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Orange Immortal [65796]
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Another pole ... College Football
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Sep 1, 2024, 3:41 PM
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Are you really okay with Clemson football becoming nothing but an NFL minor league team, in which players aren't even students, just paid dudes who happen to be wearing a Clemson uniform, but not sharing in the real student experience, whose only connection to the university is that uniform?
Or, would you prefer a team made up of real Clemson students, who are serious students meeting the same exact quaulifications and standards as every other regular student who are in pursuit of a degree, sharing in the total student experience?
Also, this is a hypothetical question based on the assumption that both options are entirely possible. If your answer is "THIS IS A STOOPID QUESTION BECAUSE THAT SHIP HAS ALREADY SAILED" or "A TEAM MADE UP OF REAL STUDENTS HAS NEVER BEEN A REALITY, AND IT'S NOT WHAT WE HAVE NOW" then keep your pie-hole shut, because I'm not talking to you.
Which is it? [Results]
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I'm fine with a Clemson football team made up of paid payers who are not students, as long as we win. |
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I am only interested if our team is made up of legitimate students pursuing a degree, who are not here for pay. |
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Ultimate Tiger [33413]
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Re: Another pole ... College Football
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Sep 1, 2024, 4:00 PM
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Why would a program not use every tool available to win?
It is asinine not to.
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Orange Immortal [65796]
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Not saying there is; you're missing the point.
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Sep 1, 2024, 4:13 PM
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Nothing wrong with it as long as you believe in the basic premise of what you are doing. If you think colleges should be nothing more than sponsors of professional teams, then there's nothing wrong with that.
If you believe in the idea of amateur athletics and/or real colligiate athletics then there is a conflict.
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Ring of Honor [22788]
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Re: Not saying there is; you're missing the point.
Sep 1, 2024, 4:16 PM
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Let's face it, your second paragraph no longer exists...
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Orange Immortal [65796]
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Re: Not saying there is; you're missing the point.
Sep 1, 2024, 4:19 PM
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From my original post:
Also, this is a hypothetical question based on the assumption that both options are entirely possible. If your answer is "THIS IS A STOOPID QUESTION BECAUSE THAT SHIP HAS ALREADY SAILED" or "A TEAM MADE UP OF REAL STUDENTS HAS NEVER BEEN A REALITY, AND IT'S NOT WHAT WE HAVE NOW" then keep your pie-hole shut, because I'm not talking to you.
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Varsity [104]
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"Amateur athletics"???
Sep 1, 2024, 6:28 PM
[ in reply to Not saying there is; you're missing the point. ] |
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"Nowhere else in America can businesses get away with agreeing not to pay their workers a fair market rate on the theory that their product is defined by not paying their workers a fair market rate
Under ordinary principles of antitrust law, it is not evident why college sports should be any different."
"The NCAA is not above the law."
SCOTUS Justice Brett Kavanaugh
Concurring opinion
NCAA vs Alston
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Hall of Famer [9078]
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How many more times you going yo post this nonsensical drivel?***
Sep 1, 2024, 8:35 PM
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Orange Immortal [65796]
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I wouldn't even mind players getting paid a % of profits by the school, as long
Sep 1, 2024, 9:37 PM
[ in reply to "Amateur athletics"??? ] |
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as all players are legitimate students carrying a full load of classes, and stayed on track to graduate. This idea of having players who are not students interested in an education or the college experience, thus having no real connection to the school they represent oter than a paycheck, and instead are hired guns working for the highest bidder, is what I'm mainly against. That's not college football.
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1st Rounder [635]
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Re: Another pole ... College Football
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Sep 1, 2024, 4:19 PM
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I’m fine with it as long as that’s what college football becomes. I just don’t want to see Clemson get left behind
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Orange Immortal [65796]
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Re: Another pole ... College Football
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Sep 1, 2024, 4:26 PM
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I don't want to be "left behind" either, and I completely understand the reality. The question for me (and all of us) is "how do I feel about it?", and "if I don't like it, what can be done about it?".
To me, that's not college football at all. It's professional football, which is very different on many levels, and which I don't like nearly as much as college football in general. and Clemson football in particular. Paying professionals who are not students to wear college uniforms is NOT college football.
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1st Rounder [635]
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Re: Another pole ... College Football
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Sep 1, 2024, 4:49 PM
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Well personally, I miss the old days. We’d be talking about Dabo as one of the greatest coaches of all time and our program would be embraced as a true blue blood.But like they say,the toothpaste is out the tube I’m afraid.
The best chance was the NCAA coming in and punishing programs who used NIL as a means to lure players in. But I believe they tried(like in the Tennessee case) and were sued and bailed.
I do believe that’s an aspect that’s not often mentioned. Dabo wasn’t an idiot to believe the NCAA would step in and make changes. He just miscalculated that they would lose all power and he has been slow to adjust
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Orange Immortal [65796]
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I don't disagree, and I think Dabo will leave when it's clear that it's
Sep 1, 2024, 5:53 PM
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professional and the student-athlete aspect is entirely antiquated and irrelevant. I don't blame him one bit, as I will have little interest at that point as well.
I think we are headed to a point where some colleges will go for the money (can't blame them) and become a minor league for the NFL, while others will form a new version of the NCAA and ban pay-for-play, and once again emphasize the student-athlete.
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Varsity [104]
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The NCAA went after Tennessee because they looked like an easy target.
Sep 1, 2024, 6:39 PM
[ in reply to Re: Another pole ... College Football ] |
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They had gotten rid of Jeremy Pruitt by the show cause after the paying players investigation.
Tennessee used the NCAA and cooperated because the fine was less than what it saved them compared to paying Pruitt's buyout.
Then the NCAA went after UT again for Nico Iamaleava (sp) recruitment and NIL.
UT wasn't soft. The went on an all fronts offensive. Their chancellor was ready and already had the lawyers lined up. Their state attorney general was in board and had the federal case ready. They had a PR blitz ready. They came out prepared and with all hubs blazing.
It only took them about 6 weeks to get the injunction that prevents the NCAA from interfering with it or trying to regulate NIL in any way.
The motion about the injunction showed that not only was the NCAA engaging in illegal conduct, but that the rule were allegedly enforcing didn't exist when the allegedly violation occured.
"The best defense is a good offense".
Vince Lombardi
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All-In [10144]
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Re: Another pole ... College Football
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Sep 1, 2024, 4:33 PM
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I don’t care if the entire ball team has a collective IQ under 80, if they can play ball pay them and let’s win
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Orange Immortal [65796]
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The student-athlete aspect that differentiates college from professional is
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Sep 1, 2024, 4:44 PM
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not important to you, or many others. That's fine, that's your prerogative. To me, it's a critical difference that should be preserved.
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CU Medallion [20966]
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Seriously
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Sep 1, 2024, 8:04 PM
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Where is the line between the "tutors" and the "students" with more than half of the football team earning honors? More than the general student population? So many assignments are now on-line tests and papers with answers available online.
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Orange Immortal [65796]
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Legit points!***
Sep 1, 2024, 9:24 PM
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Head Coach [965]
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Re: Another pole ... College Football
Sep 1, 2024, 4:52 PM
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Your describing changing College football as a whole, which I support. However, until College Football is regulated we will continue to decline. I don't like the modern reality of college athletics as it currently stands. However, to not attempt to compete using the same rules as every other school is ridiculous. It's only harming Clemson, not fixing the system.
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Scout Team [88]
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Re: Another pole ... College Football
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Sep 1, 2024, 5:44 PM
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Why is it worth that much money to win a completely phony “college” football championship? When people brag about their team now ALL they are saying is that their rich alumni bought a better team than the other guy’s rich alumni. And even Alabama, Texas, OSU etc are only allowed to win because the Ivy League doesn’t care anymore. If they did, they could move up to FBS and immediately dominate the SEC, Big 10 etc. simply because they’re richer and nobody could do a #### thing about it.
So why even care anymore?
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Orange Immortal [65796]
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Exactly. The big money will win most of the time.
Sep 1, 2024, 5:56 PM
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Actually, they already do. It will just get even harder for any outside of the top 30 wealthiest schools to compete.
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Rival Killer [2875]
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Re: Another pole ... College Football
Sep 1, 2024, 6:27 PM
[ in reply to Re: Another pole ... College Football ] |
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We’re paying the head coach almost 12M. Pretty sure Clemson still thinks it’s worth spending money to win football games.
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Orange Immortal [62894]
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Re: Another pole ... College Football
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Sep 1, 2024, 4:59 PM
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Honestly, as long as most are buying players, if we could afford to do the same, I say do it, but the fact is we can't afford to buy a team that could be capable of beating all others, and that is our set back with being in such a small city like Clemson is in...
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Rival Killer [2875]
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Re: Another pole ... College Football
Sep 1, 2024, 5:02 PM
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Then we need to form a new league with us and the service academies and just play them. Because every team on our schedule is involved in this NFL minor league you speak of.
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1st Rounder [635]
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Re: Another pole ... College Football
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Sep 1, 2024, 5:05 PM
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This would be the only other option but I don’t want Clemson to be obsolete in the college football world. I love it too much
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Recruit [65]
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Re: Another pole ... College Football
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Sep 1, 2024, 5:09 PM
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I would rather see Clemson play guys that want to be at Clemson. If that means only winning 7-8 games a year that’s fine. You have to have some type of moral standard if not then winning is meaningless
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Rival Killer [2875]
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Re: Another pole ... College Football
Sep 1, 2024, 5:17 PM
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A transfer player coming to Clemson is choosing to be at Clemson. He may have chosen elsewhere at some point, but now choosing Clemson. Sort of like a recruit who has previously committed somewhere else and changes his mind and now commits to Clemson.
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CU Guru [1580]
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Re: Another pole ... College Football
Sep 1, 2024, 6:19 PM
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LOL... then why do they have a price tag by their name?
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Head Coach [965]
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Re: Another pole ... College Football
Sep 1, 2024, 5:20 PM
[ in reply to Re: Another pole ... College Football ] |
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Like it or not, in sports everything revolves around winning. Dabo wouldn't have his job or contract if he didn't win games. A constant 7 win program won't be able to provide the support for the athletic department and other sports programs as a whole.
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Scout Team [88]
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Re: Another pole ... College Football
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Sep 1, 2024, 5:47 PM
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There are lots of programs that win less than that and still have great athletic programs.
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Scout Team [88]
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Re: Another pole ... College Football
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Sep 1, 2024, 5:35 PM
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I didn’t go to Clemson (Furman & Ole Miss) but I kind of hope CU doesn’t go fully pro. It says something about your school when your richest grads would rather spend millions to employ players in Clemson helmets than to maybe send it to St. Jude’s or something. If you think about it, it’s pretty appalling.
Ole Miss has gone all in, and I’m a little embarrassed.
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Orange Immortal [65796]
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When it's just players who are paid to wear your schools helmet, it's NOT
Sep 1, 2024, 6:00 PM
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college football anymore. I would have little interest anymore.
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CU Guru [1573]
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Re: Another pole ... College Football
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Sep 1, 2024, 6:04 PM
[ in reply to Re: Another pole ... College Football ] |
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Option 2. We may never get back to there, but I see a scenario where this thing collapses due to "less interest." Not lack of interest, but declining interest, leading to lower TV contracts, NIL contributors seeing no return or loyalty, etc. I look forward to watching that unfold.
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Head Coach [938]
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Re: Another pole ... College Football
Sep 1, 2024, 6:24 PM
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Are you all saying that Clemson is too pure for this new world of college football?
You do realize that the we are desperately suing the ACC so we can get to a new super conference where we will have to be all in on these practices to even be a regular 8 win team?
If staying pure is most important thing, we really should just stay in the ACC, maybe Miami will take our place in the lawsuit!
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Varsity [104]
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Why do you want to exploit athletes?
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Sep 1, 2024, 6:27 PM
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It's disgusting. 🤮🤮🤮
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All-American [576]
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To answer the original question, I would take a team
Sep 1, 2024, 6:53 PM
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of true college students over the professional model. That is of course if that’s what everybody else was doing. Let the NFL develop their own players. I’m just getting tired of what it’s all become. Right now we are just pretending it’s college football.
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Varsity [117]
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Too long blah blah blah***
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Sep 1, 2024, 8:37 PM
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