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Top TigerNet [30876]
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Thinking we must leave the ACC to survive is folly
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Oct 18, 2024, 8:46 AM
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The writing is on the wall. There will be 4 major college football conferences. ACC Big12 B1G and SEC. Those four will survive and the playoff format this year will remain in place for a decade or more. All the big media corps, NCAA, and the conferences are working to fix the money situation. It may take some time and multiple lawsuits but it will hash out and Clemson will be just fine in the ACC.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [102348]
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Who says Clemson has to leave the ACC to survive?
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Oct 18, 2024, 8:58 AM
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I don't recall anyone saying that they sky is falling.
This isn't about survival it's about Clemson receiving according to Clemson's earnings. We are and have been the ACC's cash cow.
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Top TigerNet [30876]
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Re: Who says Clemson has to leave the ACC to survive?
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Oct 18, 2024, 9:06 AM
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Almost every post about this topic states Clemson football will never be able to compete if we stay in the ACC. Not sure how you haven't seen that...but that logic is what my op is referring to.
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Asst Coach [873]
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My question is, How do we compete
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Oct 18, 2024, 10:31 AM
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with 30 to 50 million less revenue? The ACC has already accepted secondary status. We will not be ok,
if stay in the ACC. We must get to a conference with equal or close to equal revenue, otherwise, we will become irrelevant.
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Trainer [-93]
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Re: My question is, How do we compete
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Oct 18, 2024, 12:10 PM
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The ACC is trash. How does anyone get excited about playing the scrubs we play every week? I can’t stand it. The SEC makes the most sense but I’d be happy in the Big 10/12. The Georgia game was an awesome atmosphere. I’d love to play more teams like that rather than WF, UVA, Syracuse, etc.
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Solid Orange [1325]
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Re: My question is, How do we compete
Oct 18, 2024, 1:30 PM
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We have to update our roster for the SEC or BIG.
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TigerNet Elite [69777]
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I don't think so...
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Oct 18, 2024, 9:05 AM
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largely because that is very little, if anything, the ACC can do at this point to eliminate the significant revenue gap that currently exists; a gap that continues to grow larger with each passing year.
Another consideration is whether the relationship between Clemson and the ACC has been irreparably harmed to the point where there is no going back. I am of the opinion that the leadership within the ACC is incredibly weak and they are far more concerned about self-preservation rather than what is in the best interest of their member institutions.
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Top TigerNet [30876]
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Re: I don't think so...
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Oct 18, 2024, 9:09 AM
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The Clemson and FSU lawsuits have created the necessary public and private discussions that will drive fair and competitive revenue sharing based on national markets and viewership. It's happening right now.
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CU Medallion [20883]
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Yes ... any moment now
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Oct 18, 2024, 9:30 AM
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The SEC, Bama, Texa, UGA, Texas A&M, the B1G, Ohio State, Michigan, Southern Cal, ESPN, Fox Sports and more will stand down and restrict TV revenue flow to the SEC and B1G athletic programs so Clemson and FSU can successfully compete in the football marketplace.
Likewise, Apple will send is designs to Huawei and Nvidia will allow Intel to compete.
The revenue gap will be significant and non-P2 schools will diminish in stature as a result of less financial holdings to compensate athletes.
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Top TigerNet [30876]
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Re: Yes ... any moment now
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Oct 18, 2024, 9:35 AM
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Well that's a ridiculous post. I know you're being sarcastic but...wow...that's just over the top.
The SEC, B10, and all those colleges have nothing to do with contract negotiations between the ACC, Big12, NCAA, and media corps. They simply just set the market value. Suggesting they "stand down" was in no way implied by my post.
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Paw Master [17427]
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Re: Yes ... any moment now
Oct 18, 2024, 1:08 PM
[ in reply to Yes ... any moment now ] |
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Terrible analogy. Nvidia needs no help. They’re laughing all the way to the bank. In fact, my MacBook Pro has an nvidia gpu. Nvidia doesn’t make phones. They make computer components. Intel isn’t hurting either. Apple products had intel processors until this year. Apple finally made on that is almost as good as the best intel processor. It’s kinda like saying Pepsi needs to give Budweiser their recipe so come can compete. Lol
Message was edited by: OneJedi®
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TigerNet Elite [69777]
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No one is doing anything right now except talking...
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Oct 18, 2024, 9:36 AM
[ in reply to Re: I don't think so... ] |
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The bottom line is the television networks control the revenue and those networks dictate what constitutes fair and competitive revenue sharing based on, among other things, national markets and viewership. Right now, the networks think the SEC and the BIG are worth significantly more than the other conferences you mentioned, and until the other leagues prove them wrong, that's not likely to change any time in the foreseeable future, and certainly not in the near term.
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Game Changer [1830]
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Re: I don't think so...
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Oct 18, 2024, 11:03 AM
[ in reply to I don't think so... ] |
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I think ACC viewership could be better, but it is not a total disaster....yet.
From the top 25 most viewed college football games so far this season (as of this week)
Representation in those games by conference.
1. SEC: 28
2. Big Ten: 12
3. ACC: 6
4. Big 12: 2
Obivously the SEC and Big10 have a alot more people watching. Plenty of people are still watching ACC teams...its not a goliath share, but....
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Paw Master [17427]
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Re: I don't think so...
Oct 18, 2024, 1:11 PM
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Out of twenty five games the sec had 28?! A. Maze. Ing.
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1st Rounder [619]
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Re: I don't think so...
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Oct 18, 2024, 12:20 PM
[ in reply to I don't think so... ] |
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I think laying this at the feet of the ACC misses the point. It is not the conference itself that is to blame, but the member institutions. Viewers never watch ACC team A vs B, they watch Clemson vs FSU or Wake vs Duke. As long as the majority of the conference members are content with being irrelevant, our revenue is going to be limited by that. If the remainder of the conference decided they were going to compete, their stature and viewership would increase which would lead to revenue increase.
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CU Medallion [20853]
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The ACC is in a position to significantly narrow the revenue gap,
Oct 18, 2024, 1:08 PM
[ in reply to I don't think so... ] |
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but only for about half the programs, not all. We could accomplish this by taking the tier step today internally by putting those programs with the larger stadiums and budgets together in one division, and the remaining in another, and schedule the regular season accordingly. Such a move would create additional value by producing more attractive games for the casual football fan more often, at our best venues, value that the upper division programs would keep and split among themselves. This won't get us all the way, but it could bridge enough of a gap to maintain a status quo of sorts. We wouldn't necessarily have to schedule every division team during the season - maybe 6 games with 2 versus the other division.
We could take an additional step of expanding to 9 league games, where the 9th game would be a home game for the upper division with the lower division always traveling for this. Put the larger stadiums and atmospheres to better use here for the benefit of all. This would essentially replace the App State or in-state FCS game for us with an ACC 2nd division program (Wake, Duke, UVA, Stanford, etc.).
We could attract a West Va from the Big XII to flip with this model as they would be an upper tier program, giving us 9 teams in the upper. Add maybe a UConn, Memphis, USF or something that would contribute in other sports with their football program though in the 2nd division to even things out.
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Top TigerNet [29853]
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Respectfully disagree.
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Oct 18, 2024, 9:13 AM
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The writing it on the wall very clearly, IMHO, that there will be a reorganization with a new "Super Tier" that consists of 40-60 teams (I would guess 48) which come from the SEC and B1G.
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Top TigerNet [30876]
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Re: Respectfully disagree.
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Oct 18, 2024, 9:24 AM
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Agree to disagree. I do think that is a viable outcome, and one that many want to see happen. I just don't see the BIG12 and ACC dissolving. They are both continuing to grow and again the FSU and Clemson lawsuits have started negotiations. Furthermore, the new playoff system in place will hold the four conferences together for many years to come. We are seeing the full effects of NIL. The era of dynasty teams is over.
That being said ..it'd be nice if FSU could help themselves out a bit and play better football. Looks like they may have turned a corner so a strong finish to the year would be a big plus with contract negotiations
Message was edited by: RunJumpCatch®
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All-In [10774]
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Re: Respectfully disagree.
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Oct 18, 2024, 9:39 AM
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You're right the Big12 and ACC won't dissolve, but they will be relegated to a second tier level of college football, far behind in revenue to whatever becomes of the SEC and Big super conference TV deals. I don't think Clemson can win the arm's race that is college football right now and I'd rather see us play in a league of similar teams, and only play those teams, where there is at least an attempt at parity and student-athlete integrity.
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Hall of Famer [9009]
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Continuing to grow? With what? Some garbage non-football programs.
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Oct 18, 2024, 9:42 AM
[ in reply to Re: Respectfully disagree. ] |
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That math dont math my guy. If you think the massive revue gap doesnt matter, just give it a few more years. Unless you give the trash programs literally 0 dollars and funnel their complete shares to clemson and fsu, you cant even get close to closing the gap. And media negotiations? Why on earth would espn want to pay MORE? What leverage does the ACC have? They arnt even a good basketball conference anymore! Its a dying league, to suggest otherwise is the only folly here.
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Orange Immortal [62602]
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Re: Thinking we must leave the ACC to survive is folly
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Oct 18, 2024, 10:16 AM
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Wow. Props. Good discussion. I tend to agree the conferences have to stay intact for all the "other" sports. But I see the counter opinion that at some point, football will have to break away and form their own league. I'd guess a 64 team year long play-off scenario. Something where the 64 play each in separate divisions a la NFL and then have the 12-16 teams compete in the playoffs.
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Ring of Honor [21022]
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LOL. The delusions of these ACC lovers.
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Oct 18, 2024, 10:39 AM
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Everything is going to be okay if you sit and do nothing. Hey, I have some ocean front property in Arizona for you.
We HAVE to GET OUT of this conference.
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Top TigerNet [30876]
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Re: LOL. The delusions of these ACC lovers.
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Oct 18, 2024, 10:47 AM
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The only one delusional here is you if you think Clemson is sitting back and doing nothing. They are investing millions of dollars just in legal fees to figure out how to better position themselves for a strong financial future. There is progress being made. Negotiations are happening. If the price is right at the end of the day, who cares what conference we play in? Historically the ACC leadership has failed. That's being brought to light. Changes are happening. Nothing happens fast. I don't love the ACC. I just don't think we're doomed if we don't leave. Clemson will survive and get their fair share at the end of this debacle.
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Ring of Honor [21022]
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Re: LOL. The delusions of these ACC lovers.
Oct 18, 2024, 10:55 AM
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Thanks for the clarification. In reality the ACC and all existing conferences could be doomed if the super league concept comes to life. We will see!
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Top TigerNet [30876]
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Re: LOL. The delusions of these ACC lovers.
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Oct 18, 2024, 11:20 AM
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Very true. And it could happen that way. Like you said we shall see.
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Game Changer [1714]
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Re: Thinking we must leave the ACC to survive is folly
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Oct 18, 2024, 11:10 AM
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I honestly don't see your logic in this. Since, IMHO, this entire conference realignment thing is a proxy fight between ESPN and Fox. The biggest markets in that fight are the SEC and the B1G. The other two conferences in that are "oh yeah, and we have these others games to fill the timeslots". Notre Dame doesn't count because they were allowed to score their own deal. And the NCAA let that happen.
Why do you think the Pac12 disintegrated? Because outside of Oregon and sometimes Wash and Wash St. nobody gives a rip about college football on the west coast. And it's hard to find a market for that at 10:30pm on the east coast.
That being said, the ACC had been undermined and delusional for too many years under the leadership of Swofford. The programs allowed into the conference were purely for basketball. And while basketball was a money maker during the winter and spring, the really large amounts are made in the fall. Clemson and at the time FSU were the cash cows. There have been moments from others, Louisville (don't try to convince me that wasn't a basketball pick) and VA Tech (in the dumper since Beamer).
If Clemson wants to stay in the game of big time college football, they have no choice but to seek greener pastures.
(the farm references was purely unintentional)
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Oculus Spirit [44289]
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Re: Thinking we must leave the ACC to survive is folly
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Oct 18, 2024, 11:45 AM
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Wish I agreed. Especially with the predicament we are in with the GOR. The P2 will continue to push for 80% and leave the others behind. Seems fairly obvious after they are openly meeting together now. They want or will get more of the slots in the final 12, and if the truth be known they probably deserve it. I have mentioned in other threads that the ACC and other like conferences will be relegated to a 2nd tier, but they will not come out and formally say that. They will just make it harder for those on the outside to win it with fewer teams being able to get into the final 12. A break from the NCAA and a named commissioner with a ruling body is needed fairly quick imo.
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Ring of Honor [22708]
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Re: Thinking we must leave the ACC to survive is folly
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Oct 18, 2024, 11:56 AM
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That sounds nice but basically staying the same as we are now with the Big 4 conferences is probably not realistic. There is too much money at play, and too many external parties involved for there not to be major changes at some point.
I think what you are describing is the short term plan in preparation for the longer term reorganization of college football as we know it. It basically is designed to keep everyone where they are until they figure out what they want this to look like down the road.
NIL and Portal were just the beginning of the long term plan to professionalize college sports. We are still in the early innings of this game.
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Walk-On [116]
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Re: Thinking we must leave the ACC to survive is folly
Oct 18, 2024, 12:07 PM
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Totally agree!
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All-Pro [791]
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Re: Thinking we must leave the ACC to survive is folly
Oct 18, 2024, 3:30 PM
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The ACC has to increase demand/following for their product. Viewership and fervor for the game is where it is at.
A. It is in the plans to build several 100,000 seat stadiums and the fans will fill them.
B. The poor television viewership ratings will suddenly explode and shoot to the top of the list.
C. Fans will have football on their mind thirteen months out of the year.
D. The member institutions will strive to be the football capitol of the country churning out more NFL draftees than the other conferences.
E. Suddenly, an arms race will occur within the conference to build the best and most costly facilities than anyone else. Declare those upgraded facilities obsolete in five years and redo them all over again to stay ahead.
F. Attract the best athletes to your school but if you don't land them you hope they sign with another ACC team to make the conference better.
There you go. Clemson and FSU doesn't make a conference. All members of the ACC AND THEIR FANS have to sign on to the above. Will they is the question. The above affects the product on the field, in the stands and the amount of monies networks will pay out. The SEC and the BIG aren't going to agree to 'share the pot' with other conferences just to pull them out of a situation where those other conferences have schools and fans that don't care about football like the P2 does. It wouldn't be fair to the SEC and the BIG. Do you donate part of your paycheck to people at your work that doesn't work as hard and long as you to give equal pay.....I don't think so. Same thing here. I don't blame Clemson and FSU for wanting out to be with like peers. Both would make a great addition to the SEC.
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