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Paw Warrior [4927]
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MJ/Lebron
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May 4, 2023, 9:05 PM
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For those of you who have passionate opinions about this debate, if Lebron wins a championship 2 more times to equal MJ’s number of rings, is Lebron then the GOAT?
I know he’s going to do everything in his will to play when his son reaches the NBA, and that’s not for at least 2 years. Just thinking that the number of championships is what really separates them. And MJ never losing a finals.
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Solid Orange [1345]
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Re: MJ/Lebron
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May 4, 2023, 9:07 PM
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The answer is MJ not LeBaby. Move on.
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Freshman [-93]
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Ding Ding Ding
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May 5, 2023, 8:23 AM
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Kinda like Mahommes vs Brady.
Got into a little debate with a beautiful brown skin female in a Charlotte bar one night. She said Mahommes is the best player. I had to break down what GOAT is intended to mean. She still disagreed, adamantly and passionately. That’s cool.
U can have differences in opinion and those that don’t even make sense. Valerie was still a beautiful young woman inside and out. I can assure u, I got to know her very well that weekend. Mahommes is NOT the GOAT, obviously, but who she thought was the best QB ever was immaterial for the rest of that weekend.
Anyways, Brady = Jordan = GOAT
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Varsity [104]
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Re: MJ/Lebron
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May 4, 2023, 9:08 PM
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Lebron has lost too much in the finals and depended on super teams throughout his career to even be in discussion.
If Steph gets his 5th this year, he replaced LeBron on Mount Rushmore imo.
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Paw Warrior [4927]
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Re: MJ/Lebron
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May 4, 2023, 9:40 PM
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Okay the fact you even mentioned Steph’s name is ridiculous. He’s a great, but has had tremendous help in all of his championships. That said, he is the greatest shooter of all time by far.
Lebron has played 19 seasons, and doesn’t even seem to be within 2 years of retirement. MJ played 15.
I think MJ is the better choice, but if Lebron manages to get 2 more and level with MJ, there’s no argument for amount of rings anymore. With MJ or Kobe.
What Lebron is doing I don’t think we’ve ever seen out of an American athlete. The fact he even is running and keeping up with young nba players is great, but he’s still dominating them. I don’t know what it is about his body that allows him to do this.
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Varsity [104]
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Re: MJ/Lebron
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May 4, 2023, 9:45 PM
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"Hes great, but has had tremendous help in all his championships"
LeBron didn't win until his 9th season with Wade and Bosh as a superteam 😂😂😂
Steph will go down with more rings, less losses and less of a superteam than LeBron has. Kobe is better than LeBron. He's great, not in the covo for top 2.
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Paw Warrior [4927]
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Re: MJ/Lebron
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May 5, 2023, 12:25 AM
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Laugh all you want, Lebron never had anybody as good as Kevin Durant. Alongside another one of the greatest shooters we’ve ever seen in Klay Thompson. Steph is obviously the face of everything they’ve done, but Durant came and won back to back Finals MVPs. That’s not a sign of future GOAT status. You don’t get outplayed by another teammate in your prime, in the finals especially, in order to be seen that way.
D Wade and Bosh were very good, but not like Steph has had. This isn’t even really a debate between Steph and Lebron, that’s blasphemy.
Kobe is the only other person that can be involved in this conversation. And he actually may be the GOAT, but everything he learned was from MJ. He based his game on him.
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Varsity [104]
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Re: MJ/Lebron
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May 5, 2023, 12:48 AM
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You are out of your mind. I hate Stephen a smith, but even he said today that Steph would replace LeBron on Mount Rushmore with his 5th ring in 6 tries. You're blinded by style of play.
But yes, I will laugh because your original statement that LeBron didn't have super teams, even more than steph is wild. You want to bring up klay but neglect Ray Allen?
For you to say he never had what Steph had is absolutely hysterical. Steph won without KD, LeBron needed at the least Kyrie (best PG in the league at the time) and a max contract Kevin love.
Im not sure what else to tell you but LeBron is an underachiever compared to what he could have been.
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Varsity [104]
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Re: MJ/Lebron
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May 5, 2023, 12:52 AM
[ in reply to Re: MJ/Lebron ] |
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Just still laughing at the notion that Steph has had more "help" than LeBron
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National Champion [7260]
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Re: MJ/Lebron
May 5, 2023, 4:01 PM
[ in reply to Re: MJ/Lebron ] |
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Lebron is by far the most gifted player to ever play. Kobe and Steph are better scorers but not overall basketball players.
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Varsity [104]
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Re: MJ/Lebron
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May 4, 2023, 9:47 PM
[ in reply to Re: MJ/Lebron ] |
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We have seen this before btw, Brady winning super bowl in his 40s, Nolan Ryan dominating towards 50, Jerry rice with 1000 yds at 41. You sound like ESPN first take. He's a legend, not a goat
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Ring of Honor [23321]
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Re: MJ/Lebron
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May 5, 2023, 8:18 AM
[ in reply to Re: MJ/Lebron ] |
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So, ROYBus10®...if you tell someone their opinion is 'ridiculous', is that debating? He didn't seem to denigrate your 'opinion'.
I'll take MJ all day, every day. In fact, had MJ had Lebron's physical traits combined with his own talent, it would be comparing Secretariat to the rest of the horse-racing world.
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Paw Warrior [4927]
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Re: MJ/Lebron
May 5, 2023, 11:19 AM
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Umm yes he did😂
He didn’t even bother to only debate against Lebron, he threw Steph Curry into the conversation.
My opinion about Steph way under Lebron would be agreed upon by more than the opinion of Steph over Lebron. You know it, he knows it, it’s not even in the OP because I didn’t think of Steph.
Kobe is the only other person that could win this.
Here’s what I’ll admit about Steph. I’m on the younger side so I do realize more about how much Steph has impacted this game, and can see his superhuman abilities. He has “PUSHED” basketball in a direction of shooting. Not changed it all by himself. Lebron’s multifaceted game has allowed him to be in this conversation, as well as his longevity. Also, Lebron being the leading NBA scorer of all time.
https://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/stephen_curry_vs_lebron_james.htm
Since it’s reality that we’re arguing this, here’s the stats. Steph is 35 and with his body and style of play, he’s not going as long as Lebron did. He’s incredibly thinner and running and screening is what allows him to make half of his 3s easily.
Message was edited by: ROYBus10®
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Ring of Honor [23321]
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All I know is
May 5, 2023, 3:57 PM
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Steph and company drilled the 'Great One' last night. Absolutely drilled. Not bad for a short, old dude who's done more with less...with one team. JMHO...but what do I know...I'm REALLY old!
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National Champion [7260]
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Re: MJ/Lebron
May 5, 2023, 4:02 PM
[ in reply to Re: MJ/Lebron ] |
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This is true but MJ didn't have the physical attributes that LBJ has. That's why there is a debate. MJ deff had the better mentality imo.
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Freshman [-93]
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Even if Bron Bron collects more trophies than MJ
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May 5, 2023, 8:24 AM
[ in reply to Re: MJ/Lebron ] |
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MJ is still the best player of all time.
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Orange Blooded [2261]
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Re: MJ/Lebron
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May 5, 2023, 8:18 AM
[ in reply to Re: MJ/Lebron ] |
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look at MJ w/o Pippen playing.
None of them did it with teams of scrubs
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Freshman [-93]
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Bro, that’s hilarious !***
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May 5, 2023, 8:24 AM
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National Champion [7260]
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Re: MJ/Lebron
May 5, 2023, 3:59 PM
[ in reply to Re: MJ/Lebron ] |
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Yea MJ had horrible teammates on his championship teams. Right?
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Ultimate Tiger [34494]
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Re: MJ/Lebron
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May 4, 2023, 9:10 PM
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MJ. Not even close.
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110%er [3670]
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Re: MJ/Lebron
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May 4, 2023, 9:35 PM
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MJ. Lebron has to tell everyone how great he is. MJ never did. MJ never put together super teams like Lebron has either.
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Clemson Icon [24158]
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MJ didn't win anything until Pippen joined the Bulls
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May 4, 2023, 9:45 PM
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He also had Dennis Rodman for the 2nd 3-peat, not to mention solid role-players like Steve Kerr, Horace Grant, etc
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110%er [3670]
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Re: MJ didn't win anything until Pippen joined the Bulls
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May 4, 2023, 9:50 PM
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Exactly. Role players. Bulls drafted Pippen. He didn't go out and put together a super team. No other Bull player came close to Wade, Bosh , Irving, Love, AD.
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Varsity [104]
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Paw Warrior [4927]
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Re: MJ didn't win anything until Pippen joined the Bulls
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May 5, 2023, 12:31 AM
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You really don’t understand how good those Bulls teams were. Watch some highlights or look up the stats, but that was a franchise in a dynasty not solely because of MJ. Pippen is extremely underrated, he was a great. Dennis Rodman was one of the greatest to rebound. Along with another great Horace Grant. MJ had plenty of help with how good he was.
They are certainly better than the teams Lebron has had. Lebron’s best team was the Heat with the trio and then Ray Allen and Andersen. Just look at how good they were and how long they were dominating.
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Heisman Winner [80129]
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Oddly enough, even MJ'steammates disagree with your assertion.***
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May 5, 2023, 3:36 PM
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Freshman [-93]
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Clemson Icon [24158]
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MJ never lost in the Finals
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May 4, 2023, 9:16 PM
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but he did lose 3x in the 1st round, 2x in the 2nd round, 1x in the 3rd round, and failed to make the playoffs in both of his seasons with the Wizards.
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Clemson Icon [24158]
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That should be 2x in the 3rd round***
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May 4, 2023, 9:19 PM
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All-Time Great [88655]
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Bill Russell. 11 rings, 5 MVPs.***
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May 4, 2023, 9:18 PM
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Paw Warrior [4927]
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Re: Bill Russell. 11 rings, 5 MVPs.***
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May 4, 2023, 9:19 PM
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No
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All-Time Great [88655]
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Yes. It's so weird to me that Russell, Wilt, and
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May 4, 2023, 9:47 PM
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Kareem get left out of the conversation.
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Clemson Conqueror [11405]
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Freshman [-93]
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Jordan could eat pancakes off the top of his head,
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May 5, 2023, 8:17 AM
[ in reply to Bill Russell. 11 rings, 5 MVPs.*** ] |
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as he’s jumping over him for a dunk. That, and Russell could NEVER keep up with Jordan.
More to it than raw numbers.
Jordan is the GOAT. The best overall player that has ever played the game.
The end.
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Clemson Icon [24765]
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Yes.
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May 4, 2023, 9:30 PM
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Easily.
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Paw Warrior [4927]
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Re: Yes.
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May 4, 2023, 9:43 PM
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There’s an argument for him because of accolades, but athletes weren’t what they are now. Shooters weren’t how they are now.
The time period in which he played with no 3 pointers and mainly scoring inside allowed Russell and Wilt so much dominance. They wouldn’t do that today.
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TigerNet Elite [71511]
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Re: Yes.
May 5, 2023, 9:03 AM
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And MJ wouldn't have been as good back then. Different time... different rules...
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Clemson Conqueror [11405]
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Not getting in that debate, but no team has had a bigger
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May 4, 2023, 9:42 PM
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improvement from adding one player, than Boston did when Larry Bird joined the team. They won 28 games, then drafted Bird, and with virtually the same team otherwise, won 61 games in Bird's rookie year! Also, Jordan was something like 0-4 in playoff series against Larry Bird!
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Clemson Icon [24158]
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0-2, not 0-4
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May 4, 2023, 9:54 PM
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They played each other in Jordan's 2nd and 3rd seasons. Both times the Bulls made the playoffs with a losing regular-season record.
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Tiger Titan [50790]
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Heisman Winner [80129]
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No. Dumb debate.***
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May 4, 2023, 9:43 PM
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Varsity [104]
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Re: No. Dumb debate.***
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May 4, 2023, 9:56 PM
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Someone gets it
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Varsity [104]
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Re: MJ/Lebron
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May 4, 2023, 9:51 PM
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Paw Warrior [4938]
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Re: MJ/Lebron
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May 4, 2023, 10:15 PM
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I don’t know which one is the GOAT but I just wanna talk about Jordan’s mom. If you haven’t seen the movie “air” you should see it. I’m a woman and not really a big basketball fan but I learned things I didn’t know about. His mom is an all-star and really did him a solid when she negotiated his contract with Nike about 40 years ago. She insisted that he get paid a percentage of every item Nike sold with his name on it. He has made many millions from that and is still to this day making millions every year. It was the 1st time a percentage of sales was negotiated with Nike and probably all other athletic companies.
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Varsity [104]
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Re: MJ/Lebron
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May 4, 2023, 10:30 PM
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Great watch. Great movie. Revolutionized the athletic apparel market and made him a billionaire. Reebok is now sold in Walmarts while Nike has the most iconic shoes on the market.
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Paw Warrior [4927]
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Re: MJ/Lebron
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May 5, 2023, 12:37 AM
[ in reply to Re: MJ/Lebron ] |
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That’s interesting. Got to watch it.
But yeah she knew his greatness and uniqueness better than anyone. She wasn’t letting him get cheated out of anything.
Like Lamar Jackson’s Mom who was said to help him with his contract. Everybody thought he was dumb without agent, but guess what he got everything he wanted.
Message was edited by: ROYBus10®
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110%er [9905]
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Re: MJ/Lebron
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May 4, 2023, 10:33 PM
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MJ.
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Top TigerNet [32856]
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lol
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May 4, 2023, 10:35 PM
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come on man
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Tiger Titan [50790]
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Wilt.
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May 4, 2023, 10:36 PM
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Next question.
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110%er [9905]
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Re: Wilt.
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May 4, 2023, 10:40 PM
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Tiger Titan [50790]
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Why is calling Wilt the greatest player of all time stupid?
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May 4, 2023, 10:44 PM
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I truly believe he is, and have data to prove it.
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110%er [9905]
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Re: Why is calling Wilt the greatest player of all time stupid?
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May 4, 2023, 10:48 PM
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Yeah, we know he supposedly had sex with 20,000 women.
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Varsity [104]
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Re: Wilt.
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May 4, 2023, 10:43 PM
[ in reply to Wilt. ] |
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Solid troll
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Tiger Titan [50790]
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So it’s trolling to think that the best basketball player ever
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May 4, 2023, 10:45 PM
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is someone besides Jordan or LeBron?
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Varsity [104]
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Re: So it’s trolling to think that the best basketball player ever
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May 4, 2023, 10:48 PM
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No. It's not hard to see the difference in the leagues between then and now though. It's like claiming Babe Ruth was the best hitter of all time when he probably wouldn't hit 200 in today's league.
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110%er [9905]
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Re: So it’s trolling to think that the best basketball player ever
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May 4, 2023, 10:54 PM
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Not to mention how he valued stats over wins/titles. (Explains 20,000). MJ.
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Varsity [104]
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Re: So it’s trolling to think that the best basketball player ever
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May 4, 2023, 10:55 PM
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You're correct.
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Tiger Titan [50790]
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Titles are less about one player and more about having a collection of superstars on the same team.
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May 5, 2023, 3:43 PM
[ in reply to Re: So it’s trolling to think that the best basketball player ever ] |
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Jordan didn’t win squat until he had Pippen. And that was despite scoring a ton of points and clearly being a great player.
Magic won with Kareem, Worthy, etc.
Russell won with Havlicek, Cousy, etc.
Championships shouldn’t be the main determining factor for best player.
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Paw Warrior [4927]
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Re: Wilt.
May 5, 2023, 12:34 AM
[ in reply to Wilt. ] |
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Wrong.
Wilt played in the 2-point only period. If you had that size, like Bill Russell too, you could dominate the inside and score all day.
The evidence he wouldn’t do what he did now is obvious by how everybody shoots now. Even Giannis needed to learn how to shoot or he wouldn’t be what he is.
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TigerNet Elite [71511]
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Re: Wilt.
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May 5, 2023, 9:07 AM
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And MJ would not have been as good then. Different time... Different rules...
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Clemson Sports Icon [53188]
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Re: MJ/Lebron
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May 4, 2023, 10:41 PM
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MJ will always be the best because of his will to win using his teammates & his defensive ability in critical situations! He was the goat & the ultimate teammate who drove everyone to raise their game along with him.
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Freshman [-93]
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No
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May 5, 2023, 1:15 AM
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Jordan could beat Bronnie. Today. Right now.
The end
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Orange Elite [5441]
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National Champion [7951]
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Lebrons first offensive NBA play at home was
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May 5, 2023, 6:57 AM
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an inbound pass , to him . an 18 year old Akron native who is not a PG
he went up court and tossed an alley oop pass that got dunked in
Michael Jordan was in college at that age.
Lebron needed zero development . youngest ever and oldest ever to average the 30+pts per game in a season
old people need to realize . Lebron is more rare than Jordan.
Jordan only has rings . and Bill Russel has almost double MJs
MJ was just a 90s media expirement that made $$$$$$$$$.
every white kid wanted to be Jordan . marketing and media was crazy in Jordan's era
all they did with lebron was tear him down
that's why y'all like MJ and not Lebron (without knowing it )
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National Champion [7951]
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media was telling us for the longest time Lebron
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May 5, 2023, 7:05 AM
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was a top defender and a top passer
meanwhile and unpublicized until the year of
Lebron became the all time leading scorer in the NBA
and he was even a scorer, according to media
wake up y'all. become sports woke
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National Champion [7951]
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Top TigerNet [30112]
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Re: Lebrons first offensive NBA play at home was
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May 5, 2023, 7:33 AM
[ in reply to Lebrons first offensive NBA play at home was ] |
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Obviously you show your age. Lebron tore down Lebron. With his constant crying and complaining. His oft perceived racist agenda has polarized many. As you stated about MJ everyone wanted to be like Mike. Very true, but if he would've said the offensive things and cried as much as Lebron then nobody would have been on that bandwagon.
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Clemson Icon [24894]
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Paw Warrior [4927]
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Tiger Titan [50790]
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Jordan was incredible for sure, but a lot of his legacy is a result of
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May 5, 2023, 3:48 PM
[ in reply to Lebrons first offensive NBA play at home was ] |
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the media-driven narrative about him. He was the first major superstar athlete, thanks to the era he played in. He can thank Nike for that.
His popularity, and fans’ attachment to him, makes it hard for some people to be objective about him.
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Top TigerNet [30112]
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Re: MJ/Lebron
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May 5, 2023, 7:26 AM
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If MJ would have not taken two years off for baseball, then he would have been holding up 8 rings. It is true that Lebron's political agenda and even questionable racist comments polarizes many, he is still a top 5 all time.
I love Horace Grant but he was not a superstar. Pippen showed he couldn't do it without Jordan and was not a top 50 player. Lebron has had better talent around him and achieved less. So he will set records for points and games played possibly, but to compare the two is silly.
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Top TigerNet [30112]
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Re: MJ/Lebron
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May 5, 2023, 8:05 AM
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I know everyone praises Pippen as a top 50 player all time, but is he top 50. Career total averages are 16.1 ppg, 6.4 reb. and 5.2 apg. True he played 17 seasons and dropped dramatically once he left the Bulls, yet the numbers don't paint a top 50 all time players stats
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All-TigerNet [5994]
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The year MJ retired to play baseball
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May 5, 2023, 8:24 AM
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Pippen finished 3rd in league MVP voting.
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Top TigerNet [30112]
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Re: The year MJ retired to play baseball
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May 5, 2023, 8:32 AM
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Not saying he wasn't a good player, just not a top 50 player.
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Tiger Titan [50790]
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Conversely, what did Jordan win without Pippen?
May 5, 2023, 3:50 PM
[ in reply to Re: MJ/Lebron ] |
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That’s right, nothing.
He didn’t even get some of his Wizards teams to the playoffs.
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All-TigerNet [5994]
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LeBron is already the GOAT
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May 5, 2023, 7:56 AM
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He has more points, rebounds, assists, and blocks than MJ. Is the first player in NBA history to reach 38K 10K 10K career stat line. Now he’s the all-time leading scorer in NBA history.
I still think that MJ is an all-time great and personally one of my favorite players, and the Bulls still have an argument for greatest team of all time. As far as the greatest player of all time… That argument is over.
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National Champion [7260]
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Re: LeBron is already the GOAT
May 5, 2023, 4:02 PM
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You can't argue with the old heads. They will never accept it.
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Orange Phenom [14718]
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Haven't seen LeBron James play but can't imagine he is as
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May 5, 2023, 8:54 AM
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dominant player as Jordan.
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TigerNet Elite [71511]
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Re: MJ/Lebron
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May 5, 2023, 8:57 AM
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2 words... Wilt Chamberlain...
Most dominant player ever.
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TigerNet Elite [71511]
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Re: MJ/Lebron
May 5, 2023, 8:59 AM
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Larry bird dominated MJ.
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Head Coach [946]
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Re: MJ/Lebron
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May 5, 2023, 9:28 AM
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Allow me to interject a different opinion. The best basketball has ever been played was by Michael Jordon particularly during the 1st 3-peat. When asking who’s had a better career it’s Lebron by a near mile. Lebron was better early and is gong to be better late than MJ, don’t be surprised to see the Lakers make the finals this year.
The GOAT question comes down to personal interpretation, whether you think the best player is the one that had the highest peak or the one that had a longer peak.
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Hall of Famer [8935]
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Re: MJ/Lebron
May 5, 2023, 12:05 PM
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MJ will always be the GOAT in basketball - ome step ahead of Pistol Pete Maravich. Lebron has never appealed to me - especially after that narcissistic hour-long tv show announcing him "taking his game to South Beach". He does not dominate like MJ or Pistol Pete or Steph Curry.
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Paw Warrior [4842]
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Re: MJ/Lebron
May 5, 2023, 1:17 PM
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Lebron James has just never impressed me.
Maybe it's the style of play, but MJ and Kobe and others just seemed to have something that he doesn't.
I guess it's possible that he's so good that he makes it look effortless?
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