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Replies: 46
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CU Medallion [18456]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Posts: 11978
Joined: 2007
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Dear recruiting paranoiacs
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Dec 5, 2024, 12:32 AM
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Per 247 composite we have 52 4/5* players on the roster (7-5*, 45-4*) and an average player value of 90.89 (5th in the country). Just barely off of our all-time high of 91.35 average from 2021. We won a title in 2018 with 46 4/5* players (90.23 average) and in 2016 with 39 4/5* players with an average of 88.91. Maybe recruiting rankings are garbage if the last 4 years are the highest combined 4 years of talent (by this metric) in Clemson history. Maybe having to dig a little deeper and not landing obviously overrated players might actually be in our best interest.
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Game Changer [1801]
TigerPulse: 88%
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Fwiw, there are now tiers within..
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Dec 5, 2024, 12:50 AM
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4 ★ prospects, maybe 3★s as well, as 2★s are now almost non-existent-
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CU Medallion [18456]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Posts: 11978
Joined: 2007
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Re: Fwiw, there are now tiers within..
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Dec 5, 2024, 2:33 AM
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Which is why I included the exact average player score. The same system that says we’re having a bad recruiting year, says the 2024 teams is the 3rd best Clemson team in history. So the coach who took lesser teams to six straight playoffs has forgotten everything he knows about coaching or there are stark diminishing returns past a certain point.
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Ring of Honor [22709]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Posts: 13365
Joined: 2018
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Re: Fwiw, there are now tiers within..
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Dec 5, 2024, 5:57 AM
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What gets left out of the formula is how the players actually performed once they hit college. DJ was highly graded in HS but a clear bust in college. Those championship years were loaded with players who lived up to their rankings.
And then there is coaching and development which I would say was far superior in our heyday.
I just see little favorable comparisons now vs. then.
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Game Changer [1801]
TigerPulse: 88%
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We have the 10th highest Bluechip Ratio...
Dec 8, 2024, 10:39 PM
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at 64% but that doesn't factor transfer additions for which we have none. Texas is around 6th with a 72% ratio.
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Fan [31]
TigerPulse: 59%
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Tiger Titan [50729]
TigerPulse: 79%
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Posts: 37006
Joined: 2003
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Yes, absolutely. Coaching is our problem.***
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Dec 6, 2024, 10:32 AM
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All-Pro [714]
TigerPulse: 100%
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National Champion [7628]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Fwiw, there are now tiers within..
Dec 5, 2024, 2:32 PM
[ in reply to Fwiw, there are now tiers within.. ] |
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That is correct Parts.......I heard a talking head say on air the other night that a player was "an unrated 3 star in hs"........WHAT?
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Game Changer [1801]
TigerPulse: 88%
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They seem to have started grading on a curve at least a couple of years back****
Dec 5, 2024, 3:38 PM
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All-TigerNet [6090]
TigerPulse: 88%
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Re: Dear recruiting paranoiacs
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Dec 5, 2024, 2:55 AM
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Think of what the 2016 /18 teams could have accomplished if Dabo , in 2014/15 , would had steered away from the Christian Wilkins , Dexter Lawrences , DW, TL etc.
Most coaches seem to mock Dabo and then turn around and try the same methods they mocked later on.
Do not be shocked if these 5 stars in the future end up with zero offers after this catches on!
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CU Medallion [18456]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2007
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Re: Dear recruiting paranoiacs
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Dec 5, 2024, 3:10 AM
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Is that really the point you think was being made? We’ve signed more 5 stars in the last 5 years than in the previous 5. If you can’t see that there is a disconnect happening that’s on you.
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110%er [3885]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Dear recruiting paranoiacs
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Dec 5, 2024, 5:48 AM
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Recruiting comes down to how many super rich alumni you have donating. See Phil Knight at Oregon or the Oracle owner at Michigan. Clemson doesn’t have multi-billionaire alumni donating. We can’t compete because we simply don’t have the money these programs do.
Unless something changes to prevent this, unlikely, this will continue. It’s not Dabo’s fault or Neff fault. Phil Knight is worth 34 billion. Who is Clemson’s richest alumni?
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All-Pro [784]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Dear recruiting paranoiacs
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Dec 5, 2024, 12:27 PM
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Beware drum major….these “super fans” care nothing about the truth.
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Starter [299]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Dear recruiting paranoiacs
Dec 6, 2024, 10:30 AM
[ in reply to Re: Dear recruiting paranoiacs ] |
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It's time to invite Elon Musk to a Clemson football game.
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Tiger Titan [50729]
TigerPulse: 79%
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Posts: 37006
Joined: 2003
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How do we keep recruiting well if it's all about rich alumni
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Dec 6, 2024, 10:33 AM
[ in reply to Re: Dear recruiting paranoiacs ] |
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which you claim we don't have?
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All-TigerNet [5668]
TigerPulse: 100%
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National Champion [7945]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Dear recruiting paranoiacs
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Dec 9, 2024, 5:55 AM
[ in reply to Re: Dear recruiting paranoiacs ] |
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Michigan also has the Dolphins owner who is worth billions.
Clemson doesn’t have these guys. There needs to be 2 leagues- one “open spending” for the SEC and B1G, and the other with more moderate payouts. Then I will quit watching the the open spending teams, and let Clemson return to something more like the college football before NIL.
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Ring of Honor [22313]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Posts: 18028
Joined: 2005
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Or maybe, as I'm sure you know, smaller classes
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Dec 5, 2024, 6:06 AM
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always rank lower, as numbers are part of the calculations. We heard all year this would be a small class, and it was. Target was reported as 17, we signed 15. Most schools are 25-30. Most schools lose far more players than we are projecting to lose this year.
We may see more leave in the portal this year, but we're clearly not expecting that. Likely to be our normal 6-12. We lose 8 for sure who have used up their eligibility. Everyone else can return if they choose to.
It's the maffs that are lacking on TNet. Until they leave, you can't fill their spot. And the ACC still needs to decide on how many scholarships they're going to roll with, as the SEC has in deciding to stick at 85 for 2025.
Now, it's fair to say our average player rating dropped with the decommits. We replaced a higher rated 3 star QB with a lesser rated one, a 4 star S with a 3 star, a 4 star DT with a 3 star, and didn't fill the 2 CB's we lost (honestly, we have a large number of Fr-So there), so I can see being somewhat disappointed. However, this was never going to be a top rated class even with them, as the sheer numbers were never going to be there.
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National Champion [7884]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Dear recruiting paranoiacs
Dec 5, 2024, 6:14 AM
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Going to be interesting to see how many Clemson loses to the portal. I think we will see Clemson bring in some portal players this year.
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Legend [6832]
TigerPulse: 96%
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Re: Dear recruiting paranoiacs
Dec 5, 2024, 2:15 PM
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If we bring in any really good DE or others I’ll do a flip and I’m age 77. Will not believe until I see it.
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Paw Warrior [4822]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: Dear recruiting paranoiacs
Dec 9, 2024, 5:59 AM
[ in reply to Re: Dear recruiting paranoiacs ] |
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Going to be interesting to see how many Clemson loses to the portal. I think we will see Clemson bring in some portal players this year.
That's the key to staying relevant. Sprinkle in some portal players to offset recruiting losses. Why it is being ignored is absolutely 💯 ridiculous.
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Top TigerNet [30606]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Posts: 23099
Joined: 2002
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So the coaches ARE underperforming with on field results .... I knew it !***
Dec 5, 2024, 6:19 AM
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Hall of Famer [8127]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Dear recruiting paranoiacs
Dec 5, 2024, 8:48 AM
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Maybe, but take a look at the win/loss record over the last four years. Perhaps the 247 composite isn't worth much either.
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Game Changer [1627]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Dear recruiting paranoiacs
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Dec 5, 2024, 9:12 AM
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So we’re either chasing stars instead of talent or we can’t develop worth a da*n, either way sounds like a recruiting and coaching issue to me
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Asst Coach [850]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Dear recruiting paranoiacs
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Dec 5, 2024, 9:17 AM
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2025 is the worst ranked recruiting class at Clemson in 15 years.
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Legend [6832]
TigerPulse: 96%
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Re: Dear recruiting paranoiacs
Dec 5, 2024, 2:16 PM
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Are we cycling out?
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Ultimate Tiger [33851]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Posts: 14291
Joined: 2014
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Re: Dear recruiting paranoiacs
Dec 5, 2024, 2:50 PM
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😂😂😂
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Game Changer [1930]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Dear recruiting paranoiacs
Dec 5, 2024, 3:19 PM
[ in reply to Re: Dear recruiting paranoiacs ] |
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I suggest reading the OP. 15 highly rated players. Rankings that factor in sheer number of signees are not apples to apples.
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Paw Warrior [5056]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Agree. Clowns confuse class size with rating.
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Dec 5, 2024, 9:19 AM
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You only have so many scholarships, thus our class size this year was down. You are right on the button.
Would we have liked to sign the ones that got away (other than the Michigan clown) - yes. But we did alright.
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Game Changer [1801]
TigerPulse: 88%
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No we didn't****
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Dec 5, 2024, 11:57 AM
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Game Changer [1801]
TigerPulse: 88%
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No we didn't..
Dec 5, 2024, 12:04 PM
[ in reply to Agree. Clowns confuse class size with rating. ] |
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If we have a higher star rating per player but the other team still signed more 4 and 5 s than we lost the recruiting season. This is the difference this year than in years past.
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Game Changer [1801]
TigerPulse: 88%
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Should have read "then we lost the recruiting season.", not 'than'****
Dec 5, 2024, 3:31 PM
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National Champion [7838]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: Dear recruiting paranoiacs
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Dec 5, 2024, 12:22 PM
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Those national championships came pre portal/NIL era.
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Starter [297]
TigerPulse: 89%
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Re: Dear recruiting paranoiacs
Dec 5, 2024, 2:01 PM
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This is fascinating. I didn’t realize this existed. To be ranked the 5th talented roster in the country is crazy. Makes being 3-9 that much more frustrating
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National Champion [7693]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Dear recruiting paranoiacs
Dec 5, 2024, 2:07 PM
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I do think we got a bit caught up in chasing stars even if the player may not have been a great fit. Hopefully we get back to bringing in guys who want to be here and are willing to develop themselves and wait their turn.
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Legend [6832]
TigerPulse: 96%
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Re: Dear recruiting paranoiacs
Dec 5, 2024, 2:18 PM
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Say hello to Renfrow.
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CU Guru [1537]
TigerPulse: 97%
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I think I may have fat fingered a TD by accident. This should be at 100%
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Dec 5, 2024, 2:34 PM
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Good points viz
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Orange Elite [5173]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Player rankings have for many years felt
Dec 5, 2024, 2:45 PM
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about as dependable as political polls.
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Clemson Icon [25317]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2024
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Re: Player rankings have for many years felt
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Dec 5, 2024, 2:55 PM
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Aside from seeming to work for the teams that have top few classes consistently.
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Game Changer [1801]
TigerPulse: 88%
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That's a fact****
Dec 5, 2024, 5:36 PM
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National Champion [7178]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Dear recruiting paranoiacs
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Dec 5, 2024, 3:25 PM
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I get what you are saying but Clemson won those 2 championships with 2 generational quarterbacks. Clemson don’t have that now!
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Solid Orange [1389]
TigerPulse: 84%
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Re: Dear recruiting paranoiacs
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Dec 5, 2024, 9:20 PM
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First, scores have become artificially inflated in the past 5 years. Players all get higher average ratings. If you look at just our class average this year, year, it's Dabo's sixth best class ever. If you look instead at how our class does compared to everyone else, it's the second lowest ever. So I'd be careful there.
Second, the 247 composite right now includes our seniors, not the incoming freshmen. We're losing 4 of the players they call 5 Stars this year. We'll add 1.
Third, I've learned to take their numbers with a grain of salt, because they make mistake in the star ratings of recruits. For example, this year, they list 5 of our 4 stars (albeit good ones) as 5 Stars: Antonio Williams, Briningstool, Walker Parks, TJ Parker, and Demonte. I think all have ended up being really good, but the fact that they were 4 Stars in all services and the composite but this has them as 5 Stars makes me skeptical they're accurate elsewhere.
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Game Changer [1801]
TigerPulse: 88%
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Spot on****
Dec 6, 2024, 12:52 AM
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Tiger Titan [50729]
TigerPulse: 79%
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Sounds like we have a lot of talent on our roster.
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Dec 6, 2024, 10:31 AM
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We should be better than we have been the last few years.
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CU Medallion [18456]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: Sounds like we have a lot of talent on our roster.
Dec 6, 2024, 11:02 AM
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Pick your narrative please.
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Ring of Honor [23760]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 1995
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Yet we have no running back for the playoffs.***
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Dec 8, 2024, 10:43 PM
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Replies: 46
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