|
Replies: 18
| visibility 305
|
All-TigerNet [5946]
TigerPulse: 99%
39
|
Caden Grice/Billy Amick substitution question?
2
Jun 6, 2023, 9:57 AM
|
|
First off. Love what Bakich did this year and you can't downplay how big it was to get the ACC Championship especially after our start.
But I was wondering, when Caden Grice was taken out and shifted to first was it possible to shift Amick to another position like outfield? I assume he couldn't be shifted to DH because I know they would have done that if possible. And I'm not sure if Amick has any experience in outfield but you would assume he could man that position if absolutely needed. Could Amick have been shifted to outfield there if Bakich wanted too? Gotta think at some point he would have come through in extra innings.
|
|
|
|
 |
Game Changer [1977]
TigerPulse: 90%
31
|
Re: Caden Grice/Billy Amick substitution question?
3
Jun 6, 2023, 10:00 AM
|
|
Could he? Yes, but someone else would have had to leave the game. I don't understand why he didn't just leave Caden in the game as DH and keep Amick at first. Caden is a good first baseman but I don't think his defense at first is valuable enough to take Amick's bat out of the lineup.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clemson Icon [26977]
TigerPulse: 100%
54
Posts: 10222
Joined: 2015
|
Re: Caden Grice/Billy Amick substitution question?
Jun 6, 2023, 10:12 AM
|
|
I believe when pitching Grice, he was in the batting order as pitcher, and thus no DH. Therefore, when he was pulled as pitcher, you are ‘evidently’ (rules expert fact check required - I do not know this for sure) not allowed to insert a DH into the lineup, but must keep the pitcher in the batting order.
Really makes pitching Grice a challenge (if I’m right on that rule).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Game Changer [1977]
TigerPulse: 90%
31
|
Re: Caden Grice/Billy Amick substitution question?
Jun 6, 2023, 11:02 AM
|
|
Your pitcher can be the DH in the college game. We did exactly that in the game against Charlotte. We've done it all year when Caden pitches. It's not decided at the beginning of the game, it's decided at the point in time you remove the pitcher from the mound. You can either move him to the field or declare he's staying in as the DH.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-Conference [446]
TigerPulse: 100%
17
|
Re: Caden Grice/Billy Amick substitution question?
Jun 6, 2023, 12:41 PM
|
|
I don't think Grice was a DH when he was pitching. I think he was just a pitcher hitting for himself. I don't think you can classify as both simultaneously. Therefore, you either remove Grice from the lineup altogether or you move him to another position. Only logical place was 1B. In hindsight someone else at 1B and Amick DH'ing for Jarrell may have been a better scenario but that's not what we've done all year. Grice to RF and Cooper to catcher would have worked as well. Had it been a one run game or tied that's probably what happens. We were up by 3 with 2 outs and Bakich believed Ammons was about to end it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Paw Master [16338]
TigerPulse: 98%
51
Posts: 18820
Joined: 2009
|
Hindsight, Caden to OF, Ingle to Catcher, Amick at first
1
Jun 6, 2023, 10:14 AM
[ in reply to Re: Caden Grice/Billy Amick substitution question? ] |
|
but I think we were just trying to win the game in the 9th and Grice is the best defensive first baseman.
That play he made in the 11th, no chance Amick makes. But maybe the game doesn't get to the 11th with Amick's bat. Who knows.
The other obvious hindsight question is just let Grice finish the game pitching. But again, easy to say now.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [8201]
TigerPulse: 100%
43
Posts: 16073
Joined: 2001
|
Amick doesn’t make the play Caden made diving for the
Jun 6, 2023, 10:31 AM
[ in reply to Re: Caden Grice/Billy Amick substitution question? ] |
|
bag for the 3rd out whatever inning that was. Don’t know the outfield possibilities with Amick. My question for future similar situations, could you not start Amick as DH/Pitcher and pitch 1 pitch or even take the mound and not throw a pitch and then switch with Grice at first? That way if Grice moves to first and Amick is still the DH and can bat???
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-Conference [446]
TigerPulse: 100%
17
|
Re: Amick doesn’t make the play Caden made diving for the
1
Jun 6, 2023, 10:40 AM
|
|
The only way a DH can be in the lineup is if he is declared the DH when the lineup is submitted. If you start with a DH you have to end with one or you have to pinch hit every time that position comes to bat. The DH is a hitting only position that is a replacement for someone on the field. You cannot add it mid game. It has to be "designated" beforehand.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [8201]
TigerPulse: 100%
43
Posts: 16073
Joined: 2001
|
I think you're missing my point/question - in the scenario I
Jun 6, 2023, 10:58 AM
|
|
am asking about. Amick is a Pitcher but designated as DH(believe only pitchers can be designated as such). This would obviously be done prior to the game. Grice would start at 1B. Amick would throw a single pitch(if even that is required) and then Grice would move to the mound and Amick to first. When Grice tires, you move him to 1st and Amick comes out. Grice is still batting as the 1b as he has been since the start of the game. Amick is still the DH so shouldn't he be able to bat or is there something preventing that?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Game Changer [1977]
TigerPulse: 90%
31
|
Re: I think you're missing my point/question - in the scenario I
Jun 6, 2023, 11:10 AM
|
|
As soon as you move Amick to 1B he loses the DH designation and thus your team loses the DH position. The DH cannot be a field player at any position other than pitcher.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [8201]
TigerPulse: 100%
43
Posts: 16073
Joined: 2001
|
ok - thanks- that answers it***
Jun 6, 2023, 11:14 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Game Changer [1977]
TigerPulse: 90%
31
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [8201]
TigerPulse: 100%
43
Posts: 16073
Joined: 2001
|
still doesn't answer my hypothetical***
Jun 6, 2023, 11:13 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rival Killer [2941]
TigerPulse: 96%
33
|
I would have moved Grice or Amick to RF. Other plays 1st. Ingle to C
4
Jun 6, 2023, 10:01 AM
|
|
Jarrel is a liability at the plate and keeping him in and pulling Amick was a huge mistake but live & learn
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [3766]
TigerPulse: 100%
35
|
Re: I would have moved Grice or Amick to RF. Other plays 1st. Ingle to C
Jun 6, 2023, 10:28 AM
|
|
Do they have to give Ingle time to suit up to play catcher?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Game Day Hero [4348]
TigerPulse: 100%
36
|
Re: I would have moved Grice or Amick to RF. Other plays 1st. Ingle to C
Jun 6, 2023, 10:39 AM
|
|
I think the key limitation is that you can’t create the DH position during a game. Thus, the pitcher has to remain in the lineup where a player was removed. In this case Amick’s spot. I don’t know the rules but I would think you could shift fielders around such as Ingle to catcher and Amick to RF. However, maybe they have a rule a catcher can only be switched during an inning due to injury? That would certainly make sense given the initiatives to speed up the game.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Game Changer [1977]
TigerPulse: 90%
31
|
Re: I would have moved Grice or Amick to RF. Other plays 1st. Ingle to C
Jun 6, 2023, 11:37 AM
|
|
In college ball if the pitcher is batting for himself he's automatically considered P/DH. You never start a college game without a DH.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [6091]
TigerPulse: 72%
39
|
|
|
|
|
|
Head Coach [978]
TigerPulse: 98%
24
|
Re: Caden Grice/Billy Amick substitution question?
Jun 6, 2023, 11:06 AM
|
|
www.baseballrulesacademy.com/official-rule/ncaa/ncaa-7-2-designated-hitter/
When Grice pitches and hits, he is BOTH the pitcher and the designated hitter, by rule. (See link above.)
In short, Amick could have remained in the game at first base and Grice could have remained in the lineup as the designated hitter (this is what was done for a large majority of Grice’s starts this season). The move to put Grice in the field defensively kills the DH and requires someone in the field to come out. Bakich made the choice for it to be Amick, one I’m sure he later regretted, as Amick’s spot appeared an additional three times in extra innings.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 18
| visibility 305
|
|
|
50
