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110%er [6397]
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OL recruiting
Feb 18, 2022, 9:56 AM
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I want to make sure I understand this correctly...
Clemson signed two players that project as OTs, even though we lost none
Clemson signed zero players that project as IOL, even though we lost 3 (Bockhorst, Tchio, Rayburn) and possibly a 4th due to a violation of team rules (Trotter)
Yikes
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All-In [26514]
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You are forgetting about the army of preferred walkons
Feb 18, 2022, 10:04 AM
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that will march onto campus soon.
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110%er [6397]
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Re: You are forgetting about the army of preferred walkons
Feb 18, 2022, 10:45 AM
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Trent Howard or Ryan Linthicum might be All-ACC caliber. Who knows?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: OL recruiting
Feb 18, 2022, 10:12 AM
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Linthicum is 6’4 300, he should be the starter, also highly rated true center.
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110%er [6397]
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Re: OL recruiting
Feb 18, 2022, 10:46 AM
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Linthicum is a redshirt freshmen that hasn't played meaningful snaps in 2 years. I hope that he's ready. The kid clearly has a bright future. However, it doesn't make sense to enter the season with two centers that have virtually no experience. Especially when there are a plethora in the portal.
Competition makes everyone better, amirite?
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All-TigerNet [10822]
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Re: OL recruiting
Feb 18, 2022, 3:45 PM
[ in reply to Re: OL recruiting ] |
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but he hasn't won the job yet for whatever reason...
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Heisman Winner [140551]
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You should work on some new material...
Feb 18, 2022, 10:19 AM
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the relentless recruiting second guessing is kind of stale. No offense intended.
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Orange Blooded [2523]
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Re: You should work on some new material...
Feb 18, 2022, 10:37 AM
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Do you disagree with what he said, or do you not like that he's pointing it out?
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Heisman Winner [140551]
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I said exactly what I meant...
Feb 18, 2022, 10:43 AM
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Whether a point has merit or not, if you lose your audience, your message is lost.
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Heisman Winner [140551]
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And that's the difference between me and "you"...
Feb 18, 2022, 10:49 AM
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I point out what I disagreed with, "you" TD.
Who doesn't like things being pointed out again?
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110%er [6397]
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Re: You should work on some new material...
Feb 18, 2022, 10:44 AM
[ in reply to Re: You should work on some new material... ] |
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They don't like it being pointed out. It's difficult to agree with facts, although, many try.
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Heisman Winner [140551]
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That's where you are wrong...
Feb 18, 2022, 10:47 AM
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and it's exactly why I made my post. You are losing your audience. If you don't care about that, then you actually didn't care about affecting change in the first place, you are doing for another reason.
You do you.
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110%er [6397]
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Re: That's where you are wrong...
Feb 18, 2022, 10:56 AM
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Why would I not point out problems though?
I have been more supportive of DJ than most on this board. I wasn't openly critical of replacing Tony with Streeter. I talked about liking Wes Goodwin when others didn't. I loved replacing Bates with Eason. I always talked about wanting Antonio Williams and was glad when we landed him.
I've also been very critical of the lack of diversity at WR, Dabo's refusal to utilize the portal, the fact that we've regressed three years in a row, and our struggles at recruiting this year.
That's me.
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Heisman Winner [140551]
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I stopped reading at "Why would I not point out problems...
Feb 18, 2022, 11:00 AM
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though?"
That's exactly the point. Keep pointing out the same "problems" over and over and over and... and you run the risk of being labeled a complainer, a whiner, a troll, etc... I have lots of concerns, I'm sure everyone does, on many issues, but I don't repeat them ad nauseum.
I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here by assuming you actually care. And if you are truly concerned, and want your message to be heard, you don't want any of those labels.
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110%er [6397]
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Re: I stopped reading at "Why would I not point out problems...
Feb 18, 2022, 11:12 AM
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So you didn't read the part about me praising the program. Gotcha.
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Heisman Winner [140551]
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Correct...
Feb 18, 2022, 11:14 AM
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I stopped reading at "Why would I not point out problems..." because that's exactly what the problem is. I haven't seen anyone accuse you of "praising the program" too much.
Have a good one.
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110%er [6397]
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Re: Correct...
Feb 18, 2022, 11:17 AM
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I am one of DJ's biggest defenders on this board. But okay.
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CU Guru [1650]
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Re: That's where you are wrong...
Feb 18, 2022, 1:16 PM
[ in reply to That's where you are wrong... ] |
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He is losing his audience much like the real Leon Trotsky lost his governing power and audience after being exiled on multiple locations and fronts under Stalinism and later Communism. How much of a nutcase and hardliner do you have to be to be ousted by multiple governments around the world? I am not sure why anyone would choose a Zionist puppet to be there handle and avatar but I digress.
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CU Guru [1650]
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Re: That's where you are wrong...
Feb 18, 2022, 1:17 PM
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*Their
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110%er [6397]
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Hall of Famer [21579]
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Couldn't agree more....
Feb 18, 2022, 10:23 AM
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OL recruiting continues to be beyond abysmal. Need to hit the portal HARD!!!! NO WALK ONS SHOULD RECIEVE A SCHOLARSHIP!!!! GO GET OLINEMEN!!!!
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Hall of Famer [22392]
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110%er [6397]
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Re: Of 14 remaining linemen, 4 are tackles and 10 are interior
Feb 18, 2022, 11:09 AM
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Our coaches cross-train though
McFadden, Parks, Williams, Tate, Leigh, Sadler, and Miller are all natural OTs
Putnam, Howard, Tucker, Linthicum, and Pennington are all natural IOL
Mayes is truly either/or
Tate and Williams were moved inside last year because of injuries and depth. Tate was our LT during the spring game. Williams was a backup OT his first year.
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Hall of Famer [22392]
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Williams, Tate and Mayes are guards. Leigh "could be"
Feb 18, 2022, 11:39 AM
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a tackle. Tate and Williams played tackle in the Spring because we had no tackles to back up the starters. Sadler and Miller will be freshmen and were not on the team.
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110%er [6397]
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Re: Williams, Tate and Mayes are guards. Leigh "could be"
Feb 18, 2022, 12:58 PM
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Williams is tall and athletic, which is ideal for OTs considering they have to hold up in pass pro against edge rushers. Guards are stronger and heavier, considering they have to move defensive tackles.
Tate started out as an OT, then was moved to OG because of attrition. I'm willing to bet he takes over for McFadden after he graduates.
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110%er [7141]
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Re: Williams, Tate and Mayes are guards. Leigh "could be"
Feb 18, 2022, 1:20 PM
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Sure hope that Williams can develop well enough to play RT when W.Parks is gone.
As for M.Tate playing LT after McFadden is gone, it sure seems reasonable that may be the plan. Remember how M.Tate (as a starter at LG) had almost always been shown on the pre-game depth chart (FWIW) as backup LT.
Clearly, the coaching staff believes that they have a special player in M.Tate.
I still am curious whether an either/or (i.e., tackle or guard) OL like Mitchell Mayes will be cross-trained for the Center job. I haven't seen enough of his play, but since he had been listed on the pre-game depth chart (again, FWIW) as back-up RT to W.Parks, I'm presuming that the staff views M.Mayes as a fine athlete among the OL.
Center requires a lot of athleticism ... maybe they'll give M.Mayes a shot at seeing how well he can pick up the center position.
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CU Guru [1143]
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Re: OL recruiting
Feb 18, 2022, 11:09 AM
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Based on the previous seasons, it sounds like we rotated IOL/OT roles with our guys a lot. I am not necessarily concerned with what other programs do, but was thinking that perhaps if we were 'above-average' with the cross-training, is that perhaps a thought process where Clemson is not as concerned with the position these OL guys played in high school?
Also, as a creature of habit myself, how much shuffling on the line is too much shuffling on the line?
I certainly understand the value of having several bodies able to plug holes, but is there a point where the nuance or expertise at a certain position declines?
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All-TigerNet [10822]
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I don't believe cross training is helping us a lot
Feb 18, 2022, 3:48 PM
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Let's get really good at executing the fundementals at your position.
There will always be a couple guys that can play C/G or G/T. We should limit the cross training, everyone can't handle it.
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110%er [7141]
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Re: OL recruiting: Rumor that T's cannot play G's is bunk
Feb 18, 2022, 11:12 AM
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Hi LeonTrotsky® and several others among this thread's posters.
Let's put to rest the rumor that Tackles cannot play Guard.
I remember some interviews with players on TNet who describe that the job of Guard and the types of blocks that Guards must perfect are different from the job / types of blocks needed from the Tackle position. This is true. (I recall the interview with Marcus Tate, who shared his challenges about going from Tackle to Guard last season.)
HOWEVER, this does not mean that Tackles cannot learn the guard position and then play Guard very well. On the other hand, it doesn't often work the other way so well (i.e., Guards being able to play the Tackle position very well ... especially the LT position). There are always exceptions, but it is a harder ask to get a player with enough skills at Guard to have the lateral movement skills needed to play Tackle.
Tackle position is akin to the goalie in hockey. Lots of quick lateral movement is needed. Guard is more of a pure power position; the tight spaces mean that there is less of an urgent need for lateral movement.
Where is all this going? Clemson is better off recruiting OL that can play Tackle. These guys are typically much easier to transition to Guard if needed. Don't believe me? Look at some recent study OTs at Clemson and where they had made their way in the NFL. Brandon Thompson ... all ACC tackle, played Guard in NFL. Tremayne Anchrum ... ditto. Jackson Carman ... ditto. OK, now show me a successful college OG who plays OT in the NFL. Waiting ... waiting ... waiting.
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Hall of Famer [22725]
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Re: OL recruiting: Rumor that T's cannot play G's is bunk
Feb 18, 2022, 11:20 AM
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I was thinking the same thing but you explained it better than I would have. I was going to mention Carman playing guard this year. If the coaches had a crystal ball and could see 2 years ago that Rayburn would end up with a neck issue and Trotter would end up in the love shack they might have brought in more interior linemen. They will do what they can and we will move on. I’m still hopeful and staying positive.
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All-In [48334]
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Re: OL recruiting: Rumor that T's cannot play G's is bunk
Feb 18, 2022, 1:02 PM
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Both of you are partially correct. You and Francis st al obviously have a pick with Leon. He posts some good stuff. Most is neither positive or negative, it's FYI. No one on here wants Clemson to succeed any more than Leon.
But he's correct. Yes, Danny, we can all point to a Renfrow, clap our hands and say, see, Dabo created him. It's not easy moving from one side to the other, it's not easy moving tackle to guard and vice versa.
It's done occasionally in the NFL because you're talking the best of the best. We're not an elite recruiting ol school. Nor does Dabo have the luxury of having a guy on roster with 10yrs experience to train them up. Not so long ago every team had the luxury of starting rs juniors and seniors on both sides of the line. Not much anymore... Not if you're elite. So yes, Dabo should have known.
This is not a new subject. It's been talked about for several years. If we have a special kid that can transition, fine. Dabo will figure it out but there's no reason why Leon and others can't discuss it. It's called a discussion board for a reason. Y'all just seem to want to heave barbs.
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110%er [6397]
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Re: OL recruiting: Rumor that T's cannot play G's is bunk
Feb 18, 2022, 1:09 PM
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This is correct
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Heisman Winner [140551]
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An FYI is passing of information…
Feb 18, 2022, 2:03 PM
[ in reply to Re: OL recruiting: Rumor that T's cannot play G's is bunk ] |
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“Yikes”, “I hope”, etc… are commentary. He goes on to ask “why would I not point out problems”. He’s not just passing out recruiting info, he thinks we have a recruiting problem, and he posts accordingly. That’s cool, but people are going to tune you out, or assume you’re a troll, if you push the same narrative over and over and over.
And I don’t think I’ve hurled any barbs, it will be pretty clear if I start.
Message was edited by: Francis Marion®
Message was edited by: Francis Marion®
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110%er [6397]
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Re: OL recruiting: Rumor that T's cannot play G's is bunk
Feb 18, 2022, 1:06 PM
[ in reply to Re: OL recruiting: Rumor that T's cannot play G's is bunk ] |
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I didn't say that tackles can't play guard. I just said that we recruited 2 OTs while losing 4 IOL. Now we have to resort to cross-training instead of just signing players better suited in the immediate future.
A big issue that I have with your assessment is comparing college athletes to NFL athletes. Jackson Carman can be an OT in college because he's not blocking elite edge rushers. Same thing with Anchrum. Both could excel as OTs in college because they weren't blocking elite edge rushers every week. In fact, most of the edge players they faced in college never came close to touching an NFL field. I expect McFadden to be moved inside as well. The NFL is a different game than college, which is where this conversation should be directed.
The point I was making was that we recruited 2 OTs while losing 3-4 IOLs. That doesn't seem to make much sense. So, I'm hoping the coaches find an option from the portal because I would hate going into next season with two centers that have virtually no experience.
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All-TigerNet [10822]
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Re: OL recruiting: Rumor that T's cannot play G's is bunk
Feb 18, 2022, 3:50 PM
[ in reply to Re: OL recruiting: Rumor that T's cannot play G's is bunk ] |
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if you can play tackle you can play guard. Not the other way around. The OT requires more athleticism (quick feet and long reach)
Most OT's can run block inside. It doesn't take a magician to block a 1 or 3 tech. You better be a man though.
we got some grrrrrrreat OL experts round these parts.
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CU Guru [1143]
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All-TigerNet [10822]
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we really don't prioritize OL enough at Clemson
Feb 18, 2022, 3:44 PM
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we should be carrying more numbers there. If we haven't proved that by now.. I just don't know.
the OL is the FOUNDATION of any offense. Ball control and game control are heavily dependent on them. You can't do ANYTHING without them. They are the engine that drives the offense. We should start treating them as such.
We need to do something special for our OL at the training table, weight room, lounge areas, etc. We should be a prestigious place to play OL. We should make our OL look good so we can get them drafted. Our RPO blocking scheme is a joke.. it's not making our OL look productive. I understand it's difficult. We need to have other running plays available. Our QB couldn't make the reads.
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CU Guru [1143]
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Re: we really don't prioritize OL enough at Clemson
Feb 18, 2022, 8:40 PM
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I agree with you that OL is the foundation of any productive offense. I also agree we should probably stop on the cross-training and get these gents into practicing their craft with eyes set on improving their draft one day. I personally think it's the place we need the most improvement, and have needed in a sort of growing/expanding fashion.
Being known as an elite team would be sick; that definitely would also be a recruiting perk for QBs that don't want to get hurt, and RB's that want to put big numbers. Maybe Dinner's with Dabo every Wednesday at Hooters.
This is actually a really cool opportunity to improve. Excited to see what Austin can do...I mean with all due respect to Coach Caldwell (and I sincerely mean that), even marginal improvement would help build some momentum/hope. Just felt like we have been in an OL rut the last 3 or 4 years.
I mean it happens, but this is one area we can work on that will give us exponential results IMHO.
Message was edited by: WarDaddy17®
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CU Guru [1938]
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Re: OL recruiting
Feb 19, 2022, 9:32 AM
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You are aware that a high school OT can easily move inside to OG, right?
Are you new to this thing named football?
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Orange Blooded [3961]
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Re: OL recruiting
Feb 19, 2022, 1:05 PM
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I never pay any attention the what recruiting services assign these OL because we have always moved Ol around as needed. It would not surprise me the least to see those to frogs play guard and tackle throughout their career and maybe even center.
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