Replies: 49
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CU Guru [1446]
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Very concerned about interior DL
Aug 1, 2019, 3:53 PM
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Nyles pickney only 290. Darnell Jeffries only 280. We better hope Jordan Williams is a player and Tyler Davis can contribute. And then there’s Xavier Kelly who hasn’t done much of anything is whole career
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Hall of Famer [20547]
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Re: Very concerned about interior DL
Aug 1, 2019, 4:02 PM
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I keep hearing Xavier Kelly is ready. Big problem was he was an end who outgrew the position and then was a tweener for a couple years.
Darnell Jeffries is getting bigger; I think they figured out he was diabetic and have been able to start getting weight on him.
My understanding was Jordan Williams had some kind of leg surgery and couldn't work out so he's actually too heavy, but the guy is a player.
Pinckney is a high-round NFL guy. Tyler Davis reminded me so much of Grady Jarrett this Spring it was scary; as an early enrollee he was abusing Sean Pollard, a senior who has started a boatload of games for Clemson at three different positions now. And apparently Ruke and Rueben are drawing raves as well.
I actually think we're good. I'm a lot more concerned about LB. We have Simmons, Skalski, and Smith...and then a whole lot of freshmen.
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All-Pro [666]
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Re: Very concerned about interior DL
Aug 1, 2019, 4:14 PM
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Yea I just saw Kelly was up to 302 which is amazing!
I see where the OP has his concerns. It's about the unknowns behind what was arguably our best line and possibly best DL in college football history and we don't have that leadership anymore either.
They will be good, just may take time to gel!
Same with LBs.
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: Very concerned about interior DL
Aug 1, 2019, 6:33 PM
[ in reply to Re: Very concerned about interior DL ] |
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We have a Venables at linebacker position and another on the sideline, I’m not worried!
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CU Guru [1852]
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Re: Very concerned about interior DL
Aug 1, 2019, 7:37 PM
[ in reply to Re: Very concerned about interior DL ] |
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NP and JW were both injured which probably impacted their weight.
Didn’t know about Darnell but that sounds promising. Like you said, XK came in as a DT and needed to put the weight on to play. Unfortunately we didn’t use Ostarine and he put the weight on the right way, over 2 years. At 300 I expect him to have a great year.
Dont forget some of the freshman and this unit will be good not elite. You don’t replace Wilkins, Dex, and Huggy but I’m not worried about DT.
LB depth is a problem but think we will be a good interior group. If our Defense is just top 15 (which is feasible) then lookout with our offense.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Very concerned about interior DL
Aug 2, 2019, 5:49 AM
[ in reply to Re: Very concerned about interior DL ] |
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Pinckney is overrated by our fans imo. I watched him get abused a lot last year. I think he is above average at best IF he is the same player as last year. He may step it up and be way better though. That happens. I am hoping. I think our interiors comes down to Davis being the real deal.
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Orange Blooded [2217]
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PFF graded Pinckney as the best ACC DT against the run last year
Aug 2, 2019, 6:21 AM
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So if that’s overrated then sure.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: PFF graded Pinckney as the best ACC DT against the run last year
Aug 2, 2019, 6:39 AM
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Neat. I watched him get abused. He is overrated. He needs to step it up.
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All-TigerNet [10822]
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He got blocked sometimes but I’d hardly call it getting
Aug 2, 2019, 7:45 AM
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Abused. Can you show us some game clips for reference?
I think he is going to have a big year for us. Really excited to see him and Tyler Davis.
Davis has amazing natural ability. He’s quick as a cat and plays with perfect leverage. Quoz’s comparison to Grady Jarrett is spot on imo.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: He got blocked sometimes but I’d hardly call it getting
Aug 2, 2019, 8:23 AM
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I posted on here when it was happening and yes I saw him get abused a lot. I posted about it during games maybe 5 times last season. There was a significant drop off when he came in usually. He played well vs Bama though. We will see. He may have a huge year. I am just saying if he is who he was overall last year, he is not a strength. He was nothing special. That doesnt mean he wont be awesome this year. As far as Davis, I can't wait to see him play. I love wnat the coaches are saying.
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All-TigerNet [10822]
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so you don’t have any examples. NP is a very good player
Aug 2, 2019, 10:14 PM
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Above average on his worst day. We will be fine at DL. I didn’t see him getting abused last year. I saw him make plays a lot. You are dead wrong.
I guarantee you he had a lot more good plays than bad. He will only get better taking first team reps in practice. This is his money year, he will be highly motivated. If for some reason he’s not we have a good pool of talent behind him. We will see some DT’s rise to the occasion this year. We always have under BV defenses.
He’s not going to make as much of an impact as big Dex or CW42 but he will do his job.
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110%er [7196]
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Re: so you don’t have any examples. NP is a very good player
Aug 2, 2019, 10:26 PM
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Agreed! NP is a solid starter who will be drafted high in the NFL draft.
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Re: PFF graded Pinckney as the best ACC DT against the run last year
Aug 2, 2019, 9:12 AM
[ in reply to PFF graded Pinckney as the best ACC DT against the run last year ] |
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Overrated or underrated don't know, he is a natural DT versus DE's who out grew the position & he's similarly rated (4*Ithink). Probably higher expectations, at least out of the gate, for Pinckney. "Graded best in the ACC against the run" by PFF, I hope he proves worthy of the grade; but the sample size somewhat negates the value of such a grade-
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CU Guru [1852]
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Re: Very concerned about interior DL
Aug 2, 2019, 6:34 AM
[ in reply to Re: Very concerned about interior DL ] |
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I think NP is a good player who holds the pocket and can makes plays against the run. Not fair to him the fans probably will compare him to CW and Big Dex. He’s not that good, very very few are.
Nyles is a good player who will hold up well. Make no mistake though, the DTs take a step back from elite to good. Which is good enough to win it all.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Very concerned about interior DL
Aug 2, 2019, 6:41 AM
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Exactly. I am comparing him to studs like Dex and Wilkins. He isnt at that level. He is no Grady Jarrett etc. He just isn't.
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CU Guru [1852]
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Re: Very concerned about interior DL
Aug 2, 2019, 6:55 AM
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So he’s not 2 of the 3 best DTs from last year along with the Oliver kid. You are comparing him to two first round draft picks and a guy who just signed one of the largest contracts for a DT in the NFL in Grady.
Nyles not being that level doesn’t make him a bad player or an overrated player. He’s a good player but he’s not the best to ever suit it up. Again, with our DTs this year, we will be good not great. They will be a placeholder until the next elites arrive in 2020.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Very concerned about interior DL
Aug 2, 2019, 7:00 AM
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We are pretty elite program and have high standards, so I am pointing out that he is not a strength. He is serviceable. Guarantee over the next 10 years we have a lot of first round DT' s. He just happens to not be one of them. I am looking forward to see who also steps it up. We should be rotating a lot of guys, so we should be fine.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Very concerned about interior DL
Aug 2, 2019, 5:50 AM
[ in reply to Re: Very concerned about interior DL ] |
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Pinckney is overrated by our fans imo. I watched him get abused a lot last year. I think he is above average at best IF he is the same player as last year. He may step it up and be way better though. That happens. I am hoping. I think our interior comes down to Davis being the real deal.
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Orange Blooded [2896]
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Legend [17786]
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you just named 5 potential All-ACC DTs, and you're worried?
Aug 1, 2019, 4:06 PM
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lol
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Orange Blooded [2459]
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Re: Very concerned about interior DL***
Aug 1, 2019, 4:07 PM
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Oculus Spirit [96975]
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Re: Very concerned about interior DL***
Aug 1, 2019, 4:17 PM
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110%er [5045]
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Re: Very concerned about interior DL
Aug 1, 2019, 4:20 PM
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Ed Oliver 287 Q. Williams 303 Jerry Tillery 295 Jeffrey Simmons 300 Dremont Jones 281 Maurice Hurst 282 Taven Bryan 291 Johnathen Allen 286 Deforest Buckner 290 Nkemdichie 294
295 doesn't seem so bad when you look at the past 3 NFL Draft DTs rated in the top 10 for the position around that weight.... No worries.
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Orange Blooded [2217]
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Not a big deal
Aug 1, 2019, 4:25 PM
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The trend at both the college and NFL level is skewing toward lighter DT’s in the 290-300 range. As the pass game becomes more prevalent, a bigger emphasis is put on athleticism in the interior to be able to generate pass rush.
It’s very apparent our coaches like the strategy of converting DE’s into DT’s to get athletic guys inside. God doesn’t make but a handful of Dexter Lawrence’s with his combination of size and athleticism. The days of the big, fat 330 lb run stuffing DT are largely over.
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110%er [5045]
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Re: Not a big deal
Aug 1, 2019, 4:32 PM
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Exactly, downhill run powered offenses are a thing of the past and dying out. Spread offense thrives against big linemen not able to be on the field 75+ plays a game without being worn out. Very few are about 320 you get Vita Vea and Big Dex but Dex still ran a sub 5 second 40 which is unheard of at 340ish and the same goes for LBs as you don't see the big 250lb linebackers anymore compared to your 220-235lb linebackers.
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110%er [7591]
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Re: Not a big deal
Aug 1, 2019, 6:30 PM
[ in reply to Not a big deal ] |
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Very true! I'm not worried!
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CU Medallion [58484]
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Good lawd man!***
Aug 1, 2019, 4:58 PM
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All-TigerNet [13260]
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Defensive line play is so much more than weight
Aug 1, 2019, 6:25 PM
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there is: - Package recognition - Player/formation cues pre snap - Player/formation cues immediate post snap - knowing gap assignment - working with your hands
If our players are good in these areas, we'll never care what their weight is.
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Orange Blooded [2115]
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Re: Very concerned about interior DL
Aug 1, 2019, 6:49 PM
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LMAO. 2014 Clemson defense #1 in the country. Starting DTs: Grady Jarrett 6-1 290 Deshaun Williams 6-1 290. I think we'll be alright
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Commissioner [986]
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Re: Very concerned about interior DL
Aug 1, 2019, 7:24 PM
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We will be fine somehow.
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CU Guru [1514]
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Re: Very concerned about interior DL
Aug 1, 2019, 8:30 PM
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somehow? the same folks that recruited and trained our last dls recruited and trained these guys. we may not be as dominant, but we should be very strong
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Legend [16186]
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I expect a drop off in our DL play
Aug 1, 2019, 9:00 PM
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I think that our losses on the DL were huge. 42 was a four year starter. Cle went 4th in the NFL Draft. Big Dex was a first rounder. Austin Bryant made plays for us for several years than were simply terrific. Who doesn't recall Bryant's interception or the way he stuffed the Bama shovel pass near the goal line?
I love the guys we have in the pipeline, but I expect us to be considerably less dominant along the D-Line this year.
Of course, I am a nervous nellie pre-season and pre-game. I had no idea we'd go back to the CFP the year after Watson left us. It just seemed improbable. And the idea that 24 months after Deshaun's last game, we'd destroy Alabama behind the best freshman QB anyone has ever seen came as a surprise to me too!
So I am hopeful, but I think we'll slump on the DL in 2019.
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CU Guru [1692]
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Re: Very concerned about interior DL
Aug 1, 2019, 10:23 PM
[ in reply to Re: Very concerned about interior DL ] |
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Eh not totally true. This will be the first group of DTs that hasn't received significant Dan Brooks coaching (and DEs that haven't received Hobby coaching but we're far more loaded with experienced talent at DE). Bates is an excellent recruiter, and has done a good job with can't miss prospects, but we're about to find out if he can develop guys like Brooks could.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Very concerned about interior DL
Aug 2, 2019, 9:34 AM
[ in reply to Re: Very concerned about interior DL ] |
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I get your point, but Clemson was the #6 defense in the country in 2014, not #1. And the rushing defense was a weaker point for the team (they were #3 in yards allowed through the air a game). Still great, just not #1. I think this year's defense is probably in the same area, bottom half of the top 10.
I do think a lot of posters here should take off the orange colored glasses. Every team, even the 1985 Bears, has a weakness. Analysts are wrong that Clemson's defensive line as a whole is a weakness. The defensive ends this year are even deeper than last year's. But it's true that Nyles Pinckney is probably a high round draft pick/free agent style player and that Jordan Williams is not proven yet, and no one knows anything about Xavier Kelly and Tyler Davis. They are replacing Dexter Lawrence and Christian Wilkins, 2 of the top 3 defensive tackles last year and the two best DTs Clemson ever had. In addition, they lost Albert Huggins, who was a bit better than Nyles Pinckney, though closer to their level. Of course Clemson's going to take a step back from that. And I do think, especially with the lack of depth at linebacker (though I'm glad Skalski's back), that Clemson's weakness should be against the inside run.
But this is a rebuilding year for Clemson in a lot of ways, losing five guys on defense who had played at an incredibly high level. It's pretty awesome that in a rebuilding year, Clemson is still probably going to have a top 10 defense with a fantastic secondary, to go along with an offense that has no weakness to speak of with two Heisman candidates, a seasoned offensive line, and two of the top 5 receivers in college football (not to mention the freshmen). Do I know if Clemson will go 15-0, no, but I doubt it. But they should still make the playoffs and win the ACC, which we would have killed for 10 years ago. And 2020 brings in a class that should be even better for the program than the 2015 one (I really believe Bresee is better than Wilkins with the same kind of leadership). So people should feel good about the next ~5 years of being a tiger, though it's silly for people to jump down someone's throat when they say Clemson might have a weakness (that teams like UGA and Bama could potentially exploit).
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110%er [5287]
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Re: Very concerned about interior DL
Aug 2, 2019, 10:01 AM
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Not quite sure where you are getting your info, but Clemson did indeed end at #1 in 2014 in Total Defense as of January 12, 2015 (the end of the 2014 season). https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/2015/team/22
^Straight from the NCAA website.
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110%er [5287]
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110%er [5287]
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Orange Blooded [2217]
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Way too pessimistic
Aug 2, 2019, 12:57 PM
[ in reply to Re: Very concerned about interior DL ] |
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Having a top 10 statistical defense is not a weakness. You’re right there are concerns along the interior of the front and unproven starters at LB. I don’t think anyone is disputing that. However, we’ve heard very similar fears about the defense replacing key players several years prior and those were unfounded.
Will the DT’s be as good as Wilkins and Dex? No most likely not. But they also don’t need to be. The secondary will be the best one we’ve had under Dabo, Simmons is a monster, zero concerns about the talent and depth at DE, and the way the coaches are raving about Skalski is very encouraging. Add in Venables coaching the defense, an increased talent and depth level across the board, and likely the best and most talented offense in the country, and you can’t really call this a rebuilding year.
The defense will likely take a step back, especially against the run, but even a step back is still inside the top 5-10. Combine a top 5 offense with a top 5-10 defense and that’s a recipe to at least be one of the championship favorites.
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110%er [7196]
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Re: Way too pessimistic
Aug 2, 2019, 6:56 PM
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** As long as BV is our DC; I don't see the need to worry like what I am reading on here. He chooses carefully who to bring into the fold. His track record suggest there is very little to worry about. **Coach Bates learned from Coach Brooks. Not concerned if "he was on the coattails of Brooks"! He was hand picked by Coach Swinney and Coach V agreed after working camps with him. He will have our interior DL ready. **Leon Trosky - awesome post! It really breaks down the uncertainty everyone must have had going into a National Championship season! CW42 had to play DE for Pete's sake along with a a young player in CF99. Not only will you have two "ELITE DE's" on either side for starters; you will have Elite back ups! Mascoll or Henry(5* who volunteered to RS to put on weight/speed) or the other XT3(#1 overall in some recruiting services for his class) or Foster(Coaches raving about how he looks and plays) or Rudolph(4 star grinder who just makes plays). And the young guys!
AJ Terrell or Tankersley - Terrell will probably test better for the NFL and takes less gambles on plays. DK or Ryan Carter(yet to be determined) but one was a 3* or low 4* the other is being raved about by the offense as guaranteed All American type at CB! That coming from guys who played against Bama's vaunted secondary and ND secondary!
Safeties we are more experienced because unless I am mistaken the 2016 starters only started 1 season. These guys have seen it against Jimbo Fisher. Against Oklahoma. Tua.
LB and DT - some concerns about the depth only. The guys who will be starting I have no concerns about. C. Smith was like finding money in a pair of pants you haven't worn in a while to me. I guess I had slept on him. He just went out and balled out. Really like him. Skalski all you hear about is how tough he is and how he flies around "making plays"! Can't wait to see him. And Simmons will get drafted higher than Dorian(though O'Daniel is one of my favorite Tigers ever, great attitude). Simmons has rare gifts at the LB position and will be a match up problem for offenses who think, "match'em up with a LB"! HUH! Good luck with that! DT - again - the reason guys transfer is b/c they don't get playing time. Now think DT again. Think these guys sitting there thinking "how good they are and how they better than the starter and how sitting hurts their opportunity to make it to the league"! No way in Hades will these guys come out and not ball out. They will be the hungriest part of this team; especially early! Showing their worth and shutting mouth's and silencing doubters!
BTW, Pinckney played a lot more snaps than you are giving him credit for Carlsbad. The guy played starter snaps and I think started a few games when Dex was hurt in the season not playoffs(Huggins started then). Pinckney for the talk of him being overrated will likely not last on the board beyond the 3rd round of the draft! If he has no unforseen bad luck the guy will be an easy 2nd day draft player and in no way overrated. Those aren't orange colored glasses; that is something God Willing we will witness!
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Hall of Famer [24622]
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You worry too much....
Aug 1, 2019, 9:07 PM
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Guess you never heard of a guy by the name of Grady Jarrett...
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All-American [573]
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Re: Very concerned about interior DL
Aug 1, 2019, 10:17 PM
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The players we have should be enough during the regular season but due to the departure of Wilkins, Lawrence, and Huggins; perception will be that the interior of our D-Line is a potential weak spot & will be tested as such, for the better half of the regular season, longer if teams have success there. Run-on para
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Orange Blooded [3569]
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Re: Very concerned about interior DL
Aug 2, 2019, 4:03 AM
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I think one thing you are forgetting is how much Pickney and Williams played last year. There was a drop off when Wilkins and Dex were on the sidelines but Huggins and either of those guys were flying and making plays left and right.
Im buying the stock when it comes to Tyler Davis too, he looks like a Jarrett clone. And it's time for Kelly to play finally.
DL is unbelievably deep and only getting deeper. Plus the DEs that are going to be on the field are going to command attention. XT, Mascoll, Henry,Rudolph, and Foster that's a steady rotation.
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Team Captain [459]
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Re: Very concerned about interior DL
Aug 2, 2019, 6:28 AM
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I’m only slightly concerned. I don’t think there’s any question this defense will be weaker than last years and likely have some growing pains. Don’t forget about this offense though. They can outscore about anyone in the country which will allow the D to stabilize. Not worried. Go Tigers
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All-In [40949]
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Every year Venebales' defense gets decimated
Aug 2, 2019, 7:53 AM
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whatever will we do
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All-TigerNet [10822]
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I know, the sky is falling
Aug 2, 2019, 8:19 AM
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Venables has never had to replace a bunch of talent before. Whatever will we do?
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110%er [6398]
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Re: Very concerned about interior DL
Aug 2, 2019, 12:44 PM
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We shouldn’t be that worried in my opinion. Let’s look at the starting defense in 2016 and compare it to this years defense.
DE: Christian Wilkins (SO) vs Xavier Thomas (SO) DT: Carlos Watkins (rsSR) vs Nyles Pinckney (rsJR) DT: Dexter Lawrence (FR) vs Jordan Williams (rsSO) DE: Clelin Ferrell (rsFR) vs Justin Foster (JR)
LB: Dorian O’Daniel (rsJR) vs Isaiah Simmons (rsJR) LB: Ben Boulware (SR) vs James Skalski (rsJR) LB: Kendall Joseph (rsSO) vs Chad Smith (rsSR)
CB: Cordrea Tankersly (SR) vs AJ Terrell (JR) S: Jadar Johnson (SR) vs Tanner Muse (rsSR) S: Van Smith (SO) vs K’Von Wallace (SR) CB: Ryan Carter (rsJR) vs Derion Kendrick (SO)
2016 backups: Austin Bryant (SO), Richard Yeargin (rsSO), Scott Pagano (rsJR), Jabril Robinson (rsSO), JD Davis (SO), Judah Davis (SO), Jalen Williams (SO), K’Von Wallace (FR), Trayvon Mullen (FR)
2019 backups: Logan Rudolph (rsSO), KJ Henry (rsFR), Xavier Kelly (rsJR), Tyler Davis (FR), Mike Jones (rsFR), Jake Venables (rsFR), Baylon Spector (rsSO), Mario Goodrich (SO), Denzel Johnson (rsSR), Nolan Turner (rsJR), Andrew Booth/Sheridan Jones (FR)
I don’t know, if you’re asking me, this defense is more talented than that 2016 defense which won a national title. The back 7 are substantially better. The two deep on the defensive line is better as well. I think we’re going to be alright. Not as good as last year, but we can be better than what we were in 2016, which was pretty #### good.
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All-Conference [441]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 278
Joined: 12/20/04
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Re: Very concerned about interior DL
Aug 2, 2019, 9:15 PM
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I went to one of Jordan Williams’ games in Virginia Beach after he committed. At 6-5 / 250 he was easily the biggest kid out there. But surprisingly he was also about the fastest.
They would line him up as a DE and when the other team tried to run the play away from him around the opposite end, he easily ran the play down from the backside.
He showed up on campus overweight and they immediately moved him to a DT position. My hope is that he still has great speed and can use that to his advantage much the same way Christian Wilkins was able to get around blocks and get past people.
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110%er [7196]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6894
Joined: 1/25/17
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Re: Very concerned about interior DL
Aug 2, 2019, 9:47 PM
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Samuraitater - yes his speed showed up well on the video I saw of him. If he has retained that athleticism as you said, "look out". He could be a match up nightmare if so.
Jefferies is another kid who I think is being overlooked. He plays hard man and just "wants it" more than anybody on the field. I like the way he plays. Hopefully, he can get and keep some weight on him!
I keep - and most poster keep forgetting - Tayquan Johnson - 6'3 295. Composite 3 star player must have shown BV something special in camp. I like the little bit of video I was able to see of him. Same with Ruke and Reuben. Project players - much like the Canadian WR that just committed - but all about the right things. And, workers who will listen to coaching and not think they know it all! Recipe for success!
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All-In [44069]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32976
Joined: 2/22/03
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Re: Very concerned about interior DL
Aug 2, 2019, 9:35 PM
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Replies: 49
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