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Orange Blooded [2987]
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Is the loss of Jeff Scott hurting our offense more than we thought?
Sep 11, 2021, 11:58 AM
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This has probably been discussed but I had to stay away from Tnet after our dismal display of high-powered offense. But seems to me we have gone backwards in offensive explosiveness and have become even more vanilla since Jeff's departure. For the life of me, I can not figure out why the QB runs were almost zero, why we didn't throw any screens, or quick slants. Seems like we had 3 plays all night that basically resulted in 3-n-Outs.
Did Scott provide the in game adjustments? Did he push the creativity to keep the Def on their toes? Just feels like we have regressed in offensive scheme especially in high caliber games with Scott's departure.
Are there similar feelings among Tnetters or am I missing another factor? And don't put it all on the OL because the playcalling wasn't benefitting them either.
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All-TigerNet [10822]
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People tell me all the time he didn’t call any plays
Sep 11, 2021, 12:04 PM
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But our offense dropped off as soon as he left. That LSU game was winnable if we could have put some drives together. Ever since then we’ve punted and put it on our defense constantly.(against good competition)
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110%er [6376]
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Re: Is the loss of Jeff Scott hurting our offense more than we thought?
Sep 11, 2021, 12:10 PM
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I’d love to see what Willy Korn could draw up for our players.
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Orange Blooded [2987]
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Re: Is the loss of Jeff Scott hurting our offense more than we thought?
Sep 11, 2021, 1:37 PM
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Coastal really had a bunch of different type plays last night. Their QB really makes that offense click as well. Not to say DJ couldn't do the same, but Coastal QB is really athletic, makes great passes on the run. But I am very discouraged after how vanilla our offense was. I think TE is just too conservative. Just like he is very conservative in his offers, I think he over thinks things and plays too conservative on offense. He has the engineer mindset of being too analytic and not playing with his heart.
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All-American [581]
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I like Coastal's innovative offense, but if we watched it for 6 or 7 years then
Sep 11, 2021, 1:41 PM
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there would be people talking about how "predictable" it is.
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CU Guru [1409]
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Re: Is the loss of Jeff Scott hurting our offense more than we thought?
Sep 11, 2021, 12:12 PM
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Yes
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Standout [316]
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Re: Is the loss of Jeff Scott hurting our offense more than we thought?
Sep 11, 2021, 4:36 PM
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Why has the assoc. oc not been replaced?
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All-American [581]
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Nobody knows for sure, but it's obvious we've lost some physicality
Sep 11, 2021, 12:17 PM
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since winning the national championship in 2018.
But as far as UGA, we tried all sorts of plays. (Some) runs, passes in the flat, short passes, medium range, and long passes, tight ends, rbs, and wrs etc.
We gave up on the run after getting just over a yard and a half per carry, and the passing game was more non-functional than the Tommy West days.
The OL got physically manhandled every down, and the QB was not mentally in the game. It's been discussed ad nauseum how the QB was too stationary in the pocket, he wasn't seeing the field, he couldn't let go of the ball when pressure was coming, and he wasn't tucking and running when needed.
The QB admitted this, and I'm positive anyone on the OL would own up to it as well if one was interviewed.
What I'm getting at is, we tried a variety of plays, and nothing worked due to the noted issues. Lack of execution was the issue.
To your point though, something has changed since the days of the, "3 headed monster" of playcalling. Dabo and Tony are getting away from the run too quickly, and we've lost pretty much all physicality in the running game. We haven't been getting any push or opening holes. Something MUST change if we want to return to the true elite.
I hope to see some dedication to the running game today. I would love to see us line up with the opening possession and pound it right at them. Dominate the line of scrimmage and bloody their nose. Establish this, and then worry about getting the passing game and DJ in rhythm.
My concern is though - we'll get 2 yards on our first carry then here comes the passing game with the running game moving to the back burner.
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Orange Blooded [2081]
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Re: Nobody knows for sure, but it's obvious we've lost some physicality
Sep 11, 2021, 12:52 PM
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The offense is predictable no creativity.
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All-American [581]
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Gimme a break. Please don't pretend you can call the plays before the snap.
Sep 11, 2021, 1:39 PM
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People only say, "I knew that was the play" after one doesn't work. Please stop pretending you know the play before the snap.
As it is, we have a top 10 offense every year. Our issue is clearly (against the best teams) not being able to establish a physical run game presence, and winning big games by abandoning the run and throwing it all over was proven ineffective long ago.
Every football coach (except Mike Leech) knows establish the run and stopping the run are the keys to football.
I think when people say it's "predictable" what they really mean is they've seen the plays before. Thste stands to reason because we've been running this offense for 6 or 7 years, albeit we've clearly lost our focus on the run game. Dabo MUST recognize this and fix it. We have players on the OL, so we need better strength and focus on a run mentality. That will open the game up and allow us back into the land of the elite.
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Orange Blooded [2861]
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Re: Gimme a break. Please don't pretend you can call the plays before the snap.
Sep 12, 2021, 12:11 AM
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Well I could say WR screen coming and be right 20% of the time. ??.
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CU Guru [1959]
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All-TigerNet [10134]
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Re: Is the loss of Jeff Scott hurting our offense more than we thought?
Sep 11, 2021, 12:54 PM
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Jeff Scott doesn’t play O-Line. We need highly rated offensive linemen. That is all! Oh and the play calling could be a little less predictable.
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Orange Blooded [4970]
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No, he didn’t call plays…
Sep 11, 2021, 1:02 PM
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Elliott end Dabo have handled the play calling 50/50 since Chad Morris’ departure. In fact, Chad Morris’ last season at Clemson was the last time Scott had a chance to help with play calling.
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Legend [16166]
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No, no that is patently false...Orange Crush was a Jeff
Sep 11, 2021, 1:04 PM
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Scott call...Tony wanted to call a fade to Mike Williams
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Orange Blooded [4970]
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No, Jeff suggested it… Elliott and Dabo approved it…
Sep 11, 2021, 1:10 PM
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Suggesting plays to run is not calling plays.
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Legend [16166]
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Oh Good Lord, hide behind semantics all you want, but JS had
Sep 11, 2021, 1:39 PM
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plenty of input on what plays were called and if you haven't seen the drop-off since he left, it is totally on you guy
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110%er [9073]
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I definitely think it has as.....
Sep 11, 2021, 1:25 PM
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we've gone vanilla as you say. Poor play calling and adjustments. I also think our offensive recruiting has gone down.
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Associate AD [832]
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Re: I definitely think it has as.....
Sep 11, 2021, 1:28 PM
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Our OL recruiting and TE recruiting are better though. QB highly rated. I think we're just young on offense with our best talent.
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Legend [16166]
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All-American [581]
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What recruiting downturn?***
Sep 11, 2021, 11:54 PM
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Orange Blooded [2987]
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No way our offensive recruiting has gone down
Sep 11, 2021, 1:49 PM
[ in reply to I definitely think it has as..... ] |
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2016 Championship was with team that had a recruit ranking average of like 15th, the first team to win Natty with team recruit ranking under 10th since Stoops won it in 2003 or 2004. We are not playing 2-3* OL, out TE rankings have jumped, WR rankings have jumped substantially, but we are missing that possession receiver right now, like Scott, Rodgers and obviously Renfrow. Maybe Stellato or Spector can step up. I think the coaches planned Ross for that but I think he needs to get outside.
But I definitely don't see any regress in our offensive recruiting.
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Orange Blooded [2987]
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But to clarify- we are missing the Homerun guy
Sep 11, 2021, 1:52 PM
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right now along with the great hands of a possession receiver.
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Legend [16166]
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So we don't have the big play guy or the move the chains guy
Sep 11, 2021, 3:01 PM
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but other than that recruiting has been great? I wish I could make this #### up
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All-American [581]
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That's just it, you're making it up.
Sep 11, 2021, 11:43 PM
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You have no idea how this offense will come together. Stop acting like you have it all figured out.
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110%er [7169]
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Well it sure as Hell didn't help it.
Sep 11, 2021, 1:56 PM
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Short answer: Obvious YES!
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110%er [5142]
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Re: Is the loss of Jeff Scott hurting our offense more than we thought?
Sep 11, 2021, 2:21 PM
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They don't stretch the field. The man in motion with the threat of the jet sweep has disappeared. That seems to help open up the middle of the field. It seems there is not much separation by the receivers. I believe they will get it fixed. Go Tigers
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CU Guru [1257]
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Re: Is the loss of Jeff Scott hurting our offense more than we thought?
Sep 11, 2021, 2:35 PM
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Settle down, kids! Dabo knows what's going on, and you can trust that he has a plan. Let's go Tigers!!
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CU Guru [1059]
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Re: Is the loss of Jeff Scott hurting our offense more than we thought?
Sep 11, 2021, 2:50 PM
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Elliot is going to look like an offensive genius today and maybe the rest of the regular season...right up until the next top 5 team. Rinse and repeat until the man is replaced.
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Orange Blooded [2987]
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Mr Lake Hartwell
Sep 12, 2021, 12:22 AM
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Asking for a friend, but did CTE look like an offensive genius today? I am seriously more concerned today after I saw this total random playcalling that had zero rhythm, zero, zero. Why in the heck is the 4th string QB playing in the second series?? I see a cluster happening right now.
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Legend [16034]
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Re: Is the loss of Jeff Scott hurting our offense more than we thought?
Sep 11, 2021, 2:55 PM
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Jeff is play a pretty tuff schedule. Maybe he is building for the future. Trying to follow Dabo’s philosophy.
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Orange Blooded [2987]
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Sorry, I wanted to Bump this because I want to see more discussion
Sep 11, 2021, 11:43 PM
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I think we are missing some cohesiveness and I'm struggling to find the lost magnet except for the fact that it seemed to change after both the Scott's left. Was Brad Scott a better addition than credited to the team as he was an OL coach at FSU. Or is Jeff the true factor in game time adjustments? I think we miss him more than most expect.
Ppl say Jeff didn't call plays, but that is BS. He was paid equal to T Elliott, you dont get paid the same without equal input, although the calls came from booth, JS gave formidable insight is my assumption.
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All-In [44069]
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I agree that we lost a lot of coaching talent when Jeff Scott left.
Sep 11, 2021, 11:53 PM
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The current play calling arrangement is clearly not working. I am still not clear as to whether it’s all Elliott, or some combination of Dabo and Elliott. Either way, it’s bad.
My concern is that we have moved away from up tempo because the coaches calling the plays are uncertain and tentative. They are waiting to “see what the defense gives us” but don’t have the knowledge in this area to make it work when we have comparable talent to the other team (it only “works” when we have considerably more talent).
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All-American [581]
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When was the last time we weren't in the top 10 in offense?***
Sep 12, 2021, 12:01 AM
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All-In [44069]
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Those top 10 offenses the last couple of years sure didn’t play like it
Sep 12, 2021, 12:25 AM
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when it mattered most.
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All-American [581]
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So we have problems when we don't win every national championship?
Sep 12, 2021, 1:57 PM
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6 of 7 playoffs 4 of 7 national championship games 2 of national championships More playoff wins than anyone except Alabama 2nd most top 5 wins in the CFP era ("when it matters most") 2nd most wins in CFP era 2nd best team in the CFP era
Best run, by far, in Clemson HISTORY.
You're looking at this through a distorted lense. I want to win every game, but that's obviously unrealistic. It seems you're trying to hard to find fault with the football coaching staff, yet you never place blame on the basketball staff.
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All-In [44069]
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I don’t expect to win every game.
Sep 12, 2021, 2:22 PM
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But the reality is that we are 1-4 in our last 5 games against top 5 teams. Two of those losses were blowouts where we were badly outplayed.
You can post stats about conference championships and playoff appearances all you like, but that feels like a weak attempt at ignoring the problem.
Our success over the last decade has naturally raised fan expectations, as have the incredible amount we pay our coaches and the money we spend on facilities. It’s disingenuous to brag about how successful we’ve been, how much we pay our coaches, and how awesome our facilities are, talk about “best is the standard” and “we too deep,” and then get mad at fans for being upset when our play on the field does not seem to come close to being compatible.
And that is why your reference to basketball is so laughable. Clemson’s support for basketball is historically among the worst in the ACC, both from an administration and fan perspective. Our basketball head coach is outside the top 50 nationally in terms of salary, and our assistant coaches are paid below the national average. Yet despite that, we finish way above what we should given our investment. That’s the reason why our basketball program deserves more grace than our football program.
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All-American [581]
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You're trying too hard.
Sep 12, 2021, 4:03 PM
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A weak attempt? You're ignoring the big picture. The big picture, again, is Clemson is the 2nd best program of the playoff era and we are in the BY FAR the best run in Clemson history.
Our last six games against top 5?
OSU: Win LSU: Loss (no shame in losing to that team) Notre Dame: Loss (starting QB was out) Notre Dame: Win OSU: Loss (Elliott did not coach) UGA: Loss
I count 2-4.
Why are you trying to throw out what Elliott has done since 2015? He's the most consistent and successful tenured OC in college football for crying out loud.
Oklahoma: Win Alabama: Loss Notre Dame: Win Alabama: Win Alabama: Loss OSU: Win Alabama: Win
Two national championships are "weak"? It's "weak" to try and throw it out as irrelevant. Fan expectations have nothing to do with it. Name a more successful team not named Alabama. You can't.
That's 7-6 against top 5 since 2015. Find another team not named Alabama with that resume. You can't. And you can't just call using this data as, "weak". That in and of itself is "weak" attempt to deflect.
I'm not upset at any fans for wanting to win, but fans, who clearly don't understand what they're talking about and are quick to want to fire the same people who brought us this unprecedented success, are not reasonable. Aren't you a long-standing Clemson fan? Why can't you give credit where it's clearly due. You're trying too hard to shoot holes in the accomplishments.
Our main issue in the Clemson program right now is a decline in OL play and physicality. Not playcalling. If it weren't for playcalling, we wouldn't have been in the national championship in 2019, and we wouldn't have made the playoffs last year (see ACC championship). When the team has a functional QB and OL, we win. We win more than anyone not named Alabama. What else do you expect?
Following your sense of logic, the basketball staff should have been let go years ago. The buck begins and ends with the head coach. Period. The head coach has EVERYTHING he needs to win, and he's not even making playoffs let alone gaining many meaningful wins. How many tournament wins does he have? The administration has given him everything, and Clemson fans have shown time and time again they will support a good basketball program. You're using intangibles for a coach who just isn't getting it done. There are dozens of teams who succeed with far less. A solid coach wins in spite of whatever fluff you're saying we don't have. We've had successful basketball coaches with far less fluff in the program. The basketball staff is very well compensated, and giving them a 'billion' more dollars doesn't mean we get better coaching. Win on the big stage, and the money will come. Brad is paid very well for what he has accomplished. Money is not part of the equation.
It's not "laughable" at all to bring up your contradictory stances on football and basketball. You blame coaches in one sport but deflect from coaches in the other.
Dabo brought football up from mediocre or less to the 2nd best program in the country over the CFP era.
You are trying too hard to bring down the football program. Again, where we are right now is unprecedented. 2nd most successful program in America, and far and away the best run in program history. It's not even close! You should give credit where credit is due, and be willing to place appropriate and even blame on ALL coaches. Stop trying so hard to take pressure off basketball by jumping on a couple TOP FIVE football losses.
Again, being 2-4 in our last 6 games against top 5 is not where we want to be, but it's a level that 98% of teams in America would love to have.
It's not time to throw out the coaches who brought us here. We need the OL to come together and the QB to play up to his potential. If that happens, then playcalling will be look better. There are no magic plays that allow an OL or QB to succeed when the execution is just not there.
All I'm suggesting is patience. Let's see how the OL and QB progresses before wanting to call out coaches and make sweeping changes. They have earned that respect.
But if you're going to try and throw Coach X under the bus in football losses, then you have to place Coach Y under the bus for basketball losses as well. It all comes back on the coach.
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Orange Blooded [2861]
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All-American [581]
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We've had plenty of strong offensive outputs while
Sep 12, 2021, 2:01 PM
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winning more playoff games than anyone not named Alabama.
I'll give you we have some OL issues since 2018, but I'm not ready to throw the playcalling under the bus. We have execution issues, not ideology issues.
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All-TigerNet [11045]
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Re: We've had plenty of strong offensive outputs while
Sep 12, 2021, 5:20 PM
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Almost all those CFP wins included Scott as Co-Offensive Coordinator.
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Orange Blooded [2987]
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Re: I agree that we lost a lot of coaching talent when Jeff Scott left.
Sep 12, 2021, 12:30 AM
[ in reply to I agree that we lost a lot of coaching talent when Jeff Scott left. ] |
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I think CTE has too much engineering mental concept, in other words, he over analyzes the defense. He us always the first one to say the other team was stacking the box so they took away the run yet we were averaging over 5yds in the past. I think we need someone to step up and either loosen CTE playcalling or we need a new OC. I have said this since we lost to LSU and it's only regressed.
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Lot o points [156066]
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Orange Blooded [4854]
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Re: Is the loss of Jeff Scott hurting our offense more than we thought?
Sep 12, 2021, 12:35 AM
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We will know if we need a passing coordinator by season's end. Once the Oline evolves. It is no secret that our Oline took a step back last year during the Covid ridden season. It will be the later part of this year before the young guys fully come together. That is moreso on our 2019 class and where we were as they came in more than anything else. A more athletic QB could cover those gaps now but that is not happening this season. We have who we have, for now. Having said that; it may not take Cade to thrust us into the next level in 2022. The line very well could make it happen for DJ. We will see but Cade will be there in the wings waiting, just in case the guys that are already here do not get it figured out. If we struggle with a mobile QB then we definitely need a passing coordinator to help Tony and in that he would not be expecting a raise, imo.
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All-In [44069]
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Isn’t Brandon Streeter our passing game coordinator?***
Sep 12, 2021, 2:24 PM
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Orange Blooded [4854]
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Re: Isn’t Brandon Streeter our passing game coordinator?***
Sep 12, 2021, 4:07 PM
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Probably. Would seem a QB coach would be as good as a WR coach bit that WR coach had an experienced dad behind him and our Oline was more seasoned. Let me rephrase that - a different passing game coordinator may be needed.
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Recruit [82]
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Re: Is the loss of Jeff Scott hurting our offense more than we thought?
Sep 12, 2021, 2:09 PM
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Yes. And TL. ETN. Hunter. Slot Receivers. And the fact that Elliott is as about as creative as a box of bricks.
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