seem like a smart strategy for a program that also doesn't utilize the transfer portal.
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National Champion [7567]
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but there aren't any players in the portal who meet
Apr 18, 2023, 4:08 PM
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the Clemson criteria
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Tiger Titan [50729]
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Paw Warrior [5020]
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
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Apr 18, 2023, 11:34 AM
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First who's rankings are you using
2022
Rivals: 10th
24/7: 10th
2023
Rivals: 10th
24/7: 11th
Second 2024 is still very early. Yes we have missed on a few players but we are still recuriting at a high level.
Third following the 2018 season we were comming off 2 national championships. We are really just comming back to the mean from a couple outliers. Dabo's approach to recuriting consistantly lands top 7-13 recuriting classes.
Lastly our hit rate in recuriting and luck with injuries in 2015-2018 was outstanding. Those highly ranked classes you listed included some obvious misses that cost us short term.
You are right NIL has changed the game and Dabos is not playing in the grey areas. He is using NIL to keep players in the program and I am confident that will pay dividends. We can't compete by trying to out Bama Bama. Same goes for UGA, OSU, etc. and we risk ruining all that we have accomplished by trying. Dabo has proven he has a succesful model and he continues to make small changes to maintain that success.
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All-In [10404]
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
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Apr 18, 2023, 11:37 AM
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And Rivals had FSU's 2023 class a lowly 26th.
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CU Medallion [18456]
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
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Apr 18, 2023, 11:37 AM
[ in reply to Re: Recruiting Rankings ] |
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whichever he can find that looks the worst so he can proclaim doom and gloom.
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TigerNet Icon [152683]
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Exactly…
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Apr 18, 2023, 11:59 AM
[ in reply to Re: Recruiting Rankings ] |
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It’s also funny that we are told how good recruiting was a few years back in one breath, then we’re told how terrible the WRs we recruited are those same years in the next breath. Also, fire CJ because he didn’t sign a 5 start back in a cycle we didn’t need a back and because he only signed a legacy even though that legacy was really good by all accounts and now Spiller has signed a 4* this cycle and is in the hunt with a 5* so fire somebody else instead because we haven’t signed a 5* QB in a cycle we don’t need a QB and in one breath people ask what has happened to our WRs, they are not good, and in the next breath they say 56% of or WRs the last 4 years have had injury issues, so let’s complain about strength and conditioning, because that must be the issue, but still fire Grisham because WRs even though the same people bragged about our staff continuity just a few years back now
the answer is fire everyone, especially those with prior ties to Clemson, except for Nick Eason, that dude is for
real.
Message was edited by: Francis Marion®
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CU Medallion [18456]
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Re: Exactly…
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Apr 18, 2023, 12:03 PM
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Pretty much sums it up.
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National Champion [7838]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
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1
Apr 18, 2023, 1:40 PM
[ in reply to Re: Recruiting Rankings ] |
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247 composite rankings with transfer portal added in. It makes no sense to only rank recruiting classes based off high school kids now. The transfer portal clearly matters. We wouldn't have lost to South Carolina if it didn't exist.
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All-In [10404]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
Apr 18, 2023, 1:53 PM
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You use recruiting rankings with the portal factored in? ROTFLMGDAO! Yeah you've lost all credibility. One other thing, you started being super critical of everything Dabo, right after the Gods NIL statement he made.
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National Champion [7838]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
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Apr 18, 2023, 2:08 PM
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Why would you not include transfer portal rankings? Why shouldn't Spencer Rattler and Juice Wells count towards South Carolina's recruiting class? Clemson wins by 20+ if they didn't sign them through the portal. Clearly those rankings matter.
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All-In [10404]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
Apr 18, 2023, 2:13 PM
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Clemson wins by 20+ if we don't throw a single pass in that game. Why don't you go pull for Scar, they're good at misrepresentation.
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National Champion [7838]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
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Apr 18, 2023, 2:16 PM
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Avoiding the question. Nice work
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National Champion [7838]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
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Apr 18, 2023, 2:11 PM
[ in reply to Re: Recruiting Rankings ] |
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Also, I defended Dabo after that comment. I said it was dorky, but that it is who Dabo is.
I should also mention that I've been very critical of Dabo before. I criticized Dabo for promoting Streeter to offensive coordinator. I have criticized Dabo for not utilizing the transfer portal. I, to this day, criticize Dabo for the regression over the last 4 years.
ROTFLMGDAO you're so wrong!
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Rival Killer [2845]
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
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Apr 18, 2023, 11:39 AM
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I was hopeful that bringing Riley on
board would give our program a shot in the arm
particularly at WR. To date that has proven not to be the case.
I'm in agreement that the June visits.
Hopefully we reel in at least 2.
I was thinking our recent visits
would snag at least 1 guy.
We will be fine on defense.
Let's just get that out of the way.
Recruiting on that side of the ball is
up to par with years past.
However , if guys are waiting
to see how successful this new offense
is before pulling the trigger
we will be late to the party once
again for the playmakers.
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CU Medallion [18456]
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
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Apr 18, 2023, 11:42 AM
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"if guys are waiting" how will we simultaneously "be late to the party". Doesn't make any sense. Do you mean that Class of '24 simply isn't going to to even consider the new offense and are therefore out of reach? Because if they are "waiting to see how successful this new offense is" then it isn't too "Late".
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Rival Killer [2845]
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
Apr 18, 2023, 12:42 PM
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I think other proven programs
will ###### them up in the
meantime.
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Game Changer [1801]
TigerPulse: 88%
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You're the one who inserted the word "simultaneously"
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Apr 18, 2023, 3:18 PM
[ in reply to Re: Recruiting Rankings ] |
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There is nothing in his statement that was difficult to decipher; seamless and straight forward for anyone with remedial knowledge of the subject matter–
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CU Medallion [18456]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2007
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Re: You're the one who inserted the word "simultaneously"
Apr 18, 2023, 3:21 PM
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Wrong.
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National Champion [7838]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
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Apr 18, 2023, 1:44 PM
[ in reply to Re: Recruiting Rankings ] |
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I was hoping for the same thing. The most disappointing thing about the spring game is not the play of our WRs, QBs, or OL. It's the fact that there doesn't seem to be any recruiting momentum in the immediate aftermath.
South Carolina received crystal balls for a 4 star RB, a 4 star S, and a 4 star ATH after their spring game. FSU flipped a 5 star TE from Georgia and is receiving crystal balls for a 5 star CB and a 4 star OT. Why aren't we getting any momentum?
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All-Conference [441]
TigerPulse: 95%
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
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Apr 18, 2023, 11:45 AM
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I understand the sentiment, and agree that the 2024 class is a very important one, but we can’t get too caught up in class rankings.
It’s been said a lot on here, but as high as those 2020 and 2021 classes were, a lot of those high ranking guys seemed a little overrated if we’re being honest.
The last two classes might not be as high ranked, but I think we knocked it out of the park on the lines, came out pretty strong at QB, te, secondary, and linebacker.
We clearly need to improve on the WR and RB recruiting going forward. We’re in better shape with some of the most talented guys at WR in 2024 than we have been for the last 3 or four years. My gut says we land one or two of the top guys we want. We got a pretty #### good RB and are trending well for RB in 2025 right now.
Let’s be honest, the whole CFB world has us in wait and see mode right now. We lost Venebles and took a step back on D, predictably, but are still recruiting with the best of them there. I don’t know what HS kid points at our offense the last few years and goes that looks like fun to be a part of. Let’s hope Riley can recreate what he did at SMU and TCU. There’s a lot riding on that.
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National Champion [7838]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
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Apr 18, 2023, 1:49 PM
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Georgia, Alabama, and Ohio State are recruiting better than us and it shows in their results. Those annual top 5 classes seem to work out for them. Maybe they have coaches that are better at developing their 5 star talent compared to us.
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All-Conference [441]
TigerPulse: 95%
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
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Apr 18, 2023, 3:30 PM
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They’ve always recruited better than us and probably always will. I don’t think even in our peak we’ll ever match them year after year. We have won and will win when we have a dominant DL and special QB play. That’s a good recipe for anyone to win. Those three, especially Bama and Georgia, are stacked and coached well enough that they can win it all any year even without a special QB. If you expect us to be them, even more so now in the world of NIL, you’re going to be very disappointed being a Clemson fan.
All that said, that wasn’t your original point. We won it all, including beating Ohio State and Bama, with classes ranked around 10-15. SC has some flashy momentum building for them, with a lot being predicated on some higher ranked SC high school kids that I’ll wait to see before I start cowering. I’ll bet my house they come back to earth before they are competing at the national level. Florida State is a sleeping giant. I think they might just have the coach to wake up now. Historically they’re more on the Bama, UGA, OhSt level than we are.
We have the foundation needed to keep competing for the national championship. We’ve focused our efforts more on building the lines than the skill positions. We’re feeling reverberations from Elliot and Scott taking over the offense and guiding it into the ground. If Riley is who we think he is, I think we’ll see a boost in skill position recruiting in the near future.
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Game Changer [1801]
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I couldn't disagree more...
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1
Apr 18, 2023, 3:24 PM
[ in reply to Re: Recruiting Rankings ] |
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but I'm tired of typing at the moment
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All-In [10404]
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Re: I couldn't disagree more...
Apr 18, 2023, 3:33 PM
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You're tired of typing posts with no substance?
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TigerNet Icon [152683]
TigerPulse: 100%
68
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Joined: 2010
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The trend I see is…
6
6
Apr 18, 2023, 11:46 AM
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FSU and SCofU struggle to beat us in recruiting.
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All-In [10404]
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Re: The trend I see is…
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Apr 18, 2023, 12:25 PM
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Scar always has top 25 recruiting classes...sure doesn't end up that way on the field. I think their classes gets extra credit due to the # of subscribers they have following recruiting. The recruiting services knows that subscribers don't want to pay $ to be told they're going to suck.
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National Champion [7838]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: The trend I see is…
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Apr 18, 2023, 1:45 PM
[ in reply to The trend I see is… ] |
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We are regressing while they are progressing. That is the trend.
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Freshman [-98]
TigerPulse: 55%
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
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Apr 18, 2023, 11:47 AM
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Yeah fire Dabo, he can’t recruit. Idiot.
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National Champion [7838]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
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1
Apr 18, 2023, 1:47 PM
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You probably said the same thing to those of us that wanted Streeter fired as well. Because in your delusional mind, Dabo is without fault.
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All-In [10404]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
Apr 18, 2023, 1:55 PM
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Just admit you're not a fan of Coach Swinney
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National Champion [7838]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
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1
Apr 18, 2023, 2:13 PM
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I'm a big fan of Dabo actually. But he is not without fault. I thought the Streeter promotion was a mistake. Dabo came to that realization a year too late. But thankfully he fired him for Garrett Riley, which I believe was a homerun hire.
I praise Dabo when he deserves it. But I also criticize Dabo when he makes mistakes. I treat him like a normal person, not a deity that does no wrong.
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Heisman Winner [79996]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Plenty more than not, know Dabo has faults.
Apr 18, 2023, 8:19 PM
[ in reply to Re: Recruiting Rankings ] |
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What the folks that recognize his faults, but don't do the pee pee dance over rudimentary and largely speculative statistics involving children, do is factor in our best indicator for the future, history.
What is it about the changes he has made you don't see as helping propell us back into top five classes every year? We JUST fired our OC and hired a new one, we just installed a whole new offense and Dabo has made some adjustments to his offer timing. That's only what we know.
You come off as disingenuous when you don't represent the numbers, apples to apples, like you did here.
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CU Medallion [18456]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2007
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
4
Apr 18, 2023, 12:11 PM
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Did you just make these up? I've checked ESPN, Rivals, 247, and On3. Not accurate to any - even if you cherry picked amongst them.
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National Champion [7838]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
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1
Apr 18, 2023, 1:46 PM
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247 composite.
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TigerNet Icon [152683]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2010
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Wait a second...
2
Apr 18, 2023, 2:03 PM
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The first year I pulled was 2022, where you claim the 247 composite had us at 14. The actual 247 composite had us at 10. What are we missing here? Also you say FSU is 19, composite says 20.
https://247sports.com/Season/2022-Football/CompositeTeamRankings/ 2022 Recruit Football Team Rankings In order to create the most comprehensive Team Recruiting Ranking without any notion of bias, 247Sports Team Recruiting Ranking is solely based on the 247Sports Composite Rating.
Message was edited by: Francis Marion®
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TigerNet Icon [152683]
TigerPulse: 100%
68
Posts: 35646
Joined: 2010
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National Champion [7838]
TigerPulse: 99%
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National Champion [7838]
TigerPulse: 99%
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TigerNet Icon [152683]
TigerPulse: 100%
68
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Joined: 2010
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That's not what you said in the OP...
3
Apr 18, 2023, 2:34 PM
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you said "recruiting rankings". In fact, you never even mentioned transfers or the portal. Transfers are not included in the recruiting rankings. Quite the opposite, portal rankings are listed under their own category. Your claim is our recruiting is falling off, but the metric you use is not the "recruiting ranking", which you did not disclose. Your OP is extremely misleading.
Is your point that we have fallen off in recruiting or that other schools are resorting to transfer players from the portal to try and close the recruiting gap with us? Because it looks like, based off the blend of recruiting rankings and portal rankings you used, they still can't catch us.
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National Champion [7838]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: That's not what you said in the OP...
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Apr 18, 2023, 3:20 PM
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I see the confusion and take your point. I wasn’t as precise as I should have been.
But, to answer your question, both. Clemson is not recruiting as well. FSU and UofSC are using the portal to gain ground. And if Clemson misses on their major targets that are visiting on June 2nd, then both of them will likely sign better classes than us.
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CU Medallion [18456]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: That's not what you said in the OP...
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Apr 18, 2023, 3:30 PM
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If you’re gonna put any stock in those numbers - shouldn’t you give final weight to the Team Talent Composite - https://247sports.com/Season/2022-Football/CollegeTeamTalentComposite/2022 College Football Team Talent Composite In order to create the most comprehensive Team Recruiting Ranking without any notion of bias, 247Sports Team Recruiting Ranking is solely based on the 247Sports Composite Rating.
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CU Medallion [18456]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2007
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Re: That's not what you said in the OP...
1
Apr 18, 2023, 3:23 PM
[ in reply to That's not what you said in the OP... ] |
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It’s worse than that - he’s claims to be identifying a trend but uses two different measurements. 247’s “overall” ranking only exists for the last two years.
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National Champion [7838]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: That's not what you said in the OP...
Apr 18, 2023, 4:53 PM
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Yes…
I used what was available to me…
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CU Medallion [18456]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2007
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Tiger Titan [50729]
TigerPulse: 79%
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Freshman [-74]
TigerPulse: 66%
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Sigh. Wake me up when FSU beats us.
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Apr 18, 2023, 12:19 PM
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And for that matter, wake me up when we don't make the playoffs due to the NIL or portal for that matter. It doesn't build elite programs. It might help find a player to replace a player, but there are other ways to have good players. Like what we currently do.
Neither the NILnor the portal has negatively impacted Clemson. Not one iota. We have one of the nation's best NIL buildings and as usual we're ahead of the curve for building what we need. We have not missed a single player because we didn't have money.
We might not be willing to play the same faux money game some of these schools are doing in the name of "recruiting", but we're not losing overall program ground to anyone.
The end.
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National Champion [7838]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Sigh. Wake me up when FSU beats us.
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1
Apr 18, 2023, 1:51 PM
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The NIL allows them to rebuild their roster in a hurry. Once you accomplish that, your on the field results improve. Once you start winning more, recruiting gets better and you don't have to rely on as many portal players.
They are getting better while Clemson has regressed. I think we are still better than both of them, but the gap is clearly closing.
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Orange Blooded [2190]
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
Apr 18, 2023, 12:34 PM
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Curious on these rankings based on average stars and does it tell the same story/trend. It may, I just haven’t looked.
Also, in addition to NIL, I think the Covid impact on our way of recruiting (ie late offers and get ‘em on campus to let Dabo be Dabo) can’t be overestimated.
I
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Orange Phenom [14650]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2001
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I don't know how much the pay-to-play college football
1
Apr 18, 2023, 1:19 PM
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era we are now fully in has impacted our recruiting. It's hard to gauge, though common sense tells you it's a new variable.
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
Apr 18, 2023, 12:59 PM
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Paw Warrior [5056]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
Apr 18, 2023, 1:34 PM
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24/7
2023 - 11. FSU 19, usc 16
2022 - 10. FSU 20, usc jr 24
2021 - 5. FSU 23, usc 80 - this one you got correct.
Not sure where you messed up.
Not slipping at all.
Recruiting is simple numbers and stars. You can not recruit a punter and move up the charts. You can over recruit a position and move up the charts - but hurt your team. You can get a commitment from a player who cannot get into school and you move up the charts.
I’ll stick with Dabo.
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National Champion [7838]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
2
1
Apr 18, 2023, 1:52 PM
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You are looking at just high school recruiting rankings while I'm looking at the overall rankings that add in the transfer portal players as well.
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Heisman Winner [86008]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2003
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I think '23 vs '24 shows, among other things, what the value
Apr 18, 2023, 1:39 PM
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of a single victory over us was for them. Especially in-state, they always get a bump after those rare occasions when they beat us in football.
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Rival Killer [2727]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Those Freshmen Saturday looked terrible***
Apr 18, 2023, 1:58 PM
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
Apr 18, 2023, 1:59 PM
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Asst Coach [880]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
Apr 18, 2023, 2:06 PM
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Rankings are incorrect for Clemson. Where did you get them.
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All-In [10404]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
Apr 18, 2023, 2:11 PM
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His credibility on TNet should be permanently gone. He despises Coach Swinney because of religion and now spreads a lot of false BS.
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TigerNet Icon [152683]
TigerPulse: 100%
68
Posts: 35646
Joined: 2010
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His ranking for FSU in 2022 and 2023 are inocrrect also...
1
Apr 18, 2023, 2:14 PM
[ in reply to Re: Recruiting Rankings ] |
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he has them ranked higher than the composite he said he used both years. He also has Clemson ranked worse than the actual composite both years. I'm not sure what is going on here.
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National Champion [7838]
TigerPulse: 99%
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National Champion [7838]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Game Day Hero [4289]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
1
Apr 18, 2023, 2:25 PM
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How many games and NCs have we won with recruiting classes rated lower or even much lower than the opponents
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National Champion [7838]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
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1
Apr 18, 2023, 2:32 PM
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How many of those were won since the transfer portal and NIL were a thing? College football has changed. Adapt or die.
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CU Medallion [18456]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2007
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
Apr 18, 2023, 5:18 PM
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Our overall talent index is still better in the portal era than it was when we won either championship. There is an easier and more convincing argument to be made that recruiting rankings aren’t the best measure for Coach Swinney and that his team thrives when he has to find the slightly lower ranked players that fit his system better. There has been a clear diminishing return as our average player value has risen. That is a simple fact that completely negates your argument.
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Asst Coach [810]
TigerPulse: 82%
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Re: Recruiting Rankings Attacked
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Apr 18, 2023, 6:33 PM
[ in reply to Re: Recruiting Rankings ] |
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It's incredible that you try to make some very valid points about the direction of recruiting and the program and your attacked Leon. So many on this board just keep pumping sunshine and any narrative that does not agree is shouted down. I don't know why you bother honestly. I watched one of our back up D ends that you mentioned as a fall back in the spring game. Their listing him now at 235 lbs (maybe with his pads on) up from the 215 lbs. when we signed him. I'm sorry, but 230 lbs is linebacker size. If you can't watch both the regular season and spring game and see that the talent level has tailed way off then I say your in a state of denial.
Yes, I am aware of every single player on the squad, who played and who did not. Peter Woods is great. That's one player. Top to bottom through the 85 scholarship players we are not in the same league as UGA. We were told by board members last year that we had the top defensive line in the country and one of the best defenses in total. Run that Notre Dame tape one more time. Completely overmatched physically and pounded by a one dimensional team with no QB. Portal trash chickens take us to the woodshed and run up 415 yards of total offense. Let's remember that they had struggled mightily most of the season and had virtually no rushing attack.
Hope we get it turned around but if you can't see the major issues on the OL, at WR, and with LB and DE depth then your just kidding yourself. Been going to spring games since 1980 and to the Valley since 1965. Predicting a lot of close conference games this year (like last year). Those 50 and 60 point offensive outbursts are no longer in the cards. Hope we can claw our way past Fla State and find a way to win it. An ACC title would be a great accomplishment considering what's on the field IMO.
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CU Medallion [18456]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2007
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Re: Recruiting Rankings Attacked
1
Apr 18, 2023, 6:51 PM
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he's using inaccurate information to do so. There is probably a point that could be made but he isn't making it honestly. He is using two completely different 247 rankings then presenting them as though they show a continuous decline. This is a dishonest way to present information. I've provided the link above - the same site he is using, 247, also publishes a overall team talent index that ranks the entire team - not just a single recruiting class. The years that he is attempting to say show the start of a decline actually measure as the best year's in Clemson history. Better than both of our national championship season. Our team has rated, by 247's measure (the ranking service he chose), as one of the top 5 most talented teams for the past three seasons. That is completely contrary to the scenario that he is painting.
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Heisman Winner [79996]
TigerPulse: 100%
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And it's not his first nor the only topic he's
1
Apr 18, 2023, 7:52 PM
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manipulated to suit a "sky is falling" narrative.
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CU Medallion [18456]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2007
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Re: And it's not his first nor the only topic he's
Apr 18, 2023, 9:08 PM
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I was edgy and walked around with copy of The Communist Manifesto in high school too. (And yes, I know Marxism and Communism are different).
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Ring of Honor [23760]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Posts: 15276
Joined: 1995
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You know the point he is making and it’s true
1
Apr 18, 2023, 9:25 PM
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So stop, you’re embarrassing yourselves.
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CU Medallion [18456]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 11978
Joined: 2007
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Re: You know the point he is making and it’s true
Apr 18, 2023, 10:41 PM
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No, I don’t know the point he’s making because he is using data in a disingenuous way. When the same source is collated to reflect the actual talent that composes the entire team the argument he makes falls apart. So maybe you two, in your weird quest to be self-hating football fans, are the ones embarrassing yourselves.
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National Champion [7838]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: You know the point he is making and it’s true
1
Apr 19, 2023, 7:23 AM
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The point: When it comes to recruiting, Clemson is regressing while FSU and South Carolina are progressing.
The overall talent ranking is incredibly misleading. For example, the 2022 ranking lists Hunter Johnson as a 5 star, which boosts our numbers. That’s just ridiculous though considering how awful he really was. But if you want to use those rankings, by all means, go for it.
When I use recruiting rankings, I’ll continue to use the overall rankings to include high school kids + transfer portal players. I understand how crucial the portal is and how it has helped expedite FSU and UofSC’s rebuild. I recognize that the most impactful players in their recruiting classes are the ones they land through the portal.
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Ring of Honor [23760]
TigerPulse: 100%
53
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Joined: 1995
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Dude, he knows all this...
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1
Apr 19, 2023, 8:01 PM
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he's just trying to find holes because he's a pumper supreme. Calls us disingenuous very ironically.
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TigerNet Immortal [173155]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2012
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NIL is not good for college football. It's no longer about
2
Apr 18, 2023, 3:27 PM
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the recruiting, it's about the money.
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Re: NIL is not good for college football. It's no longer about
Apr 18, 2023, 3:31 PM
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Orange Elite [5427]
TigerPulse: 44%
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Paw Warrior [4804]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
Apr 18, 2023, 4:13 PM
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What recruiting service are these numbers from?
24/7 had Clemson at 10 in 2022 and 11 in 2023.
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Paw Warrior [4804]
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National Champion [7628]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
1
Apr 18, 2023, 5:03 PM
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You have one assistant coach with zero language skills and sounds like he has a mouth full of mash potatoes when he mumbles something nobody can understand. You have another assistant coach who is an extreme smart ### and maybe the worst interview EVER at Clemson. Then you have a WR coach with similar language skills who has exhibited a total lack of ability to evaluate, recruit and develop talent. Why would a 5* player give these coaches the time of day and they most certainly don't want to spend 4 years with them. That is three out of the recruiting staff that really hurt us. If you notice, we are continuing to get great defensive linemen, Linebackers and defensive back year in year out. Coaches, all coaches. Some can do it, some cannot.
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Paw Warrior [4844]
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
Apr 18, 2023, 7:10 PM
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What rankings are you using?
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Paw Master [16128]
TigerPulse: 97%
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We have finished in front of them both EVERY YEAR
Apr 18, 2023, 7:39 PM
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Unless you count this year which isn't even into the summer yet.
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110%er [5713]
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
1
Apr 18, 2023, 7:43 PM
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We lost Venables, Scott, Elliott and Streeter. That’s a lot of recruiting firepower.
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Heisman Winner [79996]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Yea, we really should have backfilled those guys...
Apr 18, 2023, 7:46 PM
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Wow, you're an idiot.
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110%er [3824]
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
Apr 19, 2023, 6:32 AM
[ in reply to Re: Recruiting Rankings ] |
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If you include portal players in recruiting rankings you MUST also include players that stick around like XT, et al! Add them at their original star value or as a 4 Star if lower and now a starter! Dabo has done a better job of that than anybody.
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Tiger Titan [50729]
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Rival Killer [2845]
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
1
Apr 18, 2023, 7:44 PM
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Don't look now but the coots
are now trending for a RB ranked
somewhat higher than EZ.
The hits just keep on coming
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Asst Coach [830]
TigerPulse: 89%
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Re: Recruiting Rankings
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Apr 19, 2023, 10:49 AM
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The bottom line is anyone can say whatever they want about the numbers or rankings provided, but if the trend continues, at some point you will be forced to acknowledge it. Will people still be making excuses and saying stars don't matter when we are 35th in recruiting? 20 is far enough for me. "Someome was in his ear" or "was he really ever considering us?"
That's kinda the point. We've had recruits flip to us on signing day despite strong family ties somewhere else, and the fact that we aren't at all really in it with some of these kids shows how far we've fallen. In the height of our program, kids were begging us. Why did you just grant Oscar Delp to Georgia? Your answer is proof we've fallen.
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