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Ring of Honor [22331]
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If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game
Dec 6, 2022, 11:48 PM
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Here’s the most plausible
Dabo doesn’t shy away from signing “contracts” on the recruiting trail on business cards. (Ex. Spiller, Jamie Harper) He’s one of the best if not THE BEST in the nation. I imagine to get the top recruit in the nation from California, who everyone on earth at the time thought could start from day 1 on any team, to come to the east coast at Clemson and sit behind Trevor Lawrence it would take a lot of persuading.
After all, we had just landed 2 #1 recruits and both took us to a national championship. At that point it seemed a foregone conclusion that DJ would be no different. Dabo had no reason to think that DJ would not be the guy for at least 2 years after Trevor and it be on his own talent and merit. Is it possible he promised to DJ that he would be the Face of Clemson as it’s starting qb for 2 years after Trevor left since it seemed a foregone conclusion anyway if he came to Clemson? (and if he did I would have absolutely no issue with his doing so, just bad luck in this situation)
If such a promise was made, Dabo can’t go back on it in any way. It would ruin a years long established reputation on the recruiting trail if it were to get out there that he broke that promise. Other teams would use it against us at every stop. There’s no way that could happen.
And ask yourself. If Kelly Bryant got offended by being benched for Trevor Lawrence of all QBs, would Big Dave see it as a slap in the face if DJ were benched for Cade and make it public that Dabo broke a promise?
There’s your possible plausible reason.
Message was edited by: CUAtTheFinishLine®
Message was edited by: CUAtTheFinishLine®
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Commissioner [1280]
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Re: If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game
Dec 6, 2022, 11:51 PM
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I think this is quite plausible.
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MVP [512]
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Re: If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game
Dec 9, 2022, 9:34 AM
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I believe the reason so many of our recruits are entering the portal is because of Dabo's decision to constantly play DJ which resulted in the lack of points. This would have resulted in more playing time for these guys. Furthermore, there was a Lack of Leadership under DJ. No doubt the games with Notre Dame & the Chickens would have had a much better outcome had he ate his pride & played Cade earlier in the 2nd quarters & started him in the 2nd half's. The fans new it & the commentator's. Dabo new it but would not concede since he was desperate to make his point about DJ. His constant commitment to DJ cost us dearly & totally embarrassed the Clemson Nation. Dabo's lack of commitment to the rest of the team with his praise toward DJ caused a lot of problems & therefore caused more damage to 2023 Recruiting. Hopefully Scott will step back in & save us. Otherwise it will hurt us.
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National Champion [7271]
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Re: If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game
Dec 9, 2022, 9:47 AM
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That could be.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [100966]
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Anything's Plausible in today's World.
Dec 6, 2022, 11:56 PM
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As good a try as any~
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Paw Master [16191]
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What is it Dabo did with Kelly?
Dec 7, 2022, 12:02 AM
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Honestly have no idea what you mean
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Ring of Honor [22331]
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Re: What is it Dabo did with Kelly?
Dec 7, 2022, 7:10 AM
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I just mean benching him for a freshman. Similar situation. And I'm referring to Kelly Bryant
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Legend [6832]
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Re: What is it Dabo did with Kelly?
Dec 7, 2022, 12:08 PM
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Lord man if you had taken time to go to the playoff of Ala and Clemson in New Orleans and see Kelly operate on that stage as a complete failure then you would know why.
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Ring of Honor [22331]
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Re: What is it Dabo did with Kelly?
Dec 7, 2022, 12:10 PM
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I do know why. Why is everyone assuming that I'm saying that Dabo shouldn't have benched Kelly? Everyone is on the "defend dabo" train that they think every comment is a slight to him. My post is in no way saying anything negative about Dabo. Quite the opposite.
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MVP [512]
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Re: What is it Dabo did with Kelly?
Dec 9, 2022, 9:41 AM
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Wrong statement. I was there & our Offensive line wasn't. Look at the perfect passes that were made & then dropped by Cain. I believe there were 3 total dropped passes. The last dropped ball around the 12 yd. line could have resulted in a win in spite of the lack of the offensive line & poor play calling. Cain appeared to have dropped the passes intentionally as though he was on the take. It was obvious the balls should have been easily caught.
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Paw Master [16191]
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I’m in no way giving you a hard time
Dec 7, 2022, 2:23 PM
[ in reply to Re: What is it Dabo did with Kelly? ] |
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I’m just trying to understand what you meant
“And ask yourself. Would Big Dave make it public if he did to DJ what Dabo did with Kelly Bryant?”
You mean if Dabo benched DJ in game 4-5 like he did KB, then Big Dave would let it out that Dabo made a promise he didn’t keep
Thought you were suggesting Dabo had some similar deal with KB or something
That said
I don’t think there were any deals other than to say Dabo expected this to be DJs team and it would be DJs job to lose
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Ring of Honor [22331]
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Re: I’m in no way giving you a hard time
Dec 7, 2022, 2:25 PM
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"You mean if Dabo benched DJ in game 4-5 like he did KB, then Big Dave would let it out that Dabo made a promise he didn’t keep"
This is exactly what I meant. Maybe I did not word what I was saying correctly. I will try to edit.
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Paw Master [16191]
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No need dude, prolly just me
Dec 7, 2022, 7:17 PM
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?
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Orange Immortal [66913]
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It seems that he needed a Christian Wilkins
Dec 7, 2022, 12:07 AM
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on the team.
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Athletic Dir [1121]
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110%er [3666]
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Re: If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game
Dec 7, 2022, 12:12 AM
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Dabo spoke openly about this after the ACCCG.
Both DJ and Cade knew 2022 was DJ’s year, with some conditions. After Cade excelled vs Syracuse, there was some notion that he might be “ready”—another word Dabo used freely. But then he failed to rescue us vs Notre Dame, so “DJ’s year” continued, because Cade was deemed “not ready”.
I’m also convinced that this is what Dabo meant when he referred to “doing the right thing” in personnel decisions. At first this alarmed me until I realized just what you’re saying—he had made conditional promises to DJ that everyone inside the program was aware of. That’s also why the team respects DJ so highly, because he worked so hard to help the team succeed when he probably could have taken a little bit for granted.
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Game Changer [1801]
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Did he work hard? Beyond that photo op last season, can you provide any evidence?****
Dec 7, 2022, 4:12 AM
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Ultimate Tiger [33729]
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Re: Did he work hard? Beyond that photo op last season, can you provide any evidence?****
Dec 7, 2022, 6:55 AM
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We weren’t there but the announcers on the ACCCG said DJ was working extra with the WRs after the SC game. Don’t know who told them that but it is what they said. You and I weren’t there so we don’t know.
I do tend to believe he did work hard because anyone that has commented that was at practice has said this.
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MVP [512]
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Re: Did he work hard? Beyond that photo op last season, can you provide any evidence?****
Dec 9, 2022, 9:59 AM
[ in reply to Did he work hard? Beyond that photo op last season, can you provide any evidence?**** ] |
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Cade saved the Syracuse Game & looked ready to the Clemson Nation. Problem was, Dabo wasn't ready to allow him to play after that until he put him in on the 7 yd. line late in the 3rd quarter setting him up for failure. The intercepted pass was not Cade's fault for: #1 he was put in a terrible situation having not got any playing time earlier in the game with better field position. #2 Play call was totally wrong. The pass was only going to keep us at the line of scrimmage. A running call with Shipley would have been a better call. #3 NO ONE picked up the defender that hit him as he released the ball taking the zip off. Dabo should have given Cade a 2nd series while in good field position. We all know the result of that bad decision. I hope Cade will stay healthy & bring home a Victory from the Orange Bowl. Wish we would wear all Purple!
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Ring of Honor [22331]
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Re: Did he work hard? Beyond that photo op last season, can you provide any evidence?****
Dec 9, 2022, 1:04 PM
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The play was designed for no one to pick up that defender. It was a naked boot leg. A terrible call in that situation. And Cade almost bailed Streeter out. He had ngata open but the defender hit his arm and he wasn’t able to follow through.
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Walk-On [138]
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Re: If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game
Dec 7, 2022, 8:38 AM
[ in reply to Re: If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game ] |
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Let me get this straight, Cade is not ready, But DJ after 2 years was???? Must be the new math. It was hard to watch a game with DJ. He was bad and the team followed him. They also played bad. After 2 1/2 years I'm glad he is seeking new venues. The team is 100% better. Even though our million dollar make believe OC did not.
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CU Guru [1599]
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If that is true -
Dec 7, 2022, 12:04 PM
[ in reply to Re: If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game ] |
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The main mistake the coaches made was not giving Cade another drive after that INT. Interceptions are better than playing like dog crap and going 3 and out every drive. DJ got how many turnovers in that game? I'll take a DE that gets a few offsides and lot of sacks over a dud.
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Varsity [104]
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Re: If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game
Dec 7, 2022, 12:14 AM
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1st Rounder [626]
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Re: If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game
Dec 7, 2022, 12:15 AM
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I've basically said the same, without stating an actual reason, but there's no doubt it went beyond "just being loyal to someone", in my mind. There's a reason, but we'll probably never know what it actually is.
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Valley Legend [12629]
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Re: If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game
Dec 7, 2022, 6:55 AM
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I've basically said the same, without stating an actual reason, but there's no doubt it went beyond "just being loyal to someone", in my mind. There's a reason, but we'll probably never know what it actually is.
Or just maybe…you could believe reason Dabo gave us. Paraphrasing DJ was gave us the best option in terms of winning as Cade demonstrated on multiple occasions he was not ready so Dabo did not want to destroy his confidence. Remember when Bentley was thrown in at Coot U before he was ready and never recovered?
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Valley Legend [12629]
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Re: If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game
Dec 7, 2022, 6:55 AM
[ in reply to Re: If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game ] |
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I've basically said the same, without stating an actual reason, but there's no doubt it went beyond "just being loyal to someone", in my mind. There's a reason, but we'll probably never know what it actually is.
Or just maybe…you could believe reason Dabo gave us. Paraphrasing DJ was gave us the best option in terms of winning as Cade demonstrated on multiple occasions he was not ready so Dabo did not want to destroy his confidence. Remember when Bentley was thrown in at Coot U before he was ready and never recovered?
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All-Conference [408]
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Re: If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game
Dec 7, 2022, 7:06 AM
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Or just maybe…you could believe reason Dabo gave us. Paraphrasing DJ was gave us the best option in terms of winning as Cade demonstrated on multiple occasions he was not ready so Dabo did not want to destroy his confidence. Remember when Bentley was thrown in at Coot U before he was ready and never recovered?
Bentley never recovered. NEVER AGAIN did he recover.
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MVP [502]
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Re: If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game
Dec 7, 2022, 2:20 AM
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I don't believe that is the case at all. DJ is a great athlete with an amazing arm. There have been a lot of throws that he made that were a thing a beauty. Last year he was playing with a lot of injuries during the entire season. He was in because he was the best chance to win. That potential was there and Dabo knew it but for some reason it wasn't always translating to the field. The fans put a massive amount of pressure on him the past two years I think that effected him. It would have effected me. When all that racket is going on you're not going out to play the game, you are going out thinking I better not screw up.
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National Champion [7731]
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Re: Aliens Came Down And Took The Real DJ ---
Dec 7, 2022, 3:41 AM
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He came in and covered for Trevor... when Trevor had Covid . DJ did well for his first start as green as he was. Fast forward to the off-season.... thinking DJ was more knowledgeable of our scheme and nuances of our offense. Something happened in that off-season before that Georgia game... because he just would not throw that thing the way he was zipping it the year before. And this type of performance just lingered all this time.
I will forever scratch my head about it .
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Freshman [-74]
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And then what happened?
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Dec 7, 2022, 4:13 AM
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Tiger Titan [48433]
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Wrong
Dec 7, 2022, 5:47 AM
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Did not happen. This is foolish. Dabo didn’t guarantee a job for 2 years. Nope.
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Ring of Honor [22331]
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You don't know that it didn't happen
Dec 7, 2022, 9:20 AM
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Anymore than any one knows it did
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Tiger Titan [48433]
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Here's what I do know. Your theory is about as sane
Dec 7, 2022, 4:31 PM
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as saying DJ started for 2 years because the ghost of Frank Howard threatened to burn down Dabo's house if he were to bench him.
Pound sand you big dummy!
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Ring of Honor [22331]
TigerPulse: 86%
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I'll concede that my theory is slightly less insane
Dec 7, 2022, 4:45 PM
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as saying DJ gave us the best chance to win and Cade wasn't ready....
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Freshman [-74]
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So you're in the "Dabo lied to us" camp?
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Dec 7, 2022, 7:15 PM
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Now THAT'S insane.
Cade developed during the course of his freshman season, more along the lines of most true freshman.
He was 11 of 22 for 98 yards prior yo UNC. He wasn't ready. That and DJ was winning games until SC, so there was no reason to make a change.
Don't understand why people can't just take Dabo's comments at face value?
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Ring of Honor [22331]
TigerPulse: 86%
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Call it whatever you want. I have eyes.***
Dec 7, 2022, 8:04 PM
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Freshman [-74]
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Oh ok.
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Dec 7, 2022, 8:06 PM
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So 11 of 22 for 98 yards, 1 TD and 1 INT spoke, "he's ready" to you?
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Ring of Honor [22331]
TigerPulse: 86%
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Re: Oh ok.
Dec 7, 2022, 8:12 PM
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You’re not going to convince me by taking snaps that were spread across 8 games and piece milled together and handing me the stats. That proves nothing.
Try breaking down his plays like I did in this link below then get back to me on your findings and then I’ll consider your argument.
https://www.tigernet.com/forums/message.jspa?messageID=31844166#31844166
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Freshman [-74]
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Bud, you did a cut up of some good plays.
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Dec 7, 2022, 10:16 PM
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Nobody ever said he didn't have talent.
I'll just point it out again, those plays were nice but theyre parr of a bigger picture. Before UNC, Cade was:
11 of 22 (50%) for 98 yds
1 td, 1 int
15 rushes for 48 yds
Those highlights are included in there. He showed he had skills, but his overall body of work didn't indicate he should be starting.
DJ was playing well until Syracuse, but Cade didn't do enough to take the job. DJ picked up after Syracuse and he won everything until 10 minutes left in the usuc game.
Skills? Of course. But Cade developed as the year progressed. His was not an atypical learning curve.
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Ring of Honor [22331]
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Re: Bud, you did a cut up of some good plays.
Dec 7, 2022, 11:29 PM
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For one, Cade was never given time with the 1s since fall camp which is completely unheard of especially in a situation where he had to come in to bail out the starter. For 2, it wasn’t just cut up of his good plays. It was showing that 16 of 37 touches went for first down, td or 8 yards. That’s an extraordinary clip. It doesn’t count plays of 3-5 yards that stay ahead of schedule or even run plays that gain.
The kid showed the talent. The offense moved when he was in the game like it hadn’t for 2 years. It was obvious to everyone on the planet except the coaching staff and those who hang in their every word that he was heads and shoulders above DJ. And we were proven right.
And no I don’t believe for a minute that this staff disagreed with that. There’s another reason and we may never know it.
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Ultimate Tiger [35478]
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Re: Bud, you did a cut up of some good plays.
Dec 7, 2022, 11:43 PM
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Hey. He wasn't ready for 12 games, but all of a sudden, BOOOOOOOM!!! in a few days, he becomes so ready he goes into the ACCCG, a pressurized situation, not a cupcake game against one of our cupcakes, and wins the dang MVP trophy for excelling in a game that just a week before, he was no where ready to play. Don't you get it? Pumpers are never, ever going to admit that something was rotten in Clemson. It will take awhile for the stench to dissipate, but the pumpers want you to pretend it was never there.
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MVP [512]
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Re: Bud, you did a cut up of some good plays.
Dec 9, 2022, 10:05 AM
[ in reply to Re: Bud, you did a cut up of some good plays. ] |
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What about the Notre Dame Game. Get your facts straight. DJ lost that Game before the Chickens.
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Tiger Titan [48433]
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Ring of Honor [22331]
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Re: Did your stupid eyes concoct a contract
Dec 8, 2022, 1:35 AM
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I simply stated that if people want a reason to believe that’s the one to go with because it’s the most plausible.
We will never know the reason.
You getting yourself all worked up over it is just silly.
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Orange Blooded [2349]
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Re: If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game
Dec 7, 2022, 6:11 AM
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Why can’t it just be that DJ was the veteran QB who made less mistakes every day in practice? The coaches thought that they could win with their excellent defense and running game, as long as the QB did not make a ton of mistakes throughout the game. It worked well until Syracuse and then everything went downhill - DJs poor play along with fumbles added up to 2 losses at the end of the year.
This, coupled with the fact that it seems that DJ was a really good person/teammate/leader off the field made it extremely difficult to bench someone with “possible” pro talent when he was able to put it all together. They were simply hoping that the 2020 DJ would show back up, and he almost did for a few games this year (WF, NC State).
The coaches were slow to pull the trigger and make a change. They are human, it happened, time to move on and enjoy the Orange Bowl and the potential for next year.
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All-American [552]
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Re: If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game
Dec 7, 2022, 6:58 AM
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You’re making way too much sense for this board these days. Conspiracy theories are more fun.
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Ultimate Tiger [35478]
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Re: If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game
Dec 7, 2022, 11:45 PM
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I'd say excuses for Dabo are waaaay more fun.
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Ring of Honor [22331]
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Re: If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game
Dec 7, 2022, 9:21 AM
[ in reply to Re: If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game ] |
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After watching DJ play and be terrible for 2 years, the idea that this coaching staff truly thought DJ gave them the best chance to win over Cade makes less sense and is less plausible then what I suggested.
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Rival Killer [2610]
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Paw Warrior [4840]
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Re: If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game
Dec 7, 2022, 6:22 AM
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Zero chance Dabo ever offered DJ that. He knows better than we do that there’s no such thing as a can’t miss prospect and would never promise a player garantee playing time. That would do more damage to the teams trust in Dabo.
We weren’t at practice. As much as we like to think we know that Cade should have started we are not there to see how they preform each and every day. Maybe Cade is more of a GAMEDAY player. Maybe he still isn’t good at seeing defensive schemes. Maybe he was still throwing picks in practice. IDK but what you are suggesting is just not a real possibility
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game
Dec 7, 2022, 6:36 AM
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I can’t believe Dabo would be stupid enough to promise something like that. It’s possible I guess but it would be really dumb.
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All-American [567]
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Re: If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game
Dec 7, 2022, 6:49 AM
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I hope Dabo did not promise that to DJ. If he did, I hope he learned a lesson.
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Freshman [-74]
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It's just one dude in a tinfoil hat.
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Dec 7, 2022, 8:09 PM
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Nothing to see here.
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Paw Master [16638]
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This is fan fiction built on Dabo’s “contract” with CJ.
Dec 7, 2022, 6:47 AM
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That “contract” was a signed business card saying that CJ would visit Clemson. It was basically a gimmick to get CJ to
campus. To use that as evidence that Dabo is willing to do “contracts” with recruits is silly. To use it to say that Dabo would commit to a player being the starting QB of a national championship team no matter what is happening on the field is well beyond silly.
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Ring of Honor [22331]
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Re: This is fan fiction built on Dabo’s “contract” with CJ.
Dec 7, 2022, 9:23 AM
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He promised Jamie Harper the 1st carry against Alabama in 2008 as his primary recruiter.
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Paw Master [16638]
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HE couldn’t promise that in 2008.
Dec 7, 2022, 10:10 AM
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He may have relayed the deal between the two but he was neither the head coach nor the OC. He would be in no capacity to make that deal or honor it.
Besides, even if he did, you’re talking about one play for an above average program to get a 5 star RB, vs two years at the helm no matter what for an elite multi-NC winning program. Two completely different scenarios.
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National Champion [7219]
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Re: If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game
Dec 7, 2022, 7:06 AM
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While your comment may seem the most plausible, IMO, it also sends a message to the team that one player is more important than the team.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [102386]
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Thinking that is plausible impeaches Dabo's ethics.
Dec 7, 2022, 8:01 AM
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It ignores Dabo's virtue which we've seen for over a decade.
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Ring of Honor [22331]
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Re: Thinking that is plausible impeaches Dabo's ethics.
Dec 7, 2022, 9:23 AM
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How does it impeach his ethics?
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [102386]
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I can do that.
Dec 7, 2022, 12:23 PM
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Dabo is steeped in God's Word. We Christians are commanded to serve our masters like we serve God.
Eph 6:
"5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;
6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:
8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free."
My take: Serve your employer like you serve God. Do not just appear to do what's best for the company: Do what's best for the company.
Saying that Dabo wasn't doing all he could to win is saying that he is ignoring his responsibility to God.
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Ring of Honor [22331]
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Re: I can do that.
Dec 7, 2022, 1:00 PM
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So your argument for Dabo not making a promise and not breaking it is serving God? Would that not be a good reason why he’d keep the promise if he made one lol
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TigerNet Elite [69791]
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Dabo didn't do anything to Kelly...
Dec 7, 2022, 7:07 AM
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The issues with Swag were all entirely self-inflicted.
Not going to waste any time responding to the other nonsense.
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Ring of Honor [22331]
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Re: Dabo didn't do anything to Kelly...
Dec 7, 2022, 7:15 AM
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That’s not the way I meant it. Just meant getting benched for a freshman.
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TigerNet Elite [69791]
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Kelly is one of those people...
Dec 7, 2022, 7:34 AM
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you'd like to buy for what they're actually worth and sell them for what they think they're worth.
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Ring of Honor [22331]
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TigerNet Elite [69791]
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Dabo didn't do anything to him either...
Dec 7, 2022, 10:06 AM
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other than park his butt on the bench for a much better generational QB and future first round draft pick. The fact that KB got his feelings hurt for being benched, and then quit on his team, was his own fault.
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Ring of Honor [22331]
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Re: Dabo didn't do anything to him either...
Dec 7, 2022, 11:05 AM
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I never claimed Dabo did anything to him. My point is KB got upset over it and the same could have very well happened with Big Dave etc if such a promise were made.
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Orange Immortal [65517]
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I don't think there's any way Dabo promised anybody
Dec 7, 2022, 7:36 AM
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anything for 2 years. Too much can happen over 2 years; injuries, poor performance, academic and legal problems, etc.. Even with some qualification, it's a horrible idea, for instance:
"DJ, if you come to Clemson, keep your nose clean and do what I tell you, you will start for 2 years after Trevor leaves; you will be The Man, and then go on to the NFL - I GUARANTEE IT, YOU HAVE MY WORD!".
There is no way Dabo made such a promise. Unless a secret recording pops up that proves it, I will never believe it. DJ could turn out to be ineffective, and not the player he was projected to be (imagine that!) for a variety of reasons, so it would be insane to make such a promise; it's just too far fetched. However, what has happened, with DJ struggling so obviously and so mightily, yet still playing while a clearly better player sits on the bench, does defy explanation - no doubt about it. The fact that this has even happened automatically prompts such speculation as this, and the fact that Dabo has given no real plausible explanation himself, and instead has deflected and been defensive about it, has only made it worse. In cases like that, I look for the most reasonable, likey explanation, and I think it's this: DJ had flashes of greatness early on, and even intermitently along the way. On top of that, he had become a quiet, strong leader on this team. His team mates loved and respected him. Dabo, understandably, places a high priority on that kind of leadership and what it means for team unity (maybe a little too high), and therefore, wanting to send that message to his team, including those who would be returning as well as potential recruits, stuck with DJ too long. As I've said before, loyalty and team unity are core aspects of Dabo's philosophy, so while I have no secret contacts with inside info, that seems far more likely to me than Dabo promising anybody they would start for 2 years.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [102386]
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That is the one thing I have categorically rejected.
Dec 7, 2022, 8:03 AM
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It flies in the face of Dabo's integrity.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [102386]
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I think it's more reasonable to consider that DJ was...
Dec 7, 2022, 7:49 AM
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as frustrated with his performance last season as we were and was ready to give up on football. I know that's based on a rumor but he could not have been satisfied. The other factor was the distractions from personal issues he faced.
I can envision Dabo pleading with him to continue, not just for Clemson's needs for a QB but for the boy himself.
I do not believe Dabo made a commitment past giving DJ every opportunity to succeed.
I'm glad that is over.
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Commissioner [978]
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Re: If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game
Dec 7, 2022, 7:53 AM
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I just think DJ shows out bigtime in practice. Then in the game "sometimes" he freezes, or his confidence goes down the tubes. Plus, he's big, strong, great arm and does look the part. He's just inconsistent in games. A couple good games then a couple bad games. The coaches know he can do it, but then he freezes or is unsure of himself, so he reacts slow and plays slow. That first pass he threw the other night was lack of confidence.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [102386]
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That first pass was fear of getting picked.
Dec 7, 2022, 8:05 AM
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I agree, it stems from lack of confidence.
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CU Medallion [20801]
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I don’t want / need a reason
1
Dec 7, 2022, 7:57 AM
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Solid Orange [1334]
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Re: If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game
Dec 7, 2022, 8:01 AM
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Good post coaches make mistakes even those that have won 2 Natty's . The End I'm out .. Now I'll wait and see how these great coaches scheme and attack UT with a young QB.
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Orange Phenom [14754]
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I guess anything is possible but I highly doubt this was
Dec 7, 2022, 8:14 AM
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the case with DJ. Dabo, on more than one occasion, has stated "no starter has a lifetime contract". He has also built our program on competition - fair competition where the only guarantees he offers recruits is an opportunity to compete for a starting job.
The idea the Dabo somehow guaranteed DJ he would be the starter for the two years after Trevor Lawrence departed is highly doubtful in my mind. Instead, I think the real reason Dabo started DJ is rather simple: Dabo started DJ because he felt DJ offered the team the best chance to win. Reasonable people can debate whether Dabo gave DJ that benefit of the doubt for too long but we also haven't seen what Dabo saw everyday in practice.
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All-Pro [765]
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Dabo has always said
Dec 7, 2022, 8:36 AM
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"the best players are gonna play. You gotta earn it." I believe him. I don't believe he promises playing time. He promises an opportunity to play.
Evidence is the players we have going to the portal. Many of these guys are talented but have not gotten the playing time they have wanted because other guys are better or have earned it in the coaches evaluations. This says to me that Dabo does NOT promise playing time.
He's said for weeks that DJ "has to play well" or the next guy's coming in. SC game is the only one where that didn't happen for some reason. But I believe that we played well enough to win the SC game. The three turnovers beat us in that one.
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Ring of Honor [22331]
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Re: Dabo has always said
Dec 7, 2022, 9:26 AM
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Well he definitely promised Jamie Harper the first carry against Alabama with James Davis and CJ Spiller sitting on the sideline so that is precedent in simplest forms.
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TigerNet Icon [152682]
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Re: Dabo has always said
Dec 7, 2022, 10:24 AM
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"During his recruiting pitch, Clemson coach Tommy Bowden promised Harper he would get the first carry of the season, regardless of the circumstances. Bowden had made similar promises while recruiting James Davis and C. J. Spiller." -Wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_Harper
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Paw Master [16638]
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What do you think happened there? You think the WR coach
Dec 7, 2022, 11:48 AM
[ in reply to Re: Dabo has always said ] |
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went back to the head coach and the OC and told them that they have to give his freshman recruit the ball on the first play?
Dabo didn’t make that deal. And again, the situations are completely different.
I know Dj played longer than most of us thought was reasonable but this is a conspiracy theory that is waaaaay out there. As said above, the more likely explanation is that Dabo really thought DJ would pull it together and ultimately gave us the best chance to win. Now, that in itself might be concerning, but not as much as guaranteeing the starting QB spot, NO MATTER WHAT, To a high school recruit for two/three years from then.
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Ring of Honor [22331]
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Re: What do you think happened there? You think the WR coach
Dec 7, 2022, 12:13 PM
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Absolutely. He was Harper's primary recruiter.
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TigerNet Icon [152682]
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Then Tommy Bowden is a pretty big liar…
Dec 7, 2022, 2:02 PM
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CLEMSON, S.C. -- “Clemson coach Tommy Bowden says he's glad he did it, and he'd do it again. And as it happens, he has. Numerous times.
Among the things Bowden took criticism for after a 34-10 loss to Alabama was allowing freshman Jamie Harper get Clemson's first carry ahead of James Davis or C.J. Spiller.”
“As I told C.J. and James, 'This is it. You all know the story. You were all recruited under the same pretense. You all cheer for him for two plays and go play the game,"' Bowden said. "That's pretty much what happened."
https://www.wcnc.com/amp/article/sports/clemsons-bowden-defends-promise-kept/275-374746134
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Ring of Honor [22331]
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Re: Then Tommy Bowden is a pretty big liar…
Dec 7, 2022, 2:33 PM
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This does not mean that Dabo didn't take the idea to Bowden. We don't know that Harper didn't request it being that he was coming in behind James and CJ. Dabo was the primary recruiter and primary contact.
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Paw Master [16638]
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Oh, then Streeter is the issue. He was his DJ’s primary
Dec 7, 2022, 3:11 PM
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recruiter so according to you, he would have been the one who made the deal with DJ.
Right?
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Ring of Honor [22331]
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Absolutely. Dabo would obviously have to sign off on it
Dec 7, 2022, 3:15 PM
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Just as Bowden.
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Paw Master [16638]
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Alrighty man. If that’s what you think, have at it.***
Dec 7, 2022, 3:35 PM
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Asst Coach [839]
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Re: If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game
Dec 7, 2022, 9:30 AM
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Bull Hockey!
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Orange Elite [5464]
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Re: If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game
Dec 7, 2022, 10:33 AM
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There's stipulations in every contract, and not living up to certain things should've been on there. I for one would feel horrible if I knew I was letting the whole team down and just kept going in anyway. Everyone could see it...including Dabo, I just don't like the catering to 1 guy while leading 70+ others down.
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Top TigerNet [32927]
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Re: Assuming Big Dave didn't have compromising photos of
Dec 7, 2022, 10:36 AM
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Dabo in a safe deposit box somewhere, then your theory is as plausible as any.
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Offensive Star [347]
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Dabo has never handled QB transitions well IMHO,
Dec 7, 2022, 12:47 PM
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and I get that they’re extremely emotionally-charged, high-stakes decisions that drastically change the entire football program, for better or worse. And there will be haters no matter what the decision. But there’s just something about the way Dabo has handled these pivotal transitions in the past that makes me kind of upset. It seems like he hangs on to the old QB way too long and is too unwilling to let the past go; like he can’t be “All-in” with the new QB, who is the future of our program. Anyone else feel that way? Or am I the only one?
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Ring of Honor [22331]
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Re: Dabo has never handled QB transitions well IMHO,
Dec 7, 2022, 1:09 PM
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I think Dabo handled the Trevor/Kelly Bryant situation perfectly. Kelly was a winning QB. Our offense was respectable with Kelly. Took us to the playoffs. The team loved him. I don’t think it could have been handled any better than it was by giving him the maximum chance to beat Trevor within the limits of retaining that year.
For Watson/Stoudt I think it was handled bad. Watson should have been the starter out of Fall camp and Dabo was too loyal to Stoudt for staying around for so long. Stoud hadn’t proven at any stage that he deserved to be the starter like Kelly did. You can really argue either way here on whether that was good or bad on Dabo’s part for being loyal but at no time was Stoudt a better QB or had proven anything.
The DJ/Cade situation was handled horribly. DJ never won a QB battle and was simply heir apparent. He hadn’t and still hasn’t proven that he could be the QB at Clemson University. Our Offense was terrible for 2 solid seasons yet Cade didn’t even get time with the 1s for most of the season. Egregious mishandling.
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Clemson Conqueror [11117]
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Re: If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game
Dec 7, 2022, 1:10 PM
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If I was as bad at times as DJ was I would have taken myself out of the game instead of hurting my team.
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Ring of Honor [22331]
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Re: If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game
Dec 7, 2022, 2:45 PM
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To this point, rumor is DJ wanted to quit at some point and was talked out of it by Dabo and his mother.....I do not have any authoritative proof.
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Dynasty Maker [3283]
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I've been a big critic, but I can't see that one . . .
Dec 7, 2022, 2:09 PM
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I mean, what are we talking about here, that Dabo promised DJ (or his father) that he'd start him come hell or high water through nearly the end of his junior year?
I mean, I suppose you mean something more subtle than that . . . but if it IS more subtle, then it would probably involve a lot more wiggle room for Dabo, meaning he wouldn't have had to push it this far.
Are we really to believe that Dabo wanted to start Klub . . . say, after the Syr game, or after the ND game, or, in the second half against SC, but felt he couldn't b/c of some promise?
I don't claim inside info on this one way or the other but it just doesn't see to be plausible.
That's my two cents, anyway.
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Ring of Honor [22331]
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Re: I've been a big critic, but I can't see that one . . .
Dec 7, 2022, 2:50 PM
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We sign #1 recruit Deshaun Watson and win a championship
We sign #1 recruit Trevor Lawrence and win a championship
You're sitting in the living room of the next #1 recruit on your board who, by all indications, could very well be BETTER than those last 2. There's no doubt in your mind that you believe the kid is the next great QB to take your school to it's 3rd title in 6 or 7 years. If he comes to your school you're convinced that he will be the face of the school for at least 2 years as the starter. What do you have to lose by promising what is already inevitable if the kid (or his father who wanted him to play right away) is wavering on sitting behind Trevor Lawrence?
If this did occur, could you possibly bench the guy and risk that a promise you made on the recruiting trail being broken get out for the world to use against you in the future?
Just a theory. I'm not saying I even believe it. Just providing a plausible one for people who want a conclusion.
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Orange Blooded [2158]
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Re: If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game
Dec 7, 2022, 2:24 PM
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this is stupid...
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Clemson Icon [24210]
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Because we were 9-1 with him (Syracuse goes to Cade)
Dec 7, 2022, 2:39 PM
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I think he believed that DJ was the best bet to win that particular game.
Had he known Cade could be ACCCG MVP then I think Dabo would have played him against SCAR.
He said after the ACCCG that he "tried" to make the switch at ND but Cade threw that bad INT. That real thing that happened likely spooked the staff. So while DJ obviously limits our offense, he mostly didn't make any horrifically bad decisions. Maybe they thought he was the safer option and that we were good enough with DJ to beat SCAR. Without the fumbles who knows.
I get the argument that Cade should have been put in.... but people are freaking out about it as if they are SURE it would have worked. They are not actually sure. They are high on hindsight.
I just hope Cade has another great game against Tennessee. Everyone is acting like we got Trevor back or something.
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Ring of Honor [22331]
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Many of us knew Cade would be the ACCCG MVP
Dec 7, 2022, 2:51 PM
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if he got to play the majority of it. We knew it weeks ago.
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Clemson Icon [24210]
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A broken clock is right twice a season.
Dec 7, 2022, 4:29 PM
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You didn't "know" anything. You probably believed a lot of things, some of which could be true and others not. So much hubris.
Tell us, what will transpire in the Orange Bowl? Will he be MVP again?
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Ring of Honor [22331]
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More than likely. He's by far the best player we have on
Dec 7, 2022, 4:34 PM
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offense and has been on season albeit on the bench.
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Associate AD [807]
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Re: If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game
Dec 7, 2022, 3:25 PM
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Why not accept Coach Swinney and Streeter at their word for 11 games and 60 plus pratices they did not recognize that Cade was a better QB than DJ. Doesnt that sound possible?
Message was edited by: prefab®
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Ring of Honor [22331]
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No, it sounds absolutely impossible
Dec 7, 2022, 3:33 PM
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There is nothing in this world or on this planet that will convince me that Streeter and Dabo truly believed DJ to be the better QB than Cade. And that began in my mind after the GT game much less through the rest of the season. Just not possible AT ALL in my mind.
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TigerNet Icon [152682]
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Is that the same mind that came up with the OP?***
Dec 7, 2022, 4:59 PM
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Ring of Honor [22331]
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Yes, a beautiful mind***
Dec 7, 2022, 5:00 PM
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Ring of Honor [22331]
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But I had read it elsewhere before in the link by
Dec 7, 2022, 5:02 PM
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Lake Hartwell Pigskin up above and just didn't remember where. Added a few details of my own to the theory. Still more plausible than the party line....
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National Champion [7679]
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Associate AD [807]
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Why not accept coach Swinney and coach Streeter
Dec 7, 2022, 3:35 PM
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at their word. For 12 games and 60 plus practices they did not recognize that Cade was a better QB for this system than DJ. Is that not plausible.
Message was edited by: prefab®
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TigerNet Icon [152682]
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It is more plausible that Dabo...
Dec 7, 2022, 4:53 PM
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told Tommy Bowden that he, even though Dabo was not the head coach or OC, needs to let him sign contracts on business cards that guarantee players certain numbers of snaps. Tommy knew this was a terrible idea after the game against Alabama where Harper fumbled, but still took credit for the scheme publicly. Dabo, after seeing how this played out, decided after he was a head coach that he would continue to sign contracts on business cards, and honor them, even if it hurt the team. In this case, the business card contract stated DJ would be guaranteed starts in every game after his freshman year, but prior to his senior year, regardless of performance, except for the bowl game his junior year, that game was not guaranteed. Dabo stuck to this business card contract because he was afraid of the damage it could do to his reputation if he didn't and DJ's dad went public.
This isn't that difficult.
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Solid Orange [1393]
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nonsense***
Dec 7, 2022, 4:49 PM
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National Champion [7679]
TigerPulse: 100%
42
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Re: If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game
Dec 7, 2022, 5:06 PM
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Pretty sure other teams are using DJ being a disappointment here on the recruiting trail as well. Since we are going to be vilified either way by other teams we may as well go ahead and play whoever gives us the best chance to win.
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Ring of Honor [22331]
TigerPulse: 86%
53
Posts: 18677
Joined: 2007
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I'd say there's a huge difference in
Dec 7, 2022, 5:19 PM
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"so and so didn't pan out at Clemson"
and
"The staff at clemson made a promise to so and so and completely went back on it"
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1st Rounder [678]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game
Dec 7, 2022, 10:38 PM
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i would agree - there was definitely something a little awkward/not natural along the way...and that was completely gone on stage after the ACC game...Dabo was "Dabo" after the game and didn't have the weight of whatever that "unnatural" pressure was that was in place on those most uncomfortable wins.
I hope he stays for 30 more years - (Tigers looking good tonight at Littlejohn!)
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Ultimate Tiger [35478]
TigerPulse: 100%
56
Posts: 17295
Joined: 2008
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Re: If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game
Dec 7, 2022, 11:28 PM
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Nailed it.
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Paw Warrior [4886]
TigerPulse: 100%
37
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Re: If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game
Dec 8, 2022, 6:36 AM
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Yep I agree with you about Dabo^^^^^^
The Georgia game last year was the most uncomfortable game I’ve watched in a long time. Just frustrating. It made it worse since there is no team or fan base I dislike more than them. Uncomfortable is the word I would use to describe games last year with DJ. No confidence. I really hoped he would improve going into this season and he really did until he started looking like the DJ of last year again at times.
I really like DJ and I would love to see him go to another school and just be really successful. That would make me so happy for him.
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Commissioner [942]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game
Dec 9, 2022, 1:49 PM
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That was my first game as a student at Clemson, i totally agree. I have waited patiently ever since for DJ to show his natural talent which still has a huge upside, but it never materialized. I still wish the best for him wherever he ends up, he’s a great guy and it’s no easy task trying to replace the legacy of Deshaun and Trevor especially with the offensive coaching issues and serious dropoff in quality at the receiver skill positions
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Orange Blooded [2273]
TigerPulse: 96%
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Re: If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game
Dec 8, 2022, 7:47 AM
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That's promising too much if he did but obviously there was some faulty thinking that went into starting him late in the season.
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Tiger Cub [18]
TigerPulse: 95%
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Re: If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game
Dec 9, 2022, 12:58 PM
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I don't doubt that Dabo is a man of his word: say what you'll do, then do it. What a concept! But no one knows what conversations he had with D.J. since it's all conjecture, here's some more.
Something happened to D.J. during the interim between his stellar performance at Notre Dame his freshman year and the 2021 season. I think it was personal. Maybe his parents' divorce in 2021 had a profound effect on him. Who knows what it was like having Big Dave as a father? Who knows how he really is around D.J., especially when mom was no longer there to calm the big guy? Who knows if D.J. was abused by a demanding dad? For that matter, who knows anything at all about why an elite athlete crashed and burned? As I said, it's all conjecture.
But something happened to kill his confidence. You can't have his skillset and pre-Clemson record without something living in his head. All I know is that the guy we recruited was the guy who showed up in the Notre Dame game in 2020 and played brilliantly.
Whatever ails D.J. is between his ears. He's still a great athlete who needs to get his mind right. We'll be saying "#### he's good" when he lands somewhere--and he WILL be taken from the portal. I wish him success, but most of all happiness. He seems like a good guy who's had a terrible run. So, let's get behind Cade; he, too, is a great athlete. I think we're going to be fine in the polls and on the recruiting trail--IF WE BEAT THE VOLS.
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Commissioner [942]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: If y’all want a reason why DJ started every game
Dec 9, 2022, 1:44 PM
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I find this a lot more reasonable and in line with Dabo’s character than the ugly allegations about nil money being thrown around the boards
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