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Ultimate Clemson Legend [102960]
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Faith, trusting in God and trusting God is not optional.
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May 20, 2025, 7:33 AM
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Luke 17:
"5 And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.
6 And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.
7 But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat?
8 And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink?
9 Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not.
10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do."
So we have a job to do on this Earth, it's to trust and obey. If we obey with doubt we violate the oath we took when we asked Jesus to come into our hearts and save us. Just as the servant worked in the field then came and prepared supper our trust accompanies our obedience.
Does God thank us for our trust in Him? Jesus said, 'I trow not.' emphasis mine
I emboldened the word 'trow,' and translate it to modern speak. Paraphrasing verse 10: When you've obeyed do you then sit down for God to serve you? I don't think so!
Trusting God and trusting in God is not optional for we Christians. I confess, trusting God has been a challenge for faith works just opposite of credit ratings. With credit you save a few bucks while paying all your bills so that no one reports you as delinquent on paying. The bank will make a small loan to you and if you're faithful to repay those loans they will raise your credit rating.
That's opposite of how faith works. By faith we trust God with our most precious possession. We put our very souls into His hands and trust that He will preserve them. We get saved. Why then was it so difficult to trust Him with our lesser possessions and situations?
It's not optional, when I worry or stress I sin against God for I am claiming He either isn't powerful enough to handle an issue or just doesn't care. We have only two options, be sinful or trust Him.
It's HIGH TIME to confess GOD IS FAITHFUL IN ALL MATTERS AND IN ALL THINGS!
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Oculus Spirit [42141]
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nah.
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May 20, 2025, 10:23 AM
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Orange Immortal [65679]
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Re: Faith, trusting in God and trusting God is not optional.
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May 20, 2025, 10:27 PM
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I trust that God loves me, and as such I have faith that he would not create me knowing that I would spend eternity in hell. My faith is in God, the loving creator, not in what other people beilieve or don't believe about God.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [102960]
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Have you ever committed sin?
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May 21, 2025, 5:48 AM
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Is your god holy?
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110%er [3632]
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Re: Have you ever committed sin?
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May 21, 2025, 10:14 AM
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So you think people should be executed for committing petty crimes?
Is that what our justice system should look like?
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [102960]
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It's not mine, it's God's.
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May 21, 2025, 11:30 AM
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You're offered a pardon with mercy, lovingkindness and grace. The only reason a man would turn down a pardon is if he just doesn't believe the Judge is truthful. Some call that the unpardonable sin or sin against God's Holy Spirit.
You're making Him a liar and claiming His judgements are not true. I didn't create you and I didn't create myself nor any other. God created us and He has the authority to do what He will with us.
He's offering you a pardon through your trust in the blood of Christ to cover your sin, hide them from God's eyes. I urge you to accept this wonderful offer. It changed my life by changing me. God isn't finished with His work in me but He never sleeps nor does He sway His attention from me.
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Orange Immortal [65679]
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Okay, so you think God creates most of us knowing we will spend
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May 21, 2025, 12:36 PM
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eternity in hell, and you excuse that cruel, horrific behavior by making a laughably lame excuse that it is fair and just because God offers us a way out. Do you hear what you are saying? According to you:
1. God chooses to create us in a way that he knows results in most of us spending eternity in hell.
2. Since he offers us a way out, that he knows most of us won't choose, he's full of grace and love.
If he knows beforehand what we will choose, then our choice is predetermined. He's creating us so that we spend eternity in hell.
Seriously, let's say you and your wife are talking about having children, and you know for a fact that when their time on earth is done, they will spend eterinty in hell. If you go through with it and do that to them, you are a sorry, evil piece of ####, even if you claim to offer an out, which you know they won't take. Of course, that's not the way God operates at all; there's something really, really wrong with your version of God.
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110%er [3632]
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Re: It's not mine, it's God's.
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May 21, 2025, 12:57 PM
[ in reply to It's not mine, it's God's. ] |
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I think there is something wrong with someone having the authority to do what you just described.
Have you ever seen the Avengers movies?
Theres a god named Thanos that acquires the ability to wipe out half of humanity in order to save it, according to him.
One being should not have that much power, and I don’t think there is one that does.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [102960]
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Evidently most of the people on this planet agree with you.
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May 22, 2025, 8:44 AM
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You're not a problem.
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Clemson Icon [26039]
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Re: Have you ever committed sin?
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May 21, 2025, 11:35 AM
[ in reply to Re: Have you ever committed sin? ] |
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Serious question. Is there such a thing as a petty crime? Humanly, yes: if I steal a dollar from you, that is all I owe you. But does it reveal a spiritual flaw identical to one who steals $1M? Does the $1 theft not reveal spiritual identity? Does paying back the $1, or even double payback, change that identity?
Is it possible that God came to earth not to deal with the stealing, but to fix the identity?
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Orange Immortal [65679]
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Re: Have you ever committed sin?
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May 21, 2025, 12:38 PM
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How in hell does putting people in hell for eternity fix people's souls?
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Clemson Icon [26039]
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Re: Have you ever committed sin?
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May 21, 2025, 2:42 PM
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Is that a yes or a no?
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Orange Immortal [65679]
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Re: Have you ever committed sin?
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May 21, 2025, 3:26 PM
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I honestly don't know. It depends on what you believe about God. If he did send people here to fix their identity, it would mean he created things that broke. The question then would be "why?". If the idea is that the fix is a one-time existence on earth to get it fixed, and if it doesn't get fixed, why didn't he fix it, if that's what he wanted. If it didn't get fixed, why does he allow things that break, or things he doesn't want in the first place? Unless of course, he wants things to break and souls to go to hell. Why does he included hell as a part of his creation?
These questions never get answered.
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Clemson Icon [26039]
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Re: Have you ever committed sin?
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May 21, 2025, 4:17 PM
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I understand you have asked the 'powerful/loving/knowing God' question many different ways, and recently have used it to address every subject that comes up on the board.
That question actually has been answered here, biblically, philosophically and personally. I understand you do not accept the answers. That is fine. However, declaring that question unanswered does not make it so. It is only so for you. And you are of course free to keep raising it, but it cannot affect anyone who has settled that issue.
The atheist/agnostic response to sin eventually comes down to one common claim: it does not exist. There is only violation of human norms, which humans handle. This gets worded different ways, from 'no moral absolute' to 'God-of-no-consequences', but the view of sin is the same; it can be philosophized away. After all, we did eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, so we believe we have that right. Everybody has to make their choice on that.
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110%er [3632]
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Re: Have you ever committed sin?
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May 21, 2025, 4:29 PM
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I think we should have that right. This idea of one single being having absolute authority seems immoral. We don’t run our country that way. Why would we be ok with the universe being ran that way?
It the answer is because god is all powerful, well so was Hitler to the Jewish population in Germany.
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110%er [3910]
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Re: Have you ever committed sin?
May 22, 2025, 6:29 AM
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If not from one all-powerful being, where do you think absolute authority should come from? Or, is there no absolute authority? I think this is where most skepticism comes from and it breaks down simply to this - some reject an all-powerful God because the world isn't they way they think it should be. People shouldn't go to hell for sin, therefore there cannot be an all-powerful God.
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Orange Immortal [65679]
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Re: Have you ever committed sin?
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May 21, 2025, 6:11 PM
[ in reply to Re: Have you ever committed sin? ] |
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It has not been answered. Sure, I've been given rambling nonsense that only prompts more questions, but no "God is all-powerful and all-knowing, but knowingly included things he didn't want (sin, evil, eternity in hell for those he created with love) because ______________ .
Instead I get stories and scripture and deflections, all of which avoid a straight answer.
I believe there is a God, who not only created all that is, but is all that is. I believe we are one with God. I believe everything exists per his will and for a purpose. Anything that exists only does so because it's exactly what he wants. It's all his will and part of his design.
I will do my best to answer questions about my beliefs as directly and succinctly as possible. If I don't know the answer or don't have it figured out, I will say so. I don't think I get the same from most on here. If we just disagree, which is normal, I accept that no problem. But when people willingly engaged and go down the rabbit hole, then I expect honest and sensible dialog. Some people on here insist that God is all powerful and then give me examples of his limited power or things he has to do a certain way. When I point out the contradiction I'm given more scripture that doesn't address the problem, or other explanations that don't address it, or stories or parables, or worst of all, denial of any contradiction. So no, I don't accept those as answers.
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Clemson Icon [26039]
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Re: Have you ever committed sin?
May 21, 2025, 7:26 PM
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Some of the answers fit your description, but some have been quite straightforward.
On this subject, the actual difference between the atheist/agnostic and the Christian is very concisely expressed by Dog in the post immediately above yours. Basically he answered my post with, "D*** right." That is fun and welcome blatantness, right there. If that conversation happened on my patio I'd toast the comment with our corn mash and say, "I'm sorry to lose you. Come Home anytime."
God will eternally grant him that moral independence. Dog would have it no other way. I hope he makes the other choice.
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National Champion [7203]
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Re: Have you ever committed sin?
May 21, 2025, 9:07 PM
[ in reply to Re: Have you ever committed sin? ] |
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I have given you a straight answer. God is loving and He is equally Just. His Glory is revealed in His grace. His Glory is revealed in His wrath.
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Orange Immortal [65679]
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Re: Have you ever committed sin?
May 21, 2025, 10:06 PM
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This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about.
Me: God is all-powerful and all-knowing, but knowingly included things he didn't want (sin, evil, eternity in hell for those he created with love) because ______________ .
You: God is loving and He is equally Just. His Glory is revealed in His grace. His Glory is revealed in His wrath.
That's you voicing an opinion that doesn't go in the blank. It's not a response to the question. It's you preaching a sermon. I'll give you this though, seriously, you did come right out and say that God WANTS evil and sin and souls he created spending eternity in hell. I appreciate that, but I still don't understand why you believe God wants those things.
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Tiger Titan [48820]
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Try to refrain from posting here but this one sucked me in
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May 22, 2025, 8:32 AM
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I think what you're stating goes back to a fairly simple logical problem.
If God is all good, he's certainly not all powerful, because he wouldn't create those things or that suffering.
And if God is all powerful, he certainly isn't all good.
And if a person does go to heaven, a realm of paradise, but knows that many of the people he loves and adored are burning and tormenting in hell, is he really living in paradise? Or does he just forget about those people?
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Clemson Icon [26039]
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Re: Try to refrain from posting here but this one sucked me in
May 22, 2025, 2:44 PM
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Well stated. As you know, that question has been around for millennia. It is the same question as, "Can God, in this universe, make a rock so heavy He cannot lift it?" Or, "Can God, in this universe, make a square circle?" "No" is said to define God in a way that proves the bible wrong. The answers to those are simple.
Whatever one believes or doesnt, atheist or Christian, we cant philosophize God into or out of existence, or into a definition of our liking.
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Orange Immortal [65679]
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Of course I've done things that most would consider sins.
May 21, 2025, 12:24 PM
[ in reply to Have you ever committed sin? ] |
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I have no idea if my God is "holy", because I have no idea what you mean by that, but if you believe that God created any of us knowing that we would spend eternity in hell, I don't believe you, until you can explain why he would do that.
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CU Medallion [20263]
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Anyone who would try to explain it
May 21, 2025, 1:29 PM
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would refer to the Bible. Have you read the Bible? If you have, then you have your answer. If you have and don't accept it, then you have yourself and [your] better way to walk. You should be happy with that, but you sure don't seem like it.
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Orange Immortal [65679]
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Re: Anyone who would try to explain it
May 21, 2025, 1:53 PM
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I was raised reading and studying the bible. Nowhere that I know of does it explain why God created most of us so that we would spend eternity in hell. That was entirely side-stepped.
The story I always got was that God didn't want us to go to hell, so instead of eliminating sin, which he could have done in the blink of an eye, or simply eliminating hell just as easily, I was told he had to allow those things he despised so he offered a blood sacrifice in the form of his son/himself to give us a way out if we so choose.
If you have the answer, please provide:
1. Why does God, entirely by choice, allow things he despises and opposes (sin)?
2. Why did God create humans knowing that most of them would spend eternity in hell?
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CU Medallion [20263]
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I agree
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May 21, 2025, 2:08 PM
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that God did not create mankind so many could spend eternity in hell. He intended mankind to live in peace, with Him, in the Garden. Sad that man had to throw that away. Sad that people are still throwing away opportunity at finding forgiveness and peace with Him even today.
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Orange Immortal [65679]
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Hold on a minute!
May 21, 2025, 3:11 PM
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God didn't know when he created us that most of us would spend eternity in hell? I was always taught that God was all-knowing.
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CU Medallion [20263]
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Hold on? Let go would work better
May 21, 2025, 5:03 PM
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than constantly trying to twist things up. As I have explained in the past - God knowing does not mean He also directed it to be that way. If all God wanted was for people to be in hell while others were in heaven, I believe He would have just done it that way. But, the Creator started in a garden and the creation walked away.
Certainly, you can have what you want, though.
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Orange Immortal [65679]
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Answer this straight up
May 21, 2025, 5:35 PM
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Did God choose to create us knowing that most of us would spend eternity in hell, or not?
As I've said, I believe God loves us, and would not do that. It seems you think he would. We'll never agree on that.
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CU Medallion [20263]
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Straight UP answer
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May 21, 2025, 8:32 PM
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Isaiah 55:8-9
For My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways My ways,” says the LORD. "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts.
And my point remains: God created us in love and asks for our love in return. Yet, He allows one to choose if they will or not. The apple or the Lamb. Your choice.
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Orange Immortal [65679]
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That's just more straight up BS that avoids the question.
May 21, 2025, 10:21 PM
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But I'll try again.
Did God choose to create us knowing that most of us would spend eternity in hell, or not?
No sermon, no scripture, no lesson. Just answer, yes or no. Then elaborate or preach all you want.
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CU Medallion [20263]
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I did answer your question
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May 22, 2025, 8:38 AM
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and you grow angrier about it. Why? It is your choice to make. Did I provide too many options for you to choose from?
Whatever it might be, you have been answered. In summary, though, you way of thinking is flawed in that you think you can 'bend" God into being what you claim Him to be... yet you don't know Him. Therefore, your "bending" of God and His word is also flawed.
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Orange Immortal [65679]
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Please copy and paste where you answered this question:
May 22, 2025, 11:00 AM
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Did God choose to create us knowing that most of us would spend eternity in hell, or not?
And it's hillarious that you are suggesting that I am bending God into what I want him to be, because you are a classic example of doing just that! It's downright comical! I am trying to understand why and how you believe what you believe, but you are playing a game where you won't answer a simple question. I can and will tell you what I believe, why I believe it, things I'm less certain of or just don't have an answer for. I will answer any follow up questions you have, without dodging or dancing. Let's try it this way, and see if you dodge it again:
Did God create our souls knowing that most would spend eternity in hell? Choose one:
Yes or No.
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CU Medallion [20263]
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Give it up
May 22, 2025, 4:10 PM
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you will not get anywhere with me through your "simplicity attack" to define what cannot be defined that easily.
Besides, you don't know that most will spend eternity in hell.
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National Champion [7203]
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Orange Immortal [65679]
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Thank you.
May 21, 2025, 10:57 PM
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We simply disagree, and that's fine, but why does God seek glory? To me, that sounds exactly like the kind of God ancient tribal men who feared and revered warlords who sought glory would create. Their God was based on the powerful men of their time. Glory, wrath, power, vengence, etc..
I believe God is love, with no room for those things. No need or desire for glory. His power and authority is total and has no rival, so he has no room for any of those things anyway.
I am interested in what purpose sin and evil have in God's design according to your beliefs, when he could accomplish anything without them.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [102960]
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You need a dictionary?
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May 22, 2025, 6:45 AM
[ in reply to Of course I've done things that most would consider sins. ] |
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Holy means morally perfect, set apart from all others in character, attitude and actions. It's beyond the perfection of perfect and far past flawless.
David, the shepherd, the King, the Prophet and poet said it best in Psa 119:
"I have seen an end of all perfection: but thy commandment is exceeding broad."
You and I are just a pair of floaters in God's Holy punch bowl. Jesus died to cover our sin, to make us holy so that we might be presented to God holy and acceptable to Him.
That is why Jesus told Nicodemus 'ye must be born again;' born of God's Spirit as a new creature.
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Orange Immortal [65679]
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No, a dictionary is worthless when the question is "Are you using the
May 22, 2025, 11:24 AM
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standard, accepted dictionary definition, or are you defining the word differently, as many people do when using words to describe God".
David, the shepherd, the King, the Prophet and poet said it best in Psa 119:
"I have seen an end of all perfection: but thy commandment is exceeding broad."
You and I are just a pair of floaters in God's Holy punch bowl. Jesus died to cover our sin, to make us holy so that we might be presented to God holy and acceptable to Him.
That is why Jesus told Nicodemus 'ye must be born again;' born of God's Spirit as a new creature.
That's what you believe, your beliefs. I think I've got a pretty good handle on that, and that's perfectly okay with me, even if I disagree. I'm just trying to understand how and why.
It's my belief that God loves us, and therefore would never create a single soul knowing it would spend eternity in hell. I'm trying to understand why you think he does just that. Why? What's his motivation? What's the advantage of us having the ability to reject God and spend eternity in hell? Who benefits from that? And please tell me in your own words, without quoting scripture or preaching a sermon.
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Re: Faith, trusting in God and trusting God is not optional.
May 21, 2025, 4:20 PM
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Man made all of of that up though. Those are the words of man. There could be a God, but those aren't his words, nor is anything in the Bible.
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National Champion [7203]
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Re: Faith, trusting in God and trusting God is not optional.
May 21, 2025, 8:43 PM
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If you are not His sheep, you don't hear His voice. To His sheep, we know The Bible is His Word because we commune with The Shepherd.
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Clemson Icon [26381]
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Re: Faith, trusting in God and trusting God is not optional.
May 21, 2025, 8:46 PM
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But not in reality. In the real world none of that happens. It's just something you want to believe in. It's the same as those Muslims getting virgins. They believe.
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National Champion [7203]
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Re: Faith, trusting in God and trusting God is not optional.
May 21, 2025, 9:05 PM
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In reality, I am His sheep and hear His voice.
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Re: Faith, trusting in God and trusting God is not optional.
May 21, 2025, 10:53 PM
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Nah... you really don't. Not what you think it is.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [102960]
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I made a critical error in the OP.
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May 22, 2025, 7:02 AM
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A man can trust in God that God can and has saved him yet still not trust that God will be what he wants Him to be and do what he wants Him to do. Sometimes I find myself trying to micromanage God.
I might get to the middle of prayer and tell God how I think He should deal with an issue. That's one of my 'pet,' sin. Christ closed His prayer with 'thy will be done,' in the garden when He was facing the cross.
Trusting God is a daily task for me.
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