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Replies: 29
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Clemson Icon [24226]
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Offensive coaching is hard to evaluate because the roles are obfuscated.
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Nov 27, 2023, 12:34 PM
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Fact: Dabo says Garrett Riley has independence to run the offense.
Fact: The entire offensive staff around Riley is not his choosing.
Fact: Dabo says that GR is running "Clemson's offense" not GR's own offense.
Fact: Dabo is involved in the playcalling to some degree based on what we see with our eyes
So if this really is Garrett's offense.... shouldn't he be able to make a staff decision or two?
If this is Clemson's offense and not GR's and Dabo is involved (on some level) with playcalling, what exactly does it mean that Garrett is running the offense?
It's a confusing situation. Chad Morris brought his offense. All subsequent OC's used Morris's template and tweaked it and it morphed into leaning on elite talent. Now.... what is it? Other than confused, inflexible and not suitable for our talent level.
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Heisman Winner [86300]
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I KNOW you ain't coming onto the Tigernets with a vague, seldom used word like
Nov 27, 2023, 12:36 PM
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"are".
Gotcha.
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Playmaker [370]
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Dabo doesnt call plays and never has.
Nov 27, 2023, 12:38 PM
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He has basic input like down and distance and run or pass. All head coaches utilize the right to direct (not call plays) their assistants.
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Clemson Icon [24226]
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We can't know if he ever calls plays.... but he is involved in playcalling.
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Nov 27, 2023, 12:41 PM
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He talks to GR on 3rd down plays too. Not just 4th down. He is looking at his playsheet before, during and after playcalls. Garrett watches Dabo talk to the offense frequently instead of him leading the convo. I don't claim to know what level of involvement Dabo has... because we can't tell. But we can tell it's not zero. It's not close to zero.
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Playmaker [370]
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Of course its not zero, however, Dabo doesnt call plays
Nov 27, 2023, 5:10 PM
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and never had. His involvement in the offense is no different than any head coach who typically leans to offense or defense as his background.
This has been stated numerous times in different ways over the years, including this year. Regardless of how you slice, you can’t say anything about meddling now without citing him as a meddling playcaller during the 6 year playoff run.
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Top TigerNet [32929]
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Re: Offensive coaching is hard to evaluate because the roles are obfuscated.
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Nov 27, 2023, 12:40 PM
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I think the staff issue(s) and the personnel issue(s) are the most glaring. Personnel issues limit the playcalling dramatically. Outside of Collins, we have nobody at the boundary position. No one. Don't care to get into multiple staff issues, but the fact that some receivers can't run good routes, don't fight for balls, can't block, etc. indicate a coaching issue. The dropoff in talent and production since Jeff Scott's departure has been dramatic.
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Clemson Icon [24226]
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Is Riley allowed to address that? That's my question. Doesn't seem
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Nov 27, 2023, 12:41 PM
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like it's really his offense.
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Top TigerNet [32929]
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Re: Is Riley allowed to address that? That's my question. Doesn't seem
Nov 27, 2023, 12:44 PM
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Hard to know. I think the personnel issues clearly limit our play calling. Blocking has been horrible. We can't attack MOF or the boundary because frankly, nobody can get open.
On the other hand, I thought Riley called far too many passing plays on Saturday for my liking---particularly on 1st and 2nd down.
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Game Changer [1914]
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Re: Offensive coaching is hard to evaluate because the roles are obfuscated.
Nov 27, 2023, 12:44 PM
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Our starting WRs were injured
Our backups couldn’t get separation and struggled catching
Our QB is a freshman and makes impulsive decisions
Our OL struggled to give our QB time to throw
This is why our offense looked the way it did. Our defense made us not have to risk as much.
Not sure where the “Clemson offense” vs “GR offense” has been shown to be different. The OC’s offense is the teams offense
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Clemson Icon [24226]
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Dabo made it a point to say that before the Duke game. He thought it was
Nov 27, 2023, 12:45 PM
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important enough to correct the reporter. He wanted to make sure we all knew it was Clemson's offense.
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Solid Orange [1338]
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Re: Dabo made it a point to say that before the Duke game. He thought it was
Nov 27, 2023, 12:51 PM
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well the Clemson offense sux!
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Game Changer [1914]
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Playmaker [370]
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Exactly. Dabo made it a point to say its not (individual name) offense, its
Nov 27, 2023, 5:16 PM
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the Clemson (team) offense. As you noted, he’d say exactly the same thing about the defense. “It’s not Wes’ defense, it’s Clemson defense”.
Those acting like Dabo had a hand in modifying to his liking are confused. It’s Rileys playbook, albeit reduced for the developing QB. Still, Riley is the playcaller, period.
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Playmaker [361]
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Orange Immortal [65732]
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Not only that, the roles are unclear and confusing.***
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Nov 27, 2023, 12:48 PM
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [102986]
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GR had the option and made a lateral move to learn to become a head coach.
Nov 27, 2023, 12:55 PM
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He wanted the opportunity to coach in the playoff and he will get one or two before he takes a head coaching job. He didn't come here thinking he was going to make swift decisive changes. You did.
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Clemson Icon [24226]
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I didn't initially think anything other than I was excited. I didn't start
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Nov 27, 2023, 1:01 PM
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thinking more about it until our offense was repeatedly terrible.
Now I'm wondering what the arrangement is since there seems to be some inconsistency in the message.
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Valley Legend [12881]
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Re: Offensive coaching is hard to evaluate because the roles are obfuscated.
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Nov 27, 2023, 1:02 PM
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Dabo is the HC. For employees who do not like the way he (DABO) runs the show they have a decision to make. Accept that fact or leave. That includes the OC and DC. I support Dabo.
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Clemson Icon [24769]
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Same way Saban does it at Alabama.
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Nov 27, 2023, 1:19 PM
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It is naive to suggest that a head coach doesn't manage the game and provide input to the offense, defense and special teams decisions.
It would also be a bad idea to let an OC who has a history of short stays at destinations bring in a whole new staff offensively to then get a head coaching job and take them all with him.
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Playmaker [370]
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Bingo! I guess some dudes forget this is how football works.***
Nov 27, 2023, 5:17 PM
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Valley Legend [12998]
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Re: Offensive coaching is hard to evaluate because the roles are obfuscated.
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Nov 27, 2023, 1:27 PM
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Do you believe there are a single HC who does not have input on play selection?
Did Chad or Brent get to choose the position coaches? Do you know of any coordinators who gets to choose their position coaches?
If the offense is being run at Clemson it is the Clemson offense. Same for the defense.
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Playmaker [370]
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Thats a dang good post right there***
Nov 27, 2023, 5:18 PM
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Rival Killer [2964]
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Organization is set up to fail....
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Nov 27, 2023, 1:28 PM
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5 offensive assistant coaches with one designated as offensive coordinator. None of the assistants report to the coordinator, they all report to Dabo. This organization does not drive any kind of strategic alignment. It's surprising they do as well as they do given the current structure.
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Playmaker [370]
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Um, Garret Riley is the offensive coordinator .
Nov 27, 2023, 5:20 PM
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Are you okay man?
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Rival Killer [2964]
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Re: Um, Garret Riley is the offensive coordinator .
Nov 28, 2023, 12:03 AM
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Yes, he is. I'm just saying the organization does not have the other offensive assistant coaches reporting to him and that has to make alignment difficult. I'm not sure what your point is?
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CU Medallion [20810]
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+1 for obfuscated.***
Nov 27, 2023, 5:19 PM
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All-In [10143]
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Let me king James this answer
Nov 27, 2023, 5:20 PM
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Whatever or whoever is running this offense needs to realize that maybe this game is too much for their skill set.
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Letterman [290]
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Re: Offensive coaching is hard to evaluate because the roles are obfuscated.
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Nov 27, 2023, 6:32 PM
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Fact: Dabo says that GR is running "Clemson's offense" not GR's own offense.
Fact: Dabo is involved in the playcalling to some degree based on what we see with our eyes
Literally both of these were addressed multiple times, by Dabo. Do ya'll not watch his press conferences?
It's really weird how thee things are addressed repeatedly, and ya'll keep trying to blame Dabo for the offense not being amazing instead of Garrett Riley.
How many times does Dabo have to address this stuff?
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Game Changer [1897]
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Re: Offensive coaching is hard to evaluate because the roles are obfuscated.
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Nov 27, 2023, 9:33 PM
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Garret Riley did not inherit a completely bare cupboard talent wise, but he needs to recruit playmakers at skill positions and fix the O-line issues. Some of the fumbling problems in the red zone is because the opposing defensive was in the backfield when the handoffs were happening.
Comparative to the defensive side of the ball, Riley inherited Dabo’s ex-players as coaches. If you look on the offensive side of the ball there are zero assistants with NFL experience, and college experience is basically Clemson. I am not throwing off on these coaches. They may be great, but it is a fact they do not have the diverse experience and resumes of our defensive staff. Even Riley himself, save a year at TCU, has mostly mid-major or lower level college experience.
Consider on defense our Coordinator worked directly under a 2-time Super Bowl coach in Ariens for 3 years, and he thought Wes was a rare talent. He worked in the SEC under Sylvester Croom and Ellis Johnson and here under Venables. Those are some big time defensive minds with very diverse experiences. Everyone who talks about Wes, pro and college, talk about him being a brilliant defensive mind. It’s showing why Brent wanted him in Oklahoma.
Consider that Nick Eason played a very successful 10 year career in the NFL and won a Super Bowl. He coached about 7 years in the NFL for different teams. You cannot fake it and coach that long in the NFL. He knows advanced D-line technique from his 17+ years in the NFL!
Mike Reed coached 4 years in the NFL under Andy Reid, another Super Bowl champ coach. Then coached a long successful stint at NC State.
Our offensive coaches, outside of Riley’s lower level college experience mainly have one experience, and that’s Clemson, mostly as GA level experience. Now I’m not saying that’s all bad, we’ve been very successful, but the offensive staff has nowhere near the collective resume as our defensive staff. Is that showing in development and on-field performance? That’s a question I have, but I trust if it’s the issue Dabo will know and fix it.
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CU Medallion [20952]
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IMHO GR and Cade Klubnik should respectfully speak to Dabo and move on ...
Nov 28, 2023, 12:12 AM
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Neither has Dabo's confidence, neither has performed well in 2023, neither controls their destiny at Clemson, and Dabo is not known for x's and o's or QB development.
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Replies: 29
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