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Webmaster [∞]
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Campus Update: Clemson's Tillman Hall vandalized with graffiti
Jul 6, 2015, 10:01 PM
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Associate AD [833]
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Beasley was a violent coot killer
Jul 6, 2015, 10:15 PM
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RIP Dylan Thompson
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Oculus Spirit [39350]
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Re: Beasley was a violent coot killer
Jul 6, 2015, 10:18 PM
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Steven Spurrier is a violent beer swiller
RIP Yeungling Amber
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TigerNet Elite [77085]
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OBEY
Jul 6, 2015, 10:17 PM
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CU Guru [1497]
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Re: OBEY
Jul 7, 2015, 9:21 AM
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Too bad we can't get some cool graffiti like that. This scrawl has no artistic value.
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Walk-On [137]
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Re: OBEY
Jul 7, 2015, 10:58 AM
[ in reply to OBEY ] |
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RIP Andre the Giant.
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Orange Blooded [3258]
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That is it!. Armed guards with orders to take no prisoners
Jul 6, 2015, 10:22 PM
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if Clemson property is damaged or in jeopardy. "Nip it. nip it in the bud!"
I am all for removing the flag, but history cannot be re-written.
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Game Day Hero [4133]
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I agree with taking down the flag
Jul 6, 2015, 10:26 PM
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But a question must be asked, if you take down a flag aren't you rewriting history based on something like renaming Tillman Hall?
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Orange Blooded [3258]
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Flag being moved, but changing names is changing history.***
Jul 6, 2015, 10:59 PM
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Clemson Icon [24158]
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So what you're saying is
Jul 7, 2015, 5:52 AM
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It should still be called the Old Main Building, and renaming it Tillman Hill in 1946 was an affront to our history?
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Clemson Icon [24158]
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Hall, not Hill***
Jul 7, 2015, 5:53 AM
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Clemson Icon [24158]
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All-Pro [762]
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Re: It's not as if "Tillman Hall" was the building's original name
Jul 7, 2015, 8:40 AM
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But why should we rename it? To appease people that will never be satisfied? It won't stop at Tillman and it won't stop with the flag. You give an inch and they'll take a mile. I find Malcolm X racist, so I have the right to demand anything with his name be changed, or is it only applicable if it's a white man who's racist? Times change and people's views change, but to try to change history because someone's views don't align with yours is asinine.
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Mascot [20]
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Re: It's not as if "Tillman Hall" was the building's original name
Jul 7, 2015, 9:14 AM
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I don't think many building are named after Malcolm X, but I understand your point.
It seems like a slippery slope when people decide to ignore major contributions of a historic individual because they believed in social factors that were prevalent at the time. George Washington owned slaves, but no one is putting graffiti on the Washington Monument.
I'm also concerned that if Tillman Hall is renamed, this same group will go after Strom Thurmond since he opposed the 1964 Civil Rights Act. People need to realize that the South has a history and you can't just ignore that history and only name buildings after minorities or individuals that are in the current social thinking as you currently live.
I hope the individuals are caught and held to the same recourse as damaging Howards Rock. Enough of my rant, and as always, Go Tigers!
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Ring of Honor [22911]
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Varsity [226]
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Re: It's not as if "Tillman Hall" was the building's original name
Jul 7, 2015, 10:20 AM
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I can't believe that this is coming up again. So many people seem to think renaming a building is rewriting history. What crap! History is history. It isn't changed by renaming a building. For those that think it is terrible for the university to be PC get a clue. The university HAS to be PC! Tillman was a politician for gosh sakes!!! The university is supported by the politicians as much as us alumni and they can do more harm than we can. Public perception of our university is of ultimate importance! Renaming a building (again!) is no big deal. Happens all the time. It is not Dulles anymore it is Ronald Reagan International. NO big deal. No history gets rewritten...Tillman was a red shirt vigilante that BRAGGED about hanging and killing blacks. That is history. He was being vetted for President until he ranted about how harshly we should treat the blacks and even his own party disowned him. For those that say this is a knee jerk reaction...what isn't? It is always an event that is a catalyst for change. Where would the world be if Pearl Harbor hadn't happened? If MLK hadn't been assassinated? If the tsunami hadn't hit Japan? I am proud of the way my state has reacted to this catalyst. The flag should come down. Why do we have a Northern VA battle flag flying at our state house? Where is the history in that? Actually it was a FU to the civil rights movement in 1960's. Is that the history we want to remember and venerate?
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Ring of Honor [22911]
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Re: It's not as if "Tillman Hall" was the building's original name
Jul 7, 2015, 10:34 AM
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Tillman Hall is ICONIC to Clemson(it's on the National Register of Historic Places). How is changing the name of the building not changing history at all? It changes the building history and Clemson University history.
I'm offended that people are offended by individuals who lived during a time when his line of thinking was the norm. Sounds ridiculous right???
Was it right? not only no but he!! no, but at that point in time it was unfortunately a normal occurrence.
I'd like to believe that if he were alive today, he'd see the fault in the line of thinking from that era.
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Orange Elite [5421]
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Re: It's not as if "Tillman Hall" was the building's original name
Jul 7, 2015, 1:14 PM
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The fact the building wasn't originally named Tillman hall is even a greater reason to return it to it's original name.
Why was it ok to rewrite history in 1946?
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Orange Blooded [2537]
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Re: why reply coot...? who asked your opinion?
Jul 7, 2015, 1:21 PM
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Yep, it's a tiger fan forum....get to scratching & go lay an egg.
TEAR DOWN THE USUCK SLAVE-QUARTERS!!!!
BURN THE CAPITOL BUILDING & STATE HOUSE!!!!
HANG ALL THE CLEMSON FANS!!!
"F"-off shamecluck....Y'all have ZERO "0" to tout 
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Varsity [121]
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Re: It's not as if "Tillman Hall" was the building's original name
Jul 8, 2015, 5:38 PM
[ in reply to Re: It's not as if "Tillman Hall" was the building's original name ] |
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All this slinging the accusations of being a racist around comes from a good bit of ignorance in their own past! Looking at some of the vile comments made on a Gamecock board is a good illustration. If you are white and your ancestry is in the south, a good chance is that you have ancestors who had slaves as well. As a genealogist, I have gone through MANY records, and I will safely say that if you are white and from the south, there is a better than 50% chance that your ancestors had slaves. It could be as high as 60 to 70%. I do not know if any specific study was done on this, but if you know your ancestry, some easy and available documents is to go back and look at census records.
So then, if your ancestors did in fact have slaves, does that make you a racist, or should your surname be considered tainted? Just some food for thought.
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Clemson Icon [24158]
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Might wanna do a little more research..
Jul 8, 2015, 6:09 PM
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According to the 1860 Census, less than 5% of Southerners owned slaves.
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Varsity [121]
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Re: Might wanna do a little more research..
Jul 10, 2015, 4:16 PM
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I've studied the US Census records from the very first one in 1790 to the 1860 US Census that you mentioned. 1850 & 1860 actually went to a separate 'Slave Census'. Prior to 1850, slave numbers were listed in the census with the household members and was strictly numbers. As you say, 4.8% of the "total" US Census listings had slaves. MUCH higher in the south and particularly South Carolina. Here is what was written in one study:
Quote...Almost one-third, or 33% of all Southern families owned slaves. In Mississippi and South Carolina it approached one half. The total number of slave owners was 385,000 (including, in Louisiana, some free Negroes). As for the number of slaves owned by each master, 88% held fewer than twenty, and nearly 50% held fewer than five...unquote.
So listing a number for the "entire" 1860 US Census and not just regarding the south, or especially South Carolina, means nothing to my argument.
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All-Pro [762]
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Varsity [226]
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Re: It's not as if "Tillman Hall" was the building's original name
Jul 7, 2015, 11:14 AM
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Sorry you are right it used to be Washington National. Still a name change.
So really changing the name originally was changing history then? It wasn't named Tillman when it was built. The BUILDING is historic not the name!!! The name was assigned to the building in the 40's during a time when Tillman's grandson pushed the board of trustees to RENAME THE BUILDING to honor his father.
To say that everyone from that era felt the same way is ludicrous. Tillman was a murderer by his own admission. He hated slaves and thought they were animals. Even after the war he tried to subjugate the "slaves" and make sure they were treated subhumanly. Did others feel the same way? Sure. but most did not have the power or the forum to push those hates on others like Tillman did. And most did not murder them because they were black and none of them have their name on the side of the MOST ICONIC building in Clemson. Should we be proud that there is a building at Clemson is named after him?
Lets turn this around...if there was a Sandusky hall in Happy Valley...should Penn State rename a building that was named after a pedophile that raped kids? If you say he was a great coach that allowed them to win the national championship so that is history and wipes out anything else he did I will puke. No difference.
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Recruit [93]
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Re: It's not as if "Tillman Hall" was the building's original name
Jul 7, 2015, 1:04 PM
[ in reply to It's not as if "Tillman Hall" was the building's original name ] |
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To the perps: Graffiti is such a brave way to express your outrage and so easy.
1. Run to the local hardware.
2. Grab can of red paint. (Shouldn't it really have been Orange?!)
3. Take time to look up quote. (Threaten present day pols for good measure!)
4. Feel morally superior.
Now tackling black on black crime, illegitimacy and drop out rates, joblessness,black racism etc. (refer to Duke prof who just got another job due to her views.) Now that takes a little more effort. Isn't it so easy to condemn the past rather than correct the future?
P.S. How quick would marches erupt in Tallahassee if that FSU QB (and JW for that matter) had been white and his VICTIM black. Never mind, I'm just one more racist white guy.
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Orange Blooded [2537]
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Re: SADLY....you ARE spot-on!!!
Jul 7, 2015, 1:17 PM
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I've been ranting & blogging on some of your same points too, and NOT to deflect....but to address REAL ISSUES affecting everyday life.
not in a racial or color-skewed manner but simply in the most obviously equal, scientific, & statistical way possible - by family income/poverty level!!! (regardless of ethnicity)
The scapegoating, deflection, & name/blame-calling, & unaccountability has to stop!
Let's fix the true problems we're facing that affect us all now, then worry about the stuff the won't make, break, or KILL us!!!
Well said also 180Tiger
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Solid Orange [1310]
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This is getting ridiculous
Jul 6, 2015, 11:32 PM
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The media is spearheading this race relations frenzy bc it gets clicks and viewers and spurns complete idiots to perform dispicable acts such as this.
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Dynasty Maker [3283]
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Which is why
Jul 7, 2015, 12:12 AM
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whenever the media and the progressives wets their pants over something, we all ought to hit back twice as hard, give them the finger, tell them to kiss off, and just let the media cycle die out. Giving in only encourages them more. It's all the posturing and capitulating that makes them ask for more, more more. It was supposedly just the confederate flag on the statehouse, b/c it was in such a prominent, and official place - but then it turned into Amazon, Walmart, Ebay and others refusing to sell Dukes of Hazzard cars and Civil War computer games, along with various local fracases across the South about local government and school building names, memorials, and the like.
Next time they go all PC-Nazi on us, we should tell them to put a sock in it, and we should let them cry it out like a kid with the terrible-twos, until they get tired of their own tantrum.
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Orange Immortal [62783]
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Re: This is getting ridiculous
Jul 7, 2015, 1:25 AM
[ in reply to This is getting ridiculous ] |
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Plus One for,,,, spurns "complete idiots" to perform despicable acts such as those!!!
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National Champion [7674]
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Re: Campus Update: Clemson's Tillman Hall vandalized with graffiti
Jul 6, 2015, 11:43 PM
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Haley has emboldened the far left with her comments
...the flag is just the beginning
The state paper had one quote today where a state politician said "we want this vote as quickly as possible" ...and amendment free - knee jerk, knee jerk
and then my state senator says other monuments and museums are protected by the heritage act - which requires 2/3 vote to remove!...well you are setting precedent my friend
this isn't a black / white thing, its a blue / red thing
and its a shame...politics get in the way of true progress
one team constantly on the attack and the other playing defense
and the reality...the score is very lopsided these days
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CU Guru [1497]
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Once you make concessions there is no end in sight!
Jul 7, 2015, 9:26 AM
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"If you give a mouse a cookie, he's going to ask for a glass of milk. When you give him the milk, he'll probably ask you for a straw. When he's finished, he'll ask you for a napkin..."
And on and on and on...
There is no way to ever satisfy the PC crowd, once you give in to one demand, they already have two more things lined up to complain about.
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Letterman [264]
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Tiger Titan [48079]
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Maybe we should....
Jul 7, 2015, 5:43 AM
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judge these people for they really were.
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Clemson Conqueror [11347]
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Am I mistaken - but didn't Thomas Green Clemson provide
Jul 7, 2015, 9:31 AM
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support of some sort for the Confederacy during the Civil War? Wasn't he one of the traitorous scum that I've heard the media referring to when talking about reasons to take down the flag?
I guess I wonder where the slippery slope ends.
If the name on Tillman Hall is offensive to someone - then what about the name of our University?
Political Correctness has run amuck.
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Head Coach [775]
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Re: Am I mistaken - but didn't Thomas Green Clemson provide
Jul 7, 2015, 9:55 AM
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Don't distort the facts! Clemson was a scholar and a diplomat. He served under Pres Buchanan as the Nat'l Director of Ag. When the civil war broke out he supported his adopted state of South Carolina....he didn't want his land and vision to be destroyed in the war...he had a strong vision that SC could be a national leader in Agriculture & Science and feared mass destruction to the state as shots were fired on Ft Sumter. Again, don't even go there to try and distort the facts on T.G. Clemson. He was a national leader, visionary and very noble and respected man!! He did more for SC than most people will ever know. His cause was not about race or the civil war...his cause was about developing excellence in agriculture and science to feed the world!!
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Clemson Conqueror [11347]
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He supported the Confederates - which means he supported
Jul 7, 2015, 10:23 AM
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slavery. There is no gray area here. Haven't you been watching CNN?
It doesn't matter what other noble qualities he possessed. Confederate = pro-enslavement of negroes = automatic scumbag
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Tiger Spirit [9902]
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And the person who did this is a COWARDLY Vandal and piece..
Jul 7, 2015, 11:10 AM
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of *&^%!
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Starter [362]
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It is a form of intimidation to get their way.
Jul 7, 2015, 11:24 AM
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Distasteful intimidation with total disregard for Clemson and it's property.
These people don't love Clemson, or care about the history, they just like to fight cowardly in the
dark. They don't differ from all criminals. They feel entitled, and will do whatever, and break
whatever law needs to be broken to get their way. Eventually the school with do whatever this group wants in order to prevent further intimidation and damage. They know it, so they will continue to bully.
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Orange Phenom [14588]
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Or just some SC fan stirring up trouble for us. Sadly one
Jul 7, 2015, 1:09 PM
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is about as likely as the other.
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Tiger Spirit [9902]
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Wasn't some of the USC campus actually constructed with...
Jul 7, 2015, 3:06 PM
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slave labor. Can't say that at Clemson. They shouldn't be throwing stones.
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Varsity [226]
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Re: It is a form of intimidation to get their way.
Jul 7, 2015, 2:16 PM
[ in reply to It is a form of intimidation to get their way. ] |
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I certainly don't condone defacing Clemson property but really...you need to read your post. Tillman was part of the red shirts which were a vigilante group much like the KKK that hid their faces and killed people. Not just paint but hung people in the dark! Nobody felt more "entitled" than the red shirts and they would do whatever it took and break whatever law to get their way. Nobody bullied more than the group Tillman was a part of and then bragged about on the floor of the Senate. Sounds like they know more about the history than you do.
Doesn't make what these people did to that building right or OK but sounds a little hypocritical to criticize them in the way you did.
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Clemson Conqueror [11268]
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Re: Campus Update: Clemson's Tillman Hall vandalized with graffiti
Jul 10, 2015, 4:22 PM
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This is the #BlackLivesMatter group doing this. Professional agitators sent to foment unrest. Unfortunately for them after the Charleston massacre, they say a bunch of southern God fearing people offering love and forgiveness. So they are shifting their tactics to vandalism of southern memorial/heritage sites. If you see them, they are likely not to be armed since they probably don't believe in the second amendment. Lock and load and send these carpetbaggers home!
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