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Playmaker [355]
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Poll: 75% of Scientists Consider Leaving U.S.
May 23, 2025, 6:06 PM
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When scientists and academics, including historians, who recognize exactly what is happening because they've seen it before, start leaving the U.S. for political reasons, what's coming couldn't be darker or more ominous.
Message was edited by: fitch®
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Paw Master [17297]
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Their gubment grants getting cut??
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May 23, 2025, 6:09 PM
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How we will know if a sea urchin can transition to the opposite sex ifall the scientists leave?
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TigerNet Icon [152834]
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Do you have this impression that universities don't innovate or produce anything
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May 23, 2025, 6:24 PM
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valuable with the research dollars they're given? And that this has been going on for 200 years, and nobody ever stopped to wonder "hey, what are we getting out of this, anyway?!" You know why nobody wondered that? Because the ROI is tremendous, and it's one of the key factors in how sustainably successful the US has been.
But yeah, it's all probably just dumb studies about sea urchins, and not pediatric cancer research or food production or nuclear tech or resource management or astrophysics. You are the perfect encapsulation of "I don't understand anything about this model, so let's blow it up." It's so impressively dumb and shortsighted.
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Clemson Icon [26670]
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Re: Do you have this impression that universities don't innovate or produce anything
May 23, 2025, 6:40 PM
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Research dollars are a drop in the bucket compared the good that become of it and just generally overall. That's the last thing we should be cutting.
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Paw Master [17297]
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Most do not. They used to.
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May 23, 2025, 6:48 PM
[ in reply to Do you have this impression that universities don't innovate or produce anything ] |
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First of all, no one from the medical community is leaving. You think a doctor is going to leave St. Jude to go make pennies in another country.
Second of all, engineers do tons of research and work; none of those are leaving.
Social “scientists” and climate hoax “scientists” may leave; because they know they are frauds.
Academia has gone the way of journalism. It’s dead.
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TigerNet Icon [152834]
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This is a really, really dumb take.
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May 23, 2025, 7:27 PM
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You're just positing a handful of things you don't like.
I mean, you actually believe a doctor in a hospital is the same thing is a medical researcher PhD. The latter is the one developing the treatments, chemistry, and methodologies that the former uses in the hospital. And yes, the best and brightest medical researchers will leave to work at universities in countries where governments understand the importance of the research being undertaken at those institutes. And you have zero idea of how many engineers might end up leaving--almost 25% of engineers in the US are in R&D, and much of that work is done on university campuses.
"Academia is dead" is exactly the sentiment that will make the US a has-been, and you mouthbreathers are cheering it on.
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Paw Master [17297]
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A medical researcher is still a fkn doctor, da***
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May 23, 2025, 7:38 PM
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TigerNet Icon [152834]
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Sure is, and where do medical researchers typically do their work, genius?
May 23, 2025, 7:41 PM
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HINT: it's not hospitals
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Paw Master [17297]
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I just told 2 professor and a director from MUSC that Tnet said they were
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May 23, 2025, 8:11 PM
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moving out of the country. They asked “where are they sending us”?
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National Champion [7217]
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Re: This is a really, really dumb take.
May 23, 2025, 7:40 PM
[ in reply to This is a really, really dumb take. ] |
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Research should be done in the private sector or in universities partnered with private sector. Our nation is founded on free enterprise. The free market, given the proper regulatory environment, will vastly outperform the tax payer funded research universities.
Universities should partner with private corporations, not be subsidized by govt.
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TigerNet Icon [152834]
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Research IS done in the private sector in partnership with universities.
May 23, 2025, 7:53 PM
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I mean, what are you guys trying to do here? Redefine what the model is? Roughly half of all medical research in the US is done on university campuses, and a VERY significant portion of that is funded by federal research grants. Remove that funding, and see what happens. Private enterprises aren't the big R&D spenders you imagine them to be. Take all of the innovation that is being developed over the next 5-10 year timeline, whether through government-funded research or private enterprise funding, and all of the commercialization and IP and manufacturing and jobs that flow from that research....and remove half of it.
Now extrapolate that out to, say, weapons development. The US funds like $125B/year in weapons development R&D that goes to the Northrup Grummans and the Lockheed Martins--private companies, much like a significant portion of the universities in the US. Does throwing money at missile development make you more tingly than money for medical research? Because they're the same effin' thing.
How do you reckon the US will stack up next to China and the EU in 2035 if you run off a huge swath of the acumen and intellect that currently resides in this country?
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National Champion [7217]
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Re: Research IS done in the private sector in partnership with universities.
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May 23, 2025, 8:00 PM
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My model is let Northrop Grumman fund their own research and then charge the US govt more for the end product. The R and D gets funded, but it is funded through the private business model. Capitalism, when left alone and not choked with cumbersome regulation, has always outperformed socialism and Communism
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CU Medallion [19048]
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Ironic to make that argument using something invented through Univ/govt model
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May 23, 2025, 8:12 PM
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i.e. The internet.
Note: This isn't to say the private sector didn't play a part in making the internet widespread, but none of it happens without the Government/University model.
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Athletic Dir [1150]
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Re: Research IS done in the private sector in partnership with universities.
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May 23, 2025, 9:35 PM
[ in reply to Re: Research IS done in the private sector in partnership with universities. ] |
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Northrup Grumman doesn't survive the 10-15 years development cycle without receiving some development money. Regular businesses need to forecast a profit from something within 3 to 5 years. And 5 years is very much on the high side now.
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Athletic Dir [1150]
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Re: This is a really, really dumb take.
May 23, 2025, 9:32 PM
[ in reply to Re: This is a really, really dumb take. ] |
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The private sector stopped doing basic research before you were born. It basically stopped under Reagan. The basic research that eventually leads to innovation happens in universities and national laboratories.
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National Champion [7217]
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Re: This is a really, really dumb take.
May 23, 2025, 9:37 PM
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It stopped because of the govt funding.
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Athletic Dir [1150]
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Re: This is a really, really dumb take.
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May 24, 2025, 12:15 AM
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The US private sector never did much before the post-WWII investments. If you look back at all the big advances before the 50s, they didn't come out of the US. That changed when we started investing more and we caught up to the quality of work done in the UK. But the tax benefits for R&D changed in the 80s along with changes at the NSF. R&D became a dirty word by the end of the 80s, replaced by "technology development" or "technology applications" with a change from a longer horizon to the 3-5 year horizon we have had since.
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Orange Blooded [2420]
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Game Day Hero [4308]
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Re: Most do not. They used to.
May 23, 2025, 8:27 PM
[ in reply to Most do not. They used to. ] |
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I know two engineers just in my small circle who have already left the US. Both born in the US…both very good engineers.
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Game Changer [1945]
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Ring of Honor [23847]
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National Champion [7217]
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Re: Poll: 75% of Scientists Consider Leaving U.S.
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May 23, 2025, 6:32 PM
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They are losing their free money.
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Clemson Icon [26670]
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Re: Poll: 75% of Scientists Consider Leaving U.S.
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May 23, 2025, 6:39 PM
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Yeah they want to get paid for the work they do and it generally benefits this country overall. You're so smart. What's it like to be you?
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National Champion [7217]
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Re: Poll: 75% of Scientists Consider Leaving U.S.
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May 23, 2025, 7:08 PM
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They can get paid in the private sector and perform much more efficiently.
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Clemson Icon [26670]
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Re: Poll: 75% of Scientists Consider Leaving U.S.
May 23, 2025, 8:24 PM
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They can do research effectively even with grants. Also, not all of the scientists are at Harvard. We don't need to cut back on scientific grants.
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Ring of Honor [23847]
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Ring of Honor [23847]
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National Champion [7217]
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Re: Try researching before you make stupid comments.***
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May 23, 2025, 7:10 PM
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I personally would rather have Boeing, Lockheed, General Dynamics,etc doing sensitive research than university students on foreign visas doing it and sending info straight to China and India.
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Clemson Icon [26670]
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Re: Try researching before you make stupid comments.***
May 23, 2025, 8:31 PM
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There is research on various areas. Also, there are some geniuses at these universities. You don't want to limit them. It benefits the country.
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National Champion [7217]
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Re: Try researching before you make stupid comments.***
May 23, 2025, 10:18 PM
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No, I want to move them to Lockheed.
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Clemson Conqueror [11598]
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Re: Poll: 75% of Scientists Consider Leaving U.S.
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May 23, 2025, 8:31 PM
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Probably 50% of them are Climate Change scientists that keep doing experiments to reveal that CO2 is a greenhouse gas.
Cutting edge research. Universities siphon off 30%+ of that funding for ‘administrative overhead.’
‘Administrative overhead’ translates into funding for social science programs.
‘Social science’ programs translates to indoctrination of gullible college students to be political activists for the Democrat Party.
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Game Changer [2002]
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Have you ever attended a university?***
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May 23, 2025, 8:33 PM
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Clemson Conqueror [11598]
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Re: Have you ever attended a university?***
May 23, 2025, 9:39 PM
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I accidentally exposed the Clemson professor overseeing my senior research project of attempted fraud.
He was mad that my work, in which a new method for determining a particular characteristic of a new substance was proven by my data (obtained from following his proposed test method protocol) proved that his theory was invalid.
He wanted me to use a simple averaging of the data points to identify the point of inflection (that would have identified the conditions in which a special change in the materials characteristics would take place); I presented the data with error bars.
(The new method was proven to properly measure the characteristics of a dissimilar substance [which was the ‘control] that, via another test method, had definitively corroborated the control substance’s characteristics. In other words, ‘New Test Method’ was proven to work nearly the same as ‘Old [Control] Test Method’ … when the ‘old [control] substance’ was being tested.)
However, the ‘New Test Method’ yielded unsatisfactorily inconsistent results when the ‘new substance’ was measured. Thus, the ‘large’ error bars were applicable for the data that was obtained via the New Test Method when measuring the New Substance. BTW, the data obtained from the ‘New Test Nethod’ when testing the ‘Old (Control) Substance’ had small error bars.
(*). My Clemson education taught me about the use of error bars as a measure of precision when measuring the characteristics of a substance. My professor hid the error bars and insisted that I use a large scale when presenting my data and conclusions so as to ‘prove’ that the ‘New Test Method’ was a valid way to measure a key characteristic of a ‘New Substance’ for which the ‘Old Test Method’ could not be used.
BTW, both of the Ph.D students that were working on the same ‘New Substance’ (but doing a different type of work on it) told me that the professor wascwrong and that his theory (about the ‘New Test Method’ as used in the ‘New Substance’ was thoroughly disproved. Future grant money (one part from the Federal Govt and the other part from a private entity) would be at risk for the professor’s future grant proposals.
(***). That, my friend, is an example of how university scientists will engage in fraud in order to keep,the grant money flowing.
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Clemson Icon [26670]
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Re: Have you ever attended a university?***
May 23, 2025, 9:44 PM
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Cool story bro, but it's not the norm. You don't throw the baby out with the bath water. You're using an anecdotal story to justify more of your nutty beliefs. I think it's just part of being in the cult.
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Athletic Dir [1150]
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Re: Have you ever attended a university?***
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May 24, 2025, 12:20 AM
[ in reply to Re: Have you ever attended a university?*** ] |
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Don't use error bars for precision. That's not proper. Only for accuracy are they appropriate, dumb*ss.
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Paw Warrior [4944]
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Clemson Icon [26670]
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National Champion [7746]
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Re: Poll: 75% of Scientists Consider Leaving U.S.
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May 23, 2025, 8:56 PM
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The lefty kooks love their propaganda spoon fed to them, especially when it has some fake polls sprinkled on top. Let us know when even 5% of "scientists", whatever that means, actually leave the country then it would perhaps be a discussion worth having. Otherwise this is about as useful as hearing how all the kooks in Hollywood are gonna leave every time a Pub has gotten elected the last 50 years, yet almost none of them actually do, not that anyone would care. This is just an excuse for board kooks to pretend the all wise educated class thinks the end is near so it must be true, in order to validate their warped worldview that the bad orange man has destroyed things forever. Grow up.
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Orange Blooded [2420]
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Re: Poll: 75% of Scientists Consider Leaving U.S.
May 24, 2025, 7:22 AM
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Our NGO's no longer have the money to fund their predetermined studies.
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Replies: 38
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