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110%er [3687]
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Regarding elite Chinese college students
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May 29, 2025, 5:55 PM
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I’m confused because apparently there is some controversy as to their intentions and I don’t understand it. And this goes for other nationalities as well.
Wouldn’t it be in our interests as a nation to attract the most intelligent and intellectually curious minds from around the planet?
Why is this being viewed as a bad thing?
Does anyone remember why we needed to recruit the best scientists from Germany during and after WWII and shouldn’t that framework apply today?
If nothing else, why wouldn’t we welcome the best from around the world in any class or endeavor? What is there to actually lose at the end of the day?
Do we actually have a massive glut of super-intelligent people in our country, helping us build the future?
And if you made it this far! Have I made my ####### point?
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Game Changer [2064]
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The MAGA thought is twofold:
May 29, 2025, 6:16 PM
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First, they assume there are plenty of equally qualified people here that can fill those spots. That may or may not be true- schools like to have international students because they pay the highest cost, so they may be taking some slightly less qualified international students over equally or more qualified US students to generate more revenue. And they would rather the US student get the opportunity. This argument I can get on board with as long as the strength of the student body remains the same.
The second is that they assume all foreign students come here for the education and then leave back to their home countries where they work to undermine the US. You can decide if that seems like a sound assumption.
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Clemson Icon [27579]
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Re: The MAGA thought is twofold:
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May 29, 2025, 7:02 PM
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We don't have enough to fill the spots and we want their brainpower and we want them to stay here and not return to wherever they are from. That's the smart thing to do.
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Game Changer [2064]
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Ya I dont know whether we have enough talent
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May 29, 2025, 7:33 PM
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here or not. If not, ya I support taking international students. Some of them will stay here and that’s great for us.
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Clemson Icon [27579]
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Re: Ya I dont know whether we have enough talent
May 29, 2025, 9:35 PM
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We want their talents.
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Hall of Famer [8121]
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Re: Regarding elite Chinese college students
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May 29, 2025, 6:16 PM
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The only point you made is that you don't get it.
The entire national university system (graduate schools) is overrun with foreign students. Almost all of them are funded by US taxpayers in one way or another. Many of them are 'spies,' sucking every piece of intellectual property out of the universities where they are 'studying.' If they are legit students, there's a good chance they leave the USA and take our technology with them.
It has been this way since I was in graduate school with Ben Franklin. 
So the one little vignette of the USA bringing over a handful of German scientists is 10000 % not anything like the hundreds of thousands of students we are talking about here.
Google says: During the 2023-2024 academic year, the number of international students in US institutions grew to an all-time high of 1.13 million.
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Hall of Famer [8121]
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and I left the part out where
May 29, 2025, 6:19 PM
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the Chinese gov't bribes, pays off, whatever you want to call it, many elite universities with cash so more Chinese students can be admitted.
We are very stupid to let this happen for so long.
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110%er [3687]
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Is there any value to cultural exchange?
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May 29, 2025, 7:10 PM
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what if this young kid from Shanghai comes to the USA and is so enamored with his experience that he stays and develops, knowing that our nation will fiercely defend his intellectual property rights?
That kid fifty years ago was Morris Chang, who went on to build the largest semiconductor fab business in the world,
That kid is also Jensen Huang who wound up creating Nvidia.
I won’t go into the millions of other stories, because you have already made up your mind to believe what you want.
https://www.ihouse-nyc.org/the-expat-success-story-chinese-american-careers-in-the-us/
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Orange Beast [6377]
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Tiger Titan [49005]
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None of this is true
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May 29, 2025, 7:11 PM
[ in reply to Re: Regarding elite Chinese college students ] |
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And if you want to talk about universities draining taxpayers, take a closer look at our American born administrators and BoT who jack up costs so they can live luxurious lifestyles.
Trying to cut out foreign students is stupid on multiple levels.
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Orange Beast [6377]
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Re: None of this is true
May 30, 2025, 5:24 AM
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It's really just his racism pouring out once again. It was the topic at this weeks cross burning.
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110%er [3943]
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Re: None of this is true
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May 30, 2025, 7:45 AM
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Racism against foreigners? I didn’t realize foreigners was a race now.
Learn something new everyday.
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Orange Beast [6377]
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Re: None of this is true
May 30, 2025, 9:58 AM
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He specifically mentioned and went out of his way to mention Chinese. You tried DA. 😆
His racism and hatred for non-whites on this board is well documented. Ask him what he thinks of diversity.
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Tiger Titan [49005]
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Yes, because if they're white, he doesn't have a problem with them.***
May 30, 2025, 10:32 AM
[ in reply to Re: None of this is true ] |
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Hall of Famer [8121]
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Re: None of this is true
Jun 3, 2025, 9:20 PM
[ in reply to None of this is true ] |
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Cata is really, really stupid.
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Paw Master [17456]
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I agree; now do the 18M uneducated invited here.***
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May 29, 2025, 6:16 PM
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Offensive Star [310]
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Re: I agree; now do the 18M uneducated invited here.***
May 29, 2025, 6:29 PM
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip
Funny Russia got some as well and through pure happenstance the cold war begins. Just coincidence I am sure.
Message was edited by: VikingAK®
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110%er [3687]
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TigerNet Icon [153612]
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Saw a good clip on this the other day that I'm not gonna go searching for,
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May 29, 2025, 6:44 PM
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but the key point is that the Trump admin's trade deficit/surplus calculations are for goods, and wholly exclude services, including education. The US exports education, particularly in universities, to the tune of close to $200B per year. That's not chump change. The US has roughly 4.2% of the world's population, so it should be fairly obvious that most of the best and brightest individuals will come from somewhere outside of the US, just based on fairly obvious statistics.
Attempting to blow up the entire university/higher education model because you're worried about pieces of tech occasionally being stolen is the height of anti-intellectualism, as is the "what have government research grants ever accomplished, derp" argument.
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Paw Master [17456]
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How about this model?
May 29, 2025, 6:56 PM
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The schools use their $B endowments to fund the research; and if the research leads to significant benefits to humanity, the govt can reimburse some of their costs.
Then we will see which of these international students are geniuses and which ones are just here for blue haired activism.
I like paying for services rendered; not services forthcoming…maybe…someday.
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National Champion [7249]
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Re: Regarding elite Chinese college students
May 29, 2025, 8:34 PM
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It would be in our best interest to keep our research and development secret from the information stealing foreign students.
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National Champion [8005]
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Re: Regarding elite Chinese college students
May 29, 2025, 9:46 PM
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Nobody comes here from China to be a student without the communist Chinese govts blessing. All of these students will return to China. They aren't immigrating here so whatever they learn they are taking bacl with them. If you don't think many, if not most, of them are here as spies you're pretty naive and exactly the kind of American China would love to keep running our universities and be in charge of our Visa system. China is our number one global enemy by a long shot so why do left wing kooks insist we educate their best and brightest to then be used against us? Oh that's right, they are our enemy as well. Birds of a feather
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Ultimate Tiger [35219]
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This is a subject that Trump might have some kind of point...
May 30, 2025, 7:48 AM
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just in Trump fashion, it hasn't been explained well and the motivation might not align with the actual point.
Some thoughts in no particular order:
- International students might be shutting our US students for spots at prestigious universities. Seems like we would need a lot more details on the admissions criteria, eg, would the univ be as prestigious with more slightly less qualified/impressive American students (meaning easier to get in to)?
- How many international students at these top univs stay in the US after their undergrad or grad program is done? A quick search suggests that some studies show that at the 5-year mark after their studies, between 45% and 80% (look at 3 studies) of international grads are still in the US, presumably working. My company employees a few. And I've recently interviewed these some of these types and they want to stay in the US.
- Is there a foreign relations benefit here? Are future foreign leaders more apt to have a positive bent towards the US if they studied here?
- The concern that a lot of students are being trained here and then returning back to adversarial countries seems like a valid concern. If we want the federal government telling universities what % of foreign students they can have is another thing.
- The H1B visa program seems to be being tightened right now. This is converse to the point that we don't want talented/educated folks returning to foreign countries. How about we take the talented folks OUT of these countries and bring them to the US to help our economy?!? Going through this a bit right now at our company too.
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110%er [3687]
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While there is likely some deception going on
May 30, 2025, 9:16 AM
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in terms of IP theft, in cases where doctoral students are taking the IP of their fellow collaborators and returning to their home countries, this seems like more of a policing/legal concern. But I can appreciate that enforcement is difficult with the most egregious violators.
Seems like we just need better incentives to keep them from running off with the goods. Both carrot and stick varieties.
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Top TigerNet [30419]
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take a walk around Georgia Tech's campus
May 30, 2025, 9:25 AM
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for a day, and axe yourself if you have the same position.
Way too many GA, and US kids for that matter, get sidelined for foreign students.
My hawkishness on the Cheenks (and Indians) is the result of that seed being planted while on campus at the North Ave Trade School and competing w/ them sombiches. Then I actually entered the workforce and am competing against them to this day. And I love it. Let me get 1:1 w/ a fuggin asian so I can run their ### clean over.
It's a nationalist policy, so I understand the pushback. I'm pretty biased on this as well, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
I also wouldn't use Operation Paperclip as a precedent...right? Like, that was done in secret...for a reason...
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110%er [3687]
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Re: take a walk around Georgia Tech's campus
May 30, 2025, 11:42 AM
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On a lark, I actually visited Werner Von Braun’s grave site one time with my brother, he was buried off King Street in Alexandria.
There is an argument for treating our current conflict with the PRC like post WWII USSR. We have to be similarly competitive for brain power and we don’t want all the brightest minds playing for the wrong team.
Asian students typically do well on the SAT, at least in Math, so it’s not surprising they show up in greater numbers at better engineering schools like GA Tech.
In a merit based world, which MAGA claims to be about, schools should be accepting the best scoring students, not just the ones that are willing to pay full price.
I think Vivek tried to make these points and got run out of town. He didn’t realize that at its core, MAGA could care less about merit, just Murica.
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Clemson Conqueror [11473]
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80% of them head back to China (stat I heard on NN last night) upon graduating
May 30, 2025, 10:10 AM
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They also said they tend to prop up the universities because they all pay turbo out-of-state tuition
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Game Changer [2064]
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Clemson Conqueror [11473]
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That's a good point. The REALLY good ones (PHDs) are staying...***
May 30, 2025, 11:12 AM
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