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110%er [3684]
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Is it just me or is it telling that
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Jun 17, 2025, 1:45 PM
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Religious folks (not just Christians) fight amongst themselves but atheists do not?
You don’t see different sects and denominations among those people. They just simply don’t believe.
Anytime you bring people together there will be fighting and bickering yes, but it seems that would be a way to differentiate it as truth…if there was total harmony and unity.
Just a thought.
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Associate AD [1061]
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Re: was waiting on a big reveal coming
Jun 17, 2025, 3:06 PM
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Guess I'll just keep waiting?
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Letterman [155]
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Its why the middle east is such a mess
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Jun 17, 2025, 3:45 PM
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Adults fighting over which myth is correct
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110%er [3957]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
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Jun 17, 2025, 9:18 PM
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If your point is that religious people "fight" regarding their beliefs, it seems only natural that people with no beliefs would have fewer beliefs to fight over.
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Letterman [155]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
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Jun 17, 2025, 9:34 PM
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It’s basic tribalism, a tail as old as time.
It is very useful evolutionary to be part of an ingroup.
Religion is just yet another way humans organize.
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110%er [3684]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 17, 2025, 10:39 PM
[ in reply to Re: Is it just me or is it telling that ] |
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You are correct, but my point is that it seems like it should be the opposite.
If there truly was a divine spirit moving among these religious beings, shouldn’t they be in perfect harmony with each other?
How could two believers possibly have any disagreement if they both believe the “truth”?
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National Champion [7287]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 18, 2025, 10:42 AM
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It depends on how you look at it I guess. For example, Two seminary professors I know were arguing over Calvinism. The Calvinist was a professor in the theology dept. The non Calvinist a professor in the Philosophy department. The Calvinist was decidedly winning the discussion. The non Calvinist finally said “I know what Scripture says, From a point of exegesis, you win, but my heart tells me God can’t be that cruel; so I have to temper exegesis with my philosophical beliefs about God. “. Scripture says what it says. Many just choose to not accept it.
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110%er [3684]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
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Jun 18, 2025, 10:49 AM
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What scripture is is not even clear. I assume you believe it to be the King James Version of the Bible. Others who claim to believe Jesus died and rose believe that the KJV is tainted and may take the same passage and believe it says something different.
Where is Jesus or the Holy Spirit in all this? I don’t see much divine guidance, just a bunch of opinions and you know what they say about those.
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National Champion [7287]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 18, 2025, 11:27 AM
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I am actually not. fan of the KJV. For English versions, my choice is LSB and ESV. There are minor differences in text between ancient manuscripts, but nothing that changes doctrine. Despite what anyone says, there is no perfect language to language translations of anything, but most of our English translations of Scripture do not in any way change doctrine, though they may not fully convey the nuance of the original languages.
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Letterman [155]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
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Jun 18, 2025, 11:30 AM
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How do you know they don’t change the original intended doctrine?
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National Champion [7287]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
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Jun 18, 2025, 11:34 AM
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We have not found ancient manuscripts yet that differ in areas that would change doctrine.
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Letterman [155]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
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Jun 18, 2025, 1:04 PM
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> Despite what anyone says, there is no perfect language to language translations of anything
How do you know it wasn't lost in translation?
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National Champion [7287]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 18, 2025, 1:30 PM
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I have professors who are true experts in Hebrew and Professors who are true experts in Greek that can clarify any questions that may arise. I also have limited study of the two languages but am far from an expert.
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Letterman [155]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 18, 2025, 1:43 PM
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That’s fair enough.
My main concern would be, how do you know what changed during thr decades of oral transmission before they were written down at all?
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National Champion [7287]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 18, 2025, 2:38 PM
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No proof. I have faith that God inspired the Scriptures. I also have faith He preserved The Scriptures. As I said, no proof.
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110%er [3684]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 18, 2025, 3:05 PM
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So you have proof until you don’t, then it’s just faith.
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National Champion [7287]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 18, 2025, 8:42 PM
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I have been very consistent on that fact.
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Letterman [155]
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110%er [3684]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 18, 2025, 11:35 AM
[ in reply to Re: Is it just me or is it telling that ] |
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Fair enough but that was besides the point.
You are Calvinist. Do you believe someone can be a Christian and not be a Calvinist?
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National Champion [7287]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
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Jun 18, 2025, 11:58 AM
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I definitely believe the doctrine of Calvinism is a secondary doctrine, not a doctrine essential for salvation.
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110%er [3684]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 18, 2025, 3:04 PM
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So you don’t have to actually know the truth, just part of it?
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National Champion [7287]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 18, 2025, 9:53 PM
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You have to know the truth of the essential elements of salvation. You don't have to understand Ezekiel. Ezekiel is truth.
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110%er [3684]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 19, 2025, 6:12 PM
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“Ezekiel is truth”
How do you know that, or what specifically about Ezekiel gives you faith that it is truth?
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National Champion [7287]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 19, 2025, 9:21 PM
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It's in the Bible. You could ask your preacher why Ezekiel is true, but then you would have to reveal your double life to him.
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Letterman [155]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
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Jun 19, 2025, 9:27 PM
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Is this a baptist preacher? I’m sure he can relate to the double life then lol
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110%er [3684]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 20, 2025, 8:30 AM
[ in reply to Re: Is it just me or is it telling that ] |
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“Double life”
That’s hilarious. My views and opinions are well known to those closest to me and if the pastor ever wants to discuss them I will have no problem stating the truth about Christianity and the Bible.
By the way, “it’s in the Bible” is not an answer. You are nothing but a sheep. You believe what you were told to believe. You are not a truth seeker.
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National Champion [7287]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 20, 2025, 10:28 PM
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I find it hard to believe you go to a fundamental church and the people there know you believe the kind of crap you post on here. From some of the things you have posted on here about your pastor, he would kick you out if he knew your true beliefs and your open spreading of heretical doctrine. Your wife makes you go to church. I am sure you act like a good sheep while you are there.
The Bible says it. That settles it.
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Letterman [155]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
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Jun 21, 2025, 11:00 PM
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> I am sure you act like a good sheep while you are there.
> The Bible says it. That settles it.
The irony 🤣
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110%er [3684]
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National Champion [7287]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 22, 2025, 6:37 PM
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I bet you are not "honest about The Bible" with your pastor.
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110%er [3684]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
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Jun 22, 2025, 7:33 PM
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I’m asking what crap I post on here specifically?
I simply acknowledge reality.
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National Champion [7287]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 22, 2025, 7:38 PM
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Would you show this thread to your pastor?
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110%er [3684]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
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Jun 22, 2025, 8:42 PM
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If we were in a discussion about this topic I would be open with him absolutely.
A lot of people sitting in churches do not fall into the evangelical Bible beating mindset that you do.
That doesn’t mean we go pick fights with those people.
This a forum for having these types of discussions. You should ask your self why you are here if it bothers you.
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National Champion [7287]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 23, 2025, 6:45 PM
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It does not bother me. I just find it Hilarious that you attend a fundamental church with a fundamental pastor yet you disagree with almost everything he stands for.
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110%er [3684]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 24, 2025, 10:41 AM
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Going to church for some people is not just about doctrine and theology and demeaning people with the Bible.
Some of us actually try and live out the words of Jesus…you know about loving your neighbor and taking care of those in need?
That seems to be lost on you.
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National Champion [7287]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 24, 2025, 1:20 PM
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According to other posts of yours, How do you know they were the words of Jesus? You don’t believe The Bible is inspired or accurate.
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110%er [3684]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 24, 2025, 5:29 PM
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I’m sure the Bible is accurate in plenty of areas but it has been PROVEN to be wrong and contradictory in many areas.
Divine? Certainly not.
Accurate in some parts? Certainly.
The Jesus seminar did a study among scholars many years ago and determined that Jesus never said a lot of what the gospels report him saying, but some of it he did.
The sermon on the mount for example is pretty solid. Ironically it was not a focal point of Paul.
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National Champion [7287]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 24, 2025, 6:21 PM
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The Jesus seminar was a bunch of ultra liberals. This is a post I bet you wouldn't show your pastor. Not one of your supposed contradictions can't be quite easily reconciled.
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Letterman [155]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
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Jun 24, 2025, 7:22 PM
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>Not one of your supposed contradictions can't be quite easily reconciled.
Well, when you start with premise, pretty much anything can be reconciled. I totally agree that any supposed contradictions can be reconciled in that sense.
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National Champion [7287]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 24, 2025, 7:38 PM
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Because there are no contradictions, only supposed ones.
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Letterman [155]
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ok***
Jun 24, 2025, 8:48 PM
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Asst Coach [845]
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Letterman [155]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
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Jun 27, 2025, 8:25 AM
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It just seems obvious to me that different authors spanning millennia would occasionally contradict. That seems infinitely more likely than it being some divinely inspired single idea.
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110%er [3684]
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National Champion [7287]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 25, 2025, 5:11 PM
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A lot. A theological liberal believes The Bible is not inspired. Bet your pastor disagrees with them and you on this.
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Letterman [155]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 25, 2025, 9:33 PM
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What is the evidence that it is?
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110%er [3684]
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National Champion [7287]
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Oculus Spirit [43202]
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Atheist like Stalin and Mao didn't like to fight
Jun 18, 2025, 3:10 PM
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neither do the blue haired beta lefties like antifa
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [103180]
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Tee hee, hee, hee.***
Jun 20, 2025, 12:10 PM
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Game Changer [1732]
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Re: Atheist like Stalin and Mao didn't like to fight
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Jun 22, 2025, 7:38 PM
[ in reply to Atheist like Stalin and Mao didn't like to fight ] |
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I think he was talking about fighting over beliefs. He is saying religious people fight with eachother about beliefs.
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Dynasty Maker [3363]
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Well, we're humans and humans think differently about things...
Jun 24, 2025, 5:50 AM
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I can't even get agreement from my wife half the time on where we eat....
Atheists may not argue about religion or atheism with each other much. But Atheists will fight against each other in other ways. In fact, the World's largest ever, and most deadly, land war, was an Atheist Nazi regime going after an Atheist Communist regime during WW2. There was also Mao & Pol Pot later on in the 20th century, with massive slaughter. During WW2, there was Hitler Atheist regime going after and nearly exterminating the Jews. There was Stalin's Ukraine famine in the 1930's that killed millions through government action.
The body count from really awful totalitarian atheist regimes during the 20th century was unbelievably high. So, atheists are capable of incredible amount of disagreement with others, but it might just manifest itself differently....and in recent history, more deadly, than religious groups.
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110%er [3684]
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Re: Well, we're humans and humans think differently about things...
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Jun 24, 2025, 9:34 AM
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I thought Hitler was a Christian and that was the whole reason he was slaughtering millions of Jews?
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Dynasty Maker [3363]
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Re: Well, we're humans and humans think differently about things...
Jun 24, 2025, 4:56 PM
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No, Hitler saw the Jews as an inferior "race". He was focused on his warped view of biology, not religion. It didn't have anything to do with his nominal catholicism of his upbringing. Most of the Nazi heirarchy were either atheist, pagan, or just generally anti-christian.
Martin Bormann, one of Hitler's highest assistants, talked about using religion to keep the people stupid. Churches were allowed to exist, as long as they didn't make any waves. And Christian groups were generally replaced by Nazi groups. They wanted to remove all influence of the Church, whether Protestant or Catholic. And he thought that National Socialism and Christianity were incompatible.
The Nazis were an Atheist regime that tolerated Christianity. You could say the same of the Soviets.
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Letterman [155]
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Re: Well, we're humans and humans think differently about things...
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Jun 24, 2025, 5:03 PM
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>The Nazis were an Atheist regime that tolerated Christianity. You could say the same of the Soviets.
Ok but were any of their atrocities committed in the name of atheism?
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Dynasty Maker [3363]
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Re: Well, we're humans and humans think differently about things...
Jun 24, 2025, 6:20 PM
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I don't know. Perhaps some of them were, and some weren't. I haven't read all the manifestos from the Bolsheviks or from Himmler/Hitler/Goebbels, etc.
I mean, the Nazis goal was to eliminate an entire religion (or in their view, a race) from Europe. They didn't do that in the name of Jesus Christ or Muhammad or Buddha.
Stalin didn't liquidate the Kulaks in service to Jesus or Mary.
My broader point is to needlessly attack Atheists and also not elevate Atheists above anyone else. The OP implied that the Atheists generally are more agreeable or easier in dealing with each other. I wanted to point out some areas where Atheists have "dropped the ball" on this Earth.
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Dynasty Maker [3363]
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Meant to say "NOT needless attack..."***
Jun 24, 2025, 6:22 PM
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Asst Coach [845]
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Asst Coach [845]
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Re: Well, we're humans and humans think differently about things...
Jun 27, 2025, 8:55 AM
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Ehhh, I'll retract that and try to clarify. Hitler himself wasn't cool w/ traditional (at the time) Christianity, but many of the German armed forces presented as being protected by and followers of God ("God is with us").
Hitler (to "show appeal") - so, my assumption would be that the same likely held for above - and that is dastardly for sure. "The Nazi party, that Hitler was a prominent member, early on in the 20s referred to themselves as a christian organization however that pretty much just show to appeal to the common German and set to them apart from most of other socialist organizations that espoused atheism. Many other prominent Nazis would later on get involved in cultism and occultism. Even molding a sort of quasi-religious pagan like aspect into some of their SS ceremonies. However, there's no indication that Hitler, himself, was a part of those."
Weird dude.
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Game Changer [1846]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 24, 2025, 1:39 PM
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Seems rather simple to me in the way you framed the OP. Atheists have but one point, that which does not exist. What's to argue? Would they argue in which form on non-existence does "God" take?
On the other hand, "religious folks" have plenty to disagree on. Which came first? Which one is correct? who said what to whom and when? What does this mean? What does that mean? And so it goes. Endlessly.
As for the "truth"? So many, including the atheist, claim possession. I myself continue to ask questions that I know will never be answered. And yet, I keep asking. And I keep working towards it.
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Letterman [155]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
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Jun 24, 2025, 5:05 PM
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>Atheists have but one point, that which does not exist.
It's not even that, it's a lack of belief in god(s). While some atheist will assert that no god(s) exist, it's not the definition of the word.
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Asst Coach [845]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 27, 2025, 8:40 AM
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Correct - and this is often overlooked and/or misunderstood. No positive claim of non-existence, simply not convinced OF existence.
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Letterman [155]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
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Jun 27, 2025, 11:13 AM
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Correct.
I don’t see any evidence Zeus is real so I don’t believe he does. I would say im confident that he _probably_ does not based on lived experience but I can’t in good faith assert that he definitely does not.
Same thing with the christian god. Could he be real? Sure, but that contradicts a lot of the evidence.
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Orange Elite [5152]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 24, 2025, 1:53 PM
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Can’t remember a time I’ve ever “ had a fight” over theology. Some of my very best friends are Calvinists for example. I am not. We’ve had friendly discussions and no one ever walks away mad. Why? Because we consider it a second tier issue. We refuse to “fight” over things like that. I do realize some people and denominations get very dogmatic. Why? Because churches are made up of imperfect humans.
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Dynasty Maker [3363]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
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Jun 25, 2025, 12:19 AM
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Yeah same here. I've had some discussions within my own church about certain theological issues where there was some disagreements, but not over anything that's essential (IMO). I've argued with some Baptists who I'm friends with about certain things, but again not anything that I would think of as absolutely critical. I would put Calvinism vs Wesleyan Arminianism in that category. I don't agree with the Calvinists, but I don't think that's going to make them go to Hell or anything like that.
Arguments online are usually much more intense than anything in person.
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Orange Elite [5152]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
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Jun 25, 2025, 5:59 AM
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Very true about the online arguments being intense. I never engage in those. I’m Southern Baptist and have friends from various denominations. We agree on tier 1. We let tier 2 be tier 2. It really is that simple.
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National Champion [7287]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 25, 2025, 4:08 PM
[ in reply to Re: Is it just me or is it telling that ] |
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A lot of the intensity is because we interact with people online that we would not interact with in person.
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110%er [3684]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
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Jun 25, 2025, 5:12 PM
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tigerhurst gosmitty Tardawg
All three of you seemed to have the same response, that it's just human nature and believers have more to argue about.
While I would agree on both of these points, why is god, if he did indeed speak through Jesus and the Bible, not clear on his message?
Why are there points of disagreement if it was/is divine revelation?
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Dynasty Maker [3363]
TigerPulse: 96%
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 26, 2025, 2:08 AM
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Humans aren't good listeners.
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Letterman [155]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
1
Jun 26, 2025, 7:54 AM
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Which would be odd then because that implies god made us bad listeners
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Game Changer [1846]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 26, 2025, 8:36 AM
[ in reply to Re: Is it just me or is it telling that ] |
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My understanding of scripture is limited and an ongoing process, but this is where I am right now:
The message IS clear. Jesus said to love one another as I have loved you. Didn't say, except for those that don't look like you, or vote like you do, etc. etc. It's the humans that muddy the water. Hence the disagreements. A lot of times I can almost here the exasperation is Jesus' voice when he poses a question to the disciples and they just miss it. "No....that's not what I'm saying."
And then you have the entire "well, what about this verse?" crowd. And I appreciate that. I makes me think of something I may have missed or never considered. One of the reason I scroll through this forum. I can always read the Bible and come across something in a different way or a sermon that lays it out differently than I ever thought about.
To me that's not a bone of contention, that's the beauty of it.
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Letterman [155]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
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Jun 26, 2025, 8:53 AM
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Listen, I hear you, but this is the part that baffles me:
>A lot of times I can almost here the exasperation is Jesus' voice when he poses a question to the disciples and they just miss it. "No....that's not what I'm saying."
Ok but this is Jesus who is supposedly God right? How could he be exasperated when he A) created us exactly this way B) knew exactly how we'd respond?
Surely he could deliver the message such that each of us individually could understand. It is crystal clear that is not the case given the current state of the world.
Now, I'm sure certain people in here would say, "see, calvanists were right", but that completely ignore the times in the bible where Jesus/God get frustrated and/or change their mind.
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Game Changer [1846]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 26, 2025, 9:08 AM
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I too am just as baffled. I'm not sure I'll ever get my head wrapped around the "one triune God". It's never made sense to me. And as a life long Presbyterian, don't get me started on predestination. I can't explain it. Maybe one day I'll get it.
Someone once said to me that I was a good Christian because I go to church. My reply was, "No, I go to church because I'm not."
I Just keep trying to keep the mind open.
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National Champion [7287]
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42
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 26, 2025, 8:29 PM
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Anyone who says they understand The triune Godhead is lying.
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Letterman [155]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 27, 2025, 11:13 AM
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Probably because it’s nonsensical
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National Champion [7287]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 26, 2025, 8:33 PM
[ in reply to Re: Is it just me or is it telling that ] |
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Jesus was fully human. He willingly limited Himself by His humanity. He had the ability to be omniscient but willingly chose not to be. When He said only The Father knows the day and hour of His return, He made it obvious that as a man, His omniscience was limited.
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Letterman [155]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 26, 2025, 8:42 PM
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ok but it says god changed his mind or had regrets too
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National Champion [7287]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 26, 2025, 9:50 PM
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It's called anthropomorphism. God did not change His mind. It is a figurative way He relates to men.
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Letterman [155]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 26, 2025, 9:53 PM
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of course it is, it never means what it says when it contradicts.
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National Champion [7287]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 26, 2025, 11:05 PM
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It doesn't contradict. It is a form of communication.
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Letterman [155]
TigerPulse: 97%
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begging the question***
Jun 27, 2025, 8:25 AM
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Orange Elite [5152]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 26, 2025, 9:27 PM
[ in reply to Re: Is it just me or is it telling that ] |
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I mentioned first tier vs second tier issues. You asked why God is not clear leaving room for debate. I would say that on the first tier issues God is very clear. There’s no room for misinterpretation on scriptures teaching on salvation. With intention it’s meant for a child to be able to understand.
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Letterman [155]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
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Jun 26, 2025, 9:50 PM
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I mean, different denominations disagree on faith vs works, infant baptism, or eternal security. Those sound like first tier issues to me.
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Orange Elite [5152]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 27, 2025, 5:34 AM
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To me the first tier issue is what Jesus taught about the path to eternal life. As individuals we must make a personal decision to accept the grace that Jesus offered through his sacrificial death and resurrection to life. We are all free to follow him or reject him. Scripture says He is the way, the truth , and the life. We can not be prayed into heaven by others , can not be baptized into heaven, can not do enough good works , etc. It’s a personsl decision to repent, turn, and follow. To me it doesn’t matter much after that how a denomination chooses to worship after that if we agree on that simple truth. That’s first tier to me.
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Letterman [155]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
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Jun 27, 2025, 8:27 AM
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I hear you, but I think people also disagree on exactly what the path to eternal life through Jesus entails.
I'm just saying, I don't agree that "There’s no room for misinterpretation on scriptures teaching on salvation."
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Orange Elite [5152]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 27, 2025, 12:27 PM
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Jesus laid out a pretty clear path. That’s all I’m saying. People can spin it but His words are pretty clear to me.
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Letterman [155]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 27, 2025, 12:43 PM
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You might be right, i’ve just personally seen people argue over those very things.
I agree that humans, including myself, can mess up simple instructions
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Orange Elite [5152]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 27, 2025, 12:46 PM
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You are correct that humans argue over those things. But again, Jesus made it extremely clear. He even calls our deeds/ works nothing but filthy rags. People will argue and are certainly free to reject what Jesus said and who he claims to be. But they have to work really hard to confuse what he said.
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Letterman [155]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 27, 2025, 12:48 PM
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Agree to disagree
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Orange Elite [5152]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 27, 2025, 2:13 PM
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Fair enough but don’t disagree with me. Tell me what Jesus said that you disagree with? I’m not debating but just sincerely curious.
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Letterman [155]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 27, 2025, 3:07 PM
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Well that’s the thing, it’s not clear to me exactly what the historical Jesus said and what was put in his lips.
Who knows what he said vs what was attributed to him
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Orange Elite [5152]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 27, 2025, 3:38 PM
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Oh ok. In that case it comes down to your personal trust in biblical accuracy. I’m afraid I can’t help you with that one.
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Letterman [155]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 27, 2025, 3:56 PM
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Yeah no worries.
It’s not my personal trust though, there is clear evidence that at least some of his words were added later, it’s not like im just deciding not to believe something.
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Orange Elite [5152]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 27, 2025, 3:59 PM
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All good here as well. Have a great weekend.
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Letterman [155]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Same!***
Jun 27, 2025, 4:09 PM
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110%er [3684]
TigerPulse: 80%
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 27, 2025, 5:21 PM
[ in reply to Re: Is it just me or is it telling that ] |
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That’s just simply not true.
Could point to many many many verses that say different things about salvation.
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Orange Elite [5152]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 27, 2025, 9:26 PM
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I’m interested. Which ones?
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110%er [3684]
TigerPulse: 80%
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 27, 2025, 9:54 PM
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Mark 10:17-21
As Jesus was starting out on his way to Jerusalem, a man came running up to him, knelt down, and asked, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
18 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus asked. “Only God is truly good. 19 But to answer your question, you know the commandments: ‘You must not murder. You must not commit adultery. You must not steal. You must not testify falsely. You must not cheat anyone. Honor your father and mother.’”
20 “Teacher,” the man replied, “I’ve obeyed all these commandments since I was young.”
21 Looking at the man, Jesus felt genuine love for him. “There is still one thing you haven’t done,” he told him. “Go and sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
Matthew 25: 31-46
“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
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National Champion [7287]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 27, 2025, 10:21 PM
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Not sure what your point is. First passage is simply Jesus showing the rich young ruler that he had not kept the law because he loved money more than God. He had violated the great commandment, yet in his self righteousness, he thought he had actually kept the law.
Second passage is simply listing the works that will be demonstrated in the life of a saved person. Not saved by works, but works present in those who are saved. James elaborates on this.
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Orange Elite [5152]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 28, 2025, 5:29 AM
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Good concise answers. Correct in that in no way do those passages indicate works based salvation.
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110%er [3684]
TigerPulse: 80%
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
Jun 28, 2025, 9:13 AM
[ in reply to Re: Is it just me or is it telling that ] |
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Those passages never say anything you just said. You are adding what you already believe to them and making it say what you want.
Jesus is asked how to inherit eternal life and his response is not to have faith in him, but to keep the commandments and give to the poor.
In the second passage those who are destined for heaven and hell are separated based not on what they believe but how they’ve treated people.
Glad you brought up James who argues that it takes works not just faith.
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National Champion [7287]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
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Jun 28, 2025, 11:42 AM
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No. Jesus plainly pointed out to the rich young ruler that he could not keep the law. He did so by pointing out the ruler had broken the great commandments.
Jesus was not teaching a works based salvation. Neither does James.
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Orange Elite [5152]
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Re: Is it just me or is it telling that
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Jun 28, 2025, 11:58 AM
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Nicodemus came to Jesus with the exact same question as the rich young ruler. Jesus gave 2 completely different answers. Why? Was Jesus confused? Of course not. Nicodemus came with sincerity in seeking eternal life and Jesus simply told him he must be born again. The rich young ruler came with simply his pride in believing he kept the law but with no desire to follow Christ. Jesus looked into his hypocrisy and simply pointed it out. One came with a humble heart and found salvation. One came with pride in his works and did not find salvation. You are correct about James as well. James says faith without works is dead. So many people call on Christ on a whim or during crisis but have no real desire to follow Christ. James simply points out that works are evidence of sincere faith and works alone will never bring salvation. Have I done good works? Yes. My wife and I just did another one about an hour ago. But I’m sure glad salvation is not based on my world because I will fall short along with 109% of the people who ever breathed air on this planet.
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