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All-In [30593]
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I love the rationale of tnet...
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Mar 9, 2015, 10:06 AM
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The same people who are now vehemently slamming posters for questioning our basketball program, and the way we have finished...
are the same ones who say... "If you thought we had a chance to be a tournament team when we were sitting 6-4 in the ACC and on the bubble, you are nuts. You're delusional to think we ever had a chance."
How can you take both of those positions?
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TigerNet Champion [117416]
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the safe place to be if you're a brownell supporter thru &
Mar 9, 2015, 10:09 AM
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thru is that clemson finished better than they were expected.
if you allow yourself to see clemson had even a realistic shot at the dance[pundits were wrong and they often are] then you might have to say this team choked coming down the stretch & therefore coach brad did a poor job bringing them home.
does that help? was that helpful?
you have to manage the middle or the 8-10 spot so to speak.
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All-In [30593]
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oh... i get it... I just don't see how someone can
Mar 9, 2015, 10:13 AM
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look at the fact that we were 6-4 in the ACC
on a 4 game winning streak
holding wins over LSU, Ark, @ Pitt, @ NCSU
remaining winnable games vs. ND, GT, VT, NCSU... and @ Miami and GT
and look at a 2-6 finish and consider that ANYTHING but disappointing
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TigerNet Champion [117416]
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dood, NO ONE expected clemson to win 8 ACC games this
Mar 9, 2015, 10:17 AM
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year! only a moran cares HOW brownlee got them!
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CU Medallion [18450]
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Re: dood, NO ONE expected clemson to win 8 ACC games this
Mar 9, 2015, 6:21 PM
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No one expected the ACC to be so wretched at basketball this season either.
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110%er [3821]
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dear, dear yorkie....
Mar 9, 2015, 10:51 AM
[ in reply to the safe place to be if you're a brownell supporter thru & ] |
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the numbskulls who thought this team was ever NCAA worthy simply didn't appreciate the holes that were there. Holes of talent to some degree, yes, but mostly just bad play.
But were they ever as bad as 13th or 14th in the ACC - not really. They could beat Wake and BC systematically, yes on talent alone. Then they were good enough to split with a fair number of other teams. For this team to fall to 13 or 14th just because they lost to KJ was simply in the little minds of the ACC media who fawn over North Carolina schools and New Jersey-like schools. Brad kept 'em about where they could get to - 8th or 9th.
To highlight how inconsistent this team was, one only needs to look at defense. Brownell's teams have never been bad defensively, yet there were several games this year where Clemson got steamrolled by teams that aren't great offensive teams: UVA, Ga Tech, and USuCk come to mind. In both cases Clemson simply got handed it to them by the dozen - we couldn't stop them from scoring. That's the hallmark not of a bad coach, but of a bad "team", a team that doesn't play well together nor pay attention to and invest in the details. It also probably highlights that last year's team wasn't as good defensively as it appeared - it's probably just that KJ and Nnoko were good at cleaning up the mess down in the paint that some other player let get by them.
Check out the c/p that TigrJim has posted about UVA's success - it talks about how the Hoos aren't very good offensively and win on defense. In particular it notes how their defense is predicated on stopping scoring in the paint. In other words,
1) the vast, vast majority of college teams cannot beat you consistently by shooting the jump shot, and
2) consistently good college teams will get to the paint and to the line, consistently.
Last year's Clemson team was very good at getting to the paint and to the line - this year, not so much. In fact if I remember correctly we went like 3 games and shot only 4 Free Throws.
That ain't coaching, that's execution.
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All-In [30593]
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that's grade A eloquent horsesh!t
Mar 9, 2015, 11:00 AM
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Are you praising him, defending him, or asking for answers in confusion?
You can't praise him for getting us to the 6-4, good wins, in NCAAT hunt... then turn around after a 2-6 finish, where we had very winnable games, and say "well, it is where we should be".
which is it?
Was the 6-4 ACC start, with wins over Ark, LSU, @ Pitt and @ NCSU just blind luck?
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All-In [10883]
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Hopefully it was blind luck for
Mar 9, 2015, 12:32 PM
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Gardner-Webb and Winthrop...lol
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110%er [3821]
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of the teams you've mentioned, exactly who excites you?
Mar 9, 2015, 6:11 PM
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Pitt - not a tournament team.
FSU - not a tournament team.
NC State - not a tournament team.
LSU - decent team in a bad conference - really bad.
Arkansas - fluke win at home against a team that had us down 6 with a minute to go. No more of those victories around this year.
If this is the list of teams that you think made us NCAA tournament worthy
then they must have upped the Tournament to 128 teams.
Notably there's no Dukes, UVA's, UNC's, or Notre Dame's on your "big win" list. Heck, there ain't even a Miami or a Louisville.
Face it - this was never a NCAA team as there's basically nothing but wannabes on your list.
Course now, you ought to know wannabes pretty darn good....
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CU Medallion [19353]
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Re: I love the rationale of tnet...
Mar 9, 2015, 10:10 AM
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Legend [16629]
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Re: I love the rationale of tnet...***
Mar 9, 2015, 10:11 AM
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All-TigerNet [10402]
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Re: I love the rationale of tnet...
Mar 9, 2015, 10:36 AM
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But they predicted us to finish 13th or so. That's what I'm sick of hearing!
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Ring of Honor [22078]
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Dr. Spock has passed. There is no logic to it.***
Mar 9, 2015, 10:43 AM
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All-In [28802]
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I also love the folks who are vehemently against Brownell...
Mar 9, 2015, 11:24 AM
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who act like anyone who defends the basketball program is a personal supporter of Brownell. Some of these same folks were complaining about the team when we were 6-4 in the ACC and still had a chance at the NCAAs. And, of course, they never would've admitted we had a chance at the NCAAs until that chance was gone and they could use that fact to criticize Brownell.
But it might be that some of us are pleasantly surprised when the bball team does well because we haven't had much success historically. This year, especially, because KJ McDaniel left, was one of those years when expectations should've been low. Finishing the season the way we finished was disappointing, and obviously losing to some subpar teams was bad, but I still think the team was a little better than I thought they would be this year.
Message was edited by: camcgee®
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All-In [30593]
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I am a fan of BB and I am pulling for him... but I don't get
Mar 9, 2015, 11:31 AM
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the double standard
He loses to Winthrop and GW -- then gets us back into tourney discussion going 6-4 in the ACC with some big wins -- We have winnable games left and a shot to stay in the discussion
People actually defend this by saying we were not as good as we seemed at the mid point of the season... Daheyull? That's almost seems like more of an indictment against him
it's stoopidly pathetic
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Devotee [330]
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Re: I am a fan of BB and I am pulling for him... but I don't get
Mar 9, 2015, 11:54 AM
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The only delusion here on tnet is the crowd who can't take criticism.
Of course I wanted to go to the big dance...and I'm not really saying you're a idiot for believing we had a chance. I'm simply saying what made you really think we were? This isn't a good basketball team and would get slaughtered in the tourny.
My problem here on tnet is the attack crowd. God forbid someone call a spade a spade....The fact that I can't question our direction without getting attacked is ridiculous.
I support the football and baseball programs 110%...I know that baseball takes some heat, but JL is a good coach and there is actual proof to back that up....But BB hasn't done anything. The program looks dormant right now. If you don't think we're moving backwards I'm not sure what you're looking at.
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All-In [30593]
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where have I defended Brownell? Can you link that?
Mar 9, 2015, 11:57 AM
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I think he's a good coach, and I like him.. but he hasn't gotten it done, period.
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Devotee [330]
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Re: where have I defended Brownell? Can you link that?
Mar 9, 2015, 12:02 PM
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You along with tons of others have.
Glad to see you admit he hasn't gotten it done. most on here would never do that.
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CU Medallion [19353]
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Re: where have I defended Brownell? Can you link that?
Mar 9, 2015, 12:04 PM
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So no link?
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Devotee [330]
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Re: where have I defended Brownell? Can you link that?
Mar 9, 2015, 12:05 PM
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No gif?
Wow....surprised.
Get a life 117....step away from the computer.
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Hey man, a troll has got to troll***
Mar 9, 2015, 6:18 PM
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Orange Blooded [2537]
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All-In [30593]
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Devotee [330]
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Re: I have prior to this year... but surely you aren't stupid
Mar 9, 2015, 12:08 PM
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You basically are defending him with this thread.
Plus you consistently say you like the guy.....so........
I do find it funny when you call someone stupid tho, mr.big12
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All-In [30593]
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can you not read.. this thread was about the double standard
Mar 9, 2015, 12:11 PM
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of people defending BB while at the same time calling our 6-4 ACC start with wins over Ark, LSU, Pitt, and NCSU "a mirage"...
you can't do both
my point is that we were in position to make a run, and fell apart... and that has to fall somewhere.
but thanks for removing the doubt about your idiocy
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Devotee [330]
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Re: can you not read.. this thread was about the double standard
Mar 9, 2015, 12:13 PM
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Says the moron who really truly believed we were in positron to make a run....
Listen to yourself. Smh.
York..... we were never a tourny team. Not for one second.
We're done here....smh
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CU Medallion [19353]
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Re: can you not read.. this thread was about the double standard
Mar 9, 2015, 12:16 PM
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..... Except for that whole little fact that if we would have finished strong we would have been in a position to make the tournament per people that do that kinda thing for a living.
Also "Says the moron who really truly believed we were in positron to make a run" you should refrain from accusing others of "attacking".
HTH have a nice day.
York is still waiting on his link.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [105932]
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CU Medallion [19353]
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CU Medallion [19353]
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Re: I am a fan of BB and I am pulling for him... but I don't get
Mar 9, 2015, 12:00 PM
[ in reply to Re: I am a fan of BB and I am pulling for him... but I don't get ] |
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"JL is a good coach and there is actual proof to back that up....But BB hasn't done anything. The program looks dormant right now."
Please stick with facts. This is the problem you arent calling a "spade a spade" HTH
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Devotee [330]
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Re: I am a fan of BB and I am pulling for him... but I don't get
Mar 9, 2015, 12:03 PM
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Grown ups are talking 117.... run along now and find your next gif
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CU Medallion [19353]
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Re: I am a fan of BB and I am pulling for him... but I don't get
Mar 9, 2015, 12:09 PM
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For someone who just said they call a spade a spade they seem to really struggle with that. Typical behavior of a child.
Maybe you can improve that quality on your next screen name.
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TigerNet Icon [152639]
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.... says the dude who called out fans yesterday,
Mar 9, 2015, 12:14 PM
[ in reply to Re: I am a fan of BB and I am pulling for him... but I don't get ] |
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without provocation.
I'm sure you are a good guy, but I would refrain from attacking others in a hostile OP, especially if you are going to turn around and complain when you get criticized.
PS: I still haven't given you a TD.
Message was edited by: Francis Marion®
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TigerNet Icon [152639]
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I think you should focus on being a...
Mar 9, 2015, 11:42 AM
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football fan for now. Worrying about multiple periphery sports is obviously more than you can handle at this point.
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CU Medallion [18450]
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Re: I love the rationale of tnet...
Mar 9, 2015, 6:19 PM
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If you want an honest answer its because even at 6-4 our RPI was nowhere near good enough for the tournament. And, though we beat NC State and Syracuse decisively, we were absolutely destroyed in some of our losses and had lost to 4 very bad basketball teams (SCar, Winthrop, GWebb, and Rutgers). While "anything can happen," this is not the resume of a team that was going to have sustained success. RPI wise, our best wins were against SEC teams - which should tell you all you need to know about our season. Wish I had been wrong.
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CU Medallion [18162]
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I'm not sure he was really looking for an honest answer***
Mar 9, 2015, 6:46 PM
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CU Guru [1099]
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Re: I love the rationale of tnet...
Mar 9, 2015, 8:04 PM
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We were not an NCAA team this year obviously. Relying too much on youth to lead us. We played really poor at the beginning, really well for a stretch in the middle, and really poor down the stretch. Again -it is a testament to this team that we were ever mentioned for the tourney; part of it was good play, part of it was schedule.
Our weaknesses were exposed by better teams and our freshman hit a wall.
Next year will be the first time that BB has had his leading scorer return. In fact, his 2nd leading scorer also returns (Granrham). We will be able to tell a lot by what happens next year. I would expect to be in the hunt for a bid next year and be a top 5 seed in 2 years. Just a hunch.
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