|
Replies: 99
| visibility 11411
|
Gridiron Giant [15608]
TigerPulse: 99%
50
|
So some dude told me weve been in a *gradual decline* since 2020.
1
15
15
Sep 29, 2025, 8:18 AM
|
|
That’s simply not true. While not great or elite. We have been one of the most consistent winners in the country being #9 in wins since 2021.
In 2021, we fell from #3 to 14th and had 10 wins. A significant drop.
In 2022, we had 11 wins and finished 13th. A climb.
In 2023, we had 9 wins and finished 20th. A drop.
In 2024, we had 10 wins and finished 14th. A climb.
—————-
2020:
QB, QBR - Lawrence, 8th
Offense - 10th
Defense - 15th
Record, Final Ranking - 10-2, 3rd
2021:
QB, QBR - DJU, 95th
Offense - 99th
Defense - 8th
Record, Final Ranking - 10-3, 14th
2022:
QB, QBR - DJU, 54th
Offense - 48th
Defense - 28th
Record, Final Ranking - 11-3, 13th
2023:
QB, QBR - Klubnick, 69th
Offense - 52nd
Defense - 8th
Record, Final Ranking - 9-4, 20th
2024:
QB, QBR - Klubnick, 15th
Offense - 11th
Defense - 69th
Record, Final Ranking - 10-4, 14th
—————
There has been no “gradual decline” or any decline at all since since 2021. We’ve been very consistent and above average at that.
This is not to suggest I’m pumping sunshine or that I’m happy with being top 15 in rankings or top 10 in wins. That’s not good enough, however, it is not a gradual decline. That narrative just is not true.
Just the simple facts. ClemDad803 you can admit your mistake now.
|
|
|
|
 |
Tiger Spirit [9420]
TigerPulse: 98%
44
|
Youre not very smart.***
2
32
32
Sep 29, 2025, 8:21 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gridiron Giant [15608]
TigerPulse: 99%
50
|
I simply presented the facts.
2
Sep 29, 2025, 8:54 AM
|
|
What you got?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ring of Honor [22948]
TigerPulse: 87%
53
Posts: 18890
Joined: 2007
|
You simply presented stats and made them tell the story you want to tell***
1
8
8
Sep 29, 2025, 9:36 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gridiron Giant [15608]
TigerPulse: 99%
50
|
I added nothing to the stats.
4
Sep 29, 2025, 9:43 AM
|
|
They show what they show, and they don’t show a gradual decline since 2021. As far as I know, seasons are judged on wins and a final ranking. That’s it. The stats show a flat line, not a gradual decline. No additional commentary needed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ring of Honor [22948]
TigerPulse: 87%
53
Posts: 18890
Joined: 2007
|
Re: I added nothing to the stats.
1
5
5
Sep 29, 2025, 9:43 AM
|
|
You're cherry picking stats. See Pheebo's post below. You're deluional.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gridiron Giant [15608]
TigerPulse: 99%
50
|
Cherry picking?? LOL.
1
Sep 29, 2025, 9:53 AM
|
|
Are there two better numbers to define a season other than wins and final ranking? The final ranking takes into account every minutia of the season.
Even in the elite times, we scraped by a couple and lost too. That’s football. The end of season rankings account for all of it, and there is no better measurement of a season than the wins and final ranking.
Wins: 10, 11, 9, 10. Average exactly 10 wins.
Rankings: 14, 13, 20, 14. Average ranking 15.
Can’t get much more of a flat line than that, and in fact last season showed upward movement. That doesn’t represent a gradual decline.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Varsity [122]
TigerPulse: 86%
11
|
Re: I added nothing to the stats.
3
Sep 29, 2025, 8:26 PM
[ in reply to I added nothing to the stats. ] |
|
Add in your stats we play in a very week acc
I tried to add up in my head while scanning over schedules so may be off a little but pretty close
Top 25 wins
2015-2020- 21 and 3
2020-2025 - 10-9
That’s a steady decline
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1538]
TigerPulse: 100%
30
|
Re: I added nothing to the stats.
Oct 1, 2025, 8:30 PM
|
|
We better drop the narrative of the “weak ACC”, right now we are the bottom of league standings.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ultimate Tiger [35190]
TigerPulse: 100%
56
Posts: 37097
Joined: 2003
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2538]
TigerPulse: 85%
32
|
|
|
|
|
|
TigerNet Elite [72606]
TigerPulse: 100%
61
Posts: 42329
Joined: 2001
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2554]
TigerPulse: 99%
32
|
Re: I simply presented the facts.
11
11
Sep 29, 2025, 11:01 AM
[ in reply to I simply presented the facts. ] |
|
Facts that are typically used to cover up a slide especially when the ACC is so cupcake a mediocre team can look like a powerhouse. Even is Lawrences last year people were noticing that our offense looked stale and predictable. You'ld be lying to say that lots of fans were not talking about it.
The encapulate our over all win percentage into more meaning full data I did the folowing.
Since 2003 we have the highest win percentage against ranked opponents of any ACC team against ranked opponents at 41-29 for 58.6%
Considering only ranked opponents...each percentage is all games against ranked opponents that year to this week. Only one bump in there.
2018 58.6%
2019 52%
2020 47.6%
2021 47.1%
2022 50%
2023 33%
2024 16.7%
2025 0.0%
The real problem for us is when we face adversity.
We have only a 33.3% win percentage when we are considered the underdog since 2020.
Since 2022 we have not won a single game after a bye week.
Since 2020 we are 4th worst at winning after a rest.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Valley Legend [12776]
TigerPulse: 89%
47
Posts: 15208
Joined: 2004
|
he doesn't understand that stuff.***
4
Sep 29, 2025, 11:06 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [19088]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 12604
Joined: 2007
|
Re: he doesn't understand that stuff.***
1
1
Sep 29, 2025, 12:41 PM
|
|
Because it’s presented devoid of context and misrepresents reality. You’re a bunch of emotional children with absolutely zero grasp of statistics.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2554]
TigerPulse: 99%
32
|
Re: he doesn't understand that stuff.***
5
5
Sep 29, 2025, 3:51 PM
|
|
Devoid of context? The context is Clemson vs ranked teams since 2018.....what part of context do you not understand? Of course they are not perfect stats and I don't see you offering anjyoine but some unproven implication that you are brilliant at statisics, but offer no proof or your brilliance. However, everyone has been saying the we can't seem to win against anyone with a pluse and the pertentage of wins over ranked teams at a minimum imply that.
Sure the stats progressive has a smaller sample size, but wager me this. Which is harder to achieve 50% of a sample size of 100 or 50% of a sample size of 2? If I have a sample size of 2 I only need to win one game or lose one game to hit 50%. With a sample size of 100 games I actually have to win or lose 50 games.
So for your brilliance on statistics for the 2018 to 2025 To get to 58.6% Clemson had to win 17 out of 29 games to achieve that number.... For the 2023 percentage only 9 games are considered. To be better than 50% Clemson only had to win 5 out of 9 games, but instead lost 6 out of 9. Which is harder for a good program to do? To win 5 games over 3 years or 17 games over 8 years? The first only requires Clemson to win 1.667 games per year over 3 years and the other requires Clemson to maintain 2.125 wins against ranked opponents for 8 years. Just that conjectured stat alone says we've slipped.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [19088]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 12604
Joined: 2007
|
Re: he doesn't understand that stuff.***
Sep 29, 2025, 10:22 PM
|
|
Providing context would be relating those stats to other programs and establishing benchmarks. You’re reposting dreck so you can satisfy your inner child by scream “ermagod. We’re doomed”.
We’re 12th in the country in ranked wins since 2020. The start of “muh downward trend”. Not where I’d like to be but not the sky is falling garbage on here.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2554]
TigerPulse: 99%
32
|
Re: he doesn't understand that stuff.***
Sep 30, 2025, 11:40 AM
|
|
True I could do that. However the space it would take to do so would take a entire website. It not OMG the sky is falling. It just a way of pointing out that we are in a slide and have been fore a while. Everyone by the pumpers are willing to admit this. Interesting the pumpers and Trumpers have this in common. Trumpers are still out there with the mantra that he did not really lose to Biden. It's like pumper that blame refs for every loss because we must obviopusly be the better team or there is SEC bias (another fictional strawman to blame).
Anyone without their head up the butt of their fandom dreams know that Clemson's offense and now the defense also has been slipping for a while. Its a simple progression from great, to really good, to good, to okay, and now with a foot stuck between the cheeks of the bad monster.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Paw Warrior [5047]
TigerPulse: 100%
37
|
Re: he doesn't understand that stuff.***
1
Sep 30, 2025, 3:40 PM
|
|
Viz thinks with 9/10 wins a year in the ACC and first round playoff exits or great. And he’ll shove whatever stats he can muster down your throat to die on that hill.
Those kind of results were ok before we started paying what we do now for our staff, facilities, and players. Let alone how much it costs for IPTAY donors like myself to be able to go to games and park at ever increasing distances from the stadium
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [19088]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 12604
Joined: 2007
|
Re: he doesn't understand that stuff.***
Sep 30, 2025, 11:16 PM
|
|
I never said anything of the sort. But, if the results are so unsatisfactory why do you have to “park at ever increasing distances from the stadium”. Shouldn’t demand be contracting?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Paw Warrior [5047]
TigerPulse: 100%
37
|
Re: he doesn't understand that stuff.***
2
Oct 1, 2025, 8:41 AM
|
|
Combination of loss of parking to vanity projects (Tiger Walk), new buildings (softball field, enterprise lot, entrance perimeter) and corporate donors who are there for show bumping fans to the back of the line.
And you’ve constantly defended 9-10 win seasons which are the equivalent to a participation trophy in our joke of a conference
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [19119]
TigerPulse: 95%
52
Posts: 28831
Joined: 2003
|
Viz doesn't know much about the Gameday experience, he rarely ever actually
Oct 1, 2025, 4:36 PM
|
|
makes it to games...He prefers to whine on the internet instead
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [19088]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 12604
Joined: 2007
|
Re: he doesn't understand that stuff.***
Oct 1, 2025, 6:27 PM
[ in reply to Re: he doesn't understand that stuff.*** ] |
|
Why are those things in demand if the product sucks so bad and why are you still concerned.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ultimate Tiger [35190]
TigerPulse: 100%
56
Posts: 37097
Joined: 2003
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [19088]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 12604
Joined: 2007
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2554]
TigerPulse: 99%
32
|
Re: I simply presented the facts.
2
Sep 29, 2025, 4:22 PM
|
|
Yeah we might be 100% Jackwagons...porbably so. Is it worth noting that we stand 62nd in nonconference wins since 2022? Most if not all of the top 12 in ranked opponent wins are still in the top 12 when considering non-conference wins.
Again it points out how cupcake the ACC has become which makes us look like we're not struggling as much as we are. We look really good as long as we stay in our lane.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [19088]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 12604
Joined: 2007
|
Re: I simply presented the facts.
Sep 29, 2025, 10:30 PM
|
|
Probably since who you play in the non-conference schedule sort of matters. Maybe. Or I could just be stupid and not think about 2nd order effects (or god forbid anything higher).
Power rankings during the great decline have the ACC basically tied with the BIG 12 and not fair behind the BIG10. The ACC is locked alone in in 6th place in basketball. Why don’t y’all actually pay attention to the sports you claim to know so much about.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Varsity [122]
TigerPulse: 86%
11
|
Re: I simply presented the facts.
1
Sep 29, 2025, 8:31 PM
[ in reply to Re: I simply presented the facts. ] |
|
So we’ve declined since 2020. That’s what the post was about. Look up top 25 wins from 2015 -2020
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [19088]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 12604
Joined: 2007
|
Re: I simply presented the facts.
Sep 29, 2025, 10:33 PM
|
|
Yes we’re 12th in the country. Is that a decline from 1st - sure. If that was the standard please, for your own sanity, find another hobby. We took a step down in 2021. We’ve essentially plateaued there - until this season which isn’t even over. But y’all are trying to overstate how steep that drop off so you can pretend this season is part of a pattern and then freak out and offer your grand advice about how to fix the program.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tiger Spirit [9420]
TigerPulse: 98%
44
|
Brother we just got run out of our own stadium by a BAD Syracuse team
2
Sep 30, 2025, 6:50 PM
|
|
to fall to 1-3 and have look atrocious in every single game. ### are you even talking about?!!?!?
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [19088]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 12604
Joined: 2007
|
Re: Brother we just got run out of our own stadium by a BAD Syracuse team
Oct 1, 2025, 7:52 AM
|
|
Is it this season that’s the problem or “muh decline” that’s the problem. FFS.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tiger Spirit [9420]
TigerPulse: 98%
44
|
We have absolutely been in decline and this is merely the culmination.
1
Oct 1, 2025, 8:22 AM
|
|
If you cant see that, Im sorry, thats a personal problem. Doesnt change the fact. FFS.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [19088]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 12604
Joined: 2007
|
Re: We have absolutely been in decline and this is merely the culmination.
Oct 1, 2025, 6:26 PM
|
|
Since 2021, after a 6 year run that is probably one of the greatest in the history of the sport, we’ve declined. But that decline - including this abysmal start to 2025 places it 10th in the nation in total wins and 12th in ranked wins over that span. So the decline is not as severe as your getting all up in your feelings about and the idea that you’re going to get some rando to do better than the guy who already engineered one of the greatest decades college football right here is profoundly retarded. So yes, FFS. There is no point being conciliatory with people out to hurt Clemson through their raw stupidity.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tiger Spirit [9420]
TigerPulse: 98%
44
|
Bragging about wins over .500 teams. Raw stupidity indeed sir.
1
Oct 2, 2025, 9:08 AM
|
|
But by all means, carry on. Its entertaining if nothing else.
|
|
|
|
|
|
National Champion [7162]
TigerPulse: 100%
42
|
There sis still one glaring issue with YOUR stats, Just.
Sep 30, 2025, 9:18 AM
[ in reply to Re: I simply presented the facts. ] |
|
Where a team was ranked when you paly them is not the strongest link in the algorithm. It's where they finished at the end of the year. For instance, LSU's win against us looked mighty good in week 1. Not so much today. And if we finished unranked, even less impressive. So the OP isn't the only one cherry-picking stats.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [19119]
TigerPulse: 95%
52
Posts: 28831
Joined: 2003
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dynasty Maker [3156]
TigerPulse: 94%
34
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2538]
TigerPulse: 85%
32
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clemson Conqueror [11189]
TigerPulse: 100%
46
Posts: 12190
Joined: 2003
|
Well, youre blind if you think that.***
1
Sep 29, 2025, 8:22 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gridiron Giant [15608]
TigerPulse: 99%
50
|
Posting the data is not being blind.
Sep 29, 2025, 8:55 AM
|
|
We can get into subjectivity all you want, but the data is not “blind”.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Letterman [186]
TigerPulse: 46%
12
|
Re: So some dude told me weve been in a *gradual decline* since 2020.
6
6
Sep 29, 2025, 8:45 AM
|
|
We have been on a gradual decline. Take the orange tinted glasses off and wake up.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gridiron Giant [15608]
TigerPulse: 99%
50
|
My glasses are clear. I gave the data, and it clearly shows a nice
Sep 29, 2025, 8:57 AM
|
|
flat line since 2021. Been consistent as can be.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Game Changer [1697]
TigerPulse: 100%
31
|
Re: My glasses are clear. I gave the data, and it clearly shows a nice
Sep 30, 2025, 6:55 AM
|
|
You're wasting your time. These guys don't care about facts! They've made up their feelings and will do whatever they have to do to justify their position. There is none so blind as he who will not see! Go Tigers!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Head Coach [942]
TigerPulse: 98%
24
|
Re: So some dude told me weve been in a *gradual decline* since 2020.
2
Sep 29, 2025, 8:50 AM
|
|
Whatever helps you sleep at night. Also if you truly believe that this season must be incredibly difficult for you to come to grips with.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gridiron Giant [15608]
TigerPulse: 99%
50
|
If this season continues as-is it will be a huge dropoff for sure.
Sep 29, 2025, 8:58 AM
|
|
But the seasons have been basically the same since 2021.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Valley Legend [12776]
TigerPulse: 89%
47
Posts: 15208
Joined: 2004
|
SMH....LOL.............
15
15
Sep 29, 2025, 8:52 AM
|
|
I'll give you some stats and let you do the math.
2021-present
9-14 vs P4/5 teams that finish w/ 8+wins
1-8 vs OOC P4/5 teams that finish w/ 8+wins
now you do the research on the previous 5 years of 2016-2020.......
I'll wait..........
|
|
|
|
|
|
Head Coach [984]
TigerPulse: 95%
24
|
Re: SMH....LOL.............
2
Sep 29, 2025, 8:54 AM
|
|
Amen brutha. 💯
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gridiron Giant [15608]
TigerPulse: 99%
50
|
He showed the dropoff of two separate ranges.
Sep 29, 2025, 9:03 AM
|
|
But he didn’t show a dropoff since 2021.
Seems some of you dudes are confused.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Standout [236]
TigerPulse: 95%
13
|
Re: He showed the dropoff of two separate ranges.
2
Sep 29, 2025, 10:05 AM
|
|
We are not beating good teams anymore. The stats show it, the eye test shows it, recruiting rankings show it... you are blind, brother.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gridiron Giant [15608]
TigerPulse: 99%
50
|
Youre taking about the range as a whole.
Sep 29, 2025, 10:09 AM
|
|
I’m not saying we didn’t take a drop over the range following 2020, but that dropoff has remained consistent and hasn’t gradually declined.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gridiron Giant [15608]
TigerPulse: 99%
50
|
SMH
Sep 29, 2025, 8:59 AM
[ in reply to SMH....LOL............. ] |
|
Yeah we’ve fell in 2021, but there hasn’t been a “gradual decline” since then. Would you like me to plot it in crayons for you bubba?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Valley Legend [12776]
TigerPulse: 89%
47
Posts: 15208
Joined: 2004
|
I don't need a chart to show what my eyes tell me....
11
11
Sep 29, 2025, 9:15 AM
|
|
2018: Obliterated Bama in National Title game
2019: Beaten by double digits in National Title game
2020: Curb stomped in semis by Ohio State
2021: squeaked out a bowl win over a 7-6 Iowa state team
2022: won ACC (over a 5-Loss UNC team)........then Dominated by a Tennessee w/o their top 3 WRs
2023: needed a miracle finish over a 7-6 Kentucky team in a bowl
2024: squeaked in a 12-team playoff and quickly found out that we didn't belong on the same field as Texas
2025: here we are
If you need an in-depth lesson of our fall off by season feel free to read.
https://www.tigernet.com/clemson-forum/message/fall-from-elite.........signs-were-there.......just-ignored.......-37367477
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gridiron Giant [15608]
TigerPulse: 99%
50
|
Well you need eyes to see the data.
Sep 29, 2025, 9:47 AM
|
|
Rankings: 14, 13, 20, 14
Wins: 10, 11, 9, 10
These are the numbers that define the season. 50 years from now they will show the sane thing they do now - consistency.
You can get all emotionally involved if you want, but you simply cannot say these numbers show a gradual decline.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [19061]
TigerPulse: 95%
52
Posts: 27574
Joined: 2006
|
wins mean nothing in the weak assed acc
1
Sep 29, 2025, 9:55 AM
|
|
we are now struggling to get wins in the conference though now that we cant just out talent everyone.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gridiron Giant [15608]
TigerPulse: 99%
50
|
Its the same ACC.
Sep 29, 2025, 10:03 AM
|
|
Still consistent since 2021.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Valley Legend [12776]
TigerPulse: 89%
47
Posts: 15208
Joined: 2004
|
no emotion involved at all.....the game within the game is where it's at........
10
10
Sep 29, 2025, 10:04 AM
[ in reply to Well you need eyes to see the data. ] |
|
the "devil's in the details" as they say.
some of us can see it............some can't or refuse to b/c their heart strings won't let them, and that's fine. If you know what you're looking at...........as I do, you see our decline from MILES away.
you go from obliterating national powers in 2018 to eaking out a win in semis vs OSU in 2019.......to being beaten by double digits in NCG by LSU in 2019........to getting Owned by Ohio State in semis in 2020.........to missing playoffs and happy for a bowl win over a 7-6 ISU team in 2021.........to losing to EVERY SINGLE P5 OOC opponent in 2022, but clinging to an ACCCG win over a 5-loss UNC team.............to getting obliterated by DUke in the 2023 season opener that led to a 4-loss season and a miracle win over a 7-6 kentucky team in a bowl..............followed by another blowout loss by UGA in 2024.......homefield advantage is gone by getting blownout by the ville and losing another to South carolina, capping off by a dominating loss by texas after squeaking into a 12-team playoff................in 2025 everyone is so blinded by the name "LSU" that they fooled themselves into thinking we lost to an ELITE team, but we didn't..........fast forward 3 weeks later and we've lost to every P4 team we've played.
pay closer attention to "the game within the game" and you'll see it..............if you're capable of watching without your orange glasses on, which you may not be.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gridiron Giant [15608]
TigerPulse: 99%
50
|
Your emotions are not showing a gradual decline.
1
Sep 29, 2025, 10:16 AM
|
|
Wins: down, up, down, up
Rankings: down, up, down, up
Offense - down, up, down, up
Defense - up, down, up, down
There is no gradual decline in any of that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Valley Legend [12776]
TigerPulse: 89%
47
Posts: 15208
Joined: 2004
|
it's abundantly clear that you don't understand.........
7
7
Sep 29, 2025, 10:40 AM
|
|
economics, business, stocks, sports, trajectory, numbers, stats, ranges, macro/micro, etc.....
a gradual decline doesn't consist of constant down w/ no ups.......it consists of lower highs and lower lows.............just look at the margin of victory vs P4/5 teams since 2021
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [19088]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 12604
Joined: 2007
|
Re: it's abundantly clear that you don't understand.........
Sep 29, 2025, 12:42 PM
|
|
You are literally misinterpreting all those things to spam the board with your emo-soaked musings.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [19119]
TigerPulse: 95%
52
Posts: 28831
Joined: 2003
|
Did you mean to reply to Stanley's post instead? It would be more applicable***
1
Sep 29, 2025, 8:57 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Letterman [178]
TigerPulse: 87%
12
|
Re: no emotion involved at all.....the game within the game is where it's at........
Oct 1, 2025, 1:03 AM
[ in reply to no emotion involved at all.....the game within the game is where it's at........ ] |
|
Not a regular, but fantastic to see @PHEEBO detonate a fellow "Excel Fella" when needed in the FOOTBALL realm.
Sometimes you need to watch football and stop spitting analytics from the past. You're right in your head, let it die.
Anyone here cares and probably loves Clemson University as well as the football team.
"WE" because I am proud, and a graduate, could win every single game in a shutout and the glaring weaknesses are still there.
Don't be too proud - "Let love knock you on your ###. Life will kill you if you let it." - Isbell
Its just a sport we love and you got PWNED. Fun to read : )
|
|
|
|
|
|
Redshirt [97]
TigerPulse: 100%
10
|
Re: I don't need a chart to show what my eyes tell me....
Sep 30, 2025, 2:51 PM
[ in reply to I don't need a chart to show what my eyes tell me.... ] |
|
Hindsight is 20/20...4th and 16th vs LSU was the beginning of the Tigers ascent. CFP loss to LSU in NOLA was the beginning of our descent....
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dynasty Maker [3491]
TigerPulse: 94%
34
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [19063]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 18881
Joined: 2010
|
Re: So some dude told me weve been in a *gradual decline* since 2020.
2
Sep 29, 2025, 8:53 AM
|
|
If being the tallest midget in the A She She She floats your boat. Worst conference of the P4. When is Clemson going to beat an elite team again?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gridiron Giant [15608]
TigerPulse: 99%
50
|
I think you replied to the wrong post.
Sep 29, 2025, 9:01 AM
|
|
There is none of that in my post. I clearly said it hasn’t been good enough, nonetheless, we have been consistent since 2021 and there hasn’t been a gradual decline.
If this season continues as it’s been going it will be huge dropoff, but again, not gradual.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Elite [5588]
TigerPulse: 100%
38
|
Re: So some dude told me weve been in a *gradual decline* since 2020.
1
Sep 29, 2025, 9:05 AM
|
|
Your stats are good but do not tell the full story. The product thst has been put on the field is not up to standards. Take a look at the actual wins and losses independently. Take a look at our record before 2020 against the SEC and AP top 25 then after. You will see a signifacant difference. Most of those wins in the ACC, we just simply out talented the opposition. The coaching has gotten better across the ACC and with the portal, it has evened the playing field. Look up the last time we beat a P4 team at home. When was the last time we beat a ranked P4 at home. That summerizes it all.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gridiron Giant [15608]
TigerPulse: 99%
50
|
Feel free to dig into all of that, but the season is followed by a ranking.
1
Sep 29, 2025, 9:12 AM
|
|
Rankings are the final determination of a season.
Rankings since 2021: #3, #14, #13, #20, #14.
Consistent since 2021.
Wins since 2021: 10, 11, 9, 10
Again, consistent since 2021.
We can discuss subjectivity, but the objective data doesn’t supprt this notion of a “gradual decline”.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2550]
TigerPulse: 92%
32
|
Re: So some dude told me weve been in a *gradual decline* since 2020.
1
Sep 29, 2025, 9:29 AM
|
|
It's obvious you look at stats and have not watched any games over the last five years.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gridiron Giant [15608]
TigerPulse: 99%
50
|
Ive watched every game in the 4 seasons being discussed.
1
Sep 29, 2025, 10:01 AM
|
|
Been about the same every year since 2021.
10, 11, 8, and 10 in wins.
14th, 13th, 20th, and 14th in rankings.
That’s a flat 10 wins per year and a flat 15th average ranking.
I’ve seen every game. We were clearly better in 2024 than 2023, and we were better in 2022 than in 2021.
That simply is not a “gradual decline”.
This season isn’t included, but it would mean a large dropoff, not part of any gradual decline.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2550]
TigerPulse: 92%
32
|
Re: So some dude told me weve been in a *gradual decline* since 2020.
1
Sep 29, 2025, 9:33 AM
|
|
Is that you Dabo. Here are some stats for you. If Clemson doesn't get a 50-yard TD run with 1:16 to play vs. Pitt and a 57-yard FG as time expires vs. SMU, the Tigers would be 1-7 in their last 8 games vs. P4 opponents. Haven't beaten a P4 by more than 10 points since 10/19 of last year (vs. UVA). Add these stats to your sugar coated stats.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gridiron Giant [15608]
TigerPulse: 99%
50
|
Thats football. Doesnt show a *gradual decline^.
1
Sep 29, 2025, 10:06 AM
|
|
Maybe you got a little confused in your ranting?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2550]
TigerPulse: 92%
32
|
Re: Thats football. Doesnt show a *gradual decline^.
1
Sep 29, 2025, 10:43 AM
|
|
That's not ranting. Just cold hard facts. Man, I wish I had your ability to see the positive in the last five years like you do. Yes, Clemson has a better record than 80%+ of the NCAA football teams from 2020-2024. However, anyone who has kept up with college football the last 10 years can see Clemson is not the team they were from 2015-2019.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dynasty Maker [3149]
TigerPulse: 100%
34
|
Re: So some dude told me weve been in a *gradual decline* since 2020.
2
Sep 29, 2025, 9:42 AM
|
|
Whether we “declined” from 21-24 is debatable. Not debatable is we declined in 2021, didn’t correct it, and now have declined again in 2025.
And our 21-24 decline was significant. We started in 21 by failing to reach the end zone vs UGA and NC State finally beat us. 22 we got beat up vs ND and UT and lost our home win streak and the death grip we had on the coots. 23 we lost four ACC games. 24 we got routed by UGA and lost at home to Louisville and again to the stupid coots, giving them 2 of the last 3. But we won the ACC and made CFP based on the new format and automatic bids. So yea, it’s sorta been steady vs decline, the real decline started in 21.
This year is so far pointing to another decline. We currently stand at 1-3 having a comeback home win vs Troy as our only accomplishment.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gridiron Giant [15608]
TigerPulse: 99%
50
|
We dropped after 2020, but that place has remained basically the same.
Sep 29, 2025, 10:21 AM
|
|
Wins: down, up, down, up
Rankings: down, up, down, up
Offense - down, up, down, up
Defense - up, down, up, down
Coming into this season, wins, ranking, and offense all showed improvement.
Again, there has not been a gradual decline since 2021.
This year would be one large decline if it stays as-is.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dynasty Maker [3149]
TigerPulse: 100%
34
|
Re: We dropped after 2020, but that place has remained basically the same.
Sep 29, 2025, 12:09 PM
|
|
You aren’t debating my point here. I’ve granted that 21-24 could reasonably seen as one single big decline that began in 21 and perhaps we leveled off there vs a decline year after year. But any ups and downs aren’t significant for reasons stated. Not winning ACC, or winning it but losing the rivalry game. Not playing well against the few good teams we faced, etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Game Changer [1980]
TigerPulse: 99%
31
|
Re: So some dude told me weve been in a *gradual decline* since 2020.
1
Sep 29, 2025, 10:02 AM
|
|
You’re completely missing the point dude.
I’m done talking about this because you’re just completely incapable of understanding what’s being said.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gridiron Giant [15608]
TigerPulse: 99%
50
|
Im not missing the point at all, dude.
Sep 29, 2025, 10:26 AM
|
|
Wins: down, up, down, up
Rankings: down, up, down, up
Offense - down, up, down, up
Defense - up, down, up, down
Coming into this season we showed improvement in wins, rankings, and offense. That’s not a gradual decline since 2021. You were wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Game Changer [1980]
TigerPulse: 99%
31
|
Re: Im not missing the point at all, dude.
5
5
Sep 29, 2025, 11:06 AM
|
|
You have an entire comment section telling you that you’re wrong but go off queen lol.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Head Coach [928]
TigerPulse: 100%
24
|
Re: Im not missing the point at all, dude.
1
Sep 29, 2025, 2:47 PM
[ in reply to Im not missing the point at all, dude. ] |
|
Rainman again. Just C&P every comment. They all say the same thing. “Judge Wapner, 2 o’clock, Judge Wapner. Yeah. Judge Wapner, 2,2,2 o’clock. Yeah”.
You REALLY like to type and hear yourself speak, huh?
Huge decline starting in 21. Maybe it was a drop that has flatlined in average wins since then, but the difference is clear. IF you can be objective. Which you can not b
|
|
|
|
|
|
Head Coach [928]
TigerPulse: 100%
24
|
Re: Im not missing the point at all, dude.
2
Sep 29, 2025, 6:01 PM
[ in reply to Im not missing the point at all, dude. ] |
|
Rankings are subjective. Case in point: no 4 preseason ranking for Clemson. Wins are not subjective, it’s either a W or L. The way the team plays in a W or L is subjective. Fans tend to lean to one side or the other. Talent is subjective up to a point. Coaching is subjective up to a point, and even further up if the players just refuse to or are not capable of executing the coaching given them.
To use Dabo’s own words: we’ve plateaued. Did in 2020, 2021. Play calling is suspect at best. Team speed is down. (Or they just aren’t flying around like they can). Objective eyes can see both as true.
If the players are capable and aren’t, that’s on the coaching staff. That is a decline. If they simply can’t, that’s a decline, be it recruiting or development. Our recruiting rankings have been in a decline, no doubt. Those rankings are no more subjective than an end of year ranking. And way way less subjective than a preseason ranking. You seem to think that there is no way to see a decline other than W and L.
Many many companies declined after COVID. There were still leaders in each segment though. They were number 1. Or 5. Or 14. If their numbers are still down, it’s still a decline. A decline is measurable in more than W and L and a random end of year ranking given out by people watching a never happened all year kickoff return and record fg followed by a decent playing team against a prevent defense losing by double digits. Plus, you’re only arguing the “steady” part. That’s kinda stupid. Especially when it all lines up with the portal which you hate and the rampant nepotism that began in earnest at the time period given.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Athletic Dir [1146]
TigerPulse: 100%
26
|
Re: So some dude told me weve been in a *gradual decline* since 2020.
3
Sep 29, 2025, 10:03 AM
|
|
Thanks for the information Katherine. We get those interpretations from Dabo weekly now.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Game Changer [1980]
TigerPulse: 99%
31
|
Re: So some dude told me weve been in a *gradual decline* since 2020.
4
Sep 29, 2025, 10:04 AM
|
|
Also, you put all of this work into this, thinking you did something and everyone is disagreeing with you. 😂😂😂😂
|
|
|
|
|
|
TigerNet Elite [69689]
TigerPulse: 100%
61
Posts: 40241
Joined: 1998
|
I appreciate the data. And it is true that things are never as good or bad as
1
Sep 29, 2025, 10:15 AM
|
|
they look at any given time; however, it remains an unmistakable fact that we have fallen from our 4-team CFP era of greatness. Whether that is final rankings, playoff appearances, or wins against the best teams.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gridiron Giant [15608]
TigerPulse: 99%
50
|
Thats not being debated.
Sep 29, 2025, 10:18 AM
|
|
We have fallen from the years prior to 2021, but we have not seen a gradual decline since 2021.
|
|
|
|
|
|
National Champion [7102]
TigerPulse: 97%
42
|
You dont pay elite money and accept "not great or elite" results....***
1
Sep 29, 2025, 10:25 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Top TigerNet [28427]
TigerPulse: 100%
55
Posts: 16782
Joined: 2018
|
Re: So some dude told me weve been in a *gradual decline* since 2020.
Sep 29, 2025, 11:29 AM
|
|
At the end of the day, it comes down to what you are comparing. If you are comparing the last 5 years to the 5 years that preceded them, where we made the playoffs every year and played in 4 straight NC games, then of course the following 5 years have been a decline in comparison.
It doesn't means the results between '20-'24 weren't still good years, but clearly not as good as the 5 years that preceded them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [5906]
TigerPulse: 100%
39
|
Lose the orange-colored glasses already, Dude.***
1
Sep 29, 2025, 12:10 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Game Changer [1751]
TigerPulse: 97%
31
|
Re: So some dude told me weve been in a *gradual decline* since 2020.
Sep 29, 2025, 12:32 PM
|
|
Care to mention how we’re doing this year?
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [19119]
TigerPulse: 95%
52
Posts: 28831
Joined: 2003
|
logical fallacy***
1
Sep 29, 2025, 3:49 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rival Killer [2870]
TigerPulse: 99%
33
|
When is the last time we beat a real team?
1
Sep 29, 2025, 8:40 PM
|
|
Pumping our wins and stats against a weak ACC means nothing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
MVP [516]
TigerPulse: 56%
19
|
Re: So some dude told me weve been in a *gradual decline* since 2020.
Sep 29, 2025, 8:54 PM
|
|
Looks like gradual decline to me
|
|
|
|
|
|
Valley Legend [13088]
TigerPulse: 100%
47
|
Facts Are Facts
Sep 29, 2025, 9:13 PM
|
|
Most are upset that we didn't go to the playoff and win the championship every season. However, this season is a decline and a steep decline. If Clemson is a stock, hold on for dear life but I wouldn't buy anymore until Coach Swinney figures something out. He will figure something out too. Clemson has not been in a 5-year decline though and that's a fact. Being in the Top 15 consistently allows for you to build upon a foundation. Everyone can blame coaches, NIL, portal, et al. However, if Clemson has found a way to win consistently with NIL and portal being in effect for the previous 5 seasons, then I believe it is 100% on the players that are failing to put forth effort. All very correctable with some tough love coaching.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Starter [278]
TigerPulse: 88%
14
|
Re: So some dude told me weve been in a *gradual decline* since 2020.
2
Sep 29, 2025, 10:30 PM
|
|
Most of this thread is semantics. If you want to be technical, it terms of JUST wins, there has not been a decline in 2021-2024, sure. But since you ONLY want to look at wins and rankings, let’s take a look at losses:
3, 3, 4, 4, 3 (through 4 games)
Looks like a steady decline to me. It seems like 2025 will continue that decline. But, if you are insistent on looking at just wins (however dumb and useless that may be) let’s expand the data set to include 2018 and 2019 (exclude 2020 cause it’s irregular).
Wins: 15, 14, 10, 11, 9, 10
Looks like a slow, gradual decline to me. Maybe not consistently declining, but you should know that a true decline involves lower peaks and higher lows, even if that doesn’t happen in chronological order. It’s not a straight line.
|
|
|
|
|
|
MVP [531]
TigerPulse: 55%
19
|
As a friend used to say, Figures dont lie, but liars figure***
Sep 30, 2025, 5:12 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2290]
TigerPulse: 100%
32
|
I see the data you present. I interpret it to mean
Sep 30, 2025, 8:36 PM
|
|
CU fell drastically from 3rd to 14th. Yes, that is a drastic drop. We went from elite to ho-hum. Once there, we have plateaued...until this year.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Valley Protector [1478]
TigerPulse: 100%
29
|
Re: So some dude told me weve been in a *gradual decline* since 2020.
Oct 1, 2025, 8:52 AM
|
|
You can use stats to back up your belief that we arent in a gradual decline all you like. But one thing your stats dont account for is this, we have been playing in one of the easier conferences. We are 3-7 against the SEC since 2021. We are 1-4 in home openers since 2021.
If those stats dont prove a decline, I dont know what does.
|
|
|
|
|
|
1st Rounder [627]
TigerPulse: 84%
21
|
100% Ture - we have declined a ALOT***
Oct 1, 2025, 4:37 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2126]
TigerPulse: 100%
32
|
Re: So some dude told me weve been in a *gradual decline* since 2020.
Oct 1, 2025, 7:01 PM
|
|
Well said! Can't argue with the facts. Hundreds of teams and their alumni would love to have our record. Only the recent bandwagon fans are apoplectic!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Team Captain [498]
TigerPulse: 53%
18
|
Re: So some dude told me weve been in a *gradual decline* since 2020.
Oct 1, 2025, 11:24 PM
|
|
Sounds like you are coming from a “ middle of the road” perspective. Your acceptance of “average” seasons says that 3-4
Losses out of 12 games is okay. The gradual decline of Clemson Football is ominous clear. A blindfolded person or a drunk can see it.
Perhaps you are ok with 9-4 and 8-5 won-lost records. After 2 Nattys and a brilliant run from 2015-2020 Iam not, and the fan base isn’t either. A possible record of 4-8 this year is very real. Sorry, my friend, but that’s decline.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Phenom [14959]
TigerPulse: 100%
49
Posts: 24053
Joined: 2004
|
Whats the point here besides nitpicking verbage??
Oct 2, 2025, 9:18 AM
|
|
Ok so instead of a steady decline from 2020-2024 there was an immediate decline in 2021 and then no recovery to the 2015-2020 level. Great! We're still in the same place now regardless of how you want to phrase it. There's certainly been no IMPROVEMENT over the last 5 years, and now we seem to be cratering in 2025 which isn't even listed in your numbers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 99
| visibility 11411
|
|
|
50
