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TigerNet Zenith XVII [∞]
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Wide receiver notes from yesterday
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Jul 19, 2023, 1:00 PM
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Had some interesting conversations about the wide receivers yesterday. There are obviously a ton of things talked about when the cameras and microphones are turned off, and I wanted to get some ideas about how everyone feels about that group heading into fall camp.
Let’s start with this – we all know that Clemson made a living on offense with guys like Tee Higgins and Mike Williams and Justyn Ross and Sammy Watkins, etc. And based off of what we have seen, there isn’t that guy on the roster.
But….Tyler Grisham raved about Adam Randall and Beaux Collins. He thinks they both just need to stay healthy, something they haven’t been able to do. He is especially high on Randall (who was wandering around, and he looks fantastic) and has the belief that Randall can be that bigger receiver who can also stretch the field.
But this led to some further conversations. I was told that yes, in the past, the Clemson offense was predicated on that outside guy. They wanted him to play the boundary (the ball on the hash side), go 1-on-1 with a corner, and throw those sideline routes. Clemson recruited heavily to that spot.
In the Air Raid, you still want those guys, sure, but there are changes. This offense is designed to help guys who can move around and get open in space. And Clemson is now recruiting those guys (Moore and Wesco). No more 9-man or 5-man or 2-man. It’s the XYZ..and those receivers won’t flip sides of the field based on the hash. They will either stay left or right unless they go in motion.
Saban made the move away from say, Julio Jones to Ruggs and Smith-type guys, and they put up huge numbers. So while yes, you want that guy, it’s just not that huge of a deal in this offense. I asked one of the defensive coaches yesterday what made this offense so hard to defend, and he said it was the presentation – the formation, stems, motions, shifts. Always trying to find the right matchup.
They are excited about getting this thing going, and I can’t wait for the first scrimmages to see if the offense can hold its own against the defense.
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Starter [276]
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Re: Wide receiver notes from yesterday
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Jul 19, 2023, 1:05 PM
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Thank you David awesome reporting. Excited to see what happens this year.
Go Tigers!
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CU Guru [1237]
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Re: Wide receiver notes from yesterday
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Jul 19, 2023, 1:07 PM
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I'm excited as well but also thinking this won't necessarily lead to overnight success.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [100818]
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X, y, and z wrs are what we had when rich rod was calling plays
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Jul 19, 2023, 1:10 PM
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too.
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Game Day Hero [4329]
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Re: Wide receiver notes from yesterday
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Jul 19, 2023, 1:11 PM
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From memory, the spring game didn’t seem to illustrate much of the new strategy. We saw more obvious involvement of the TE as an example. Can we assume this was mainly because the majority of the scholarship guys didn’t play, the play calling remained vanilla, or did I just flat out miss the things they were attempting. I just don’t recall many receivers getting open out in space.
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TigerNet Zenith XVII [∞]
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Re: Wide receiver notes from yesterday
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Jul 19, 2023, 1:14 PM
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You didn't miss anything. It was very vanilla, on purpose. Lots of guys out, didn't want to get people hurt, etc.
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TigerNet Elite [69751]
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That's exactly what happened.
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Jul 19, 2023, 1:28 PM
[ in reply to Re: Wide receiver notes from yesterday ] |
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Even people who get to see the team at practice everyday said the offense we all saw in the spring game was nothing like what the offense runs in practice everyday.
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Clemson Conqueror [11115]
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Re: Wide receiver notes from yesterday
Jul 19, 2023, 7:29 PM
[ in reply to Re: Wide receiver notes from yesterday ] |
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Thus was because we didn't want to put our offense out there for the entire world to see before we take the field. Yes there is film on this offense but not our guys running it.
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Tiger Titan [50649]
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How much of the change in philosophy
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Jul 19, 2023, 1:11 PM
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is due to us not having a QB who can consistently make those tougher long/outside throws?
We haven't had that QB since Trevor Lawrence.
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Tiger Spirit [9769]
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does it make sense to have an offense that relies on a
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Jul 19, 2023, 1:16 PM
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"generational talent" to be successful?
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Tiger Titan [50649]
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Of course it doesn't.
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Jul 19, 2023, 1:59 PM
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But yet that's the offense we ran for a long time.
The generational talent we had covered up for a suboptimal system.
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Top TigerNet [30876]
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Re: Of course it doesn't.
Jul 20, 2023, 8:25 AM
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and a coaching change was made to help turn those suboptimal results around......seems like another Clemson sport could benefit from a coaching change to possibly turn suboptimal results around as well. We saw it with baseball, we are witnessing it with football right now....its only a matter of time brownie
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Ultimate Tiger [33413]
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Re: How much of the change in philosophy
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Jul 19, 2023, 1:49 PM
[ in reply to How much of the change in philosophy ] |
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Probably a lot more due to not having the Mike Williams, Tee Higgins, Renfrow, Deon Cain, Leggett type of receivers. A lot of DW4’s passes that were caught by some of those guys would not have been caught by the receivers we had the last 2 years. All Deshaun had to do was get the ball close. Go back and watch the final drive of the National Championship game in Tampa. Or that whole game and season.
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Tiger Titan [50649]
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Good point. I agree.***
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Jul 19, 2023, 2:00 PM
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Orange Immortal [62696]
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Re: How much of the change in philosophy
Jul 19, 2023, 2:33 PM
[ in reply to How much of the change in philosophy ] |
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Read my post below, and I believe that you'll agree bc it touches on some of what you say!!!
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Orange Immortal [64943]
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If this means we don't get to fire Grisham and beotch about
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Jul 19, 2023, 1:11 PM
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Dabo, then I want no part of it!
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Orange Immortal [62696]
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Re: If this means we don't get to fire Grisham and beotch about
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Jul 19, 2023, 2:36 PM
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I think that most is hoping that if Jeff Scott isn't hanging around to work with our receivers, hopefully he can/will coach Grisham UP enough so that he can coach up our receivers.
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National Champion [7831]
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Re: Wide receiver notes from yesterday
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Jul 19, 2023, 1:35 PM
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Anyone that had been paying attention knew that we were making a mistake in recruiting WRs and our offensive philosophy.
Bama, LSU, Ohio State, and other great offenses were moving to the smaller, shiftier type of WRs that were great in space.
Clemson stubbornly continued their ways and failed to adapt. Garrett Riley changes life for the program. He won’t be here as long as Venables, but I suspect that he will have a similar impact.
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Offensive Star [314]
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Re: Wide receiver notes from yesterday
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Jul 19, 2023, 2:02 PM
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Antonio Williams should thrive in this offense.
I am interested in seeing how quick Noble Johnson gets on the field. He has a Justin Ross esque catch in his high school film that got my attention. Worth a look if you have not seen it.
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National Champion [7831]
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Re: Wide receiver notes from yesterday
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Jul 19, 2023, 2:13 PM
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I have seen it. If I’m being completely honest, I don’t think Noble has a very high ceiling. He’s so much further ahead physically than most freshmen. I mean, the kid has an incredible physique already.
Since he had those physical tools in high school, I would have expected more out of him. There were more dominant WRs in high school than simply don’t have his physical tools. But they will gain them in college. Noble doesn’t have much to improve from a physical standpoint.
He reminds me a lot of Cornell and Ngata. Incredible physical tools, but they really struggle at creating separation and getting in and out of their breaks.
In my opinion, Ronan and Tyler have high ceilings than Noble. I think those 2 have a chance to thrive in the new offense. I’m just not sold on Noble. Hopefully I’m wrong though.
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Clemson Sports Icon [52946]
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Re: Wide receiver notes from yesterday
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Jul 19, 2023, 2:21 PM
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We hurt ourselves and DJ stunted the growth of our WR’s by throwing bullets when touch was needed & touch when a bullet was needed, he set them up for hits they wouldn’t have gotten had his throws lead them to a spot instead of behind them and late.
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Clemson Sports Icon [52946]
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Re: Wide receiver notes from yesterday
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Jul 19, 2023, 2:18 PM
[ in reply to Re: Wide receiver notes from yesterday ] |
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It isn’t that we didn’t want those guys, Ohio State & Alabama out recruited us for those top$ guys.
We went with the best of the rest, it was close but it left us without the talent we wanted. Changing coaches(Jeff Scott didn’t help, he was a great WR coach & recruiter) wasn’t a great plan for getting great WR’s.
We will be ok as the WR recruiting will come back to us soon as our QB shows he can put the ball on the money 💰
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CU Medallion [20867]
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Lets hope
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Jul 19, 2023, 7:51 PM
[ in reply to Re: Wide receiver notes from yesterday ] |
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The better the Offense does, the shorter Riley's duration at Clemson. I hope we get at least 2-3 years. Little brothers like to compete with big brothers, and big bro Lincoln became head coach at 33 years 9 months following Bob Stoops' retirement. Garrett will turn 34 in early September.
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National Champion [7831]
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Re: Lets hope
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Jul 20, 2023, 6:41 AM
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I’m hoping for 3 years. I suspect Riley will get at least one P5 offer after this season. Hopefully he holds out like Venables and Tony did. They both waited for the right offer to finally come their way.
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Clemson Conqueror [11396]
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National Champion [7831]
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Re: Yeah, those guys like Tee & MIke W have been such flops in
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Jul 20, 2023, 6:41 AM
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Lol
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Top TigerNet [29820]
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I'm not smart enough to understand the intracies.
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Jul 19, 2023, 2:16 PM
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But, I know the principles of the offense.
Objective: Get the ball to an athlete in space.
Principles.
Before the playcall.
1. What defense will they be in?
2. What package will be best suited to attack that defense?
3. What play with that package will have the best probability to get the ball to an athlete in space?
4. Which athlete will be the most likely to be open, 2nd most likely, 3rd most likely, etc.?
After the playcall.
1. What defense are they actually in?
2. Do we need to change the playcall?
3. If so, to what?
I am confident that Dabo, Garrett and company will be able to be successful. The more athletes you have on the field the more likely you are to get the ball to an athlete in space. Clemson will have plenty of athletes on the field on any given play.
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Orange Immortal [62696]
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Re: I'm not smart enough to understand the intracies.
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Jul 19, 2023, 3:52 PM
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You're probably right, I just don't believe in packages, I'm one of those "fans" that believe that the O or D should react to how either has lined up, but that attitude will always give the O a slight advantage bc even if the D has guessed right, they still have to react, and that's when your most talented D players with special skills should be on the field. It has always been my opinion that an average offense will out play a slightly above average D.
At 70 years old I don't have to ever worry about being a HC, but if I were a HC, my pet peeve would be in the recruiting of my defensive players bc they will always be the players having to react, and I would only recruit those defensive players that are right more times than wrong at guessing what the offense is about to do by their alinement and getting themselves in position to react accordingly.
A defensive roster should always have at least two D lineman that even for just a second will need two O lineman to prevent them from getting into the back field where the most important player on the field is standing about to make his decision, and the most important thing for the D is to make him move his feet before he is ready. If the D can do that, it takes away some of the advantage the O had before the ball was snaped.
I could be totally wrong, but that's the way I see a FB game being played so that just one and maybe two plays in the entire game decided the winner. When that is the case, and that is what has happened, I believe that I just watched a heck of a FB game!!!
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Orange Immortal [62696]
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Re: Wide receiver notes from yesterday
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Jul 19, 2023, 2:31 PM
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With all heathy, there shouldn't be any problems at WR. My main concern would be, has Garrett simplified the offense enough to slow the game way down for Klubnik to allow him to use all his talents... If he has recognized that is needed for Klubnik to utilize all the tools he has, he will either bump against, or break some Clemson QB records, IMPO!!!
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All-TigerNet [5991]
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Happy to hear that about the WRs
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Jul 19, 2023, 3:05 PM
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For awhile I thought we got stuck in a rut recruiting 6'4" and 6'5" guys who couldn't get separation in space. It makes sense that Bama had such an explosive offense using guys who were basically 6'2" and under, but quick in space with good speed.
Jerry Jeudy 6'1"
Henry Ruggs 6'0"
Jaylen Waddle 5'10"
DeVonta Smith 6'0"
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Ring of Honor [23530]
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I didn't read all the replies, but I feel fairly confident that some
Jul 19, 2023, 3:24 PM
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form of "we played vanilla in the spring" and "we didn't show all our cards" is somehow in the mix. Otherwise, the observations would be more like "Holy crap... did you see how that true freshman made our secondary look silly? He's gonna be a stud!!" I could be wrong. But that's been the pattern lately....
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Orange Immortal [62696]
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Re: I didn't read all the replies, but I feel fairly confident that some
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Jul 19, 2023, 3:58 PM
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You just described every spring game that we'll ever see at Clemson or any other college FB spring game. I've never really understood why they so publicized bc there is never a winner or loser. They are just a heavily ruled/controlled game that I personally never had a big interest in.
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110%er [9905]
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Re: I didn't read all the replies, but I feel fairly confident that some
Jul 19, 2023, 4:16 PM
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I always figured spring games are just a scrimmage for CFB fans in withdrawal…. And I’ve resembled that remark often.
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CU Medallion [20867]
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My recollection from mainly Tnet
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Jul 19, 2023, 8:00 PM
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Is that Adam Randall catching passes primarily from CK2 had a big-time spring last year and showed tremendous potential before his ACL tear. Hopefully, AR8 is 100% for 2023. Randall, Williams, Beau, and Turner form a strong core for CK2 and Riley to work some magic.
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110%er [3822]
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Re: My recollection from mainly Tnet
Jul 20, 2023, 6:28 AM
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It sounds like we may see passes to the middle of the field again at Clemson. I don't know how much DJ or Streeter affected what we didn't see the last 2 years.
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Replies: 34
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