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Varsity [104]
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Facts are stubborn things.
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Feb 15, 2023, 7:30 AM
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On paper, Brownell *is* the best (most successful) men's bball coach Clemson's ever had.
Let's agree on that. It's not even close. Even Purnell, who was purdy good, posted four losing conference records in seven seasons.
Brownell's put up five in 13.
Here's the pivot:
Clemson's just an average program. Maybe good at times but perennially, just "meh."
Some of you arent satisfied with that. (And some of you just love trolling those of us, like JK, who dont think bball gets the support it should.)
But it's not the easiest conference to win (this year being a rare exception). (Oh, and the ACC being a marquis conference is another indisputable fact, btw.)
That said, Brownell has done remarkably well and should leave on his terms.
good luck finding a coach that can match his success.
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Ring of Honor [22198]
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Re: Facts are stubborn things.
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Feb 15, 2023, 7:35 AM
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This is hilarious, all we hear from the BB crowd if Dabo doesn’t go undefeated and win a National Championship is how bad he sucks and how stupid he is. If we want to have a mediocre basketball team forever then yes we have our guy.
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Who mentioned Dabo/football?
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Feb 15, 2023, 8:09 AM
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I mean, yeah, Dabo's had a good run. And expectations are higher as a result. Much much higher.
But to compare football to basketball in terms of funding/facilities/fanbase and in-conference competition is a stretch.
(Let's face it, if Clemson was an SEC football team the last decade wouldve probably looked aloooot different.)
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Clemson Icon [24894]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Tell 'em coot. No one knows losing better than you.
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Feb 15, 2023, 8:10 AM
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LOL
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Top TigerNet [30948]
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Re: Tell 'em coot. No one knows losing better than you.
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Feb 15, 2023, 8:22 AM
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Clemson Icon [24894]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Re: Tell 'em coot. No one knows losing better than you.
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Feb 15, 2023, 8:40 AM
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Clemson Conqueror [11400]
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Yes. Because the road to the natty
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Feb 15, 2023, 10:08 AM
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usually runs through the SEC.
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110%er [6166]
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Well, then the SEC shouldn’t have stopped one game short
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Feb 15, 2023, 8:43 PM
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when they faced Clemson for the title.
They shoulda stayed on the road all the way to the end.
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Yeah that's true.
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Feb 16, 2023, 6:44 PM
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Doesnt change the fact that the road to the natty usually runs through the SEC. And will probably continue to for the forseeable future.
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National Champion [7875]
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That's some next level mental gymnastics.
Feb 16, 2023, 8:24 PM
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And I'm more than willing to bet you ain't got the cells to spare, 🤡 💩.
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Oh man. You speak emoji.
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Feb 16, 2023, 10:27 PM
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That's too funny.
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Oculus Spirit [44661]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Who mentioned Dabo/football?
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Feb 15, 2023, 2:12 PM
[ in reply to Who mentioned Dabo/football? ] |
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I mean, yeah, Dabo's had a good run. And expectations are higher as a result. Much much higher.
But to compare football to basketball in terms of funding/facilities/fanbase and in-conference competition is a stretch.
(Let's face it, if Clemson was an SEC football team the last decade wouldve probably looked aloooot different.)
Yea that’s what Bama said.
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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What did Bama say?
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Feb 16, 2023, 6:48 PM
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"We've been in six of nine CFPs and won three of 'em?"
It's just the way it is. Not knocking Clemson but you cant rewrite history.
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Paw Warrior [4812]
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Re: Who mentioned Dabo/football?
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Feb 15, 2023, 7:38 PM
[ in reply to Who mentioned Dabo/football? ] |
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If Clemson were in the SEC there would be 2 years maybe 3 where there was some growing pains. Those "bad" years would be 9 or 10 win years at worst. Recruiting would take off in a big way, that's the most used line to recruit against Clemson. Clemson football under Dabo will never be irrelevant.
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Then I guess you should hope
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Feb 16, 2023, 6:55 PM
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Dabo never leaves or that Clemson never joins the SEC if he does.
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National Champion [8019]
TigerPulse: 100%
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u can spot a coot when they use the SEC in their comparison
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Feb 16, 2023, 8:43 AM
[ in reply to Who mentioned Dabo/football? ] |
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you guys are mesmerized by the SEC thing. Its like your identity is SEC not the University of South Carolina. But the ironic thing is, you don't contribute anything of value to the SEC. You're a placeholder at best. Pretty sure if you polled the majority of the SEC teams fanbases and they give the option to trade out Scar for Clemson the overwhelming majority would do that in a heartbeat. Scar is one of the schools that drag that conference down in value. But ya'll trumpet SEC SEC like you're part of the cool crowd... and you're the dirty kid with the snot running down to your mouth. IDK, just thought i'd point that out for ya.
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Yeah Im actually not from an SEC school.
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Feb 16, 2023, 6:51 PM
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Big12 here. Hasnt been a great run football-wise for us.
I agree 100% Clemson should jump to the SEC. They'd be competitive. Not dominant ... but competitive.
Couldnt care less what Carolina does they're boring and generally forgettable.
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Solid Orange [1342]
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Re: u can spot a coot when they use the SEC in their comparison
Feb 17, 2023, 6:12 AM
[ in reply to u can spot a coot when they use the SEC in their comparison ] |
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If we're going to quote facts the only reason UofSC is in the SEC is that UF ans Jawja needed a patsy in the east and UNC and CCC would not leave...if they had the SEC would never have poultry and dumped sailors!..The idiots thought that Broyles would bring in a strong Arkansas team and they collapsed! SEC was not always so smart in their choices...ESPN money made them look smarter...fact is CCC is a great national draw and ESPN counts on that...much of the SEC does not draw well, need for UT and Okies!
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Varsity [104]
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It's like Groundhog day around here
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Feb 16, 2023, 10:45 PM
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Same lame take over and over and over again - "Yeah, well. So. We beat Bama so ... yeah" and yet ... it has absolutely NOTHInG to do with the fact that the road to the natty almost ALWAYS goes thru the SEC.
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Head Coach [953]
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Re: Facts are stubborn things.
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Feb 15, 2023, 9:25 AM
[ in reply to Re: Facts are stubborn things. ] |
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We are a mediocre program...i think our history in the sport reflects this.
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Oculus Spirit [42282]
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So he has the second worst overall winning percentage in Clemson history.
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Feb 15, 2023, 7:37 AM
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Second only to Shyatt. And that equals most successful? I guess I don’t follow.
Message was edited by: lovingit®
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Im not great at maths
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Feb 15, 2023, 8:41 AM
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but I think CBB's got the best conference winning % in program history. To me, that's a KPI worth celebrating.
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Hall of Famer [9047]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Its actually completely irrelevant
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Feb 15, 2023, 9:18 AM
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How many regular season titles? How many ACC tournament titles? How many NCAA invites? How many NCAA wins? These are the important questions.
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Head Coach [953]
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Re: Its actually completely irrelevant
Feb 15, 2023, 9:28 AM
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None of our coaches have these things...we are the South Carolina of ACC basketball...ie: zero banners
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Tiger Titan [50775]
TigerPulse: 79%
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Brad’s NCAA Tournament record at Clemson
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Feb 15, 2023, 11:31 AM
[ in reply to Its actually completely irrelevant ] |
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is better than Cliff Ellis’s, Rick Barnes’s, and Oliver Purnell’s here.
If NCAA Tournament success is a major factor, and I believe it is, Brad is the best basketball coach we’ve had.
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Hall of Famer [9047]
TigerPulse: 97%
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We cant even make the dance with the ACC the worst its been
Feb 15, 2023, 1:50 PM
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since, basically ever. Pretty #### sad commentary if he is the best we have ever had.
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Tiger Titan [50775]
TigerPulse: 79%
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We are very likely to make the dance this year
Feb 16, 2023, 3:34 PM
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which would mean we’ve been in 3 out of 5. That’s good for most teams, and great for Clemson.
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Dont start making sense.
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Feb 16, 2023, 7:01 PM
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It futzes with the equillibrium.
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CU Guru [1501]
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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I dont think youve got a silver bullet
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Feb 16, 2023, 7:05 PM
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though I suspect maybe youve *had* a couple.
Nobody has been better than Brownell.
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110%er [3666]
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Top TigerNet [30948]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Facts are stubborn things.
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Feb 15, 2023, 7:41 AM
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in the last 10 years the conference winners have been Miami, Virginia, Notre Dame, North Carolina, Duke, Virginia, Duke, Fl St(covid no tourney), Ga Tech, and Virginia Tech in that order.
Thats 8 different ACC teams out of a total 15 teams thats won the ACC Tournament in the last 10 years.
Your "facts" do not support your narrative.
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Oculus Spirit [43161]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Which Clemson BB coach has the most ACC championships?
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Feb 15, 2023, 8:30 AM
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They are all tied!
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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So, to your point,
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Feb 15, 2023, 9:11 AM
[ in reply to Re: Facts are stubborn things. ] |
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which of those HC's would you choose to helm the Clemson program if not Brownell?
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Not "facts." Facts.
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Feb 15, 2023, 12:04 PM
[ in reply to Re: Facts are stubborn things. ] |
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They are what they are, regardless of the narrative. Hence the OP.
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Dynasty Maker [3358]
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Re: Facts are stubborn things.
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Feb 15, 2023, 7:41 AM
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Honest question for the Brownell supporters that should be a simple yes or no.
If this is the best, most talented team Brownell has had in his 13 years at Clemson, do you think he should be retained if he fails to make it to the NCAA tourney this year?
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National Champion [7271]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Facts are stubborn things.
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Feb 15, 2023, 9:03 AM
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No of course. He is a sub mediocre coach.
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Clemson Icon [24894]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Tell 'em coot. No one knows losing better than you.
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Feb 15, 2023, 7:52 AM
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Top TigerNet [30948]
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Re: Tell 'em coot. No one knows losing better than you.
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Feb 15, 2023, 8:07 AM
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this trollish reply is more annoying than a Judge Keller post about Brad Brownell.
I do wish you would show some intelligence and actually reply with some sort of logical response to further an opinion or discussion instead of this repetitive petty childish behavior. Its very cootlike.
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TigerNet Champion [117416]
TigerPulse: 100%
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The OP is not a Clemson fan, is a liar and a troll.***
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Feb 15, 2023, 8:08 AM
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Top TigerNet [30948]
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Re: The OP is not a Clemson fan, is liar and a troll.***
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Feb 15, 2023, 8:11 AM
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Oh I think we can all agree on that. But that one liner is wore out and just plain stoopid. Also, peak into clemson80's posts and replies, that one statement makes of 75% of his activity. Its boderline obsessive.
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Clemson Icon [24894]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Obsessive is when you feel the need to check poster history
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Feb 15, 2023, 8:13 AM
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Need I say more ?
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Top TigerNet [30948]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Obsessive is when you feel the need to check poster history
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Feb 15, 2023, 8:14 AM
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say what you will my friend.
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Y'all gotta just hug it out
Feb 15, 2023, 12:07 PM
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TigerNet Champion [117416]
TigerPulse: 100%
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CU Guru [1501]
TigerPulse: 76%
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Fully agreed! clemson80tiger over any stoopid coot,
Feb 15, 2023, 9:02 PM
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, any day of the week.
80's replies don't bother me in the least bit. His one sentence contains more IQ points than come_and _take_it's OP and all of his goofy-ass replies combined.
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Re: The OP is not a Clemson fan, is a liar and a troll.***
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Feb 15, 2023, 10:06 AM
[ in reply to The OP is not a Clemson fan, is a liar and a troll.*** ] |
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Im no great Clemson fan, sure, and I do have a bit of troll in me (dont we all).
But neither of those facts make me a liar.
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TigerNet Champion [117416]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Other than you, who suggested those two make you the third?***
Feb 15, 2023, 10:17 AM
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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I guess noone. Just assumed you wouldnt call me
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Feb 15, 2023, 12:09 PM
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a liar independent of the other two pejoratives.
But that's ok. Sling away.
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TigerNet Champion [117416]
TigerPulse: 100%
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You assumed, even though this bridge's been crossed before?
Feb 15, 2023, 12:38 PM
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And right on script, your victim card.
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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What are you talking about?
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Feb 16, 2023, 2:33 PM
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When I said "sling away" I wasn't thinking in terms of victim but more in terms of zoo animals.
I remember the time at the San Diego zoo the black rhino backed up and doused some kids with a stream of urine. The kids were annoying the rhino with their noise and whatnot so the rhino, whose brain is the size of a turnip, backed up and pee'd up their legs, so to speak.
HTH.
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TigerNet Champion [117416]
TigerPulse: 100%
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All this time to come up with that? You want a do over?
Feb 16, 2023, 2:41 PM
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You need one.
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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No. I'm good. I just got busy with life stuff
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Feb 16, 2023, 2:47 PM
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and forgot you were waiting on me to respond. Sorry for the delay.
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TigerNet Champion [117416]
TigerPulse: 100%
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No, you're not, you're tired as is your troll game.***
Feb 16, 2023, 2:49 PM
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Yes. Daddy's tired, little man.
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Feb 16, 2023, 3:06 PM
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TigerNet Champion [117416]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Yes, you are, princess. You were up late last night...
Feb 16, 2023, 3:29 PM
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giving out a TU.
Get some rest, precious.
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Clemson Icon [24894]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Joined: 2002
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Ultimate Tiger [34107]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Tell 'em coot. No one knows losing better than you.
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Feb 15, 2023, 8:48 AM
[ in reply to Re: Tell 'em coot. No one knows losing better than you. ] |
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Might even be more annoying than a JK post about Dabo and the football program. I agree - might have been funny once or twice and most things are ok in moderation.
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Clemson Icon [24894]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Joined: 2002
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LOL
Feb 15, 2023, 9:15 AM
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.
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Varsity [104]
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Valley Legend [12836]
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Re: Facts are stubborn things.
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Feb 15, 2023, 7:58 AM
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Cherry picking date to prove a point is lame and lazy.
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TigerNet Elite [69945]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Not sure if you are a basketball cultist, a football cultist
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Feb 15, 2023, 8:27 AM
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or a coot ... or all three.
🤔🤔🤔
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Clemson Conqueror [11358]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Barnes proved that Clemson CAN do well in basketball and
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Feb 15, 2023, 8:42 AM
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it doesn't need a watered down ACC to do it.
Brownell was a good hire at the time. He's more than had his shot, it's time to try someone else.
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Varsity [104]
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Yeah but who?
Feb 15, 2023, 9:14 AM
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Who is the person who both wants the job and can do better with it?
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Hall of Famer [9047]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Thats the most loser question in all of sports!
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Feb 15, 2023, 9:22 AM
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Who we gonna get? Who cares! You have to try something else. The idea that you might get someone just as bad or worse is utterly irrelevant. Not trying at all is the worst outcome possible.
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Hall of Famer [8862]
TigerPulse: 100%
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"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - The Great One***
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Feb 15, 2023, 9:28 AM
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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I dont know if I can get on board with the
Feb 15, 2023, 10:13 AM
[ in reply to Thats the most loser question in all of sports! ] |
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"do something...anything" thread.
"The devil you dont know ..." and all that.
I dont the AD is going to approach it that way, either.
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Hall of Famer [9047]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Again, thats a terrible argument
Feb 15, 2023, 1:46 PM
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Could we get worse? On paper maybe. But we dont make the tournament now, so does it really matter? Take the chance. The risk/reward ratio is way higher in favor of getting better.
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Tiger Titan [50775]
TigerPulse: 79%
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Why do we have to try something else?
Feb 15, 2023, 11:34 AM
[ in reply to Thats the most loser question in all of sports! ] |
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Why are you bringing this up in the middle of season where we are currently in the top four of the ACC, and had our best start to conference play in program history?
It sounds like you just don’t like Brownell and want a new coach, and aren’t basing it off of our current team at all.
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Dynasty Maker [3373]
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Re: Why do we have to try something else?
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Feb 15, 2023, 11:57 AM
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The current team isn’t going to make the tournament. So why not try something different. You cry about fan support and attendance, but fan support and attendance could be up if you make a change. Just the way things work. Make a change and the support will be up for a while. Could stay up depending on the outcome of games.
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Tiger Titan [50775]
TigerPulse: 79%
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Amazing that you’ve already decided that we aren’t making the tournament.
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Feb 15, 2023, 12:24 PM
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Are you a Clemson basketball fan?
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Heisman Winner [78081]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Easy now. He's not the one that lost to the coots, Loyola Chicago,
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Feb 15, 2023, 3:01 PM
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or the last three games. That's what's deciding that we're not making the NCAA Tournament, not him.
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Hall of Famer [8862]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Middle of the season? We have 6 games left
Feb 15, 2023, 12:08 PM
[ in reply to Why do we have to try something else? ] |
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Middle of the season we were #1 in the conference with a 2 game lead. Support was there, people were getting hesitantly excited for the potential of what could be. Now we're hoping we can stay in the top 4 and sitting on the bubble. I'm "hoping" we can find some magic and put together a nice run to close out the season and ACC tourney, but history, long-term and recent, is not in our favor. So much for our best start in history.
What are your thoughts if we miss the tournament?
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Tiger Titan [50775]
TigerPulse: 79%
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Joined: 2003
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Some of you just make stuff up.
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Feb 15, 2023, 12:25 PM
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We won our last four regular season games last year, so recent history doesn’t support your argument about a late season collapse being inevitable.
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Hall of Famer [8862]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Still no thoughts about missing the tournament?
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Feb 15, 2023, 12:45 PM
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As for winning last 4 games last year, that was after 6 Ls in a row. 1-1 in ACC tourney. No "big dance".
The last 6 years our record in the last six games has been:
4-2
5-1
3-3
4-2
2-4
3-3
21-15 = avg 3.5-2.5
So, historically, we are looking to go 4-2 or 3-3. Pretty much what most people are expecting. 4 wins against the bottom feeders and 2 Ls on the road at UVA and NCSU. Maybe 1-1 in ACC tourney? Who knows?
Does that get us in the "big dance"? What are your thoughts if we don't?
But by all means lets keep making stuff up
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CU Medallion [20860]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2009
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You are so full of it, you sad Tater hating troll.
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Feb 15, 2023, 3:33 PM
[ in reply to Some of you just make stuff up. ] |
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We won our last four after LOSING six in a row prior, all in February, a late season tank of epic proportions, absolutely killing any postseason chance the team had, including NIT. The only thing Brad managed to accomplish with that late flourish was saving his own skin.
You don't give a crap about Clemson basketball or Clemson in general. A complete and total phony you are.
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Oof. Dunno who your post is addressed to
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Feb 16, 2023, 7:11 PM
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but try not to get so worked up. Bad for your arteries.
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Oculus Spirit [42282]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2015
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We’ve all seen this story before, we know where this season is headed.it’s not about now
Feb 15, 2023, 12:36 PM
[ in reply to Why do we have to try something else? ] |
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It’s bout where we will be.
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Hall of Famer [9047]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Why? At this point dude you simply have to be trolling
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Feb 15, 2023, 1:47 PM
[ in reply to Why do we have to try something else? ] |
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Why is because making the tournament once a decade isnt good enough, nor should it be! Why is this so hard to understand? Accepting mediocrity is akin to accepting losing. Very little difference.
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Tiger Titan [50775]
TigerPulse: 79%
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Joined: 2003
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Sure, let’s get a new coach because we are tired of the current guy
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Feb 16, 2023, 10:40 PM
[ in reply to Thats the most loser question in all of sports! ] |
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and our fans will continue to have unrealistic expectations.
How do I know that?
Because most Clemson fans seem to expect us to be in the NCAA Tournament most years, but don’t care that we spend less on basketball than just about everyone in the ACC and also have among the lowest fan attendance in the ACC at our home games.
All this, on top of our history as a bad basketball program at a school that cares too much about football and too little about basketball.
But this amazing coach you envision is going to overcome all that, because “Clemson deserves it.” Yep, it’s so easy, just play fun basketball, be a cool guy, and remind players that Dabo is our football coach, and we will be a force to be reckoned with every March.
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Oculus Spirit [44661]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Posts: 11693
Joined: 2015
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Re: Yeah but who?
Feb 15, 2023, 7:40 PM
[ in reply to Yeah but who? ] |
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Who knows? You believe any of us knows between 100’s of current head and assistant coaches who might would do better? I honestly do not know but would sure like to investigate the possibilities.
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CU Medallion [18461]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2007
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Re: Facts are stubborn things.
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7
Feb 15, 2023, 8:47 AM
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You can just write “I’m not a Clemson fan” and save a lot of digital ink. This sloppy regurgitation of JK’s basketball fallacies lacks his finesse.
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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I didnt consult with JK on my post.
Feb 15, 2023, 10:17 AM
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But you are correct in that I do not match his finesse.
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CU Medallion [18461]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2007
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Re: I didnt consult with JK on my post.
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Feb 15, 2023, 11:11 AM
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To regurgitate someone’s opinions does not require consultation. hth
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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I understand.
Feb 15, 2023, 12:02 PM
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No worries, though. Seems much of your thought life is susbsumed by JK. Therefore its understandable you'd paint any opinion resembling his with the same brush.
Carry on!
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National Champion [7271]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Facts are stubborn things.
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Feb 15, 2023, 9:05 AM
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CBB is a sub mediocre coach. If GN retains him he deserves the same moniker.
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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I think Neff is going to get rid of him
Feb 15, 2023, 12:28 PM
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if they miss the tourney. Ive waffled on that but after Saturday's debacle ...
But I'd like to see him get another year. I think he's earned that.
Of course, he may pull stakes of his own accord...
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Orange Blooded [4083]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Only those younger than 45 can believe CBB is our goat
Feb 15, 2023, 9:42 AM
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Through the mid-90’s (Shyatt was a low point) we were a decent program. If you are less than 45, I understand the delusion.
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CU Medallion [20860]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Posts: 14648
Joined: 2009
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We've been a drab, middling, not ready for prime time
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Feb 15, 2023, 10:06 AM
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program for so long now with Brad that many are simply getting inured to the condition and losing sight of past potential we've shown. OP's 3 NCAA's in a row run was no accident. Nor was Barnes'. We see how hard it is just to make one of these. The longer this goes on, the more the 'as good as it gets' mentality will take hold.
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Paw Warrior [4808]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Facts are stubborn things.
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Feb 15, 2023, 10:25 AM
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These are the kinds of facts that kept Tommy Bowden around a few more years than he should have been.
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Orange Immortal [65632]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2000
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Time to move on. Plenty of coaches out there who can keep
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Feb 15, 2023, 10:53 AM
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us mid-pack in the ACC. Plenty. Maybe some of them can get us above that, and brownell has proven for a fact that he cannot. There is no debate. Clemson basketball, under Brownell, has been, as a matter of cold, hard fact - mediocre. It defines mediocre. End of story. Period. So, if you want to continue with that, keep Brownell - you know for a fact that's waht you will get. It's very possible that whe could hire a new coach that could do even worse (Larry Shyatt). But there is also a chance somebody could do better, and if we are not willing to try to be better than mediocre, if we are truly satisfied with that, then scrap the men's basketball program, pour all of that money into wimmin's bassetball, and maybe we could compete with the coot hens, and have something to be proud of.
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Clemson Icon [26363]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Facts are stubborn things.
Feb 15, 2023, 11:14 AM
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🤣🤣🤣
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CU Medallion [20925]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Posts: 15348
Joined: 2010
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Re: Facts are stubborn things.
Feb 15, 2023, 12:14 PM
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On paper, Brownell *is* the best (most successful) men's bball coach Clemson's ever had.
Let's agree on that. It's not even close. Even Purnell, who was purdy good, posted four losing conference records in seven seasons.
Brownell's put up five in 13.
Here's the pivot:
Clemson's just an average program. Maybe good at times but perennially, just "meh."
Some of you arent satisfied with that. (And some of you just love trolling those of us, like JK, who dont think bball gets the support it should.)
But it's not the easiest conference to win (this year being a rare exception). (Oh, and the ACC being a marquis conference is another indisputable fact, btw.)
That said, Brownell has done remarkably well and should leave on his terms.
good luck finding a coach that can match his success.
... I believe he is stating ACC Basketball has never been worse. On that point, Come_and_take_it® is correct. Back in the day, before one-and-done, 6th in the ACC was strong.
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Partially.
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Feb 15, 2023, 12:30 PM
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The ACC usually is to bball what the SEC usually is to football. Agreed.
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Game Changer [1977]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Re: Facts are stubborn things.
Feb 15, 2023, 6:11 PM
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That "fact" is entirely dependent on how you define success.
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Freshman [-94]
TigerPulse: 68%
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This is hilarious!
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Feb 15, 2023, 7:20 PM
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This is a perfect example of cherry picking your statistics.
Brownell is not as good as Rick Barnes, who was the most talented coach we ever had, but if you look at the NCAA tournament, which is ultimately the measuring stick, then I will successful coach is Cliff Ellis.
Brownell has also been coaching with the most support from the administration, the best facilities, and the weakest ACC in history. He has had every advantage that other coaches have not and he sucks!
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Oculus Spirit [44661]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2015
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Re: This is hilarious!
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Feb 15, 2023, 7:45 PM
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Some of Cliff’s and Rick’s teams would wax the floor with most of anything Brownell has put on the floor.
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CU Guru [1501]
TigerPulse: 76%
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Not true, at all.
Feb 15, 2023, 7:31 PM
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How long you been a fan?
Your take is waaaay off.
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Not way off. Waaaaaaaaay off.
Feb 16, 2023, 8:12 AM
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Valuable insight - thank you.
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Freshman [-100]
TigerPulse: 66%
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Brownell is Tommy Bowden v2.0
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Feb 16, 2023, 8:49 AM
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Give Buck a chance!
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Ultimate Tiger [33254]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2011
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Where is he now ?***
Feb 16, 2023, 9:21 AM
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Freshman [-100]
TigerPulse: 66%
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Associate HC for Cleveland Cavs
Feb 16, 2023, 10:05 AM
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#HireBuck
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CU Medallion [20860]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 14648
Joined: 2009
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We have lots of this season left to finish with a NCAA
Feb 16, 2023, 7:31 PM
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flourish. If not, I would hope Buckner would be A#1 on a candidates list.
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Hall of Famer [8226]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Facts are stubborn things.
Feb 16, 2023, 8:16 PM
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Oh gooood Godddd.
How are you defining success?, he's been here the longest? He's beaten the most tomato cans? Outside of one good season, his tenure has been unremarkable.
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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As is your take.
Feb 16, 2023, 11:00 PM
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That Clemson is an unremarkable bball school is hardly his doing and yet, he's had the best run of the litter.
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Paw Master [17198]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Posts: 17026
Joined: 2004
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Speaking of facts
Feb 17, 2023, 6:27 AM
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Brownlee has lost more games than any coach in the history of Clemson basketball.
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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And he's also won more and coached more.
Feb 17, 2023, 7:42 PM
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Nolan Ryan ... the most strikeouts ... the most walks.
One doesnt negate the other.
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