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Clemson Icon [24757]
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"If Ukraine-Russia Negotiations Fail, Victory Remains an Option"
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Apr 24, 2025, 10:39 AM
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The testimony before the Senate Armed Services Committee earlier this month of Gen. Christopher Cavoli, Supreme Allied Commander Europe, the soldier most knowledgeable about the current situation in Europe and Ukraine, mostly went unnoticed by the media.
His testimony punctured the false narrative being spread by President Trump and members of his national security team—that Russia is winning, Ukraine is doomed, and future U.S. support would be wasted. That view, repeated by President Trump on multiple occasions, is more than misinformation. It is a view that distorts the battlefield reality and the critical strategic interests of the United States and our allies.
Partition isn’t peace. It’s a time bomb. President Trump’s rhetoric, Steve Witkoff’s sycophancy toward Putin, and Gen. Kellogg’s proposed partition scheme play right into Putin's plan.
The window for Ukraine to regain momentum is narrowing—but not closed.
Perhaps Cavoli’s most important message was this:
There’s nothing inevitable in war, and the Ukrainians are in very strong defensive positions right now, and are improving weekly, their ability to generate force and to reinforce those positions. It is hard sitting here right now to envision a major Ukrainian offensive that clears everybody you know out of every square inch of Ukraine. But likewise, it’s very hard to envision Ukraine collapsing and losing that conflict. I do not think there is inevitability to a Ukrainian loss.
https://www.thebulwark.com/p/if-ukraine-russia-negotiations-fail-vistory-remains-option-trump-rubio-zelensky-putin-war
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Campus Hero [13502]
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Trump said he knows more than his generals. Should I believe him?***
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Apr 24, 2025, 11:17 AM
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Clemson Icon [24757]
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If you want to know about Chapter 11 bankruptcy protections, he's your man!
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Apr 24, 2025, 11:28 AM
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He also claims to know more than the economists.
If you ask Trump "what time is it?" he would lie for the practice.
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Clemson Icon [25747]
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Re: "If Ukraine-Russia Negotiations Fail, Victory Remains an Option"
Apr 24, 2025, 11:32 AM
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They have been doing pretty well so far. There's a reason Putin always has to bring up nukes. He is desperate.
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Paw Master [16674]
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Absolutely. Im not saying Ukraine WILL win, but that they can.
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Apr 24, 2025, 11:39 AM
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It’s yet another national embarrassment that our CIC spouts such childish rhetoric about the war to defend his stance. Not only is it often right from the Russian propaganda playbook, but it’s often probably wrong ($350 billion to Ukraine!?!) and shows a remarkable lack of understanding of how war is won. And again, I’m no military expert, but I know it’s more complicated than “Russia claimed an additional 0.03% of Ukraine’s land this month, and it only cost them 30,000 soldiers and 200 pieces of military equipment…clearly they are winning.”
Military morale can be a tricky thing. Putin literally had a mercenary group March toward Moscow a year or so ago. There is a limit to what any people, even the most beat down and brain washed, will endure.
My hope is that, failing a 180 degree mindset change of the administration, that we don’t actively start supporting Russia. Just get out of the way and live with the shame.
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Valley Legend [12684]
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Re: "If Ukraine-Russia Negotiations Fail, Victory Remains an Option"
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Apr 24, 2025, 6:53 PM
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then what is ukraine waiting for
victory is over there>>>>>>>>>>
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Clemson Icon [25747]
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Re: "If Ukraine-Russia Negotiations Fail, Victory Remains an Option"
Apr 24, 2025, 6:55 PM
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They aren't waiting on anything. They are holding off the Russians. That will be a victory if they can hold them off.
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Valley Legend [12684]
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Re: "If Ukraine-Russia Negotiations Fail, Victory Remains an Option"
Apr 24, 2025, 6:57 PM
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so ukraine is winning
why are we worried about ukraine
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Clemson Icon [25747]
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Re: "If Ukraine-Russia Negotiations Fail, Victory Remains an Option"
Apr 24, 2025, 6:58 PM
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If you need that explained, you shouldn't be involved in this thread.
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Valley Legend [12684]
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Re: "If Ukraine-Russia Negotiations Fail, Victory Remains an Option"
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Apr 24, 2025, 7:00 PM
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Supreme Allied Commander Europe said he has a plan for victory
why are we negotiating
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Clemson Icon [25747]
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Re: "If Ukraine-Russia Negotiations Fail, Victory Remains an Option"
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Apr 24, 2025, 7:02 PM
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Why wouldn't we be? Maybe they can agree in terms. As I now Russia isn't being asked for anything. Your comments are once again. One of an idiot. You are either trolling an idiot or a combo of both. Hopefully for your sake you are just trolling. I would hope so.
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Clemson Conqueror [11558]
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Re: "If Ukraine-Russia Negotiations Fail, Victory Remains an Option"
Apr 24, 2025, 9:00 PM
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Christopher Cavoli has been the Allied Supreme Commander in Europe since July 2022.
What the heck had he been doing between July 2022 and December 2024?
How heroic of the guy. Back when Warlord Biden’s handlers were running the WH and telling Commander in Thief Joe Biden what to do, what the heck was Cavoli doing to win the war for Ukraine? He had lots of American money and high tech weaponry + communication systems to Ukraine. Now he starts mouthing off, and of course it’s Orange Man’s fault.
I guess that he didn’t do a thing to prevent Ukraine from redirecting half of the money and weaponry to the international arms black market. Why wasn’t Cavoli doing his job and broadcasting Ukraine’s theft / resale of weapons instead of using them to fight the Russians?
One day this guy may be investigated and we’ll learn that he has a net worth between $25M and $100M. He’ll have made his money since the start of the Russia / Ukraine war.
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Ring of Honor [23768]
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Embarrassing lack of understanding - as usual
Apr 27, 2025, 9:53 AM
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You’re flailing at the wrong target because you don’t understand basic military structure. Cavoli isn’t a politician, he’s a general. His job isn’t to run Ukraine’s government, audit their books, or micromanage every rifle and dollar. His responsibility is coordinating NATO defense, not single-handedly winning a sovereign nation’s war.
Also, throwing around wild accusations about someone’s future "net worth" without a shred of evidence just shows you’re not serious. It’s pure internet conspiracy bull sh*t. If you can’t even grasp who Cavoli reports to or what his role is, maybe sit this one out.
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Clemson Conqueror [11558]
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Gen. Cavoli - you cant have it both ways with him re his pro-war argument
Apr 29, 2025, 12:57 PM
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Now you’re making excuses for Cavoli as not having a full understanding about why embracing the ‘let’s win it all’ strategy is not feasible.
“Cavoli isn’t a politician, he’s a general.”
Your argument in poor in defense of Cavoli. Cavoli’s failure to integrate the economic aspects of continuing to escalate the Ukraine war (i.e., he hasn’t figured out that ~ 50%+ of American military aid has been filched by powerful Ukrainian entities who are enriching themselves in the international arms black market) renders his opinion as being from one who isn’t informed enough to make a cogent opinion.
(?). Is Cavoli stupid (does he not understand that, pouring money down the Ukraine rathole to support a country whose own leaders don’t care enough about the outcome of their very own war to deploy the harshest measures possible to stamp out the corruption, such beneficiaries are not themselves committed to ‘winning at all costs’)?
-or-
(?). Is Cavoli dishonest (he KNOWS that wasting more American resources on Ukraine cannot lead a corrupt nation like Ukraine whose current leaders were installed via a CIA coup, and therefore not the trustworthy Ukrainian patriots that much of America’s media and politicians portray them to be)?
Regardless of whether Cavoli is stupid or whether he is dishonest, that believers in the ‘win is the only option’ for Ukrainian war strategy are not thinking when lauding Cavoli’s half-baked opinion about why the war should be continued at American taxpayer expense.
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Paw Master [16674]
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Do you have a non-tinfoil hat resource that supports your claim that
Apr 29, 2025, 1:36 PM
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" ~ 50%+ of American military aid has been filched by powerful Ukrainian entities who are enriching themselves in the international arms black market"?
What weapons? Where are they? Who sold them? Who bought them? Is this why Trump keeps saying we gave Ukraine $350 billion in cash? Because he has to about triple it and then say that someone took most of it?
"a corrupt nation like Ukraine whose current leaders were installed via a CIA coup, and therefore not the trustworthy Ukrainian patriots that much of America’s media and politicians portray them to be"
Yeah yeah yeah. You guys tell yourselves whatever you have to in order to convince yourselves that Trump isn't a lunatic and your support for him makes you right no matter what. What I KNOW is that when the tanks crossed the border, and we offered the guy a ride, Zelensky said he wanted weapons. The man works tirelessly in support of his country. His life is in constant peril. He goes to the front line, he goes to the attack sites. He is constantly drumming up support for his country, doing what he can to support it. Sorry...if he was a grifter, he would have taken the ride and retired in luxury. He has not chosen the life of a man that is seeking to enrich himself. Putin, on the other hand...
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Clemson Conqueror [11558]
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Re: Do you have a non-tinfoil hat resource that supports your claim that
Apr 29, 2025, 9:02 PM
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A while back (it was either late 2022 or H1-2023), CBS News (yeah, surprise!) did an expose on the Ukrainian fighting forces. Not with Ukrainian politicians or ministers of defense related departments, but with front line personnel (by that, I mean not just infantry / mechanized troops, but also logistics and mid-level officers in combat units).
The CBS expose (which was not an article, but rather a video / audio production), was censored within days of its being aired, I forget which podcaster exposed the video; the podcaster’s access to the CBS News production wss shortly thereafter removed, courtesy of America’s Dept of Defense.
To be sure, the video was revealing vulnerabilities about the Ukrainian forces that, if widely broadcasted to the American public, would have quickly destroyed much of America’s then-prevalent support for funding of the Ukraine war. To be fair (at that point in time), I reluctantly agreed with the ‘censorship’ decision from the Biden Handlers Admin. (Not that my agreement or disagreement meant anything.)
Anyways, at that point multiple officer level personnel at a level or two below the Corp level complained bitterly that Ukrainian black marketeers (politically connected thieves) were stealing an astounding 70% of arms supplied to them by NATO.
The smuggling was to customers in the Middle East. This was surprisingly easy to do because Ukraine was (and still is) the largest supplier of grain to places Egypt, Libya, and others (I forget which ones). Anyways, the grain is whole grain that is shipped in bulk on ocean going ships. Arms are simply buried within the mass of grain, and retrieved by the black market arms customers at the ports of entry.
Zelenskyy ; Ukraine’s govt knows this. So do America’s defense contractors. So does the DoD. In its own way, there are different reasons why each of these three entities are OK with the theft.
Zelenskyy and his cronies are getting rich; their objective is to avoid being killed by NATO countries’ secret services or the CIA -&- be protected by the CIA and NATO countries’s spies from being killed by Russia’s secret service. What good does it do to amass a fortune and live a lavish retirement on France’s south coast if you’re dead?
America’s defense contractors get money be replacing those already-purchased-by-the-DoD weapons via new weapons sales (replacement for the old / given-to-Ukraine weapons) to the DoD.
The DoD, aside from high ranking officers getting rich off of stock holdings in Lockheed Martin, Raetheon, General Dynamics, etc, gets to prove its worth (and thus its bureaucracy status) via an active war. Nothing leads Americans to support the DoD more than an active war.
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Clemson Icon [25747]
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Re: Do you have a non-tinfoil hat resource that supports your claim that
Apr 29, 2025, 9:05 PM
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^^^cuckoo^^^
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Clemson Conqueror [11558]
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Re: Do you have a non-tinfoil hat resource that supports your claim that
Apr 29, 2025, 9:30 PM
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^^^^ delusional ^^^^
Your turn.
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Clemson Icon [25747]
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Re: Do you have a non-tinfoil hat resource that supports your claim that
Apr 29, 2025, 9:32 PM
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No thanks. It's pretty clear your nuts. Everyone knows that here though. A very intelligent nutcase is how I would describe you.
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Paw Master [16674]
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Okay...so just to be clear, your evidence is a CBS "expose" that was
Apr 29, 2025, 11:47 PM
[ in reply to Re: Do you have a non-tinfoil hat resource that supports your claim that ] |
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censored after being aired.
Here you go...
https://www.yahoo.com/news/cbs-partially-retracts-documentary-outraged-101033656.html
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-military-aid-weapons-front-lines/
https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-tucker-carlson-ukraine-weapons-black-market-cartels-2030011
To be clear, the CBS story didn't claim that 70% of the material sent to Ukraine was being stolen and sold on the black market. It quoted one guy early in the conflict stating that only 30% of the materials make it to the front line. Again...this was early in the conflict in a very active and volatile war. As was stated in the above articles, in an environment relying on volunteers, with a new logistical structure and a constantly changing front line, there are many reason why the early equipment wasn't just waltzing up to the front line (and to be sure, some of it could be corruption). Since then, hundreds of billions in equipment have been sent from western nations to Ukraine. Where is the evidence of rampant corruption? Did the black marketeers decide they made enough money and stopped selling it? Were the buyers done buying? Is Ukraine REALLY holding their own such as they are against one of the largest militaries in the world based on 30% of the equipment being used?
You really don't consider that you saw one article several years ago, and have allowed it to support your already decided opinion on Ukrainian corruption? Objectively, you feel that rampant corruption from Ukraine and the loss of the majority of equipment before it gets to a useful position fits with what you see happening in this war?
True to form for this type of discussion, after your one flimsy three year old story that raises unsubstantiated concerns, you just barrel forward with unsubstantiated claims about who is getting rich, who is benefitting, etc. It's like me claiming you're a Russian paid propagandist. How do I know? Well, who benefits from you spreading the "Ukraine is selling off the goods we send to them!" narrative? Geez man...follow the money, you know?
The "Zelensky is getting rich" thing is maybe my favorite. Again, the guy had a choice between getting out of Dodge and letting Putin have his way with Ukraine while we put him up in some chateau for the rest of his life, or leading his country against an unproved war by a fascist dictator. The fact that some of you say that he chose his current situation to enrich himself just absolutely cracks me up.
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Clemson Conqueror [11558]
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Re: Okay...so just to be clear, your evidence is a CBS "expose" that was
Apr 30, 2025, 6:51 AM
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Thanks for the background work re the CBS News expose in the Ukraine war.
Allow me to educate you about what ‘unsubstantiated’ means vs ‘substantiated.’
Unsubstantiated, in this instance, would mean that I couldn’t find or didn’t cite a source. Substantiated means that a source was cited.
I cited a source. You don’t like it. Instead, you take what Zelenskyy says; Zelenskyy is propagandizing for the EU’s desire to keep the war going.
Why would a reasonable person believe my source better than your source? Because my source was so powerful and convincing that our government (then being run by Biden’s handlers) knew that it made Biden look really really bad. If the CBS source was a fraud, with its enormous resources, would have not bothered to censor it. Instead, they would have put forth counter stories. You know, ‘it’s just Russia disinformation’ tripe. Instead, they would have story was censored.
On a related note re Ukrainian corruption, does the name Hunter Biden ring a bell? Only via a corrupt CIA, ODNI, and FBI were the Biden Handlers Admin able to suppress news about Hunter’s -and- The Big Guy’s corrupt dealing with the Ukrainian government. Ukraine is, and has been for years, high on the list of corrupt countries from within the category of modern / civilized nations.
Go in believing the ‘Ukraine is going to win it all if if if only Trump would support the war’ narrative. You have company in that the same pro-Uniparty media that promulgated news whopper lies (including, but not limited to, the Russia hoax, the Hunter Biden laptop = Russia disinformation, the ‘Biden is sharp and in control, the ‘COVID 19 was not a lab lead - it was a natural mutation that adapted a bat virus to being infectious to humans’ narrative, etc etc etc). Your ilk doesn’t believe your garbage news sources because of stupidity. Rather, it is cognitive dissonance that plagues your ilk. Despite a growing wave of proof, your ilk simply refuses to accept that real news and legitimate reporting is not what you (collectively) seek. Rather, your ilk seeks ‘information’ that confirms your biases. Your bias is opposing Trump. ‘Truth’ to you is anything that makes Trump look bad. ‘Lies’ to you are everything that makes Trump look good. When Biden looked bad, it made Trump look good by comparison.
Ukraine war corruption and waste of American aid made Biden Handlers Admin look very very bad. Same as the Afghanistan withdrawl made Biden look really really bad. Your ilk cannot handle the truth.
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Paw Master [16674]
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Okay RTD, were clearly talking past each other.
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Apr 30, 2025, 7:32 AM
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Thanks for the response, though.
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CU Medallion [18167]
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Re: "If Ukraine-Russia Negotiations Fail, Victory Remains an Option"
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Apr 26, 2025, 10:58 PM
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Then Europe needs to band together under the Supreme Allied Commander and take care ofbl their neighbor. No need for U.S. involvement. If it's that feasible, Charge!
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Clemson Icon [25747]
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Re: "If Ukraine-Russia Negotiations Fail, Victory Remains an Option"
Apr 26, 2025, 11:00 PM
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You obviously don't understand the issue. They are pulling together and still need the help of the United States. I know you want Putin and the facts don't matter, but at the least feign like you understand the basics.
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Oculus Spirit [43161]
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Why do they need our help, we have helped too much already***
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Apr 27, 2025, 5:28 AM
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Clemson Icon [25747]
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Re: Why do they need our help, we have helped too much already***
Apr 27, 2025, 9:55 AM
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Because we have the weapons that others don't. And no, we haven't helped too much already.
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Ring of Honor [23768]
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Clemson Conqueror [11558]
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Re: It's a waste of time convincing maga that Putin is not a US ally...
Apr 29, 2025, 9:31 PM
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Who said that Putin is a USA ally?
Stop doing drugs.
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Clemson Icon [25747]
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Oculus Spirit [43161]
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It would be awesome to watch Ukraine kick Russia out with Europe's money***
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Apr 27, 2025, 5:26 AM
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Clemson Icon [25747]
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Re: It would be awesome to watch Ukraine kick Russia out with Europe's money***
Apr 27, 2025, 9:57 AM
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They are with Europe's money as well.
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Ring of Honor [23768]
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Ring of Honor [23768]
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Clemson Icon [25747]
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Re: It would be awesome to watch Ukraine kick Russia out with Europe's money***
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Apr 27, 2025, 10:10 AM
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We have also learned a lot from this war militarily according to military experts.
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Clemson Conqueror [11558]
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Clemson Icon [25747]
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Re: It would be awesome to watch Ukraine kick Russia out with Europe's money***
Apr 29, 2025, 9:35 PM
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Well hopefully for you Putin wins so you can be stoked.
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Clemson Conqueror [11558]
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Re: It would be awesome to watch Ukraine kick Russia out with Europe's money***
Apr 30, 2025, 6:59 AM
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I hate it that Russia will end up carving out a big hunk of Ukrainian territory as the ‘minimum loss’ outcome.
Accepting reality is difficult. The Confederacy was unhappy that Lee surrendered, and that Jefferson Davis called it quits. Yet, there were plenty of Confederate entities that wanted to keep the war going. ‘Quit, H377’ was their cry. The sensible Confederate entities, on the other hand, knew that ‘the cause’ was lost.
Ukraine will be OK after the fighting stops, but only if Ukraine’s EU handlers lets Ukraine stop fighting. Otherwise, Ukraine will be losing territory at an increasingly rapid pace. Russia will not relinquish territory that they had already taken over. THIS is the most important reason why hostilities must cease very soon.
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Clemson Icon [25747]
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Re: It would be awesome to watch Ukraine kick Russia out with Europe's money***
Apr 30, 2025, 7:55 AM
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They are fighting off Russia very well. You have no idea how it will end. You support Russia because your cult leader supports Russia.
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Clemson Conqueror [11558]
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Re: It would be awesome to watch Ukraine kick Russia out with Europe's money***
Apr 30, 2025, 9:57 PM
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Ukraine is moving inexorably towards a collapse of The Confederacy proportions.
The idea is for Ukraine to settle the war BEFORE they lose everything.
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Clemson Icon [25747]
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Re: It would be awesome to watch Ukraine kick Russia out with Europe's money***
Apr 30, 2025, 9:59 PM
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They don't agree with you, nor do our other European allies. You support Russia and that's all the drives your opinion. You have no idea what you are talking about.
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Orange Elite [5263]
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