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This will sound like an old f ar t, but I remember the Red
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Replies: 45  

This will sound like an old f ar t, but I remember the Red

emoji_events [31]
Jan 3, 2021, 11:22 AM

Parker, Charlie Pell, Ken Hatfield, Tommy west days. While we had a decent burst of sustained success beginning with the Bauman punch, it wasn't until Dabo put his program in place, that Clemson Football was transformed from periodic successful teams to sustained success. In the last 10 years we had a level of success that is surpassed only by Alabama, the gold standard of college football. We want to be the champs every year, but that isn't going to happen. But we have been in the hunt 6 years in a row, with 2 nattys to show for it. We're disappointed, yes, but we will take the lessons learned from this and get better. Guaranteed. We'll be in the playoffs next season, and the next. These are good days my friends, enjoy them and trust that Dabo and Brent are going to sustain them. I'll be surprised if we win it all next season, but believe that in 2 years we win it all...again....

Now turn in your hymnals to #567 and join me in singing: "Just as I am - not as a coot".....

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I vote Tommy West the worst, what say ya'll?***

[1]
Jan 3, 2021, 11:23 AM



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Re: I vote Tommy West the worst, what say ya'll?***

emoji_events [6]
Jan 3, 2021, 11:47 AM

No way! (IMO) Hatfield took a team with 3 deep pro caliber players, and in 3 years the cupboard was bare. It took many years (all the way up to and through Bowden) to get some semblance of success back, and then Dabo came in and fixed Bowden's inabilities to get us to the next level that has brought us to the great success we now enjoy. I'm not saying West was a great coach, but he didn't start with a stable filled with talent, either.

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Re: I vote Tommy West the worst, what say ya'll?***

[3]
Jan 3, 2021, 12:06 PM

I truly believe that if they had left Coach Ford stay another 10 years. We would have won at least 1 more national title. When he left we were in good shape and poised for better things.

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Re: I vote Tommy West the worst, what say ya'll?***


Jan 3, 2021, 1:43 PM

Danny could have helped with just a few words of support for Hatfield .

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Re: I vote Tommy West the worst, what say ya'll?***

[1]
Jan 4, 2021, 8:49 AM

I don't much blame him for staying quiet. In fact, it may have been in his separation agreement that he was not to have contact with anyone at the university, but this is speculation. Hatfield appeared to be clueless, IMO. I remember seeing him walking around the sidelines with one sheet of paper, constantly looking at it as if to ask, where are the magic words and plays on this page that will make this be all better, but there were no words there. He was a very nice man, but he certainly didn't do anything inspirational for our program. In fact, when he left, the talent level, as well as the morale, were so low it took years and several coaches to get us out of the quagmire we had sunken into. JMO, of course, and many don't see it my way.

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Agree on Hatfield. There was loads of talent when he

[1]
Jan 3, 2021, 12:51 PM

got there and by the time he left, there was very little. Unfortunately, West was not the guy to dig us out of that hole.

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I know this won't be a popular opinion, but here goes ...

emoji_events [5]
Jan 3, 2021, 1:11 PM

I think Hatfield was a good coach who was a TERRIBLE FIT at Clemson. He was extremely successful at a high level before coming to Clemson. In addition to a proven track record, he was hired because of his squeaky clean image. He never really bonded with the Clemson community. I believe a huge part of the problem Hatfield faced, all the way around, was the disaterous way Ford's departure was handled. That fiasco set Clemson football back 2 decades, and there were only perhaps a handful of big-name coaches in America that could have sustained recruiting through that period, and Hatfield was not one of those guys. Still, to his credit, Hatfield left Clemson with a 70% winning %, 2 bowl wins in 4 years, and an 8-3 record in his final season. Bottom line, Hatfield was hired for what he was, and we got exectly that. I don't blame him.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Re: I know this won't be a popular opinion, but here goes ...

[1]
Jan 3, 2021, 1:15 PM

Good call on Hatfield. He seemed like a nice man, but wasn't a fit. I remember folks talking about him having lost control of the locker room and big donors withholding contributions until he was gone.

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Re: I know this won't be a popular opinion, but here goes ...

[2]
Jan 3, 2021, 2:02 PM

Correct. That was my impression at the time and still is.

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Re: I know this won't be a popular opinion, but here goes ...


Jan 4, 2021, 8:55 AM

He won with the plethora of talent Danny left him with. When Hatfield left, the talent was used up and gone, and so were the outstanding winning records. It's almost a shame that he won with Danny's talent (though I certainly want us to win all our games), because it makes Hatfield appear to have been much better than he really was. He was a nice man, though.

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Re: I know this won't be a popular opinion, but here goes ...


Jan 4, 2021, 8:55 AM

Good take.

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"It is not part of a true culture to tame tigers any more than it is to make sheep ferocious."
--Henry David Thoreau


The good old Ford probation years when I attended ...

[1]
Jan 3, 2021, 6:20 PM

34 games, 30 wins, 2 losses and 2 ties from 1981-83. Strong years and better talent than this year's team (but not more talent than 2016, 2017 and 2018). With a top quality QB in 2017, a three-peat was not outside the realm of the possible.

The teams in the Ford years were much physically stronger (especially upper bodies in steroid era) tougher, and slower than today's teams. Different era and rule book. The Ford teams were mounting a comeback with 10 wins per year from 1987-90, but then probation returned, Ford was out, and Hatfield IMHO disintegrated team work ethic, toughness, recruiting and morale.

I remember the beating talented WVA QB Major Harris took vs. Clemson in the 1989 Gator Bowl (andf Mrs. Harris sobbing "don't kill my boy" through the game.) Every series there was a hit equal to what TL16 received from Shaun Wade, often from 250lb MLB Levon Kirkland. Different rules. Great hits. No penalties.

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Re: The good old Ford probation years when I attended ...


Jan 4, 2021, 8:58 AM

Those were the days!

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Hootie Ingram was the least effective Clemson coach ever!

[1]
Jan 3, 2021, 12:19 PM

Those were absolutely terrible years. At least Tommy West had winning seasons and bowl games.

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Re: Hootie Ingram was the least effective Clemson coach ever!

[2]
Jan 3, 2021, 12:27 PM

Never understood why they hired Hootie. Awful coach with a play not to lose football philosophy only he would lose. A bonehead offensively with no imagination

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Re: Hootie Ingram was the least effective Clemson coach ever!


Jan 4, 2021, 9:00 AM

Sounds like you knew the guy. He was a terrible coach. Period! End of story!!!

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Re: I vote Tommy West the worst, what say ya'll?***

[2]
Jan 3, 2021, 12:43 PM

I would have to say Hootie by far the worst

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Re: I vote Tommy West the worst, what say ya'll?***


Jan 4, 2021, 9:00 AM

He, indeed, was terrible. The man couldn't motivate a fish to a worm.

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Re: I vote Tommy West the worst, what say ya'll?***

[1]
Jan 4, 2021, 8:58 AM

I vote for Hootie Ingram.

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Tiger Band 70-74


Re: I vote Tommy West the worst, what say ya'll?***


Jan 4, 2021, 9:01 AM

Yep!

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If you like old school bad@ss you are a Danny Ford fan !

[4]
Jan 3, 2021, 11:27 AM

I loved it !!

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Re: This will sound like an old f ar t, but I remember the Red

emoji_events [6]
Jan 3, 2021, 11:38 AM

Friday hurt, but these are good days.

Enjoy the ride

Go Tigers

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Great post

[4]
Jan 3, 2021, 11:41 AM

I agree 100%!!

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Re: This will sound like an old f ar t, but I remember the Red

[4]
Jan 3, 2021, 11:47 AM

Hear! Hear! Well said by a fellow old fart. Dabo, coaches, and players deserve our appreciation
for this and past seasons. GO TIGERS!

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Re: This will sound like an old f ar t, but I remember the Red

emoji_events [5]
Jan 3, 2021, 11:52 AM

I, too, am classified as an old f-ar-t, though I'm only a '72 grad. We have seen some lean years, and these times we now are enjoying are like dreams come true for those of us who suffered through the years mentioned here. I was on the team during some very lean years, indeed.

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We are an elite football program in every sense of the word.

[4]
Jan 3, 2021, 11:57 AM

Yes, losing the way we did sucks, but anybody who has any serious complaints and can't fully appreciate where we are right now as a program (and looking forward) is either spoiled or delusional, or both.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Re: We are an elite football program in every sense of the word.

[1]
Jan 3, 2021, 12:02 PM

I vote Hatfield. Separated himself from the Clemson family and did not recruit well. Tommy West was a very likeable guy but just was not a good head coach. Bowden was a lot like Kirby Smart, had the talent but didn't know what to do with it. He also liked to put himself on a pedestal.

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Agree with Bowden being like Smart but one thing

[1]
Jan 3, 2021, 12:56 PM

I'll really give Bowden credit for was his vision. I truly believe if he hadn't layed the ground work in taking Clemson to the next level, Dabo couldn't have had the success he has

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Re: We are an elite football program in every sense of the word.


Jan 4, 2021, 9:00 AM

Exactly. One look at the last couple of recruiting classes says it all.

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"It is not part of a true culture to tame tigers any more than it is to make sheep ferocious."
--Henry David Thoreau


Well said.....I also remember the "Clemsoning" days....

[4]
Jan 3, 2021, 12:12 PM

And they were not great....

Hats off to everyone associated with this year's team for an excellent season amidst the worst of conditions. Winners all.......

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Well I am an old f ar t and I remember

[1]
Jan 3, 2021, 12:27 PM

walking 5 miles barefoot through the snow uphill both ways to get to school. OK I jest.

I also remember the latter part of Frank Howard and the ACC's 800 rule. For about 3 years in a row we went 6-4 and everyone of the losses were to schools that had recruits that couldn't play in the ACC because they couldn't score 800 on the SAT. 800 was not that high of a score, but high school coaches weren't really encouraging good grades either.

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Re: Well I am an old f ar t and I remember

[1]
Jan 3, 2021, 12:50 PM

800 back then was not a bad score. Didn't they dumb down the SAT's several years back. 800 back then might be more like a 1000+ today.

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1. Dabo ...2.Ford ...3.Pell ...4.Hatfield ...5.Bowden ...

[1]
Jan 3, 2021, 12:39 PM

6.Parker ...7.West ...8.Ingram

I remember Frank Howard quite well too, but his career was so long and spanned a couple of decades, so I did not include him here.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Re: 1. Dabo ...2.Ford ...3.Pell ...4.Hatfield ...5.Bowden ...

[1]
Jan 3, 2021, 12:46 PM

Got to rank Frank H after Ford

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Re: 1. Dabo ...2.Ford ...3.Pell ...4.Hatfield ...5.Bowden ...

[2]
Jan 3, 2021, 12:50 PM

I probably would have, just had to cut it off somewhere.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Problem with Howard coaching so long is that he might be on

[2]
Jan 3, 2021, 12:55 PM

both the list for good and the list of bad coaches! There was certainly an ebb and flow to our success over his tenure. His 165-118-12 record says a lot.......in both directions!

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It's deceptive. Clemson won the ACC 65-67 with overall

[1]
Jan 3, 2021, 1:27 PM

records of 5-5, 6-4, and 6-4. No bowl game appearances. We won the ACC in 58 and went to the Sugar Bowl with an 8-2 record, finishing 8-3. Over most of his career, success was defined very differently than it is now. The gaudy W/L record was not required. Of course, due to academic requirements and geographical/regional factors, it was probably more difficult for Clemson to compete on a national level in Howard's time. All of that makes it tough to compare.

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
- H. L. Mencken


Re: Problem with Howard coaching so long is that he might be on

[2]
Jan 3, 2021, 4:20 PM

In years past I have gone through Frank Howard's record with a fine tooth comb.My personal opinion is that he got everything he could out of his team's that he could in each if his 3 decades.He more than deserved to get into the Hall of Fame .The man is the absolute bedrock of Clemson football. More than 150 wins ; 7 teams in the final top 20 ; 6 bowl trips and 3 bowl wins and favored in none of those bowls.He gave Clemson its first Orange Bowl win and its first final top 10 ranking in 1950.What got Frank was the 60s when as you said the ACC required a higher SAT score than other schools.I think Franks even said that if he had realized how tough recruiting would be in the 60s because of the ACC rule he might very well have retired in 1960.With all that stadium expansion between 58 and 60 it seems Clemson was expecting a very good decade in the 60s but ended up getting kneecapped by the SAT rule. As a kid in the mid 70s I remember older fans talking about how good Clemson "used "to be but I was pretty young and I had no idea of how far back they were talking about.It all sounded a little mysterious but neat to think that Clemson had this great past history they were trying to recreate .When things finally turned around in 77 and 78 it made it all that much sweeter !

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Hatfailed was the worst not Tommy West


Jan 3, 2021, 1:25 PM

The dirt was falling into that Hatfailed dug deep hole that Tommy was standing in. Lucky he didn't get buried alive and lived to tell the tale.

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Red Parker was coach when I attended my first Clemson game


Jan 3, 2021, 2:43 PM

We are in rarified air even with our loss. With the 1981 National Championship we had to have a bunch of people ahead of us lose to even be in the conversation. Now we start the year out in the top 3 each year.

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"The one who thinks we can and the one who thinks we can't are both right! Which one are you, son? Which one are you, son?"


Unless something happens along the way, we all become old farts.

[2]
Jan 3, 2021, 3:44 PM

I think your post is correct. Not until Dabo’s tenure have we have consistently performed at a high level multiple seasons in a row. Danny had many good years, but even he would lose a couple to some teams they should have beat. Duke and NC State come to mind the most.

Thing I hate the most about the program under Danny and the way that ended was that we were right there with Fla State. That should have been the rivalry of the 90’s. But Danny got let go, Hatfield never was going to live up to expectations and then the program sank under West.

My biggest beef of the whole Tommy era was than WAKE FOREST went to the ACC Championship game before Clemson. For as far as he helped bring the program back, that should never have happened. I can’t get past that part.

All in all, there is no comparison to what we have as fans now. Enjoy it.


Message was edited by: NorthwestPurple®


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Today started off good - I woke up!

[1]
Jan 3, 2021, 5:28 PM

Go Tigers!

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Re: Today started off good - I woke up!

[1]
Jan 3, 2021, 5:38 PM

Red Parker was actually right on the verge.

His problem was getting stabbed by Bill McClellan & Charlie Pell. Red wasn't willing to go all in $$$$$.


Hootie & Hatfield tie for the worst.

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Yep, Red got screwed.


Jan 3, 2021, 5:55 PM

Pell with the help of Mclellan stabbed him in the back.

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Very, very happy- very, very proud.


Re: Today started off good - I woke up!

[1]
Jan 3, 2021, 6:42 PM

Red went 3, 6, and 2 in 1976. He recruited well that year.

Stuckey came in. Dwight Clark was in the neighborhood along with Steve Fuller.

Butler was in town. Bubba and Randy were coming on.

Pell took us to the GB, and we got hammered by Pitt. But we beat the Mutts in Athens that year.

Danny took the team and made real men out of them on the field.

We did did well until Max Lennon showed up. We wandered in the desert for 25 years after Max $crewed the pooch.

Dabo is a winner. He hates to get beat. He will evaluate and correct the weak areas.

OL needs help - has all season. Can't run the football, can't win big games.

Bill had the vision to build the upper decks at DV. Once Dr. Edwards retired, McClellan
was probably too powerful. JMHO.

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