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Tiger Cub [12]
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Stop with FSU Recruiting! (year by year rankings comparison)
Nov 3, 2013, 12:53 PM
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The talent at FSU is not considerably different now than it has been the last 10 years. Maybe the biggest difference is they are being coached better. Here are rivals class rankings for FSU, Clemson, and Oregon since 2002. I know rivals rankings aren't everything, but it is a good starting point.
2002: FSU:4 Clemson:22 Oregon:49
2003: FSU:21 Clemson:67 Oregon:26
2004: FSU:4 Clemson:61 Oregon:17
2005: FSU:2 Clemson:17 Oregon:28
2006: FSU:3 Clemson:16 Oregon:49
2007: FSU:21 Clemson:16 Oregon:11
2008: FSU:9 Clemson:12 Oregon:19
2009: FSU:7 Clemson:37 Oregon:32
2010: FSU:10 Clemson:19 Oregon:13
2011: FSU:2 Clemson:8 Oregon:9
2012: FSU:6 Clemson:14 Oregon:16
2013: FSU:10 Clemson:14 Oregon:22
FSU had the 4,2,3 classes in 2002-2004. We beat FSU in 2005, 2006, AND 2007. FSU is very good this year there is no doubt, but if anything our classes have improved compared to them. I'm just tired of making excuses when in reality we came out and played D- minus football, spotted them 17 points and then want to make recruiting excuses. We had no focus and no toughness that night and when you do that against a great team they are going to kick your A**.
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Associate AD [821]
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Re: Stop with FSU Recruiting! (year by year rankings comparison)
Nov 3, 2013, 1:09 PM
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The only years that really matter is the last 4. They had an average ranking of 7. Ours was 14. They had better players than we had, period.
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Tiger Cub [12]
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Re: Stop with FSU Recruiting! (year by year rankings comparison)
Nov 3, 2013, 1:22 PM
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Better yeah, I don't know about 37 points better than ours on our home field though.
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Legend [15467]
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Re: Stop with FSU Recruiting! (year by year rankings comparison)
Nov 3, 2013, 1:37 PM
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I don't think they are 37 points better than us, but that night was the perfect storm. I doubt we could have played worse, and I doubt they could have had a better night. It's over now, though, but they do have more depth of better players. Your own data bares that out.
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Orange Blooded [4836]
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they took care of home turf last night on nat tv a big game
Nov 3, 2013, 1:09 PM
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for them.
and we didn't when we had the chance.
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Legend [15467]
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Re: they took care of home turf last night on nat tv a big game
Nov 3, 2013, 1:42 PM
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You are right. It happens, and while they came into our house and whipped us, we also went into theirs when DF was coaching and whipped them pretty soundly. It sometimes happens. We just have to let our whipping teach us a good lesson about preparation and purpose and not repeat the errors of our ways.
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CU Guru [1346]
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Rankings are more yadda yadda than substance
Nov 3, 2013, 1:50 PM
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I agree. Can anyone describe the difference between a 2013 rank of 10 for FSU and a 14 for us?? A lot of it has to do with how many scholarships you have available and how many players are available for position openings. Overall FSU does very well year after year. Hard to debate that. But without comparing recruits position by position and head to head, it's just busywork.
We just need to keep our trend of being in the top 20 with some 8s 9s or 10s every so often. Then it's a matter of developing the non-5 stars to compete with the 5 stars. Getting the top of any given recruiting class is a competition we will never win against many SEC schools or FSU and Miami in FL (or maybe against FSU in the Southeast in general).
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All-TigerNet [13031]
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You can be more talented and not get better results. Saying
Nov 3, 2013, 1:57 PM
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that FSU is more talented does not mean that they also have to be a better football team. For all of their talent from 2001-2008 they were severely hampered by poor coaching and poor QB play (also largely a result of poor coaching). Not that they have a great QB and good coaching they are playing up to their talent level, not below it.
FSU is more talented. You show it yourself right there in the post. They pulled in better classes in each of the last 5 years which is the pool of players that both teams will be playing with right now.
Just as there can be a huge difference b/t a top 5 team and a top 15 team, there can also be a huge difference b/t talent brought in by a school that's among the very best in the country at recruiting and one that is 1-2 tiers below that in recruiting. How many more 5 star guys have that pulled in than us in the last 4 years?
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CU Guru [1197]
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I hate to say this but
Nov 3, 2013, 2:15 PM
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TB is not an elite QB. That doesn't mean he's the problem. Just making a point.
Is Deshaun Watson elite?
He's rated right there with J Winston. I think he's provided a huge spark, confidence boost for FSU.
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Walk-On [102]
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Re: I hate to say this but
Nov 3, 2013, 2:25 PM
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Agree 100%
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CU Guru [1346]
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Define elite QB. Winning? Breaking team and league
Nov 3, 2013, 2:43 PM
[ in reply to I hate to say this but ] |
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records? Or some numerical calculation (stats)?
Boyd may not be the best QB in the nation, but he certainly stacks up well WHEN he is playing well. Labeling him elite is about as useless to me as dwelling on 'star' rankings for high school kids. That's just me, maybe.
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All-TigerNet [13031]
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There's nothing useless about star ratings if you understand
Nov 3, 2013, 2:46 PM
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them and their limitations. Star ratings for individual players may not be accurate, but when you average them all up over a period of several years they give a very good indication of the overall talent level on a team. The most talented teams in the country are usually the ones that raked in the best recruiting classes over the previous 4-5 years.
Now good and bad coaching can heavily influence the performance of these guys on the field, but that isn't necessarily the same thing as talent.
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CU Guru [1346]
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We agree about individual ratings and that the goal
Nov 3, 2013, 3:01 PM
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should be seeking out the best you can get for any position - or at least I think we agree on that.
But whether someone is a 4 or 5 star and leaves after 3 or 4 years of college ball living up to that rating is a big challenge. Nuk was only a 4 star for example but he was a 5 star college player and is so far a top star in the NFL. Even Marcus Mariota was not that highly rated (3 star maybe??) coming out of high school but is burning it up on Oregon's offense with a lot of talent around to help him out.
So spending much time worrying about whether our #14 ranked class will give us better or worse results than FSU's #10 ranked class is pretty much a waste of time for me.
We especially agree that coaching is everything. Not just strategy during game play but making those who have the talent like Nuk or Mariota into true stars.
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CU Guru [1197]
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Re: We agree about individual ratings and that the goal
Nov 3, 2013, 3:19 PM
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Well that was kind of my point. Fisher had Ponder for 3 years and he didn't overwhelm but was a first round pick.
The current QB is making Fisher look good. That QB was highly rated. Forget about stars, he could produce.
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CU Guru [1346]
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I guess your point about "elite" was confusing.
Nov 3, 2013, 3:38 PM
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Boyd may or may not be elite by any one person's opinion, but he has certainly racked up some numbers and records at Clemson. The only complaint I have is how he has played in some clutch situations as well as lower pressure situations.
It's all about winning and doing what it takes to win and whether or not the team is packed with the highest rating recruiting classes seems pointless. To me. Likewise whether any one player is 'elite' or not. We still have a ways to go to be able to say we do everything it takes to win (or not be fully embarrassed - you know, Clemsoning). And we should always push to get better talent wherever we can. But we have stepped up recently in most all areas for sure.
Just find and develop some better linemen and I'll be happy!! (humor)
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Oculus Spirit [93567]
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I don't want to dump on a player.
Nov 3, 2013, 2:46 PM
[ in reply to I hate to say this but ] |
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But I'll tell you this, Chad is gonna be the hottest thing going next year.
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110%er [6095]
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FSU game is over. Beat ga tech, beat coots, go to BCS.***
Nov 3, 2013, 3:51 PM
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All-TigerNet [14090]
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Remember this is tnet, don't bring facts into the...
Nov 3, 2013, 4:00 PM
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conversation, it just confuses all the football neophytes and football ignorant people.
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