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Orange Blooded [4391]
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Cant wait for the Title 9 lawyers
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May 25, 2024, 3:31 PM
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To throw a wrench into the gears of this BS locomotive
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CU Guru [1176]
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It's not BS.
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May 25, 2024, 5:43 PM
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The BS was the NCAA's illegal sports model that they got away with for decades.
Title IX? Just start a women's football team and the issue goes away. The women could play home games when the men away away or in a bye week.
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110%er [6898]
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LOL***
May 25, 2024, 7:04 PM
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All-In [31105]
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I agree.. letting kids into school with limited academic
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May 25, 2024, 7:52 PM
[ in reply to It's not BS. ] |
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Qualifications is criminal.
Then paying all their expenses was a slap in the face.
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CU Guru [1176]
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Obviously you don't understand fair market value...
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May 25, 2024, 8:38 PM
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...and like exploitation of other people's labor.
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110%er [5508]
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Re: Obviously you don't understand fair market value...
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May 25, 2024, 9:16 PM
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I love Clemson and am a die hard fan. I donate to IPTAY to fund scholarships, and purchase season tickets because I like watching Clemson athletics. I hate professional sports because I am a school spirit type person and do not like the sterile, professional model. I like to feel that the players love Clemson too. What is going to happen to Clemson athletics when people like me get fed up and quit donating?
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110%er [5508]
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Re: Obviously you don't understand fair market value...
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May 25, 2024, 9:20 PM
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I do want to point out that Clemson did not sell out season tickets as evidenced by the mini packages that just went on sale. With all of this professionalism of the athletics model, ticket sales will decline.
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Starter [369]
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Re: Obviously you don't understand fair market value...
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May 25, 2024, 11:40 PM
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I do want to point out that Clemson did not sell out season tickets as evidenced by the mini packages that just went on sale. With all of this professionalism of the athletics model, ticket sales will decline.
Colorado just announced a sell out and they are no where near the on field product. Perhaps Dabo should do a better job of getting fans excited for the season and getting a sell out over here rather than the only time he speaks is to get on his high horse or lecture people about something.
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Legend [18102]
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What is the name of the horse you rode in on?
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May 26, 2024, 8:43 AM
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blah blah blah
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All-In [32096]
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Re: Obviously you don't understand fair market value...
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May 26, 2024, 9:18 AM
[ in reply to Re: Obviously you don't understand fair market value... ] |
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Dabo is the head coach not the head cheerleader. He does not need to give educated college football fans a feel good, coach speak speech.
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Starter [369]
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Re: Obviously you don't understand fair market value...
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May 26, 2024, 3:41 PM
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Then cry about it not being a sell-out, while other coaches promote the program and get fans excited.
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110%er [5508]
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Re: Obviously you don't understand fair market value...
May 26, 2024, 3:56 PM
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I do want to point out that Colorado’s stadium only holds 50,183.
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Starter [369]
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Re: Obviously you don't understand fair market value...
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May 27, 2024, 8:22 AM
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Yes, but Colorado want selling out before. They weren't winning either..what's changed? They have a loud mouthed coach with a lot of bravado that has mastered hyping up himself and his team. Two years in a row, WITHOUT WINNING. Imagine what Dabo can do if he'd spend his time hyping up the program, promoting the players, and more. Anytime Dabo is making headlines, it's like "Oh my, what did he say now?" And often he scolding someone.
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CU Guru [1176]
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The schools that have fans who care about sports...
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May 26, 2024, 1:17 AM
[ in reply to Re: Obviously you don't understand fair market value... ] |
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won't have a problem. Check out how NIL collectives pay for their athletes' funding.
Donors, endorsements, and merch sales.
Despite the hundreds of "I'm done" posts I've seen in any number of fan forums, average attendence was up last football season. Funding was up. Several southeastern universities have already sold out their 2024 football season tickets with thousands more on waiting lists.
What you do with your money is up to you, but Clemson teams will still wear orange and white, and the football team will still be the Clemson marquee to the rest of the country.
The sky is not falling.
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CU Medallion [55472]
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Re: The schools that have fans who care about sports...
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May 26, 2024, 8:04 AM
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Give it a couple of years to let the big 2 conferences dominate and see how this festers.
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All-American [586]
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Re: The schools that have fans who care about sports...
May 26, 2024, 6:00 PM
[ in reply to The schools that have fans who care about sports... ] |
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As long as it's not exploitation of other people's labor...actually there are some that don't realize that "other people's labor" was used to create a brand, maintain a brand, and get others (us, or some of us, likely not you) plus TV (still us), and contributions (us again), for $280,000 to $400,000 education and expenses. This will go down in history of one of worst expectations ever.
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Orange Blooded [2697]
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Re: Obviously you don't understand fair market value...
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May 25, 2024, 11:44 PM
[ in reply to Obviously you don't understand fair market value... ] |
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No one is forcing these kids to sign the scholarships. Quite a few of these so called student athletes could not even gain admission into college if they had to meet the same academic requirements as the non-student athletes. The problem is they are after the money, not the education. There is no loyalty anymore. To prove my point, look at the number of transfers and how many have multiple transfers.
In my humble opinion, it is time to go back to the true student athlete. Give them a scholarship (tuition, books, meals, and housing.) If they want money, they can go get a job.
The company I worked for made plenty of money off of equipment that I designed (patents acquired), and the dedication I had to the company for over thirty five years. I did not ask for a percentage of the profits off of those patents or the products those machines produced. We had an agreement to a salary and benefits, nothing more.
Too much greed (entitlement) in the world today.
Rant over,
Go Tigers!
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CU Guru [1176]
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The greed was on the part if the NCAA...
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May 26, 2024, 1:18 AM
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...and the universities who got the athletes for far less than fair market value.
The courts are fixing that.
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Orange Blooded [2156]
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Re: The greed was on the part if the NCAA...
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May 26, 2024, 6:51 AM
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No football player has EVER been made to play football. If ppl felt like they were being taken advantage of then don't play. People want to talk about all these evil universities that just took advantage of poor athletes while never discussing what these universities did in return. Like start new programs, courses, built brand new buildings , built brand new student and athlete accommodation, invested in top notch medical personnel/equipment, new training facilities, gave hundreds and thousands of non-revenue sport athletes the ability to earn a college degree, also investing hundreds of thousands of dollars per athlete, plus too many more to discuss but maybe the biggest thing is gave student athletes the stage of a prestigious university to platform the athletes name. I don't love Clemson bc of the players I love Clemson regardless of the player. If you want to argue the NCAA should have allowed athletes to have an easier path to work and make money then fine but we have rules in this country and the NCAA use to have a rule on how, when and where you could work. I never seen a College Gameday on ESPN where they featured the homeless cardboard living football player. This whole thing is not good and you will see far more negatives than positives. We will see athletic departments shutdown, we will see programs shut down, we will see universities and colleges claim bankruptcy and we will see opportunities for countless students go down the drain so that the poor athletes at the top 50 programs in the country can line their pockets with cash. This is nothing but greed. Next we are going to see a worker at a Tesla factor sue Elon because of the percentage disparity of what each makes. Yes at least Tesla pays the worker but it pays the work according to the rules and regulations Tesla has founded just like the football got what the rules allowed stated by the NCAA, which was WAY MORE than NOTHING.
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CU Guru [1176]
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That's a ridiculous non sequitur.
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May 26, 2024, 8:02 AM
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No one has ever forced you to work, either.
However, when you do work, your employer is obligated to pay you fair market value, avoid price fixing, and not violate federal laws. The NCAA sports model didn't comply with any of those things.
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Legend [18102]
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Re: That's a ridiculous non sequitur.
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May 26, 2024, 8:45 AM
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With this new law to pay players for back years... shouldn't they also, then, be taxed on the compensation they did receive for those years - you know, scholarships, room, board, free gym membership, etc?
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CU Guru [1176]
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Scholarships are not pay and are not taxable******
May 26, 2024, 10:35 AM
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Legend [18102]
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Not yet...
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May 26, 2024, 11:06 AM
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But when the players become employees... it is a benefit. It will become a taxable benefit.
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Walk-On [131]
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Starter [369]
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Starter [369]
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All-In [32096]
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Re: That's a ridiculous non sequitur.
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May 26, 2024, 9:25 AM
[ in reply to That's a ridiculous non sequitur. ] |
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What work are you talking about? What I do every day and what the Clemson football team does do not even remotely equate. I would not join the Clemson football team to provide for my family. You got your head in places they should not be with your line of thinking. This was an amateur game that provided an education and an avenue to make it to the next level. Don’t tell me about a job or exploitation of these guys. No one made them sign up to play. I have to work for a living big difference.
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CU Guru [1176]
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Your head is the one in the wrong place.
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May 26, 2024, 10:39 AM
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Supreme Court concurring opinion in NCAA vs Alston...
"Nowhere else in America can businesses get away with agreeing not to pay their workers a fair market rate on the theory that their product is defined by not paying their workers a fair market rate."
SCOTUS Justice Kavanaugh.
That's that "amateur" system you like.
It was corrupt and violated longstanding federal law. The NCAA hit away with it for far too long. Fortunately the courts are fixing it
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1st Rounder [631]
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Kool aid drinker...
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May 26, 2024, 11:22 AM
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Bought in into the false narrative that a day in the life of a a power 5 football player is tantamount to a daily journey to and from the salt mines. They were/are treated kings before NIL, before the stipend; pay for nothing, want for nothing-
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CU Guru [1176]
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Why are you such a fan of exploiting athletes?
May 26, 2024, 11:30 AM
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It's already been pointed out that Tre NCAA model of not paying fair market value violated federal laws.
Yet, you're a fan of that illegal system.
That's appalling.
It's laughable me that you hate having your own logic applies to your employment.
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1st Rounder [631]
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Ma'am get a hold of yourself...
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May 27, 2024, 12:12 AM
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This passive aggressive method of disseminating derogatory insults is a total b----h move but it fits with your over the top, frantic, EMO persona.(Have you stopped taking both your antidepressant & antipsychotic meds? Quitting cold turkey is inadvisable, especially for someone who's clearly deranged-)
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110%er [6898]
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CU Guru [1176]
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Wrong. It's a very applicable comparison.
May 26, 2024, 10:41 AM
[ in reply to Re: That's a ridiculous non sequitur. ] |
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From your sensitive reaction, it seems to have struck a nerve when how you want to restrict other people's income is applied to you.
That's nauseating hypocrisy. 🤮🤮🤮
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Commissioner [978]
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Re: That's a ridiculous non sequitur.
May 31, 2024, 2:13 PM
[ in reply to That's a ridiculous non sequitur. ] |
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My employer is not obligated to pay me what I think is fair. He is obligated to pay me what I will take to do the job.
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110%er [5508]
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Re: The greed was on the part if the NCAA...
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May 26, 2024, 7:22 AM
[ in reply to The greed was on the part if the NCAA... ] |
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Bluffton Orangeman, when the dust settles the football players are going to realize that they have been used by the IRS like a cheap violin. Everyone is focusing on the players getting part of the pie while no one is paying attention to the IRS. These players are about to grow up real quick. Once they are deemed employees, players will be taxed on scholarships, housing, salary, and other benefits given to them while they are in college.
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CU Guru [1176]
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Not even.
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May 26, 2024, 8:08 AM
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The NCAA used the athletes like a cigar box ukulele for decades.
Paying taxes of even the 1099 rate of 30% still means that the athletes will have more money than they have now.
The IRS isn't going to "use" the athletes.
The athletes are just going to pay income tax like the other 50% or so of Americans that do the same.
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110%er [5508]
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Re: Not even.
May 26, 2024, 4:05 PM
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How much do you think an average Clemson football player is going to make in cash per year ? That cash is going to be needed to pay the taxes on their scholarship, housing, meal plan, tutoring and other benefits when the player is reclassified as an employee, contractor , or whatever they are called. Once the math is done, the players may be worse off than they are now.
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CU Medallion [55472]
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All-In [32096]
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Re: The greed was on the part if the NCAA...
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May 26, 2024, 9:28 AM
[ in reply to The greed was on the part if the NCAA... ] |
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Get with us in 4-5 years and let’s revisit the courts fixing this issue. Will be a #### show.
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CU Guru [1176]
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So, the company you worked for didn't have an illegal business model...
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May 26, 2024, 8:15 AM
[ in reply to Re: Obviously you don't understand fair market value... ] |
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...like the NCAA's? Good for them.
Apparently, you weren't a public figure with enough cache' to get endures EBT money on the side.
Apples, meet oranges.
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1st Rounder [631]
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Hall of Famer [23185]
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Fair market value. Exploitation of labor.
May 26, 2024, 7:06 AM
[ in reply to Obviously you don't understand fair market value... ] |
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I understand your point. People who work for an institution and the institution earns money from their labor should have to pay them fair market value.
Exploitation of labor. A question:
Should the money made by the football team be used to pay the salaries of the tennis team? Is that exploitation of labor?
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Orange Blooded [2169]
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Excellent point.
May 26, 2024, 7:51 AM
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Follow the money. Football makes other collegiate sports possible.
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CU Guru [1176]
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Re subsidizing other sports.
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May 26, 2024, 11:35 AM
[ in reply to Fair market value. Exploitation of labor. ] |
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Title IX says that the universities don't have a choice.
It doesn't matter what I think.
However, if football players become employees, that would seem to take that sport out of the Title IX equation.
That could well kill off some - or all - of the college level Olympic sports, men's and women's.
Title IX doesn't force the schools to have the same number of male and female employees, professors, grad assistants, or whatever. It doesn't force equal pay.
Dabo's paycheck sends its' regards.
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Commissioner [978]
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Re: Fair market value. Exploitation of labor.
May 31, 2024, 2:10 PM
[ in reply to Fair market value. Exploitation of labor. ] |
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The real question to me is are the players that play labor or is that the guy that puts the stripes on the field?
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All-In [32096]
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CU Guru [1176]
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You sound like a Communist...
May 26, 2024, 12:48 PM
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Wanting to exploit other people for their labor.
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110%er [7614]
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lol - youd still have to offer them the same # of
May 26, 2024, 9:55 AM
[ in reply to It's not BS. ] |
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scholarships and comparable facilities(not just the stadium)
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Commissioner [978]
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Re: It's not BS.
May 31, 2024, 2:09 PM
[ in reply to It's not BS. ] |
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Are you saying women in football should be exempt from the draft?
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110%er [9177]
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Its not gonna be hard at all to navigate the title IX implications
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May 26, 2024, 10:29 AM
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Scholarships go away and become part of the compensation package. Now you have 85 fewer male scholarships and the mix of scholarships are significantly over penetrated to the female side. It’s potentially pretty bad news for those who support a large offering of women’s sports.
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CU Guru [1176]
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Scholarships don't go away as long as there is a student component.
May 26, 2024, 12:47 PM
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Any school that dues that is signing the death warrant for their sports program.
Any school that offers pay plus a scholly is going to get the elite athletes. The ones that don't, won't.
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110%er [9177]
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We'll see how it unfolds no details have even begun to be worked out
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May 26, 2024, 2:59 PM
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All I've seen is up to 20M per school. If the B1G and SEC decide the cost of attendance is included in that total everyone else will fall in line
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Athletic Dir [872]
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Re: Cant wait for the Title 9 lawyers
May 26, 2024, 3:33 PM
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Title IX is a law that requires equal education for women.
NCAA football is a business.
The courts have ruled that the business has been colluding with each other to keep wages low. This is against the law.
Now they have to stop in addition to paying past players for breaking law (colluding).
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Legend [18100]
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CU Guru [1176]
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Re: Football (and possibly Men's Basketball) will break away from NCAA & Title IX
May 27, 2024, 7:51 AM
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The NCAA has nothing to do with Title IX.
Separating football from the NCAA will not remove Title IX requirements from the schools.
It's federal law. It requires that universities that receive federal education funding cannot discriminate in the bases of sex.
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Legend [18100]
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Wrong
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May 27, 2024, 8:00 AM
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Not when football uses non-government funds. And if you think women's crew currently gets the same facilities, treatment and perks as even Dabo's walk-ons, do your homework.
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CU Guru [1176]
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Strawman. Logical fallacy.
May 27, 2024, 11:06 AM
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I don't think anything of the sort.
I did t say that. You did. Do you often argue with yourself?
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CU Guru [1176]
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Easy solution
May 27, 2024, 8:00 AM
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Make the footbsll athletes employees, and only the football athletes.
The Olympic sports could then have the same number of men's and women's teams and scholarships. Ergo, there would be no sex-based discrimination between male and female students, and no discrimination.
It's fine to have different numbers of male and female employees. Every college dies this.
Another solution is to simply start womens' football.
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Commissioner [978]
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Re: Cant wait for the Title 9 lawyers
May 31, 2024, 2:23 PM
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What kid is not excited about getting onto a college football team under the current or past model? What kid thinks OMG here I go to be exploited? We have a hundred years of college football with men beating and banging each other up to be exploited in that case. Thousand of highschool boys being heartily disappointed because they could not make it onto a college team. The way to end it all is to stop letting anyone onto a college team if they don't have the SAT scores and the grades to be there. then you'll only have the people that genuinely want to go to college. Let the others go to somebody's arena football team or 7-7 football and go from there.
On the flip side most people that play the exploitation card are first inline to biotch about those that make money not doing great things for the community to pay it back. Except when a college does it to create great educational probrams and facilities for thousands...nope that's exploitation.
The unlying thing is that the greedy ones are not necessarily the people that get accused of being greedy.
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