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Replies: 25
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Legend [7010]
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The Defensive numbers don't lie
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Dec 22, 2024, 2:44 PM
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There was another thread stating that our defense was 8th last year (inference that this is an anomaly) which led to discussion whether thats the right stat to use.
Well here are 10 main defensive stats from Veneble's last year (2021) through this year. The numbers listed are national rankings.
Scoring D - Result WORSE
2>22>32>54
Pass D - Result WORSE
34>77>8>57
Rush D - Result WORSE
7>13>24>86
Total D - Result WORSE
8>28>8>73
Penalties - Result BETTER
120>108>50>84
Turnovers - Result BETTER
60>63>2>14
Sacks - Result WORSE
9>4>39>21
3rd Down Conversion % - Result WORSE
24>40>17>45
4th Down Conversion % - Result BETTER
26>10>40>19
Redzone Conversion % - Result WORSE
2>58>64>51
So Wes has taken a stacked defense with tons of talent that Veneble's put together and in 7 out of 10 areas we have become WORSE.
Wes HAS to go. The numbers do't lie
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Hall of Famer [8484]
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Re: The Defensive numbers don't lie
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Dec 22, 2024, 2:47 PM
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Does the whole staff get fired? Because from what I saw this year the D had a whole lot more problems than just play calling.
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Ring of Honor [23740]
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Nah, just Wes. I am sure you were defending Streeter too.***
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Dec 22, 2024, 2:49 PM
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Hall of Famer [8484]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Nah, just Wes. I am sure you were defending Streeter too.***
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Dec 22, 2024, 2:51 PM
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Nope. And I’m not defending Wes. Just saying there are a more problems than just him.
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Legend [7010]
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Re: The Defensive numbers don't lie
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Dec 22, 2024, 2:51 PM
[ in reply to Re: The Defensive numbers don't lie ] |
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I mentioned in the other thread I think Reed is a keeper, he has a long track record of success. I could get behind Eason staying, his DT were decimated all year and his best player was moved to DE plus he is a good recruiter. THE END
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Hall of Famer [8484]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: The Defensive numbers don't lie
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Dec 22, 2024, 2:53 PM
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Agree. Reed is the man. No problem with keeping Eason and Rumph (he was left with nothing).
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All-Pro [710]
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Game Changer [1994]
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Re: The Defensive numbers don't lie
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Dec 22, 2024, 2:49 PM
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Enough of the fire the DC posts. We all know and agree he needs to go. It will happen but not during Christmas.
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Legend [7010]
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Re: The Defensive numbers don't lie
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Dec 22, 2024, 2:52 PM
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Good point, the TNET database is almost full. We should reserve space for more important threads.
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Orange Blooded [2280]
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Wow. 86th rush D. That start alone is just
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Dec 22, 2024, 2:50 PM
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mind blowing.
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Valley Legend [12651]
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Re: The Defensive numbers don't lie
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Dec 22, 2024, 2:54 PM
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Venables had more talent to work with plus a complimentary offense. Apples to oranges comparison due to these factors.
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Hall of Famer [8484]
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Re: The Defensive numbers don't lie
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Dec 22, 2024, 2:59 PM
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According to many on here they think we have the same level of talent. Need some of what they are smoking.
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Legend [7010]
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Re: The Defensive numbers don't lie
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Dec 22, 2024, 3:16 PM
[ in reply to Re: The Defensive numbers don't lie ] |
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Thats part of the problem but there isnt great ways to measure talent besides their HS/JUCO star rankings but all of that was based off what they did before then.
Granted these aren't all of the ways you could look at this. But we do have a complimentary offense this year AND it continues to get worse.
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CU Guru [1574]
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Re: The Defensive numbers don't lie
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Dec 22, 2024, 3:09 PM
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When you mentioned the argument about the defense being 8th last year, the statistics that you just posted aren't really addressing that argument. If you compare any metric from this year to 2021, then yeah almost all of them will be worse for this year, because this year's defense was much worse. That doesn't really contradict the idea that the defense in 2023 was comparable to previous defenses.
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Legend [7010]
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Re: The Defensive numbers don't lie
Dec 22, 2024, 4:33 PM
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Last year stats were the best indicator at this time last year. But we have new numbers that are more relevant., which are indicating that last year on that ONE stat was the anomaly. Just me but I don’t think you can look at just one data point and draw a conclusion.
Plus when looking at the trends of his 3 years things are worse because as you pointed out, the D is much worse. That’s kinda the whole point. And we have the overall talent to be a top 15 D with a competent DC.
I am looking at 10 stats from where we started to where we are now. These aren’t the only things to look at statistically but just ones I thought were important
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CU Guru [1574]
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Re: The Defensive numbers don't lie
Dec 22, 2024, 4:39 PM
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The new numbers aren't more relevant, if we are trying to measure Goodwin's coaching ability. If he couldn't coach at all, all three years should be similar. If he had two pretty good years, and one bad year, that's more indicative that there was a drop in talent.
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Legend [7010]
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Re: The Defensive numbers don't lie
Dec 22, 2024, 8:48 PM
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How are this years numbers not more relevant than last years? It’s literally the most recent data we have that subjectively ranks the D in various categoriess.
We share worse now, after 3 full season of Wes, than we were when he took over in 70% of those measures. He has talent, we just aren’t getting the most out of it
Talent is part of it but he is also the DC. He should be recruiting talent to replace talent. He isn’t. If he has holes he needs to do whatever it takes to get a portal kid. Those things are in large part on him.
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National Champion [7978]
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weren't u pumping this team a few weeks ago ?***
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Dec 22, 2024, 3:10 PM
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Legend [7010]
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Re: weren't u pumping this team a few weeks ago ?***
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Dec 22, 2024, 3:23 PM
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"Pumping" them? You mean saying things like "we are winning out" and "Natty bound baby!"? No that wasnt me. Am I usually more positive than negative? Yup that is just who I am.
But I've been on the "fire Wes" bandwagon for most of the year.
I am able to think we have a pretty decent team with a high ceiling, a great HC, a very solid OC, great fans, amazing atmosphere AND call out what I see as a glaring weakness.
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National Champion [7978]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: weren't u pumping this team a few weeks ago ?***
Dec 22, 2024, 4:41 PM
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😊
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Top TigerNet [30181]
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Joined: 2011
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Add TFLs too
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Dec 22, 2024, 3:20 PM
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We used to get after offenses and have elaborate blitzes to keep QBs, lines, and OCs off guard.
Now if we bring 5 or 6, the whole world knows and knows where they're coming from.
Thanks for putting this together
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Game Changer [1736]
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Re: Add TFLs too
Dec 22, 2024, 4:40 PM
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Agree. Thanks for the research on stats. Anybody with eyes can see the decline on the field, the people that don’t want to admit it won’t even see it in black and white
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Game Changer [1924]
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Re: Add TFLs too
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Dec 22, 2024, 4:40 PM
[ in reply to Add TFLs too ] |
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If you were a 4* or 5* high school senior, would you have Wes as your #1 choice to coach you? I wouldn't.
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Ring of Honor [21088]
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Re: The Defensive numbers don't lie
Dec 22, 2024, 8:35 PM
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Shouldn't this stat be labeled better?
Sacks - Result WORSE
9>4>39>21
I assume this is number of sacks made by the Clemson defense?
Your point still stands, just wondering if I am misinterpreting this stat.
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Legend [7010]
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Re: The Defensive numbers don't lie
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Dec 22, 2024, 8:42 PM
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Ahh I see how you’re seeing it.
But we were 9th in the country in getting sacks. Now we ended up 21st in getting sacks. So compared to the rest of CFB we got worse by 12 spots
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Ring of Honor [21088]
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Re: The Defensive numbers don't lie
Dec 22, 2024, 9:56 PM
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Ah, got it. Thanks for the clarification.
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Replies: 25
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