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Who Christians think are going to hell
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Dec 21, 2024, 8:02 PM
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I am not as religious as I would like to be. I think that generally speaking religious people just are good guys who want to be good people and they feel they can exhibit that through their religion.
The big reason I can’t go all in with Christianity is it bothers me that the Bible states if you aren’t a Christian you’re going to hell. If I’m wrong with this, please correct me. But I think that’s what the Bible says. So I guess this means all of the Asians and Hindu and Buddhist are burning in hell. This is always been a huge problem for me. Asians are not evil obviously and there are many great Asian people out there that have spent their whole life helping people. Why do they deserve to go to hell?
I’m hoping someone out there is wise enough to make me excuse this somehow and become more Christian. This is always been something that has held me back. It just doesn’t make any sense to me and seems just completely wrong.
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CU Medallion [20182]
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Individually or as a group? A culture or a particular nationality?
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Dec 21, 2024, 10:52 PM
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What does the Bible say about it? Do you think the Bible is true revelation given to creation by God? If so, start with that and learn what it teaches. If not, might be you prefer to come back as a sacred cow someday? (shrugging)
What you know doesn't make you a "better" Christian, but it can help one learn what it takes to be a Christian.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [102348]
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If we reckon God the figure we produce is always going to be relative to us.
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Dec 22, 2024, 8:07 AM
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We then would do what we think would please that god we conjured and consider others relative to how we live and behave. Let's pretend that we don't justify the things we do that we believe to be bad behavior and have never been disappointed in ourselves. After all, if god is relative to our reckoning then whatever we deem righteous is ok with him.
That's a problem for God is not relative to us, He is Holy. When we say there are good Hebrew, Muslims, Hindi and Buddhist or even good Christians we are using ourselves as the frame of reference. I'm not attacking you and I'm trying not to be offensive but the truth is harsh. I know, I face it everyday.
That's human nature and we are all cursed with that burden for it attends us when we are born. We decide good and bad, evil and righteousness and judge ourselves along with others according to our determinations.
God is Holy. Holy is one of those words like infinite, eternal and everlasting. We can provide a definition for them but have absolutely no measure. Measure is a fundamental need in all humans, that's how we evaluate others, conditions/circumstances and reaction(s). God is Holy.
Actually, we are all religious and your religion is just as faithful as the strongest Hebrew, Muslim, Hindi, Buddhist or Christian for there are many who judge others according to the god they created with their speculations and imaginations. God is Holy and holy is one of those concepts we get but will never reach it because we have no idea of when we would achieve being holy. Our minds don't conceive the infinite, eternal or everlasting.
The all knowing God who exist knows this and that one of His reasons to relieve us of the burden of judging others. In judging others we use ourselves, establish things we approve and those we forbid. In essence we draw lines which we refuse to cross.
One will steal a candy bar but would never rob a widow. Other might rob a widow but never rob a bank. Some might not steal but have no problem lying or allowing others to be deceived by withholding the truth for personal gain. Some call that business.
We all draw that line and we're all wrong because we determine where that line is drawn according to that which we allow and that which we forbid. "Who Christians think are going to hell," keyed this exercise and with it comes the end.
There is a line drawn by God who is Holy. It's at the foot of the Cross where Jesus was crucified. On one side is the only begotten Son of God who lived a holy life. The rest of us are on the other side of that line, we are not holy and the gods we conjured are foolish delusions intended to satisfy ourselves.
'For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.'
Deciding who goes to hell is way above my paygrade, all I'm commissioned to do is tell others how to avoid hell. God handles the condemnation part.
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Orange Immortal [64943]
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Simple question, and we've sorta been here before.
Dec 23, 2024, 4:36 PM
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If God wanted to, could he create an existence for humanity which included total freedom for us to live this earthly existence as we choose, and always resulted in spending eternity in heaven with him, bathed in his love and unconditional acceptance?
Explain and break it down all you want, but FIRST, give a direct "yes" or "no" answer.
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CU Medallion [20182]
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You sparked a question within me
Dec 26, 2024, 6:49 AM
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You asked if one could live in heaven after living this earthly life however they wanted... under this circumstance, does that step into eternity result into everyone being conformed to God's will or still living however one wants? With no change in character, attitude, or reciprocal of love for God and who He is?
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [102348]
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I believe I will be who God wants me to be at last.
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Dec 26, 2024, 9:24 AM
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I believe I have a curse of flesh about me that wars against the Spirit God birthed within me when He saved my soul. I believe that is the definition of 'getting saved.' This flesh will die and what's left will be the creature God created at my spiritual birth. I believe that to be true of all who are born again.
So I will live in Heaven and never get tired of praising God and the joy of His presence about me. I may go out kicking and begging for another day but that won't last very long at all.
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Orange Immortal [64943]
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CU Medallion [20182]
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You are the one trying to change the parameters, not me.
Dec 26, 2024, 2:25 PM
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We already have the outline of the Christian faith. You want it to be changed. I ask because I thought it would be an interesting question to see where you thought this "idea" would lead {if} the circumstance allowed for it.
Are you not willing to say what you want it to be like in heaven after you have lived however you want here on earth?
You know, outline what the difference will be, in your model, between mortal life and eternal life.
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Orange Immortal [64943]
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I want to change the outline of the Christian faith?????????????????????
Dec 27, 2024, 11:19 AM
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I'm just asking a simple, direct question, trying to engage in conversation to understand how and why people believe what they believe. I'm not trying to change anything. The fact that nobody will answer, and instead avoids doing so consistently is very telling. I'll show you what it looks like to simply respond, directly and honestly, without avoiding, deflecting, or running away.
We already have the outline of the Christian faith. Basically, yes, I agree.
You want it to be changed. No, I don't.
Are you not willing to say what you want it to be like in heaven after you have lived however you want here on earth? Sure. I believe God loves us unconditionally, and therefore when we are done here, on earth, with this existence, we will be bathed in God's love. That's what I want, and what I believe.
You know, outline what the difference will be, in your model, between mortal life and eternal life. I believe we are here in this earthly life to learn and grow, not as a one-chance pass/fail test where the only options God can offer, or would choose to offer, are eternity wrapped in his love, or eternity suffering horrifically in hell. Here we experience a perceived separation from God and our own souls to some extent, but in heaven that all goes away.
Now, that's how you do it; it's easy. Simple and direct. Before you respond to that, respond directly to to my original question:
If God wanted to, could he create an existence for humanity which included total freedom for us to live this earthly existence as we choose, and always resulted in spending eternity in heaven with him, bathed in his love and unconditional acceptance?
Explain and break it down all you want, but FIRST, give a direct "yes" or "no" answer.
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CU Medallion [20182]
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ok
Dec 27, 2024, 1:23 PM
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No.
Not because He couldn't, but because in His infinite wisdom He knew it would be better not to.
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Orange Immortal [64943]
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Thanks
Dec 27, 2024, 2:26 PM
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But again this is nonsense.
The question was "Could he ..."
Your answer is "No, but it's not that he couldn't".
You just said that No, he could not, but it is not that he could not.
W. T. F.?
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CU Medallion [20182]
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Re: Thanks
Dec 27, 2024, 4:47 PM
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You seem like a smart fellow. You'll figure it out.
... or not. maybe not. I guess it will depend on what you [want]. Same as how your heaven will be... or not.
LOL
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Orange Immortal [64943]
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Which is it? Why are you still avoiding giving a straight answer?
Dec 27, 2024, 8:55 PM
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Me: Could God do "A" if he wanted to?
You: No, he could not. But it's not that he couldn't; it's because he chooses not to.
You can't have it both ways.
I answered and addressed all of your stuff honestly and directly. I didn't dodge or deflect. Why can't you do the same for me? Or, if you are not interested in engaging in a discussion, but are just here to play games or give your opinion and walk away, that's fine; just say so and I will leave you alone.
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CU Medallion [20182]
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Re: Which is it? Why are you still avoiding giving a straight answer?
Dec 27, 2024, 10:07 PM
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You are not interested in conversation. You have proven that many times over. This "conversation" began because I asked a genuine question on what your concept of heaven would be like if people could live anyway they wanted - would heaven be the same way? You couldn't handle that question which was an attempt to genuinely get an idea of your concept about heaven. It was not about What God can do or not do. But you want to make it that and turn away from the real conversation I tried to start with you... And to top it off, you "want", no, you [demand] a yes or no answer because you "want" to control the "conversation." Which is not one at all.
You don't have control. I have answered you plainly and you couldn't handle it - because it didn't fit into your parameters. Did you think that it would? I did not.
Perhaps you don't have a handle on this as much as you think you do. You certainly cannot force a "conversation" to be only what you "want."
I agree with you in this regard, however. If you can't learn how to actually have a "conversation" then you should just walk away from this one. I am, of my own accord. Not because you "want' me too. Because I "want" to.
Really hope you figure it all out.
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Orange Immortal [64943]
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What a load of crap, all in an effort to avoid my question (again).
Dec 28, 2024, 11:04 AM
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This "conversation" began because I asked a genuine question on what your concept of heaven would be like if people could live anyway they wanted - would heaven be the same way?
That is demonstably false. This attempt at discussion on my part began not with you, but with a response to 1988, and in that response I asked him (not you, even though I welcome your response) a question. You responded to my question, not with an answer, but it was you who attempted to control and redirect the conversation by not answering my question, but totally ignoring it and asking a different question of your own.
That's the way the "conversation" in this thread started between you and me. You ignored and would not answer my question.
Still, I answered yours first, honestly and directly, with no unnecessary commentary in an attempt to deflect or control. Just a straightforward reply directly to your question(s). You absolutely refuse to respond in kind
You don't have control. I have answered you plainly and you couldn't handle it - because it didn't fit into your parameters. For you (not me), this is ENTIRELY about control, unless asking for a straight answer makes me a control freak. You are the one who continues to avoid. Example:
Me (to 1988): Is water wet? Yes or no?
You: How was the earth formed, and how has it changed over time?
Me: Say what? Just answer my question.
You: We already know how the earth was formed. You are trying to change everything.
Me: What? Well, okay. The earth was formed by W and changed in the following ways over time: X, Y, and Z. Now, answer my question: Is water wet?
You: Yes. Except when it's not.
Me: That's no answer.
You: You don't control the conversation.
I don't blame you. If you are committed to the belief that God is both all-powerful and therefore can do absolutely anything he wants, and all-loving and therefore would not cause or allow any unnecessary suffering, and if your entire belief system is based on that idea, it's a very difficult question to answer. I understand why people avoid it.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [102348]
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Orange Immortal [64943]
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Thanks 88!***
Dec 28, 2024, 12:40 PM
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National Champion [7136]
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National Champion [7136]
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National Champion [7136]
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Re: Simple question, and we've sorta been here before.
Feb 5, 2025, 9:27 PM
[ in reply to Simple question, and we've sorta been here before. ] |
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God could and can do anything He wants to do.
He set up the plan of salvation the way he set it up because that is how He wanted to do it. He is Sovereign. He gets to make the rules.
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I have always understood it as
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Dec 22, 2024, 8:25 AM
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if you know about Jesus an you know his teachings, but turn your back on him, that is the issue.
If you don’t know. You don’t know.
But if you do know and you don’t heed the calling, youse in trouble.
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Re: I have always understood it as
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Dec 22, 2024, 12:36 PM
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What happens if you have heard, but you have a bad teacher?
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [102348]
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God's Spirit is the teacher.***
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Dec 23, 2024, 6:20 AM
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Orange Immortal [64943]
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So, when it comes to salvation, "hearing the message" or studying the
Dec 23, 2024, 4:48 PM
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Bible and going to church are all totally unnecessary, since The Spirit gives everyone everything they need.
For example, if you are raised in an Islamic country where everyone around you is Muslim, and your whole reality is built around that culture, God, through the spirit, presents his proper message of accepting Jesus and rejecting all others to you in a way that is fully believable and convincing, leaving no doubt, and if you don't accept and follow, you deserve to burn in agony for eternity?
To me, that's a very strange, nonsensical concept of a loving, all-powerful creator
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [102348]
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Re: So, when it comes to salvation, "hearing the message" or studying the
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Dec 24, 2024, 7:52 AM
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Psalms 65:
"4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple."
Take it up with God.
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Orange Immortal [64943]
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Re: So, when it comes to salvation, "hearing the message" or studying the
Dec 24, 2024, 10:13 AM
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Take it up with God.
Okay. How?
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [102348]
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^^^best question ever asked
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Dec 26, 2024, 9:18 AM
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Shed pride and be humble. We can't come to God with terms we set. From Psa 119:
"33 HE. Teach me, O LORD, the way of thy statutes; and I shall keep it unto the end.
34 Give me understanding, and I shall keep thy law; yea, I shall observe it with my whole heart.
35 Make me to go in the path of thy commandments; for therein do I delight.
36 Incline my heart unto thy testimonies, and not to covetousness.
37 Turn away mine eyes from beholding vanity; and quicken thou me in thy way.
38 Stablish thy word unto thy servant, who is devoted to thy fear.
39 Turn away my reproach which I fear: for thy judgments are good.
40 Behold, I have longed after thy precepts: quicken me in thy righteousness."
This, of course, was written by someone after God's heart
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Orange Immortal [64943]
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Thanks.
Dec 26, 2024, 9:45 AM
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It's important to acknowledge that people do that every day, to the extent it's possible, and come away with very different understandings and results. Insisting otherwise doesn't make it so.
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Dynasty Maker [3507]
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Re: So, when it comes to salvation, "hearing the message" or studying the
Dec 26, 2024, 10:58 AM
[ in reply to So, when it comes to salvation, "hearing the message" or studying the ] |
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I remember I was at a youth conference as a chaperone some years ago. It was a multi day conference. On the last day they had a very well known pastor speaking (he was later accused of sexual assault but that's not pertinent).
During his message he said I had a man come to me one time and ask what about people who have never heard the gospel, what happens to them? I sat up in my chair anticipating his answer. He said I told the man, why are you worried about other people, you should be worried about your own salvation. I thought wow, really? That's it?
William Lane Craig, a well known apologist that you've probably heard of, answers the question like this:
"So my suggestion is that God as an all-loving God wants as many people as possible to be saved and he wants as few as possible to be lost. So what God has done is to create a world having an optimal balance between saved and lost. A world that involves the maximum number of saved for the minimum number of lost people. And he gives sufficient grace for salvation to everyone whom he creates. Everyone can be saved if they want to be saved. [3] But God knows that many of the lost will reject his every effort to save them and separate themselves from him forever and be lost. But nevertheless, in his mercy and love, God has created a world with an optimal balance between saved and lost.
And moreover he has so ordered the world that those who never hear the Gospel and are lost are only people who would not have believed in the Gospel and been saved even if they had heard it. In other words, anyone who would have believed the Gospel and been saved if he heard it, is born at a time and place in history where he does hear it. What that would mean, Kevin, is that no one could stand before God on the Judgment Day and say, “All right God, I rejected your revelation in nature and conscience, but if only I’d heard the Gospel, then I would have been saved.” And God will say to him, “No, I knew that even if you had heard the Gospel, you would not have received it. Therefore my judgment of you on the basis of your response to nature and conscience is neither unloving nor unjust.” I think that what I said at first by showing that those assumptions are false takes the sting out of it.
This is a positive proof that it is entirely consistent to affirm that God is all-powerful and all-loving and yet some people never hear the Gospel and are lost. So if my scenario is even possible, it shows that those truths are entirely consistent."
https://www.reasonablefaith.org/media/reasonable-faith-podcast/what-about-those-who-have-never-heard
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [102348]
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That's how I understand it and I elaborated a few times here about how...
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Dec 27, 2024, 9:05 AM
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that is possible relative to God being eternal and seeing this world as a finite segment of eternity and able to see the beginning, all points on that line and the end from a stationary position in eternity.
If God chooses you He will find you. It doesn't matter if you're in the the deepest jungle of Africa, the coldest part of Alaska or at the center of the Amazon forest. He will send someone to bring His Word to you or will draw you to a place where the Gospel is preached.
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Orange Immortal [64943]
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That's nonsense. Nothing more than dancing and bobbing and weaving
Dec 27, 2024, 12:13 PM
[ in reply to Re: So, when it comes to salvation, "hearing the message" or studying the ] |
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and rationalizing ... starting committed to a particular belief, then stretching and reaching and bending, doing anything and everything to make it everything seem to fit. Just think about it.
1. God is all powerful.
2. God wants as many people as possible to be saved.
3. Everybody is not saved.
God doesn't get what he wants. Unless something is not possible for him.
“No, I knew that even if you had heard the Gospel, you would not have received it. Therefore my judgment of you on the basis of your response to nature and conscience is neither unloving nor unjust.”
God creates people knowing they will not accept him, and must go to Hell. If he loves them, why does create them knowing they will go to hell? Either he has to do it that way (not all-powerful) or he chooses to (not all-loving).
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National Champion [7136]
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Re: That's nonsense. Nothing more than dancing and bobbing and weaving
Feb 6, 2025, 8:14 PM
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No. God saves everyone He predestined to be saved. He loses not fails to save even one of His elect.
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National Champion [7136]
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Re: God's Spirit is the teacher.***
Dec 26, 2024, 10:44 AM
[ in reply to God's Spirit is the teacher.*** ] |
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That spirit won't teach someone which religion to believe in.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [102348]
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No, He won't.
Dec 27, 2024, 8:50 AM
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Religion is man's way of making himself acceptable to God. God's Spirit teaches us that we will never be acceptable to God by our own efforts. That's called conviction for it is our sin which prevents that.
Now, it's a fateful thing to learn you'll never be good enough. It's like a kid who played baseball all throughout his childhood then gets cut half way thought the first day of tryouts in high school and realizes he will never make a profession from that sport.
He's been a batboy for the team his entire life and knows every position, he knows what the LFer does when there's a runner on first and the ball is a hot grounder to short. He knows what the RFer does when the SS fields a ball hit hot between 2nd and 1st. He knows it all but he's just too slow to get where he's supposed to be.
That's a religious man. We can all read the Bible and know how to live but it's too late for we've all been cut from the team. We know we shouldn't lust for women and they are half naked all around us. WE know we shouldn't drive by that rich guys house and wish we had his money but the rich are all about us. We know we shouldn't hate but the world is filled with hateful men.
God's Spirit leads us to understand that there is only one escape from the sin within us and that's the Blood of God's Holy Son who gave His life to take on the condemnation we all deserve.
Religion has nothing to do with it, LesterWagner1990.
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Re: No, He won't.
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Dec 27, 2024, 10:37 AM
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A person may feel the spirit of a god or higher power possibly. I don't doubt that they feel something or think they do. I have before. There is nothing other than the word of man though that will make them believe in Jesus Christ or whichever direction they go about choosing their religion.
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CU Medallion [20182]
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Take a good look at John 3:17
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Dec 22, 2024, 10:46 PM
[ in reply to I have always understood it as ] |
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Why would God send His Son as a sacrifice if everyone who doesn't know is "OK"? Wouldn't [everyone] be OK if Jesus just never came?
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Re: Take a good look at John 3:17
Feb 6, 2025, 8:16 PM
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Because the Bible does not teach those who never heard are OK. Paul plainly tells us they are not ok.
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Dynasty Maker [3507]
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Re: Who Christians think are going to hell
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Dec 22, 2024, 11:42 AM
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I read this post before going to church this morning and it’s funny the pastor made the statement that based on Matthew 25 hell is real however, he failed to mention who Jesus actually says will go there. It’s not based on belief but rather what you do or don’t do for the poor. Basically how you treat people.
So what I don’t understand is if you are a literalist regarding hell and say that it is real, and the fire is real, then why are you not a literalist about who Jesus says will go there?
If you want to point to John 3:16 remember Jesus just says those who do not believe are condemned, but not that they are going to hell.
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The only thing wrong with us thinking about who goes to hell is that...
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Dec 22, 2024, 12:30 PM
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those who think about it are neither commissioned nor qualified to judge. As said previously, only God is Holy and qualified to make those judgements because He is The creator.
We are not intended to behave like someone purchasing a car on a used car lot. We don't get to test drive the lives of other or kick the tires. Thus, Romans 2:
"1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things."
That specifically forbids judging others and it make no mention of judging them either faithful nor unfaithful.
We may know a tree by the fruit it bears but we are not tree inspectors nor are we allowed to make determinations or proclamations. Just as we avoid eating apples from a tree that's diseased or corrupted we should avoid people who bear bad fruit. Condemnation belongs to God for in the Blood of His Son only are we judged just.
I'm not claiming one Christian can't recognized God's Spirit within another but that's God's Spirit's work, not ours. We are simply blessed to know one another.
Message was edited by: ClemsonTiger1988®
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Orange Immortal [64943]
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It's not about being qualified to judge who goes to h3ll or heaven.
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Dec 23, 2024, 4:57 PM
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It's about understanding what is truly required, if anything, which would be necessary if we want to get it right, and having a clear understanding of what actually happens either way. The judgement part would absolutely be totally up to God. Wanting to know and understand the requirements beyond all doubt requires no judgement of others.
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110%er [3896]
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Re: Who Christians think are going to hell
Dec 24, 2024, 7:25 AM
[ in reply to Re: Who Christians think are going to hell ] |
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John 3:18: He who believes in Him is not condemed; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 5:24: Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment.
Lack of belief = condemnation.
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Dynasty Maker [3507]
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Re: Who Christians think are going to hell
Dec 24, 2024, 9:23 AM
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Couple of things
1. What is condemnation? That could mean a lot of different things.
2. Matthew’s gospel has Jesus giving contradicting statements on who and what sends someone to hell…In this passage Jesus has the perfect opportunity to present the faith over works doctrine clear and concise but he doesn’t. In response to “I have works” he doesn’t say you lack faith, he says give everything to the poor, and then you will have eternal life.
Matthew 19:16-24
16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”
17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”
18 “Which ones?” he inquired.
Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[c] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’[d]”
20 “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”
21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.
23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”
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Clemson Icon [25936]
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Re: Who Christians think are going to hell
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Dec 22, 2024, 5:49 PM
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As I read it, the bible doesnt say that. It instead says everyone is lost, regardless of religious affiliation or moral philosophy. The story of the bible seems to be, 'okay, now what?'
Religion predated the bible. The bible says all are lost. That tells you something about the value of religion.
Message was edited by: CUintulsa®
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Dynasty Maker [3507]
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Re: Who Christians think are going to hell
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Dec 23, 2024, 12:54 PM
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Believing that the Bible is authoritative is a religious belief.
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National Champion [7136]
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Re: Who Christians think are going to hell
Dec 23, 2024, 8:17 PM
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Christianity is an exclusive religion. It is by far not the only exclusive religion.
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Varsity [100]
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Re: Who Christians think are going to hell
Dec 24, 2024, 11:11 PM
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Religions are belief systems that are based on trying to appease a god or reach a certain standard that in turn gives them an afterlife or a better future existence.
True Christianity is totally different. The God of the Bible knows that man can never live up to His standard of perfection (holiness) so He makes a way for man to be saved. God is loving, but He is also perfectly just. Because God is perfectly just, sin must be punished. That is what we call justice. (Of course, we always want justice for others, but mercy for ourselves!) God came down Himself and took on flesh, lived the perfect life that we could not live and in doing that He became the perfect sacrifice. He then died the death that we deserved. While suffering on the cross, He also took the full wrath of God upon Himself. That we cannot totally understand. He became the propitiation for sin for those who believe. To believe you must repent of your sins (repent means to turn from them and turn to God in obedience) and trust that the sacrifice of Jesus satisfies the wrath of God as He tells us it does.
God's way of salvation shows first the justice of God, that sin must not go unpunished and second, it shows the love of God in that He died for us while we were still sinners and haters of God and in dying for us and taking God's wrath, He makes a way for us to be reconciled to Him. Once you repent and trust in Him, two things are promised, eternal life with Him and abundant life now. Abundant life now is the joy in knowing your eternal destiny, being at peace with God, and not fearing death. I hope you can see, this is much different from "religions."
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Orange Immortal [64943]
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God came down himself and took his own wrath upon himself?
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Dec 25, 2024, 9:12 PM
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He sacrificed himself to satisfy himself?
God: "As an all-powerful being, there is nothing I MUST do, as what must (or must not) be done is entirely up to me. Therefore, entirely by choice, I am angry and full of wrath because the beings I created surprised me and were less than perfect. Being all-powerful and not subject or beholden to anything beyond myself, I could have created humans in such a way that did not allow for sin in the first place, or, since I love these humans more than you can comprehend, I could teach them along the way to insure that they learn and everyone of them can join me in heaven some day. But, I chose not to do that, and instead to allow sin, knowing it would result in the vast majority of those I love so much to suffer for eternity burning in agony in hell as punishment for my choosing to be angry. But, since I love these humans so much, I will make a way for them to get to heaven and avoid the punishment I have created to satisfy my wrath. Being all-powerful, I could just forgive them and not be so angry, but instead, I've chosen to be angry by the way things I created turned out, so I will get justice and require a sacrifice/payment from myself to myself by suffering a horrific, tortuous physical human death."
What am I missing?
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National Champion [7136]
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Re: God came down himself and took his own wrath upon himself?
Feb 6, 2025, 8:18 PM
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What are you missing? A lot.
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Clemson Icon [24577]
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Re: Who Christians think are going to hell
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Dec 26, 2024, 7:27 AM
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Man invented the concept of hell. No reason to worry about that others think someone is going to hell.
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Orange Immortal [64943]
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Re: Who Christians think are going to hell
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Dec 26, 2024, 9:53 AM
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Again, every concept and construct of God is shaped and influenced by each person's personal experience, including the influence of the culture and environment in which they are raised.
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Top TigerNet [32158]
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Re: Who Christians think are going to hell
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Dec 26, 2024, 8:15 PM
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That’s the way I see it. That doesn’t mean that there isn’t a God, but it does mean that any understanding of God we have passes though a filter we cannot remove…ourselves.
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Orange Immortal [64943]
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I don't see how that can be questioned or doubted.***
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Dec 27, 2024, 11:20 AM
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [102348]
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My filter got a lot more porous when I got saved.
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Jan 2, 2025, 12:08 PM
[ in reply to Re: Who Christians think are going to hell ] |
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Much changed in my heart and still I'm changing daily as God's Spirit works me over. Mind you, I'm not over worked, I'm worked over again and again as my understanding grows.
Sure, the lost have a filter which I agree includes their personal preference, their preconceived opinions about divinity and the influence of their environment(s). That describes who I was with 100% accuracy.
I am a faint shadow of who I was went God saved me. I believe that just as many that aren't saved would agree with your statements also will most if not all those who are saved will agree with my statements.
I also believe you will agree with me when it comes right down to it. I'm sure you've heard the testimonies of in whom Jesus had done remodeling, rebuilding and restoration of their hearts and souls. I join them in prayer for you for we love you and don't want to see you go to waste.
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Top TigerNet [32693]
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Re: Who Christians think are going to hell
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Dec 27, 2024, 11:48 PM
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I think people who are separated from God are in hell, no matter their physical existence as Earthlings perceive it
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Orange Immortal [64943]
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While I don't necessarily agree, I find that a much more reasonable idea
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Dec 28, 2024, 11:07 AM
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than people burning in agony for eternity as some kind of totally unnecessary, pointless punishment.
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Dynasty Maker [3507]
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Re: While I don't necessarily agree, I find that a much more reasonable idea
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Dec 29, 2024, 12:10 PM
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I agree with most of what you say Smiling Tiger®, however your view of what is reality is confuses me a little bit.
You believe there is a god and that he loves us and that everyone will eventually be in paradise with “Him”.
Unfortunately, what we want is not always reality. The creator of this universe, if there is one, could be all sorts of things. Considering the things that go on in this world, I doubt he is a loving father. Maybe he is. But something allows bad things to persist. On the flip side, love peace happiness all exist as well.
Bottom line is we don’t know what’s on the other side, or if there even is another side, much less what it’s like or who or what is on the other side.
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Orange Immortal [64943]
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I agree, Big Dog . . .
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Dec 29, 2024, 2:44 PM
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when it comes to God, we don't know; none of us. None of us has anything other than an opinion or belief, based on our own unique experience and ability to process information. That's it. Personally, when people say theyknow, I think most are serious and well intended, but I think they are wrong.
As far as what I believe, absolutely, I could be completely wrong about all of it. However, I feel confident ruling out certain possibilites that conflict with truth and reality as I understand it, based on my experience and ability to process information. If somebody tells me water is not wet, I'm confident they are full of crap. If somebody tells me water is not wet, except when it is, I am confident they are unable or unwilling to admit that it must be one or the other because their belief system requires both to be true. That does not mean I fully understand what water is beyond it's basic, obvious qualities. I don't know where it originally came from or exactly how it was formed millions of years ago. I don't need to know that to know that in this life, it can't be both wet and not wet.
I believe in a creator because when I look at the world around me and stare into the night sky and hug my children and pet my dog and eat ice cream and ponder it all, My mind, my heart, my totality tells me there is a God, a creator. To me, a creator is more reasonable and believable than random things coming together. I sure can't prove it, and I realize a case can be made either way; but nobody can disprove it either. That's just wher I've landed, and where I stand.
Now, to finally address your point, I readily admit that one of the reasons I believe in a loving God, is because that's what I want to believe. Maybe it's a feeling based on how I was raised, but there's a definite "feeling", almost what I would call a "knowing". If there is anything such as a soul or spirit, that's where I feel it and while I know it's very different from actually knowing, I give it a lot of weight. I certainly can't dismiss it. I don't expect anybody else to be convinced because of it, however, and that's fine.
Then there are people who have "near death experiences". My grandfather had one in 1968. He was very sick in the hospital, when he felt his soul leave his body. He looked down from above and saw his body in the bed and the doctors beside the bed. He kept going up, through the ceiling and roof, and continued upward. He felt a warm and increasingly loving presence drawing him upward. At some point, a big hand reached out of the sky, scooped him up and cradled him in it's palm. He said he was enveloped in a powerfully incredible, unconditional love. Then he heard a voice say "Not yet, my son. It is not your time". He went back down and into his body. Doctors were about ready to declare him dead when the detected a heartbeat. He recovered and lived for a little more than a year after that.
I know that doesn't prove a ### thing, and I know it can be explained away, but I've heard tons of similar stories since, and it's just another reason I believe there is a loving God and an afterlife.
There are theories as to why God allows evil and pain and suffering if he loves us, and I really struggle with it, but the best explanation I've heard is that God is everything, and we are each fractals of God himslef. God wants to experience everything in every way, specifically in this case, a relative existence of opposites and extremes, and that includes pain and suffering as opposed to pleasure and loving happiness. As literal fractals of God we choose to come here to experience this relative existence, knowing that we grow as souls by doing so, satisfy our purpose and that of the whole, knowing this earthly experience is temporary and just a tiny blip against the backdrop of eternity. We in this earthly existence are part of something much, much bigger and vast beyond our comprehension.
Again, I have zero proof, and I know it sounds crazy given traditional Christianity, but I find it much more believable than a God who sits on a throne, created all of this only to be disappointed with the way it turned out, then killed everybody with a flood, gave us another shot but was disappointed with his creation again, then demanded a human sacrifice to balance the scales of justice that he'd created, and is ultimately going to judge all of us anyway, knowing he will send most of us to burn in agony for eternity to satisfy his wrath based sense of justice.
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Dynasty Maker [3507]
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Re: I agree, Big Dog . . .
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Dec 29, 2024, 5:37 PM
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“I believe in a creator because when I look at the world around me and stare into the night sky and hug my children and pet my dog and eat ice cream and ponder it all, My mind, my heart, my totality tells me there is a God, a creator. ”
Good post. I think these are the things that I love about the world as well, and what I would want to be doing in heaven- being with my kids and loved ones, cracking a cold one on a Saturday afternoon watching the Clemson game, teeing off at a beautiful golf course on a perfect afternoon…
Certainly not worshipping some almighty deity while the majority of the human population burns for eternity.
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Orange Immortal [64943]
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Exactly.
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Dec 29, 2024, 6:04 PM
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There's just something wrong with the story I was taught. I mean, if you don't really think about it, you can accept it, but for me, it didn't add up. Something wasn't right. Even though I went through a period of atheism many years ago, that didn't feel right either, and the only doubts I ever had about God stemmed from what people told me about God, not from anything coming from God himself. The idea that God would somehow want to be worshipped in the first place sounds preposterous to me.
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Dynasty Maker [3234]
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To Opants:
Jan 1, 2025, 4:08 PM
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This answer may or may not satisfy you. But here goes:
God's will is done in Heaven. We pray that "thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, in Earth as it is in Heaven". So, we believe in Heaven where God's will is done.
But God doesn't want to force everyone to accept his grace and spend eternity in Heaven with Him. You get a choice in the matter. For those people that don't want to be with Him, there's another place where God is not present. If we have Heaven with God, there has to be a place without God, which we call Hell. I wish I didn't believe in Hell. But if I believe in a Heaven with God, there has to be a place without God.
If you want, there are places where people can go to Church that focus on the love of Jesus, and who want to serve, who want to help others. Many Christians don't like talking about Hell, and I can understand that, because it makes us uncomfortable. But we believe Hell exists.
If you accept Christ fully, then you will have a servant heart, and you'll be filled with the love and joy of Jesus...then there's Heaven waiting for you in the afterlife. I think of Hell as a place reserved for those that reject God's grace, and that are more focused on "self."
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Tiger Spirit [9155]
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Re: Who Christians think are going to hell
Jan 20, 2025, 10:03 PM
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The only way to Heaven is through our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ…..no other way to get there my friend ✝️
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Dynasty Maker [3507]
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Re: Who Christians think are going to hell
Jan 21, 2025, 10:09 AM
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I’ll take things Jesus never said for $1000 Alex.
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National Champion [7136]
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Re: Who Christians think are going to hell
Feb 5, 2025, 9:23 PM
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The Bible says He said just that. Of course you don't believe The Bible is inspired.....
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