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Correct me if I'm wrong on this COVID stuff
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Replies: 50  

Correct me if I'm wrong on this COVID stuff


Aug 19, 2021, 9:19 AM
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For the vast majority of people who test positive or are symptomatic, it's generally no major issue. It may be extremely annoying, frustrating, inconveniencing, etc, like a really bad flu, but they don't need hospitalization, it eventually passes and they're back at doing life again.

But for the relatively small percentage who do have major issues and have to be hospitalized, it can be very, very bad and the likelihood of it being fatal increases dramatically.

And for the even smaller percentage (of the whole) who have to be admitted to the ICU, the odds of leaving alive are slim.

Is this not fairly accurate (given all of the generalities)? I've always been of the mindset that for the vast majority who contract it, it's basically no big deal - not long term, anyway. But for those for whom it is a big deal, it's a really, really big deal, and perhaps life threatening. Correct, or no?

Either way, those who opt not to get the vax, for whatever reason, are essentially playing the odds - odds that are generally in their favor (assuming good health, no comorbities, etc) but odds that get worse and less in their favor as the severity of the infection increases, and that's something none of us have any control over. Correct here as well, or no?

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Re: Correct me if I'm wrong on this COVID stuff

[4]
Aug 19, 2021, 9:26 AM
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You are as close to right as anyone I suppose.. the problem is the apparent random selection of who gets the worst of it and who does not.
Right now I know several people with C19...
I know healthy people in their 30s.. they are on o2 in the hospital...
I also know a 90 year old man who has every health problem you can think of... he is asymptomatic.. not one symptom.
What possible sense does that make???
I know a family of 5 that spent 4 days in a tiny camper camping in the woods...
The dad starts showing symptoms the day they come back.. tests positive.
The other 4 family members, after being in a confined space with him for 4 nights, all test negative???
(1 vaxxed, 3 unvaxxed (kids))
There is so much still unknown. There are other factors at play that we have no knowledge of... whether it be a nutrition element? Blood types? Genetic markers? Does the virus itself have an "on and off" mode? Maybe 10 years from now someone will be able to explain it but it seemingly is a roll of the dice as far as what happens when someone gets infected.

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Re: Correct me if I'm wrong on this COVID stuff


Aug 19, 2021, 9:40 AM
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Thanks for the information. Several folks in my large extended family have had Covid. Some were treated and some not. Some has taken the shot, some has not. Two family members died from Covid related symptoms. One had many underlying problems. The other was a healthy 60 year old.

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Re: Correct me if I'm wrong on this COVID stuff


Aug 19, 2021, 9:50 AM
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But the dice are more often loaded against you if you haven't been vaccinated!!! If you have been vaccinated, your chances of winning that battle can about 95% better depending on the vaccine you got!!!

Not a 100% sure, but I think they are saying that the Pfizer vaccine is the one they are giving to the elderly, and people of high risk.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations_vacc-total-admin-rate-total


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It’s actually not as random as you think.

[2]
Aug 19, 2021, 10:40 AM
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Only about 1200 people under the age of 25 have died and the overwhelming majority of them had health issues. Have you seen how fat kids are today? How out of shape? All the potato chips and power drinks that they consume? Have you seen the level of diabetes among children today? So for kids under the age of 25 There is literally no danger from Covid, especially if you are healthy. And let’s be honest if you’re under 25 and not healthy that’s typically because of your diet and lifestyle.

80% of the people that have died from Covid were over the age of 65 and had a weak immune system.

80% of the people that have died from Covid were obese and had diabetes.

Yes. Some middle-aged or young healthy people have died from Covid. But statistically that is extremely unlikely.

So there are clear patterns as to who are the at risk groups. And don’t forget there have been less than 700,000 deaths in a country with a population of 328.5 million people.

And don’t forget that 700,000 should be much less. We know for a fact that if you die of a heart attack, from cancer, or in a car accident and you tested positive for Covid your death counts as a Covid death. That is a fact.

We also know that somewhere around 50,000 people died in New Jersey, New York, Michigan and a few other states where Covid patients were put in nursing homes. None of those people had to die.

And we also know that the first six months doctors had no idea how to treat this and were putting a lot of patients on ventilators that didn’t need to be and a lot of people died simply because of the way they were being treated or the lack of treatment.

So the reality is the number of people we’re being told died from Covid is inflated by at least 10% if not 20. And many of them never should’ve died in the first place.

And we have no idea what the case fatality rate is because more than 50% of the people getting Covid are asymptomatic. Unless they were to get tested they will never know they had Covid.

But that’s another problem. The PCR test was never designed for Covid. It actually doesn’t even test for Covid. PCR experts even say it’s not a good test to use for Covid. And if you understand how A PCR test works, without knowing the number of cycles needed to reach that positive result the test is pretty worthless. If you are at 25 cycles or less then you have enough viral load to be sick. There is a lot of debate about 25 to 30 cycles. Most experts say anything over 27 cycles is excessive and those are effectively a false positive. But they are going to 40 cycles.

Therefore, a positive PCR test when you don’t have symptoms is useless if you don’t know how many cycles it took to get that positive. Anything over 27 and you should not be considered positive and should not be getting quarantined.

This is why many experts are saying we should not be randomly testing people and never should have been randomly testing people. The only people that should be getting tested are people showing symptoms.

New Zealand just went back into hard-core lockdown because one person tested positive for the Delta variant. Did that person have symptoms? How many cycles was there PCR test? This is a perfect example of how insane government officials are reacting to Covid. It’s totally nuts!

The country and the economy and millions more lives than will die from Covid are being destroyed because of totally bat #### crazy government policies in America and around the world. These people are not following science or data. And they #### sure don’t understand the PCR test.


Message was edited by: Lowcntry_Tiger®


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PING!!!!


Aug 19, 2021, 11:53 AM
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Go Tigers AND Stay Well Clemson Nation!

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Take care, stay well and see you soon in The Valley!


Re: It’s actually not as random as you think.


Aug 19, 2021, 2:23 PM
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You posted a lot of information here, can you cite your sources please? I could be wrong, but something tells me you can't or won't.

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Call me a "Conspiracy Theorist", but your

[1]
Aug 19, 2021, 10:45 AM
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question that scares me the most is, Does the virus itself have an "on and off" mode?.

This virus was designed in a lab for biological warfare. Who knows what they engineered into it?

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FAT SHAMER.....Lizzo Gonna Get You***


Aug 19, 2021, 11:32 AM
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Re: Correct me if I'm wrong on this COVID stuff

[3]
Aug 19, 2021, 9:35 AM
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Yep. I’ve never had the flu. I had a fever for a couple of hours back in 2014 and that was my first fever since I was 11 (mid 40’s now). In other words I never get sick. Yet there’s idiots that think it should be mandatory for me to get vaccinated SMH.

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Re: Correct me if I'm wrong on this COVID stuff


Aug 19, 2021, 10:00 AM
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I hope you and your family have good doctors and you can find a hospital that will take you.

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Re: Correct me if I'm wrong on this COVID stuff

[1]
Aug 19, 2021, 10:40 AM
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I hope you have a good doctor who will treat you promptly with ivermectin, an antibiotic, a steroid w/ nebulizer and throw in a few aspirin. You will be good to go in a few day and have natural immunity.

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Re: Correct me if I'm wrong on this COVID stuff

[1]
Aug 19, 2021, 10:46 AM
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I'm a good bit older than him ^^^ and had the flu only once 2014 and it was the only year I took the flu vaccine because of a different variant was going around. I started taking extra vitamin D (like Fauci, Just look it up) with no soybean oil in it and when I get around big crowds I come home and use Xlear(look up a January 28, 2021 article from Biospace, which is a Pharmaceutical website). So the point is, I have not had a sniffle either. So us awful unvaccinated degenerates are not rebels, we just choose to do our homework and weigh the risk and live our lives. Yes I will wear a mask to please the fearful, but I won't be pressured into getting a shot for a virus ever again.

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Re: Correct me if I'm wrong on this COVID stuff


Aug 19, 2021, 11:14 AM
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Just because you almost never get sick that doesn't mean you can't get seriously sick or even die from COVID-19. That's just silly.

I'm not sure if it's still the case, but there were some suggestions back in the early months of the pandemic that it's actually people with the strongest immune responses that do the worse with COVID-19 infections. Something about an overreaction by the body's immune system.

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Dunno. The Spanish Flu killed primarily the young and strong


Aug 19, 2021, 4:34 PM
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because of the reasons you stated - immune system overreaction.

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I thought like you until I was around 65, then the troubles


Aug 19, 2021, 12:16 PM
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started, the VA has saved my life 3 times in last 7 or 8 years. After Congestive Heart "failure" (bad terminology - my heart did not fail), 2 years ago, I went into cardiac rehab and have stayed working out along with yoga, and in better shape than before covid. I do most of my work-out outside on track with stretch machines, jogging carrying a light barbell, and am in better shape than in years. I credit the vaccinations with increasing my antibodies, which I could feel helping me in my workouts. I highly recommend the vaccinations, because they do help your immune system. And I still wear a mask because even though vaccinated, can still carry the virus.
Protect the children 12 and under, who cannot be vaccinated, by wearing a mask.

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.058 % (349) of reported US COVID deaths have been from.....


Aug 19, 2021, 4:35 PM
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age group 0-17 years old. So COVID deaths of children 12&under are miniscule.

I'm fully vaccinated, therefore will NOT wear a mask..............it was an "either/or" decision for me and I opted for the non-approved Vaccine to get out of the mask.

Vaccines can be encouraged, but shouldn't be mandated.

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Re: Correct me if I'm wrong on this COVID stuff


Aug 20, 2021, 10:51 PM
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Yep. I’ve never had the flu. I had a fever for a couple of hours back in 2014 and that was my first fever since I was 11 (mid 40’s now). In other words I never get sick. Yet there’s idiots that think it should be mandatory for me to get vaccinated SMH.


No one thinks it should be mandatory. But you should have to wait for a hospital bed in the ICU behind children under 12 and those who cannot be vaccinated for health reasons who have become sick. Fair?

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Re: Correct me if I'm wrong on this COVID stuff


Aug 19, 2021, 9:38 AM
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https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/more-than-medicine/id1460173985?i=10005319

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Re: Correct me if I'm wrong on this COVID stuff


Aug 19, 2021, 9:40 AM
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https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/why-i-dont-recommend-the-so-called-covid-vaccines/id1460173985?i=1000531997326

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The 6 people I knew in our community that died from it...

[2]
Aug 19, 2021, 9:49 AM
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probably wished that they had the shot. Some died before the vax was available, some after.

It's a weird defiance to the vaccine in our country.

I jumped at the chance and got the J&J, wished I had held out a little longer for the 2 shot.

Personally, I don't care either way if you decide to get it or not. It's a free country.

This virus isn't natural and to think it came from a bat is unrealistic. A vaccine may not protect you 100%, nothing in life is a guaranty, except death and taxes.

But, just like wearing a seatbelt or a helmet, be prepared for the consequences if you don't.

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I've had one friend who died from it


Aug 19, 2021, 9:53 AM
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back in Aug last year, he was 48. Worked at a long term care facility. No known underlying conditions, but I think he did have polio or something as a child growing up in the Philippines. I'm 51 and have had no peers die from it, but I have certainly heard of younger people in the 30s & 40s dying from it.

You're right, it's not natural. And that should literally be a crime for which someone should pay, but it won't happen. Instead, nations around the world will continue to spend millions and billions to fight it. It's quite the mess, and only one nation seems to be profiting from it....

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Re: The 6 people I knew in our community that died from it...

emoji_events [6]
Aug 19, 2021, 9:53 AM
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Just to be clear, I am not anti-vax. I am anti-MANDATE.
Every one needs to determine their own personal risk/reward for their own health situation.
I am 100% opposed to MANDATES!

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^^^This guy gets it^^^^^***

[1]
Aug 19, 2021, 11:09 AM
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Do not like mandates, you must not be a vet?


Aug 19, 2021, 12:19 PM
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VA hospitals have the best records around Covid, because Veterans HAVE to follow orders to get into the hospital.

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Re: Correct me if I'm wrong on this COVID stuff

emoji_events [9]
Aug 19, 2021, 9:55 AM
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Pretty fair analysis. Just some thoughts as a former Bio major and with many family members in the medical field.

Vaccinations save lives. Period. The number of people getting sick who are fully vaccinated is extremely low compared to partially vaccinated and non-vaccinated individuals. Why gamble? Why not take the free tried and true method of prevention (especially for death/severe illness).
You may wind up on a death bed being forced to take experimental conconctions of drugs and treatments to try to save your life, when you could have just had a dose of something that 2.5 billion people worldwide have already taken and are doing fine with.

Do yourself a favor and find a legit medical professional to explain the vaccination process and understand how revolutionary this vaccine is.

Vaccinations help fight infections and worsening symptoms, so the quicker you beat it, the less you spread it. The less you spread it, the less it can mutate into far worse variants than people even realize.

Masks save lives. There is a reason that CDC, DHEC, Epidemiologists, and just about every doctor worth a degree says to wear them. They are begging and pleading for people to just put it on.
Even if you are a "super healthy, I never get sick ever" type individual - you might be fine, but the average transmission of the delta variant has jumped up from an infection rate of 1 --> 3 to 5 people to 1 --> 8 - 10 people. That is 8 - 10 people that you may not even realize you are infecting that may not be so lucky as you. But I've known, read, and seen too many people who are the "I never get sick" variety who got very very sick.

20% of the tests are coming back positive right now. 2/10 people have Covid that are being tested.

2 --> 16 to 20 people getting infected potentially.

I'm just totally at a loss as to how America got so selfish and become so egocentrically focused. We had everything in place to beat this and knockdown its variants... we were almost in single-digit cases less than 3 months ago. But everywhere I go now it looks like a party and free for all. Stores, work, etc. My children who can't be vaccinated are forced to be around other kids whose parents won't mask them, and without protection barriers in place and mask mandates from the state and we have no option to do anything but send them. Meanwhile people complain about wearing a piece of cloth because 'freedumb' is more important than looking out for each other.

Thumbs down away .. I get it. I just can't shut up anymore - I'm so tired of it all. We had this thing beat.

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Re: Correct me if I'm wrong on this COVID stuff


Aug 19, 2021, 9:57 AM
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If 18/20 doctors recommended a treatment plan for you to fight cancer, I bet you wouldn't even bat an eye signing the paperwork.

If 18/20 doctors say to wear a mask and get the vaccine... I just don't understand the difference.

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"There's something in these hills and I suspect that's what it is - the ability of an institution through the unending dedication and greatness of its people - its administration, its faculty, its staff, its students and alumni - to impart to all it touches a respect, an admiration, an affection that stands firm in disquieting times when things around it give impressions of coming unglued." - Joe Sherman '34


Re: Correct me if I'm wrong on this COVID stuff


Aug 19, 2021, 10:12 AM
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I'm not anti-vax at all. I haven't had it, but I don't rule it out. To your analogy, if the cancer plan was as new as these vaccines are and were rushed to market as these were (no conspiracy theory here - they simply were rushed to market due to the global demand and the need for those in the highest risk categories, particularly) then I would wait before pursuing it just as I'm waiting to decide on the vaccine.

I'm neither Yes or No, right now, but more of a "Wait and see." I understand it's a gamble, but I also understand that having the vaccine is also no guarantee, though it does seem to certainly minimize the risk, but all of that data, particularly with these new variants, are still not fully researched and evaluated yet. I don't call those who have had the vax sheep or whatever - I respect their decisions based upon their own research, knowledge and health conditions. And I'm not a conspiracy theorist who thinks there's a chip in there or it will alter my DNA or affect potential reproduction or whatever. If I were high risk, I'd have gotten it as soon as I could. I'm not and at this point feel the odds are in my favor and am taking the wait and see approach, while also trying to keep safe distance from others and practice practical precautions to keep from either spreading or catching as well.

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Re: Correct me if I'm wrong on this COVID stuff


Aug 19, 2021, 11:33 AM
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That's probably easy to say now... without Cancer and without a bunch of experimental plans laid out in front of you... but truly, when given a bad prognosis with cancer unless treated, I think most patients tend to readily jump at some of the new options out there.

Waiting is just letting the virus continue to mutate. Our vaccine is already less suited to handle the delta variant... just "wait" and see what kind of nastiness this thing could turn out in the upcoming months or years while everyone waits.

Again... do research, talk to doctors, find out how this vaccine was made. I'm not here to explain it all on TigerNet or point you to some youtube video... but this is an extremely effective and safe vaccine for an overwhelming majority of people who have taken it... like.. BILLIONS of people.

The risk of long-term vaccine effects is extremely low because of the way this vaccine is engineered... again don't take my word for it, research it from reputable medical professionals.

An insane amount of people who are preaching freedom of choice for vaccines and masks are going to great lengths to make sure they are vaccinated and their kids/families wear masks behind the scenes.

It is what it is... but I urge you to talk with doctors and read medical information about it.

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a few weeks ago the "professionals" said.........


Aug 19, 2021, 3:01 PM
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if you have the vaccine you do NOT need to wear a mask.

the problem with your 18/20 doctors statement is that those 20 doctors change their tune every single day.........it's a moving target, it's moving the goalposts, it's what's been done the last 18 months.

I got the vaccine. 10 days later I threw every mask I owned in the trash. It's an either/or for me. If I have to wear a mask AND get the vax then that tells me the vax doesn't work. And before ANYBODY says "it's protecting the unvaxxed".........it's been 3-4 months for ANYBODY who wants the vax can get it. If they don't want it, then that's their choice, but I'm not wearing a MASK after being VACCINATED to protect the ones that haven't been vaxxed. And before anybody says "...but the children" the % of critical cases in children are miniscule. There are personal circumstances where some either can't be vaxxed, or have health complications that put them at more risk and my brutally honest advice for that is that person probably shouldn't be going "out and about" anyways regardless of whether COVID exists or not.

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Re: Correct me if I'm wrong on this COVID stuff


Aug 19, 2021, 11:58 AM
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Masks as used by the general public have virtually no impact on COVID, the flu, or similar respiratory viruses. Prior to COVID, many RCT studies showed no effective difference between masking and not masking for influenza and similar viruses.

The best the CDC can says is that mask mandates resulted in 0.5% reduction in COVID infections versus non-mandate areas, but cannot demonstrate that it was masks themselves that mad a difference (it could be that mask mandates modified other related behaviors). 0.5%...so for every 1000 people that get infected with COVID in non-mandated areas, *only* 995 people will get infected in mask mandated areas, maybe. Of those 5 people save from being infected, statistically zero of them would likely have died from COVID.

Staying away from people and washing hands regularly are probably more effective than masks, but even those are called into question for respiratory diseases.


CDC's Emerging Infectious Diseases Journal

Volume 26, Number 5—May 2020

"Nonpharmaceutical Measures for Pandemic Influenza in Nonhealthcare Settings—Personal Protective and Environmental Measures "

In our systematic review, we identified 10 RCTs that reported estimates of the effectiveness of face masks in reducing laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the community from literature published during 1946–July 27, 2018. In pooled analysis, we found no significant reduction in influenza transmission with the use of face masks (RR 0.78, 95% CI 0.51–1.20; I2 = 30%, p = 0.25)


Influenza virus and COVID virus are not so dissimilar as to expect any real differences.

Volume 26, Number 10—October 2020

"Effectiveness of Cloth Masks for Protection Against Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2"

The general public can use cloth masks to protect against infection spread in the community. In community settings, masks may be used in 2 ways. First, they may be used by sick persons to prevent spread of infection (source control), and most health organizations (including WHO and CDC) recommend such use. In fact, a recent CDC policy change with regard to community use of cloth masks (1) is also based on high risk for transmission from asymptomatic or presymptomatic persons (32). According to some studies, ?25%–50% of persons with COVID-19 have mild cases or are asymptomatic and potentially can transmit infection to others. So in areas of high transmission, mask use as source control may prevent spread of infection from persons with asymptomatic, presymptomatic, or mild infections. If medical masks are prioritized for healthcare workers, the general public can use cloth masks as an alternative. Second, masks may be used by healthy persons to protect them from acquiring respiratory infections; some randomized controlled trials have shown masks to be efficacious in closed community settings, with and without the practice of hand hygiene (33). Moreover, in a widespread pandemic, differentiating asymptomatic from healthy persons in the community is very difficult, so at least in high-transmission areas, universal face mask use may be beneficial. The general public should be educated about mask use because cloth masks may give users a false sense of protection because of their limited protection against acquiring infection (16). Correctly putting on and taking off cloth masks improves protection (Table). Taking a mask off is a high-risk process (34) because pathogens may be present on the outer surface of the mask and may result in self-contamination during removal (31).

n 2015, we conducted a randomized controlled trial to compare the efficacy of cloth masks with that of medical masks and controls (standard practice) among healthcare workers in Vietnam (4). Rates of infection were consistently higher among those in the cloth mask group than in the medical mask and control groups. This finding suggests that risk for infection was higher for those wearing cloth masks. The mask tested was a locally manufactured, double-layered cotton mask. Participants were given 5 cloth masks for a 4-week study period and were asked to wash the masks daily with soap and water (4). The poor performance may have been because the masks were not washed frequently enough or because they became moist and contaminated. Medical and cloth masks were used by some participants in the control group, but the poor performance of cloth masks persisted in post hoc analysis when we compared all participants who used medical masks (from the control and the medical mask groups) with all participants who used only a cloth mask (from the control and the cloth mask groups)(4).

CDC "Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR)"

"Association of State-Issued Mask Mandates and Allowing On-Premises Restaurant Dining with County-Level COVID-19 Case and Death Growth Rates — United States, March 1–December 31, 2020"

During March 1–December 31, 2020, state-issued mask mandates applied in 2,313 (73.6%) of the 3,142 U.S. counties. Mask mandates were associated with a 0.5 percentage point decrease (p = 0.02) in daily COVID-19 case growth rates 1–20 days after implementation

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Aug 19, 2021, 12:21 PM
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Re: Correct me if I'm wrong on this COVID stuff


Aug 19, 2021, 9:57 AM
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I guess millions of us are smarter than others who are willing to play on old game of Russian Roulette. Which group are you in?

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People bashing people that don’t get vaccinated


Aug 19, 2021, 10:23 AM
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Are using very flawed logic.

Even if you are not vaccinated you are unlikely to get Covid. And you are extremely unlikely to be very sick or die. That is proven by the data.

In a country with 328.5 million people less than 700,000 have died. There have been less than 40 million confirmed cases. And I know several people that have had it twice. So that’s one person accounting for two positive outcomes. We will never know how many people actually had Covid.

So using terms like gambling and Russian roulette are hyperbolic when less than 1/5 of 1% of the population has died when only slightly over 50% of the population is fully vaccinated, especially when you consider the vaccine wasn’t available until the end of last year and until March only old people were eligible.


Message was edited by: Lowcntry_Tiger®


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Re: Correct me if I'm wrong on this COVID stuff

[1]
Aug 19, 2021, 10:48 AM
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Incorrect approach. 1 in 50 dying is NOT considered a small risk. Anything that is 1 in 100 or higher is considered a high risk. That is with medical treatment. Without it can be as high as 1 in 10 or 1 in 12 without.

Give you an example, Covid is as or more deadly than: Smallpox minor/major vaccinated), non-weaponized skin infection form of Anthrax (other forms are more deadly), Mumps, Measels, Polio (with treatment), african cholera, and SARS is very close.

but the big difference is how fast it spreads. All of these spread slowly in comparison. Thus the numbers that can be infected and die within a window is greater than can be treated.


Rolling the dice in a game of chance, all you lose normally is your money, maybe you clothes. no-one has to deal with the cleanup from that (unless there is a bigger problem). However, in the healthcare side of things, the "oh well, you lost" is never an option. They can't turn folks away. Go tell a 10yo kid that "sorry, you dad played the odds" in a hospital. And when you are starved for O2, you can and will do anything to solve that. The rational "playing the odds" part of your brain isn't functioning. All that is left is the animal survival.

This isn't an opted in, trip to vegas. Risk vs reward does not really apply here. It will be a "you are forced to play the game" and that is not a choice at that point. Worse, you are not just playing the odds for yourself. Unless you are a hermit, you WILL be forcing someone else to "play the odds" with you. That is what is ticking so many people off.

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People like you should not be doctors.

[1]
Aug 19, 2021, 10:55 AM
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You are irrational. And you are fear mongering. Actually you’re flat out lying.

Less than 700,000 people have died and that is an inflated number. America has a population of 328.5 million people. That’s a death rate of .0019 or .19%. That means at the current rate you have 1/5 of 1% likelihood of dying from Covid.

But even that is not accurate because we know for a fact that it doesn’t kill people equally. We know for a fact there are certain groups that are making up the vast majority of Covid deaths. If you are not over 65 and have a weak immune system and if you are not overweight and have diabetes you have next to nothing to be concerned about.

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Re: People like you should not be doctors.

[1]
Aug 19, 2021, 11:25 AM
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The truth is. It’s a real virus but vastly overhyped /fear gouging . The Globalist will stop at nothing to destroy the west , freedom of speech , the private sector , and anyone and anything that stands in front of them.

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Re: People like you should not be doctors.

[1]
Aug 19, 2021, 11:25 AM
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Low, you do not know what count.

What you are citing is the crude death rate. You don't divide the national population vs death. Not when taking into account those that have not been infected. What you need to be using is the case fatality rate. I would talk about external validity in research here but I think the education would be lost .... but I will give it a try.

The best example as why you don't take the whole national population/ crude death rate is: pregnancy mortality rate of the childbearing mother. You would literally be counting people that both would not apply into the percentage (men), not pregnant women, non-childbearing women (age etc). Thus you would naturally and artificially create a rate far below the actual rate and risk a woman would die in childbirth. You need to have your statistical- definition "population" match what you are actually studing (ie external validity)

You take the number of confirmed cases and then divide the number of deaths by the number of cases. You will end up around 1.7% in the US. But wait, I am targeting the morality of those that are contracting Covid and are unvaccinated. The death rate is declining mostly due to the vaccine. Unvaccinated are still around a 2% rate with treatment (ie access to an ICU). We know it can be more deadly because we have seen the medical capacity run out in places with ICUs like italy, while other contries that have limited care/resources (but ok data reporting) have rates above 8-9% like Peru, Yemen, Mexico. It is a lot higher than if they do not have access to ICU or medical treatment as those are finite supply.

At the core, you can't take the uininfected and count them towards as "surviving covid".

Yes, like in all health cases, other conditions have an effect. You chance of dying from covid increases just by being 30 year old and increase exponentially from there. Because of how covid shuts down respiratory function and stresses other processes, any underlying condition will make survival less... but as high as 1 in 2 Americans have an a preexisting medical condition so... that is a lot of people.

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what is your acceptable number?


Aug 19, 2021, 11:42 AM
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how many can die from it and it not bother you and continue to be next to nothing to be concerned about

amazes me that thousands of preventable deaths seem so acceptable to folks who think like you

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Re: what is your acceptable number?


Aug 19, 2021, 12:12 PM
Reply

COVID-19 is clearly, at this point, at least somewhat more transmissible and lethal than influenza, we know that thousands of Americans (an estimated 60-90 thousand Americans died of flu in 2017/18) people die every year of the flu, even though we have herd immunity, vaccines, and are almost never overwhelmed by victims such that people die who might have been saved but for the lack of equipment or personnel.

If all *this* is deemed good for COVID-19, in a "no death is acceptable" world, why did we not shutdown before to save those thousands of people EVERY YEAR? Why were mask mandates not a thing before? Clearly society was just fine with "murdering" thousands of people every year by walking around unmasked, not socially distancing, going to church, etc. all the things that spread COVID spread the flu, and we JUST LET THEM HAPPEN AND MURDERED PEOPLE? Oh what a world!?

All the people trying to lay blame and shame people for their COVID behaviors...they seem to think they are absolved from responsibility for spreading the flu that kills so many annually. They never looked up and saw 20l, 30k, 60k people (2017/18 flu season killed between 60k and 90k, estimates vary because flu deaths are not required to be reported!) and said "Gee, we need to social distance and wear masks all the time to save these people!" and if/when COVID is solved, I suspect they will go right back to ignoring flu deaths.

If preventing one COVID death is worth everything we've been through, why is preventing one flu death not?

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so many just look at the deat rate

[1]
Aug 19, 2021, 11:34 AM
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there's more to it than that... the costs and stressors to our health care system are ridiculous

why? because hospitals are running out of room because they have so many COVID cases to treat

https://www.ajc.com/news/coronavirus/as-covid-19-surge-continues-georgia-hospitals-running-out-of-icu-beds/LQN7LSZNU5H7TADFLCYDKNZ2R4/


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'death'


Aug 19, 2021, 11:43 AM
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https://www.texastribune.org/2021/08/10/coronavirus-texas-hospitals-icu-beds/


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Re: Correct me if I'm wrong on this COVID stuff

[1]
Aug 19, 2021, 11:46 AM
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Give you some additional stats...my son is a doctor in SC hospital. Currently have an excess of 170
covid-19 patients in the hospital. 88% of the patients have not had the shot(its not a vaccination but
a shot much like the Flu shot) or had the first shot only. I have been told if I get the shot don't get the Johnson & Johnson. Just food for thought!

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Good, except the Johnson and Johnson works just not as well


Aug 19, 2021, 12:29 PM
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I was in the trial, and got the real shot, not the fake one, and got a small case of flu. And glad I did, as I knew my antibodies were increasing. A few months later, J & J told me I could go ahead and get the two MRN4 shots, because of different systems. After the 2nd Moderna shot, I again got a mild case of flu, which pleased me, because again more antibodies. Since I work out regularly, I can feel the increased immune systems, after the shots. I am 77, and feel healthier than in years, plus I still wear a mask to protect the unvaccinated esp. the children under 12 who cannot be vaccinated. Thanks for your message.

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The covid vaccine is not a vaccination? That's interesting***


Aug 19, 2021, 12:34 PM
Reply



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Re: The covid vaccine is not a vaccination? That's interesting***


Aug 19, 2021, 12:41 PM
Reply

Epidemiologist said on TV last night that it was originally said that the EUA wouldn’t have been approved if they were under 50% effective as some studies are showing Pfizer to be against Delta. He said a vaccine that only lasts for 6-8 months is pretty low quality or something to that effect.

I am not anti-vax and I think they have been useful. I think we can all agree though that they haven’t turned out as hoped. They are not like most other traditional vaccines where once you get them, you can pretty much bank on never getting whatever they protect you against. 39-42% effectiveness against Delta is about in the range of the annual flu shot I believe. Still better than nothing.

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So it's a vaccine for the alpha variant, but not the...


Aug 19, 2021, 2:30 PM
Reply

variant?

I'm not sure that's how it works, but it's semantics either way.

I think we can all (all reasonable ppl anyways) agree that if enough people would have taken the vaccine when made available to them that the chance of this level of spread of the delta variant would have been severely reduced.

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Re: So it's a vaccine for the alpha variant, but not the...


Aug 19, 2021, 5:12 PM
Reply

What are you basing that on? They’ve clearly stated that the viral load is the same in both vax’d and unvax’s. Vax’d people are clearly getting and spreading it. The degree is unknown because our research and data is so poor. There are probably a lot of asymptomatic positives among the vax’d too that never get tested and counted. They still could have sores it.

It’s not really semantics either. These vaccines were never as effective as other vaccines in the past. That was known going in how difficult it would be to make a coronavirus vaccine. Fauci said it might be 3-5 years and maybe never.

They came up with something that was highly effective against the original and Alpha. It’s more like a flu shot now with Delta. It looks like it will be hit or miss going forward with other variants and we will be pretty dependent on boosters.

Anyone saying getting vax’d will eliminate this just isn’t paying attention and is maybe living in last year’s hope. Not saying that’s you but plenty are. What it pretty much is at this point is a prophylactic treatment that might keep our hospitals from overflowing.

COVID isn’t going away until we get an actual traditional vaccine or evolution just makes it a non-factor like previous viruses.

2022 orange level member flag link

Pretty accurate. Also no such thing as asymptomatic spread.


Aug 19, 2021, 3:44 PM
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So the group of people you talk about that have the virus but have no symptoms, they aren't spreading it.

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I agree with most of that. Anecdotally - I fit squarely in


Aug 19, 2021, 4:52 PM
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the "good health, no comorbities, etc" category. I was careful - but not to the point of living like a hermit. I figured I was unlikely to get it and - if I did - I would be fine. (So, I was playing the odds as you say.)

But I did get it (in January) and it kicked my buttocks for 2 weeks (waking up, gasping for air is - not fun.) My lung capacity has not completely recovered in 7 months and I have daily fights with the "brain fog" (insert joke here). So - I didn't die - but I do actually think it's caused some long-term damage...

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Age and weight are the biggest factors.


Aug 20, 2021, 10:25 AM
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But, overall.....

2,507,105 Americans have been hospitalized in the US from a total of 36,268,057 positive cases. So, overall, if you're a human being who tested positive in the US and no other factors withstanding, you have slightly more than a 1 in 15 chance of being hospitalized.

Is that serious? Depends. if you're under 18, no. Older you go above 18yo, the more serious it is.

Here are some charts.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#covidnet-hospitalization-network


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Tough times create strong men.
Strong men create easy times.
Easy times create weak men.
Weak men create tough times.


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