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Campus Hero [13551]
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Tiger Titan [48975]
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he's a fraud
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Nov 10, 2023, 10:51 AM
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that's why you MAGAts like him
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Orange Phenom [14752]
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Well... Vivek may be a fraud but I would be interested in seeing a fact based
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Nov 10, 2023, 11:31 AM
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response/discussion to his very specific statements/allegations other than the typical deflection "he's a MAGAT" or some other personal attack that avoids addressing what is actually said.
How about it CA?? Do you care to have a real intellectual discussion about what Vivek actually said instead of falling back on a low IQ "attack of the messenger" strategy simply to avoid discussing where the actual information is flawed/wrong??
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Campus Hero [13551]
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This is how you know he's right. There is no real response.***
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Nov 10, 2023, 11:57 AM
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Valley Legend [12248]
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All-Time Great [90469]
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Orange Phenom [14752]
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It's not impossible to believe that people didn't want Trump back in office
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Nov 10, 2023, 12:48 PM
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in 2020. I've never argued otherwise and his "unelectability" is a big reason (among many) that I don't want Trump to run again.
Most of the Democratic establishment claimed Trump's victory in 2016 was illegitimate. A whole host of elected Democrats refused to attend Trump's inauguration specifically stating his illegitimacy as the reason (John Lewis being chief among them). Then the whole DC eco-system spent 2 years spinning false narratives to support their claims of illegitimacy - everything from "intel sources" to "DoJ insiders" pimping this BS. H.ell some even still hold on to those false narratives today - just ask Hillary Clinton.
So when it comes to the Trump drones holding onto BS election narratives it really isn't any less so than the precedent set before them with what the Democrats did in 2016. The biggest difference is that with the Democrat false narrative they actually had people in the "respected media" and Federal bureaucracy help spread their line of BS nice and thick...
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All-Time Great [90469]
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So its all a "whatboutism"?
Nov 10, 2023, 1:08 PM
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How long do you keep worrying about that? Forever?
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Clemson Icon [27824]
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And there's the answer to one of your questions... the "Retribution Czar" one.***
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Nov 10, 2023, 1:25 PM
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Orange Phenom [14752]
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It's not about "whataboutism" to me...
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Nov 10, 2023, 2:39 PM
[ in reply to So its all a "whatboutism"? ] |
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I know full well why Republicans lost in 2020, 2022, and now 2023. They have failed miserably to adjust to the new election battlefield of early voting and targeted mail-in balloting. If the RNC doesn't get knee deep into this new voting landscape they are going to continue to loose.
But I also have lived long enough to know that the "illegitimately elected" game didn't start with the Trump drones in 2020. Almost every Republican elected President since Reagan has had some Democratic quarter accusing them of being illegitimate. Reagan and his "October surprise" made him illegitimate. Bush and Florida hanging chads/SCOTUS giving him the Presidency made him illegitimate. Trump and Russian collusion made him illegitimate. According to some, there hasn't been a legitimately elected Republican since Eisenhower.
So to act as if the Trump drones and their 2020 election fraud obsessions (which I believe to be a complete waste of time and energy) is something "new" in our politics is not supported by any accounting of election history.
I will say that the biggest difference between the past election fraud claims and now is the scope and scale. It used to be the fraudulent elections claims were contained within the political realm but that changed in 2016. When the Democrats put forth the false election fraud narratives of 2016 they did so with the help of partisan Government officials and "trusted" media to lend an air of legitimacy to the false narratives. That was a dangerous turn in the typical partisan election fraud game accompanying most elections and has done nothing but further the mistrust held by many Americans of Government agencies and media. When some Government agencies became participants in this game it greatly damaged their credibility.
So no... this isn't about "whataboutism" to me but rather and accurate accounting of where we have been with this fraudulent election game and where I fear we are headed...
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Clemson Icon [27824]
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The CoVid coup d'etat...***
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Nov 10, 2023, 2:45 PM
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Starter [290]
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Re: It's not about "whataboutism" to me...
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Nov 10, 2023, 2:49 PM
[ in reply to It's not about "whataboutism" to me... ] |
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All great points Tabby, but you may as well be talking to a wall. These people cannot think. Literally, their thought process is beyond comprehension for those of us that can have rational and objective thoughts.
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Clemson Conqueror [11500]
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Re: It's not about "whataboutism" to me...
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Nov 10, 2023, 6:52 PM
[ in reply to It's not about "whataboutism" to me... ] |
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Set aside the bought-&-paid-for subset (I.e., public school, university, federal bureaucracy) constituency of the Democrat party for a minute. There is no limit to the quantity of dishonest anti-any-Republican threat to high elected office that they’ll spew forth; their only ‘principle’ is to keep their comfortable and competition-free careers and lifestyle intact. Democrat control of the federal govt and state govt’s is the best way for them to accomplish their ‘me first / America last’ objectives.
Instead, focus on the poorly informed constituency that is susceptible to emotional arguments, especially sensitive to ‘social shaming,’ and too ‘smart’ to take the time to investigate, contemplate, and explore the validity of cognitive arguments. The cognitive component requires a deeper understanding of how the world really works, and how simply giving away taxpayer money on ‘feel good’ policies very commonly creates a counterintuitive effect on society of weakening … as opposed to strengthening … the recipients of the aid money.
Take a gander at some left leaning blog sites such as Legal Eagle (which provides legal perspectives on various cases and personalities … with focus these days on the various Trump indictments), Pondering Politics, etc; the broadcasts by the radical wing of the Uniparty Propaganda Ministry (you know, the usual suspects ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC, PBS, NPR, etc.); self-described ‘intellectual’ periodicals such as New Yorker, Newsweek, Guardian, Time, Newsweek, Atlantic, etc; and every big city’s ‘major’ newspapers. Each one will flavor their politically centric news stories with adjectives and adverbs that imply ‘non-liberals bad’ and ‘liberals & leftists good.’ Facts which do not support the ‘go left’ direction of these current events reports are either omitted, de emphasized, or derided. The tidal wave of such ‘information’ that reaches the malleable minds of those who don’t know much, but nevertheless believe that they are knowledgeable, is very effective propaganda.
The focus of this left leaning media universe changes according to the propaganda needs of the Uniparty bosses at any given time. Ever since the 2016 presidential election shocker of Trump’s win, the ‘election interference’ / ‘election denier’ message has been the obvious marching orders for the propaganda effort.
Amplifying the propaganda endeavor had been the Uniparty’s near total control of social media platforms, Google, and cloud services prior to Q3-2022. When Musk bought Twitter in Q2-2022, the stranglehold was unexpectedly broken. The Uniparty propaganda media and their dominance over information, dissemination of information, and cloud services remains intact, however.
(*). Because of the terrible performance of the federal government in managing both domestic and foreign policy starting January 2021, along with the erosion of quality of life & soaring crime rates (both robberies and violent crime) in Democrat governed states and cities, larger numbers of Americans have started becoming distrustful of what they are hearing in the news, and who is blamed (I.e., the non-liberals) for the problems by the Ministry of Propaganda. Rather than giving up, the Uniparty has intensified their propaganda activities.
The Uniparty remains very effective with their propaganda; after all, they are not concerned about unifying the country by providing non-spun facts and information to the populace. The effectiveness of this divisive propaganda is seen with the poor quality of political discourse on TNet.
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Associate AD [1096]
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Re: It's not about "whataboutism" to me...
Nov 10, 2023, 7:27 PM
[ in reply to It's not about "whataboutism" to me... ] |
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Delusions there are many. Reagan had no October Surprise.
His campaign was worried about an October Surprise from Carter's campaign. The surprise they were worried about was Iran releasing the hostages before the election. There's a theory that his people met with Iran to make sure it didn't happen, and all the arms we supplied them in Iran/Contra was actually part of the payback and not just illegally trading arms for hostages. Not a lot of hard proof on that theory, yet.
There was a similar theory about a 1968 Nixon campaign secretly meeting with VC to kill peace talks before the election, which was their October Surprise fear. There's decent evidence about the 1968 conspiracy available now.
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Tiger Titan [48627]
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I do.
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Nov 10, 2023, 2:58 PM
[ in reply to Well... Vivek may be a fraud but I would be interested in seeing a fact based ] |
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I'll go over why his ideas and rhetoric are bad.
Firstly, when you go to his website, he immediately asks you for money. Why does a billionaire need to ask for campaign funds?
-He wants the military to enforce our border. Costly and will lead to fatalities (I know... someone people want immigrants shot, but let's dismiss them). Doesn't want endless war, but that seems to fit the definition. And it will cost billions.
-Ban social media for kids 16 and under? That'll cost a pretty penny. Since when do we want the fed policing parents and their parenting?
-His economic plan would need major federal and Congressional oversight, but then he claims he wants to limit the Fed's scope. Congress is unlikely to support his initiatives.
-Use our military to attack Mexican cartels? So, war on foreign soil. More billions.
-Ban businesses from expanding into China? Ah, so the federal government strong-arming the free market? How conservative.
-His "end weaponization of government" is just conspiracy theory fodder to pardon bad people.
-Ah ha... so the part where he wanted to raise the voting age to 25 unless someone under that age serves in the military is suddenly gone from his website. Guess someone finally told him what a terrible idea that was.
At the end of the day, what he wants would require a strong, authoritarian executive branch. Ideas that would have to remove Congress from the equation. What happened to the days when Republicans didn't want a strong man leading the federal government?
That's the problem with wanting these megalomaniac CEOs... they're used to full authority to call the shots. You don't get to have that as president. And no American should want that.
Finally, he's a very, very bad liar--Trump level lying. He even lies about his quotes when someone proves he said it.
He is Trump Jr., and we don't need it again.
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Associate AD [1096]
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Re: I do.
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Nov 10, 2023, 7:28 PM
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Other people call Vivek, "Trump with real hair and a brain"
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Clemson Conqueror [11500]
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Re: I do.
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Nov 10, 2023, 7:33 PM
[ in reply to I do. ] |
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Dissecting your comments:
Assertion: Vivek asks for money; that, IYO, is somehow bad because Vivek is rich.
Answer: Presidential campaigns aren’t cheap. Biden spent $1.06 billion on his 2020 campaign. Biden also was ‘gifted’ with large amount of unquantified value-in-kind ‘contributions’ (via favorable free Uniparty Ministry of Propaganda media coverage that went to lengths to obscure information about Biden family criminal enterprises [Hunter’s laptop, anyone], and to persist in proven-as-false accusations about Trump / Russia collusion, etc). Vivek won’t get the ‘value-in-kind’ contributions from the Uniparty Ministry of Propaganda; he’ll have to raise big money in order to just be noticed. Outside of Michael Bloomberg, who has the free cash to spend (not just the accounting net worth, but the actual cash on hand, to spend and mount a competitive presidential campaign?
Assertion: Military to enforce our border. Costly and will lead to fatalities.
Answer: You know full well that this policy preference of Vivek is a short term solution until a comprehensive border wall gets built, after which the personnel costs to protect the border will decrease massively. Yet, you choose to lose a misleading question, which is predictable for a person in the Democrat consituency of public school employee, university employee, or bureaucrat. SOP for a dishonest criticism of an opponent to the leftist Democrat agenda. BTW, we have already suffered hundreds of thousand deaths from trafficked fentanyl, slavery-in-kind from trafficked children, and … wait for it, wait for it … terrorist attacks on the American public. All courtesy of the unprotected Southern border.
Assertion: Banning social media for kids under 16. Since when do we want the federal govt policing parents and how they raise their kids,
Answer: Vivek is starting the dialogue to address the poisoning of the minds (especially the damage to the self-esteem of kids who get ‘bullied’ by their peers … bullying that they can’t effectively get away from because of their natural co pulsing to know what their peers think of them. By providing an insincere criticism of Vivek’s attempt to start the national dialogue by actually suggesting the first real action to address the problem … instead of the typical Uniparty impotent ‘hand writing’ and insincere worthless but ‘concerned sounding’ pleas to ‘fund a new department’ to study the problem … all you are doing is to distract the dialogue into a partisan criticism.
Assertion: Ban business from EXPANDING into China. How conservative.
Answer: Climb out from under the rock, will you? Vivek isn’t one of the Uniparty crony capitalists, labeled as ‘conservatives’ if Republicans or ‘ on-nationalist citizens of the world’ if Democrats. He is more of a populist that has the stones to call out the disservice that the Uniparty has done by trading America’s best interests in exchange for amassing personal wealth by expanding our commercial footprint in what is obviously a geopolitical rival. Surely you know this, yet you spin it to create a false negative narrative.
OK, I’ve gotten bored of proving you … again … as a dishonest propagandist. I’ll hand it to you, though. You are tireless. I guess this makes sense because, as a member of the Uniparty’s ‘bought-and-paid for’ political constituency, an election loss in the 2024 POTUS race elevates the risk that your comfortable life of bleeding the American taxpayer will become less comfortable.
I’m done.
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Tiger Titan [48627]
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Re: I do.
Nov 13, 2023, 7:47 AM
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1. Trump has taught us that billionaires asking for money in an election is just a con.
2. No military endeavor like this is short term, and it will lead to fatalities, but then again, people like you want that.
3. No, he said banning it, which means the fed would step in. If you support that, you support federal overreach into homes and policing parents.
4. Ah, so you acknowledge he's a populist, thus he should be avoided. Don't ever claim you're a conservative again if you support this federal overreach.
I’m done.
No, you're not.
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Tiger Titan [50706]
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I find Vivek quite entertaining.
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Nov 10, 2023, 11:35 AM
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He makes some great points, especially on foreign policy. I like that he's not a warmonger, itching to get into conflicts around the globe.
I do worry about the consistency of his positions though.
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Ultimate Tiger [36208]
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Looking forward to Vivek's disappearance from public life.***
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Nov 10, 2023, 11:36 AM
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Clemson Icon [27824]
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Clintonocide...?***
Nov 10, 2023, 11:39 AM
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All-Time Great [90469]
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He's like a trump junior
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Nov 10, 2023, 11:58 AM
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a baby trump
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Clemson Icon [27824]
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Well he could be a great VP as the "Retribution Czar"...***
Nov 10, 2023, 12:04 PM
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All-Time Great [90469]
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Once again, I have no idea what you are talking about***
Nov 10, 2023, 12:09 PM
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Tiger Titan [48627]
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He really does just regurgitate nonsense.***
Nov 10, 2023, 2:40 PM
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Clemson Icon [27824]
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For several weeks, and last week in particular, the big networks have been
Nov 10, 2023, 11:49 PM
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bantering about the possible outcomes of a T-Rump victory and what it may entail. One day last week, it must have been the concerted point of emphasis for their commentators to relay for the day.
Numerous times I heard the term "retribution" used to describe the likely implications were he to win. He'll need a "Retribution Czar".
It was an off the cuff comment in jest but it did have some basis. If that's "nonsense", so be it.
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Associate AD [1096]
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Re: For several weeks, and last week in particular, the big networks have been
Nov 11, 2023, 1:37 PM
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It's taken straight from Trump's mouth. When he was speaking at a white supremacist rally earlier this year, he said he would be their "retribution" against all their common enemies. Then yesterday he said he would order the DOJ to indict all his political enemies. He tried to do that in 2020, ordering indictments of Biden, Hillary, and Obama, but Bill Barr wouldn't comply.
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Valley Legend [12248]
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Replies: 27
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