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All-In [36448]
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I think we should move on from Brownell.
Jan 16, 2022, 12:14 PM
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Unless mediocrity is the goal.
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110%er [6119]
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Re: I think we should move on from Brownell.
Jan 16, 2022, 12:17 PM
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Actually when mediocrity is your goal it means you don’t have any goals.
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Oculus Spirit [90239]
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Sadly but Yep..
Jan 16, 2022, 12:19 PM
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he’s a super great young man and plays by the book But it comes down to Wins & Loses in Life and many a super nice person has had to be relieved of his/her job.
Saying..$2.6,000,000 a year should be plenty incentive to succeed..
plus spending $68,000,000 on LJ improvements in 2015/6 to help his program physically look better architecturally didn’t pay off with better recruits, more fans, more wins overall OR his ability to win close games.
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All-In [43549]
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It’s incredible that you expect him to succeed more than he has
Jan 16, 2022, 1:49 PM
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with Clemson’s pathetic funding of basketball.
Again, we are toward the bottom of the ACC in the money we spend on basketball.
Why do you think you have a right to expect more from our paltry investment?
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Legend [16035]
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We have solid players that can win ballgames today.
Jan 16, 2022, 2:11 PM
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Kudos to Brownell for bringing in talent. Since more money won't make him coach better, unless he's been sandbagging us, you can only mean that more money means we would have better players than we have now, which isn't exactly how I would measure 'support' for a team. It's like CBB normally does throwing his guys under the bus after a tough loss - you toss them under a bus as a testament to not enough money and resources or we would have better guys replacing them and win more.
Now that the gravy train caboose is in sight, maybe Brad will crank it up a notch and put together a season-ending run for the ages.
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All-In [43549]
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Brad doesn’t throw his players under the bus.
Jan 16, 2022, 2:16 PM
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After several losses this year, including last night’s, he took responsibility and said that it’s on him.
Brad saying that we didn’t make enough shots or something to that effect is not throwing his players under the bus.
If that’s what you call throwing players under the bus, where was your critique of Dabo when he said that we lost because we didn’t execute?
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Orange Blooded [2394]
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OK, it's on him . .doesn;t mean
Jan 16, 2022, 5:43 PM
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its acceptable. You pay for an expert. 2.6 isn't enough to get an expert? I think so.
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All-TigerNet [10822]
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Dabo didn’t have great facilities when he took over
Jan 16, 2022, 2:32 PM
[ in reply to It’s incredible that you expect him to succeed more than he has ] |
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He built a successful program that afforded lots of upgrades to our football facilities.
Why does it have to be the chicken before the egg? There are coaches that succeed in basketball at smaller schools than Clemson. We need to build a reputation for winning basketball and putting guys in the league. All that $$$ will Follow.
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Legend [16045]
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CU Guru [1504]
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Re: It’s incredible that you expect him to succeed more than he has
Jan 16, 2022, 2:41 PM
[ in reply to It’s incredible that you expect him to succeed more than he has ] |
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This same response is getting funnier and funnier and hope you realize no one takes it serious… you literally make zero sense with this BS defending at this point … and the sad part is iv ever partially defended you in the past..
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110%er [7169]
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$60 million into the basketball program is pathetic in what
Jan 16, 2022, 4:24 PM
[ in reply to It’s incredible that you expect him to succeed more than he has ] |
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way?? Holy #### man! You were as vocal about our mediocre coaches in football this year, yet you can't turn that same scrying glass onto Brownell? Dude...
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110%er [5355]
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Re: I think we should move on from Brownell.
Jan 16, 2022, 12:58 PM
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Please correct my winning percentages if they are incorrect. I found the following…
Oliver Purcell. .611 Rick Barnes. .607 Bill Foster. .595 Cliff Ellis. .580 Brad Brownell. .573 Tates Locke. .455 Larry Shyatt. .455
Coach K. .765. For comparison
I watched the Duke game yesterday. Cameron indoor holds just a couple hundred more than Littlejohn. So to me facilities are not an issue. Also, Clemson had a great, energetic crowd at the game last night. So fan interest is there. Something needs to happen to change the trajectory of the program. The new AD is on the clock to fix basketball.
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All-Pro [698]
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Re: I think we should move on from Brownell.
Jan 16, 2022, 1:24 PM
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Please correct my winning percentages if they are incorrect. I found the following…
Oliver Purcell. .611 Rick Barnes. .607 Bill Foster. .595 Cliff Ellis. .580 Brad Brownell. .573 Tates Locke. .455 Larry Shyatt. .455
Coach K. .765. For comparison
I watched the Duke game yesterday. Cameron indoor holds just a couple hundred more than Littlejohn. So to me facilities are not an issue. Also, Clemson had a great, energetic crowd at the game last night. So fan interest is there. Something needs to happen to change the trajectory of the program. The new AD is on the clock to fix basketball.
To add insult to injury, the ACC is about as weak as it has ever been with expansion and the down years at all the NC schools that historically have been strong. We are not facing the quality in conference that past coaches have had to contend with.
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All-In [36448]
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Walk-On [123]
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Re: I think we should move on from Brownell.
Jan 16, 2022, 4:02 PM
[ in reply to Re: I think we should move on from Brownell. ] |
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Please correct my winning percentages if they are incorrect. I found the following…
Oliver Purcell. .611 Rick Barnes. .607 Bill Foster. .595 Cliff Ellis. .580 Brad Brownell. .573 Tates Locke. .455 Larry Shyatt. .455
Coach K. .765. For comparison
I watched the Duke game yesterday. Cameron indoor holds just a couple hundred more than Littlejohn. So to me facilities are not an issue. Also, Clemson had a great, energetic crowd at the game last night. So fan interest is there. Something needs to happen to change the trajectory of the program. The new AD is on the clock to fix basketball.
The winning percentage list is insightful.....
Oliver Purnell left 'in the middle of the night' for DePaul. Yes....let that sink in....DePaul.
Rick Barnes, having made disparaging remarks about our public school system on his way out of Clemson, went to Texas. Seemingly tired of dealing with the inertia of ACC attitudes toward Clemson and our 'place' in the ACC.
Fighting for some upward mobility in the ACC seems to have just exhausted Bill Foster. Went to Miami. Did a great job at Clemson. Think he may have started (or restarted) the program at Miami.
Cliff Ellis, as I remember, sort of had to leave. Did a decent job for us as HC. But....sort of had to leave....
Tates Locke.....really!? Just really? Guess we can thank Tates for the NCAA Probation in the mid-1970s. Read or heard that when Tates Locke got the HC job for us...he said the basketball program had 3....THREE.....basketballs....in total. May have been Bobby Roberts who made that comment....
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Orange Blooded [2465]
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Ya think? It’s like Groundhog Day
Jan 16, 2022, 1:11 PM
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It’s a broken record playing in my head. I’ve been saying to fire his az for… what is it… 8 years now? I’m definitely losing count. Somehow he is still our coach. It’s mind-boggling and past the point of me caring any more. It’s actually comical at this point.
However, stuff happens in basketball. Coach Izzo and #10 MSU lost at home yesterday. They were also double digit favorites over Northwestern.
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All-In [36448]
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I was a freshman at college of Charleston when we hired him…
Jan 16, 2022, 2:21 PM
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That’s how long it’s been. I’ve since gotten an MBA from Clemson. The man has had enough time.
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All-In [43549]
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Are you willing to provide the program more than mediocre financial and fan support?
Jan 16, 2022, 1:30 PM
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Wanting to be really good while telling yourself that we provide the program plenty of resources for that to happen is insane.
It’s literally what Clemson has always done.
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All-TigerNet [11020]
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Yes we have a basketball guy for the AD now
Jan 16, 2022, 1:35 PM
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He wants to win and will give the new coach what he wants...
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All-In [43549]
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How about giving the current coach what he wants?
Jan 16, 2022, 2:06 PM
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Brad has shown that he overachieves almost every year.
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110%er [9587]
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What do you want?
1
Jan 16, 2022, 2:12 PM
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I mean…what does he want?
Be specific.
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Legend [16035]
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Re: How about giving the current coach what he wants?
Jan 16, 2022, 3:17 PM
[ in reply to How about giving the current coach what he wants? ] |
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Brad only overachieves according to ACC beat writer pre-season polls and actual league finishing standings. A primary reason why we are picked low is that we are so far off the radar in terms of program notoriety or promotion that we don't really garner any scrutiny. We have been a non-entity under Brown L. Even the most modest of fans here would expect more than 3 NCAA tournament appearances in 12 years, and a pulse in ACC tourneys. Outside of lazy sportswriters that statement is nutsville.
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110%er [5344]
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Legend [16035]
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110%er [7630]
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110%er [5355]
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Re: Are you willing to provide the program more than mediocre financial and fan support?
Jan 16, 2022, 2:01 PM
[ in reply to Are you willing to provide the program more than mediocre financial and fan support? ] |
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Absolutely. That is why I am a long time IPTAY donor. I do not agree that the program has been provided mediocre support. A lot money has been spent on basketball to upgrade and add new facilities. The new AD has the responsibility to get both basketball programs on more competitive footing. If I am Brownell or Butler, I would be singing like a canary if I needed something.
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Letterman [257]
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Re: Are you willing to provide the program more than mediocre financial and fan support?
Jan 16, 2022, 2:21 PM
[ in reply to Are you willing to provide the program more than mediocre financial and fan support? ] |
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It’s pretty obvious JK. Clemson will never be a basketball school. Clemson is a football school. Just like South Carolina is neither a mens basketball or football school, they are a women’s basketball school.
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All-Conference [400]
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Re: Are you willing to provide the program more than mediocre financial and fan support?
Jan 16, 2022, 3:52 PM
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It’s pretty obvious JK. Clemson will never be a basketball school. Clemson is a football school. Just like South Carolina is neither a mens basketball or football school, they are a women’s basketball school.
This is so incredibly dumb.
Alabama, Ohio State, and Michigan are all good at both.
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CU Medallion [57939]
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Welcome to 2016!***
Jan 16, 2022, 1:46 PM
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Orange Blooded [2617]
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Okay, who do we go get?
Jan 16, 2022, 2:27 PM
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And don't give me the "Dabo" of college bb because unless someone has some magic ball that predicts the future, you don't typically catch lightning twice in a bottle.
We got LUCKY that Dabo had enough time to work out -- plenty admit today that there were major doubts with him running the show til we started to get hot as a program.
Say Brownell gets fired after this year -- the next coach goes similar to how Dabo started (Bball equivalent):
Season 1) 16-15 -- (Dabo won 1 game over .500 as interim)
Season 2) 21-10 -- NIT appearance
==> Win 1 game and we're out in NIT -- Dabo won 9 games so .69% winning percentage and adjusted for winning a lower tier bowl game with NIT appearance and win)
Season 3) 15-16 (6-7 year equivalent for Dabo)
Going purely off the "best is standard" -- Are you giving the coach a 4th year?
Reason I ask is that, although not to us fans, but by media expectations, Brownell finishes above expectations almost every year.
Does that mean I'm in love with what we could say is the Tommy Bowden of Basketball and think he needs a lifetime contract?
No -- I want to see us field a competitive team and win games we should -- (especially when we're up by 23 in the 1st and despite the other team being within 7 at half time despite the big lead at one point) -- but the next hire needs to be right if we're going to elevate the program if you can Brownell.
I mean, look at the Lady Tigers for instance. We had high hopes for A. Butler who seemed to have momentum and now most games are blowout losses.
OP left just early enough to make folks believe that he was a great coach for some reason despite never moving past the 1st round of the NCAA Tourney.
Sorry, but OP was okay and I doubt he was going to do much more with the program moving forward.
How did OP fare after leaving Clemson?
DePaul: 54-105.
0 NCAA Tourney victories all time as a HC.
His 2 feats BB hasn't been able to top was 1 ACC Champ appearance and three straight NCAA Tourney appearances (all 1st round knockouts).
Overall, should we try to do better?
Absolutely!
But playing musical chairs with coaches if we use the "best is standard" mantra would probably lead to similar if not worse results in a sport that's traditionally not had major support outside of brief periods of success.
TLDR --
1. We should strive to be the best we can in all Clemson sports.
2. If you fire Brownell, you better get it right to elevate the program and not send it backwards.
3. OP nostalgia is happier thinking than the actual results of his career here. --0 NCAA Tourney wins despite 3 appearances --1 ACC Champ appearance
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All-TigerNet [10822]
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When has a Clemson basketball coach not gotten
Jan 16, 2022, 2:36 PM
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The 4th year ?
They’ll give whoever it is 6 years. We’ve seen plenty of crap basketball
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Orange Blooded [4001]
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Re: Okay, who do we go get?
Jan 16, 2022, 2:55 PM
[ in reply to Okay, who do we go get? ] |
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12 years is plenty to see if the coach is a program builder or not. To decide if he can take it to a new level or not. To see if he connects to the fans and students or not. To decide if he can up the level of recruiting. To find if he brings excitement to Littlejohn and puts people in the seats.
Someone who is biased makes the case that simply paying him more money will do the job. Every study shows that money is not a true motivator. Either you work hard or you don’t. Money simply locks people in from leaving. After 12 years and still here, obviously not an issue. He makes a case that since Clemson spends less than some others - we DESERVE to be mediocre and lose like we did yesterday. I contend we deserve an energetic coach who connects with students, fans, and people with deep pockets and when he puts excitement and wins on the board, then they write checks - like Dabo did. You don’t over pay and then hope money solves the problem.
To be honest and direct - right now - I would take a shot on any exciting coach. I don’t need a name. I want fun back, a offense that values an inside game, plays designed when outside shots are not going in. I don’t want to lose, but I would rather lose for a year or two before then moving forward - than keep finishing in the middle of the pack and getting more posts from someone who defends 12 years of it - blaming everything on money. Who takes cheap shots at the football team and players like a petulant child when he won’t address the failings of the BB coach. Two weeks ago he posted that the offensive linemen should “shut up”. We should never ever get personal about players. Coaches get paid to build - win games. Don’t give me the crud of we are getting value. BS. You either can build or not. Simple. Give someone else a shot.
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Replies: 31
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