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All-Time Great [90469]
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Campus Hero [13336]
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Let's see yours.***
Dec 22, 2022, 12:43 PM
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110%er [3625]
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Re: Let's see yours.***
Dec 22, 2022, 12:46 PM
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He should show them if running for office and attempting to set policy. People in those positions should be transparent. It would help people decide who they want. It protects the public in certain aspects.
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Valley Protector [1401]
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Re: Let's see yours.***
Dec 22, 2022, 2:54 PM
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Why do you think Pelosi wouldn't help pass the law against congress people trading stocks on inside information. She also blocked separating their portfolios from themselves and having a third party do the investing.
Think hard. Should be an easy answer, right? Dems want nothing to do with transparency! It would block their illegals trades!!
FJB
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All-Time Great [90469]
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I doubt anyone would care about my taxes being releasd
Dec 22, 2022, 12:47 PM
[ in reply to Let's see yours.*** ] |
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It certainly wouldn't destroy me. I had one deduction--the standard one--and paid $8K on top of what I pay every week. How about you?
Not sure how that could destroy or ruin anyone. I mean, unless they are doing something illegal or downright embarrassing.
Seems like we'd want to see that kinda stuff who are supposed to be governing us and those making laws that affect us every day.
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Oculus Spirit [43147]
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I overpaid last year by 15k or something
Dec 22, 2022, 12:49 PM
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and they sent me a check for 1 dollar and applied the rest to this years estimated taxes.
I received a check from the IRS for 1 dollar.
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110%er [3625]
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Re: I overpaid last year by 15k or something
Dec 22, 2022, 12:50 PM
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Did you cash it?
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All-Time Great [90469]
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Good luck getting a dime of that back
Dec 22, 2022, 12:53 PM
[ in reply to I overpaid last year by 15k or something ] |
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if you didn't have the same liability this year.
There is something seriously wrong with our tax code when you and I pay more in taxes than a billionaire did in 2020.
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Athletic Dir [1102]
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Re: I overpaid last year by 15k or something
Dec 22, 2022, 5:00 PM
[ in reply to I overpaid last year by 15k or something ] |
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Shoulda told them to direct $5k to an I bond while you could still get the high interest rate.
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Campus Hero [13336]
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All-Time Great [90469]
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Sure.
Dec 22, 2022, 12:57 PM
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When I get elected to a public office you can see them.
I'm sure you'd be as forthcoming with yours, right?
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Campus Hero [13336]
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I'd follow the law.***
Dec 22, 2022, 12:59 PM
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110%er [3625]
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Re: I'd follow the law.***
Dec 22, 2022, 1:04 PM
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That's a different issue. You don't see the difference of why one is a different issue?
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All-Time Great [90469]
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Valley Protector [1401]
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Orange Blooded [2058]
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Re: Let's see yours.***
Dec 23, 2022, 11:50 AM
[ in reply to Let's see yours.*** ] |
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If he's running for public office, I would agree he should hold them. We are being grifted big time by politicians (both sides).
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Top TigerNet [30611]
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All-Time Great [90469]
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All of them should be required to show their tax returns.***
Dec 22, 2022, 12:51 PM
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Top TigerNet [30611]
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Or we could just enact term limits***
Dec 22, 2022, 12:57 PM
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All-Time Great [90469]
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Both are fine***
Dec 22, 2022, 12:59 PM
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110%er [3625]
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Re: Or we could just enact term limits***
Dec 22, 2022, 1:01 PM
[ in reply to Or we could just enact term limits*** ] |
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Both, and also establish that they can't be lobbyists after being in office.
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Ultimate Tiger [34997]
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All-Time Great [90469]
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I think it'd be interesting to see where the money a
Dec 22, 2022, 1:26 PM
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SC judge is being paid, or at least how much. It may shed light on their possible decisions and motivations--the same as a POTUS or VP.
Unfortunately, None of Trump's tax returns audits were ever completed for whatever reason, so his taxes being released is the next best solution I guess.
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Ultimate Tiger [34997]
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That info is supposed to be in a federal financial...
Dec 22, 2022, 1:41 PM
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disclosure, right?
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All-Time Great [90469]
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I have no idea. Is it?
Dec 22, 2022, 1:42 PM
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If so, why is Trump so reluctant to release his taxes?
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Ultimate Tiger [34997]
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no offense, but shouldn't you already know that...
Dec 22, 2022, 1:43 PM
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if you have such a strong opinion on tax returns for transparancy-sake?
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All-Time Great [90469]
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Did you ask me a question you already knew the answer?***
Dec 22, 2022, 1:56 PM
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Ultimate Tiger [34997]
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All-Time Great [90469]
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This seems circular.
Dec 22, 2022, 2:03 PM
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If that info is well documented as you apparently stated (but did not state), why was Trump refusing to release his taxes? Wouldn't there be nothing to hide?
So you see no value in elected officials taxes being made public, because people "wouldn't understand them".
Noted.
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Ultimate Tiger [34997]
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Well, first, I didn't say I saw no value in it...
Dec 22, 2022, 2:19 PM
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the point we were originally discussing is a Congressional committee releasing his tax returns.
I think I was clear in saying that if it is to be required, then Congress can require it.
Yes, I do have a concern that most people won't be able to understand it.
As for the difference between a disclosure and a full tax return is that a tax return shows how profitable/unprofitable a business is or, for a normal person, how much they get paid.
A federal disclosure lists investments, income from parties with potential conflicts of interest, etc...
The burden really ought to be the other way around...what is in a tax return that is the "public's business" that isn't in the financial disclosures.
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Athletic Dir [1102]
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Re: This one would be fun to review ...
Dec 22, 2022, 5:08 PM
[ in reply to This one would be fun to review ... ] |
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Very sketchy website. More reliable sources say $900k to $1.2M. Then there are the official financial disclosure forms.
People is gullible.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: How would releasing people's tax returns ruin them?
Dec 22, 2022, 1:11 PM
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I have a moderately difficult tax return. I’m not even in the same universe with somebody like Donald Trump in terms of complexity. But I have a small business , little bit of investment property, some investment income, sold some property etc. The point is I’m still a nobody in complexity but 99% of the ding dongs on this board would never understand my tax return. Crap, I don’t understand it which is why I have an accountant!! Releasing Trumps tax returns or anyone one else’s will allow fools to make talking points out of things in the return that that don’t have a friggin clue about! Some if you have a dadgum W2 each year and act like that’s all there is to it. Good grief people.
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110%er [3625]
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Re: How would releasing people's tax returns ruin them?
Dec 22, 2022, 1:14 PM
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You really wouldn't want to know more about the tax returns of the people in office, all of them?
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All-Time Great [90469]
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So you have no problem with Trump paying zero tax?
Dec 22, 2022, 1:14 PM
[ in reply to Re: How would releasing people's tax returns ruin them? ] |
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And how would releasing yours, or mine, or especially elected leaders, be "embarrassing", or "harmful" as the senator from Texas hyperbolically states?
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: So you have no problem with Trump paying zero tax?
Dec 22, 2022, 1:24 PM
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Because you will not understand if!!! That’s my point. If you are an accountant you will understand most of it but the general public will not. It would be used for public spectacle to score points. In other words , people would say “look this person grossed x money and only paid x tax. People have no clue how all of that works. Now take somebody like a billionaire and let the public take a gander at it. All I can say is it would be an ignorant circus show.
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All-Time Great [90469]
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So because the general layman wouldn't understand, you feel
Dec 22, 2022, 1:33 PM
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there's no value in releasing the taxes of those who govern us?
I doubt many people understand why their car starts in the morning. Or how the electricity they use and depend on is generated. Or even where their food comes from. Should all of that be stopped to, until they do? Certainly the utility of these items are worth more than teh understanding of their mechanics.
It's the same with Trump, or any elected officials tax returns. Maybe You and I can't understand them, but tax returns are not some alien technology voodoo that is undecipherable, and are certainly explainable.
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Ultimate Tiger [34997]
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But you're kind of proving the point here...
Dec 22, 2022, 1:47 PM
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you raised the point that he (which is his business) didn't pay taxes in a given year. To do that, that means the business either didn't show a profit or had loss carry-forwards from previous years.
Do you believe a business should pay income taxes when it doesn't show a profit?
And/or do you not agree with a business being able to carry-forward loss against future year profits?
The point is that a business is an on-going entity and it's not really accurate/fair/meaningful to look at one year in a vacuum. It's a lot more complicated than that.
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All-Time Great [90469]
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Were they his personal taxes, or his business(es) taxes?***
Dec 22, 2022, 2:00 PM
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Oculus Spirit [43147]
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What's the difference?
Dec 22, 2022, 2:03 PM
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Except for a C-Corp, business profits go directly to the owners and are taxed at the owner's tax rate.
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All-Time Great [90469]
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I'd think there could be a massive difference.
Dec 22, 2022, 2:06 PM
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I have no idea how his different companies are structured, but I think that could be very important to know.
I would assume they are structured in whatever controlling and accounting method benefits him the most. Many have said he has "gone bankrupt" 6 times, but Trump has stated "its only his businesses that were bankrupt" and the he was "using the tax laws to his advantage."
Which one is it?
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: I'd think there could be a massive difference.
Dec 22, 2022, 3:13 PM
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All businesses use the tax laws to their legal advantage. Every December I sit down with my accountant and try to make myself legally poor. But we eventually pay the piper. As one poster said we can’t take a single year in a vacuum.
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Athletic Dir [1102]
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Re: I'd think there could be a massive difference.
Dec 22, 2022, 5:17 PM
[ in reply to I'd think there could be a massive difference. ] |
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It’s something like 200 LLCs. Anything they can separate, they do. Smart move when you are prone to bankruptcy.
What most knowledgeable people are looking for are clues to who has been bankrolling him since US banks washed their hands of him 25 years ago. Doubt the evidence is there. Hidden in Deutsche Bank and Bank of China records.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Re: So because the general layman wouldn't understand, you feel
Dec 22, 2022, 1:51 PM
[ in reply to So because the general layman wouldn't understand, you feel ] |
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I think we would open up a whole new can of worms and it won’t end well. However, if releasing annual returns of every single member of congress was required maybe I could get on board. That way there’s no cherry picking for political gain. I particularly would be interested in the charitable giving
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Orange Elite [5238]
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Re: So because the general layman wouldn't understand, you feel
Dec 26, 2022, 9:53 PM
[ in reply to So because the general layman wouldn't understand, you feel ] |
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How long have you been interested in Trump's tax return? Probably since it became a DNC talking point. This is why this should remain private information.
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Oculus Spirit [43147]
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Every year my accountant tells me how much money I made
Dec 22, 2022, 1:15 PM
[ in reply to Re: How would releasing people's tax returns ruin them? ] |
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and how much additional taxes I owe. The money my business makes is not cash in the bank. It's not like a paycheck. my tax rate might be like 24% or something, but I end up paying over half what is left in the bank at the end of the year in taxes. Not everything is deductible, but I have to pay it.
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Ultimate Tiger [34997]
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Congress' power to get these returns...
Dec 22, 2022, 1:18 PM
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is based in them being needed for legislative purposes. In detail, they're overseeing the law requiring IRS audits of sitting POTUS/VPOTUS returns.
There is no legitimate legislative purpose in releasing the returns and it's clearly being done for political gains.
If Congress wants to release every candidate's/office holder's returns, then it can write a law to calling for such.
Otherwise, this is an abuse of power and should be called out for what it is...liking or disliking Trump shouldn't be the justification for such actions.
Personally, I can't stand Trump...but that doesn't mean that he should have private info released by Congress. He owns a private company and the returns and financials of that company should only be released by said company.
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All-Time Great [90469]
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Do you find his, or even SCOTUS taxes being released
Dec 22, 2022, 1:24 PM
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as harmful?
I'm not arguing the political reason for them being released, the the Texas senator is simply fear mongering, and is FOS.
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Ultimate Tiger [34997]
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Yeah, maybe...
Dec 22, 2022, 1:35 PM
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depends on who one says is being harmed.
I think it's harmful to our system in general to use tax returns and IRS info like this.
Also, I doubt many people are skilled enough to really evaluate a tax return like this. I suspect people are going to take all kinds of things out of context.
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National Champion [7697]
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Re: How would releasing people's tax returns ruin them?
Dec 22, 2022, 1:30 PM
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I don't have a problem with seeing the tax returns of politicians but you'll notice all the scumbags who are so eager to release Trumps won't release their own. I'd love to see how all of these career politicians, who all make less than 200k a year, have become worth hundreds of millions. Trump is actually worth less than he was prior to getting into politics, which is almost unheard of among the ruling class. Yet these dirt bags want us to focus on HIS taxes instead of theirs? Please. Good thing they've conditioned their moronic followers to believe everything Trump is evil and that they can do no wrong.
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Associate AD [831]
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Re: How would releasing people's tax returns ruin them?
Dec 23, 2022, 11:15 AM
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I don't have a problem with seeing the tax returns of politicians but you'll notice all the scumbags who are so eager to release Trumps won't release their own. I'd love to see how all of these career politicians, who all make less than 200k a year, have become worth hundreds of millions. Trump is actually worth less than he was prior to getting into politics, which is almost unheard of among the ruling class. Yet these dirt bags want us to focus on HIS taxes instead of theirs? Please. Good thing they've conditioned their moronic followers to believe everything Trump is evil and that they can do no wrong.
Why change the subject?
Trump is worth less than what he ever claimed to be worth.
Don't you think the "moronic followers" are Trump's who believe everything he says?
What are the "scumbags" who want Trump's taxes released who do not release their own. Please be precise.
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National Champion [7697]
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Re: How would releasing people's tax returns ruin them?
Dec 14, 2018, 8:54 PM
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The thing you need to remember about all of this political theater is that isn't really about Trump. This entire thing is a warning to anyone who might ever get the bright idea to run for POTUS with the stated goal of trying to actually change the status quo or hold the bureaucratic class accountable.
The message Democrats want to get across to any successful business person out there is simple. If you try to change anything we don't want you to we will destroy you entirely. Not just politically. Not just at the ballot box. We will prosecute you for years on end, we will audit you constantly and leak anything we think may be damaging, we will come after your family, we will destroy your businesses, we will make it impossible to borrow money, we will make you a pariah in every way possible, up to and including imprisoning you, if possible.
And you can pretty much plan on getting impeached over and over for whatever made up scenario we want so that your legacy will always be tarnished, regardless of whether any of it even happened.
Now if you were a successful person would you knowingly sign up for all of that? Probably not.
If you're a Democrat you can literally get elected without actually campaigning, or even being able to speak in coherent sentences, however if you're a true non establishment Republican you can plan on the above treatment should you ever overcome limitless dark money and the resistance of the entie establishment. Good luck finding anyone worth a #### in that environment.
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All-Time Great [90469]
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Yeah, sure it is.***
Dec 22, 2022, 1:57 PM
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Oculus Spirit [43147]
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The Obama's didn't get filty rich until they got out of
Dec 22, 2022, 2:06 PM
[ in reply to Re: How would releasing people's tax returns ruin them? ] |
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office. They, like Biden, the Clintons and the Bushes, released their taxes while in office and didn't make much money. The year they got out of office their incomes exploded. They deferred income until they were out of office.
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Athletic Dir [1102]
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Re: The Obama's didn't get filty rich until they got out of
Dec 23, 2022, 4:37 AM
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Not really deferred. They wrote the books, joined the corporate boards, and did the paid speeches afterward. Things they couldn’t do while in office. Things they couldn’t do now without having been in office.
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Associate AD [831]
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Re: The Obama's didn't get filty rich until they got out of
Dec 23, 2022, 11:21 AM
[ in reply to The Obama's didn't get filty rich until they got out of ] |
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office. They, like Biden, the Clintons and the Bushes, released their taxes while in office and didn't make much money. The year they got out of office their incomes exploded. They deferred income until they were out of office.
Most of the Obama's wealth (going into office) were from his book sales. After that, he can go on the speaking circuit and make a killing. Frankly, every former President (except Carter) has done that.
I don't know how old you are, but when Ronald Reagan left office, he went on a speaking tour of Japan for which he earned $2 million (at a point when Presidents were paid $150,000 annually). It was a big controversy at the time, especially because it was Japan, which was seen as an economic rival and, of course, a lot of the population still remembered WWII.
Point being, it shouldn't have been a big deal then, it shouldn't be a big deal now.
Now using the office to enrich your wealth while you are in office... that's is a whole 'nother kettle of fish.
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TigerNet Icon [152309]
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If you're a public servant, ostensibly working for the
Dec 22, 2022, 1:57 PM
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benefit of your constituents, and being paid by those same constituents...then your financials should be publicly available. That said, Flow is correct that unless that is codified, it becomes selective witch hunting, to an extent.
In the case of Trump in particular, and Presidents in general, where there is potential concern about conflicts of interest and compromise...it absolutely should be law. The MAGA crowd that is absolutely certain and a drooling idiot like Biden is also a crime syndicate mastermind, and that Trump is nothing of the sort...well, which one has released his financials? Trump probably isn't an outright tax cheat, and I'm sure he pushes the boundaries like every other wealthy person, BUT...I bet there are some embarrassing financial ties in there to Russians and other questionable entities. There's a reason he's fought for 7 years against releasing them, and it isn't because they're "complex" or "being audited".
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All-Time Great [90469]
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I never argued or mentioned the political reasons behind it
Dec 22, 2022, 2:11 PM
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My primary reason for the post was that the Senator from Texas was FOS and hyperbolic.
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National Champion [7697]
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Re: If you're a public servant, ostensibly working for the
Dec 22, 2022, 5:29 PM
[ in reply to If you're a public servant, ostensibly working for the ] |
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If there was anything that was substantially damaging to Trump in his taxes it would have been leaked a long time ago. Surely any intelligent person would realize that.
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Associate AD [831]
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Re: If you're a public servant, ostensibly working for the
Dec 23, 2022, 11:24 AM
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If there was anything that was substantially damaging to Trump in his taxes it would have been leaked a long time ago. Surely any intelligent person would realize that.
Surely an intelligent person would realize why Trump has been suing to keep his tax returns from being released.
Surely an intelligent person would realize that a few years of returns were leaked and got a huge amount of press coverage at the time. (Though it was largely within the context of "without a complete record of returns...")
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Orange Phenom [14754]
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I'm all for mandatory releasing of tax returns so long as it
Dec 22, 2022, 2:34 PM
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is equal across the board - meaning the Presidency and all of Congress and every one that holds a political appointed position. But that ain't what is currently happening - it is being targeted to mainly one individual (Trump) while others who have just as much (if not more) influence on legislation and policy (i.e. Speaker Pelosi) refuse to release their own tax returns...
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Athletic Dir [1102]
TigerPulse: 78%
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Re: I'm all for mandatory releasing of tax returns so long as it
Dec 22, 2022, 5:26 PM
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Difference is, Trump is a crook and a traitor.
Nixon started the practice of releasing his taxes to try to prove he wasn’t a crook. Trump promised you he would release his taxes when they weren’t under audit anymore. Turns out he wasn’t under audit. Surprise, world’s biggest liar told another lie.
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National Champion [7697]
TigerPulse: 100%
42
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Re: I'm all for mandatory releasing of tax returns so long as it
Dec 22, 2022, 5:30 PM
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And if you funnel all of your money through your children or your brother or whoever how does releasing your taxes prove or disprove anything?
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Athletic Dir [1102]
TigerPulse: 78%
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Re: I'm all for mandatory releasing of tax returns so long as it
Dec 22, 2022, 7:26 PM
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The biggest revelation is that the IRS was not auditing Trump’s returns as they are required to do for every sitting president. The question is if he pressured them directly to ignore the rules or had one of his minions do it. Somebody else headed to prison over it.
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Associate AD [831]
TigerPulse: 94%
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Re: I'm all for mandatory releasing of tax returns so long as it
Dec 23, 2022, 11:26 AM
[ in reply to I'm all for mandatory releasing of tax returns so long as it ] |
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is equal across the board - meaning the Presidency and all of Congress and every one that holds a political appointed position. But that ain't what is currently happening - it is being targeted to mainly one individual (Trump) while others who have just as much (if not more) influence on legislation and policy (i.e. Speaker Pelosi) refuse to release their own tax returns...
Trump was targeted because he was the first Presidential candidate since, what, WWII, to not release his taxes. He said he would. And then he said he was not allowed (which the IRS repeated said was not the case.)
I think SCOTUS and all the congresscritters should release theirs too.
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Letterman [257]
TigerPulse: 81%
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Remember when Trump lied over and over again
Dec 22, 2022, 3:05 PM
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about releasing his tax returns? Only president in the last like 50 years to not do it. The grift continues.
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TigerNet Champion [121139]
TigerPulse: 100%
65
Posts: 77650
Joined: 2003
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Re: How would releasing people's tax returns ruin them?
Dec 22, 2022, 4:07 PM
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I would love to see Clarence Thomas' tax returns. And being they are public servants whose salaries are paid by the US tax payer, we should have that right as a guard rail against corruption. Heck, I would be in favor of the senate and congress having to show theirs as well.
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Orange Blooded [4679]
TigerPulse: 100%
37
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Re: How would releasing people's tax returns ruin them?
Dec 22, 2022, 4:11 PM
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If they are all required then fine. I bet you would see their charitable giving go up well beyond their current hypocritical level.
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Athletic Dir [1102]
TigerPulse: 78%
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Re: How would releasing people's tax returns ruin them?
Dec 22, 2022, 7:34 PM
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His wife’s “think tank” earnings have been the large majority of their joint income since he was confirmed.
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Athletic Dir [1102]
TigerPulse: 78%
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Oculus Spirit [41148]
TigerPulse: 100%
57
Posts: 23829
Joined: 2012
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in my own conspiracy theory
Dec 23, 2022, 8:01 PM
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I kinda feel like no politicians would want this to happen.
The reason being that it would show us regular folks how to game the system like they do. We all do it to an extent, but they are probably pros at gaming the system while we are on the JV squad.
Someone already mentioned how things would be taken out of context and I completely agree.
I'm conflicted on even saying this, BUT---regardless of how shady, weird, or morally wrong certain items in a tax return would seem to the general public, if they are doing it LEGALLY, it's more of a statement on the system and not the person. We all wanna make and save as much as possible and if you gotta get legally creative to do so, welp, that's on the people writing laws.
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Orange Elite [5238]
TigerPulse: 99%
38
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Re: How would releasing people's tax returns ruin them?
Dec 26, 2022, 9:47 PM
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Why is anyone concerned about someone else's tax return. Mind your own business.
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All-Time Great [90469]
TigerPulse: 100%
63
Posts: 62198
Joined: 2004
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lol***
Dec 26, 2022, 9:54 PM
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Orange Elite [5238]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: lol***
Dec 26, 2022, 10:09 PM
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I'm lol at your apparent belief that the average voters bias wouldn't prevent them from objectively assessing the tax returns of any rival party's candidate.
We know Bill Clinton spent a great deal of his Presidency traveling the world begging other world leaders for contributions to his foundation. How embarrassing for the American citizenry.
We know Joe Biden used his son Hunter as a proxy to get sweetheart deals from foreign nations and companies such as Ukraine and China.
None of this bothers you. Your bias and lack of character is on display along with your poor cognitive abilities.
Message was edited by: orangecoloredglasses®
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All-Time Great [90469]
TigerPulse: 100%
63
Posts: 62198
Joined: 2004
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You surmised a lot from a "LOL".
Dec 27, 2022, 12:36 PM
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Its amazing all the opinions that you think I have just from 'lol'.
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