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Orange Immortal [65671]
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Would you have children if you knew beforehand that they would
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May 17, 2025, 12:20 PM
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spend eternity in hell when they died?
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Clemson Icon [26283]
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Re: Would you have children if you knew beforehand that they would
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May 17, 2025, 12:23 PM
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Why would anyone?
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Orange Immortal [65671]
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People have children every day believing their children may wind up
May 17, 2025, 12:44 PM
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in hell. I mean, they convince themselves they will raise them in such a way that won't happen, knowing full well they can't prevent it.
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Clemson Icon [26283]
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Re: People have children every day believing their children may wind up
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May 17, 2025, 12:56 PM
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They really don't believe though or they would be fanatical.
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Campus Hero [13539]
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What made you think up that kinda question? Did you take the
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May 17, 2025, 12:32 PM
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brown acid they warned us about?
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Orange Immortal [65671]
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A lot of people, some on here, think that's what God does.
May 17, 2025, 12:40 PM
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Supposedly, he is all knowing and all-powerful. That means before he creates a soul and sends it to earth as a human, he knows it's destiny. Just trying to understand why and how people believe that.
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Clemson Icon [26283]
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Re: Would you have children if you knew beforehand that they would
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May 17, 2025, 12:34 PM
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Also, if those parents really believed that there was a hell where their kid was going due to not accepting Christ, they would be going way more nuts trying to convince their adult kid. It would be a crisis.
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Clemson Sports Icon [52876]
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On a similar, potentially a threadjack note, I told my wife today that
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May 17, 2025, 12:39 PM
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She could spend eternity in hell and complain every day she was cold.
FTR - She will never be there
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National Champion [7197]
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Re: Would you have children if you knew beforehand that they would
May 17, 2025, 2:27 PM
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God commanded me to multiply. I have faith in Him that He will elect my offspring.
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Orange Immortal [65671]
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You believe that God saves the children of born again Christians?
May 17, 2025, 2:35 PM
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If not, are saying that you believe that simply by obeying God's command to multiply, that will guarantee salvation for your children?
I always thought the only way to salvation was for the individual to accept Christ as one's personal Lord and savior. Never heard that a parent could guarantee it with their actions.
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Orange Immortal [65671]
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Of course, if God is all-knowing, we are all just pawns who are playing roles in
May 17, 2025, 2:40 PM
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his production anyway, so what you do or don't do changes nothing.
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National Champion [7197]
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Orange Immortal [65671]
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You said that by obeying God's command to multiply, he would elect your
May 17, 2025, 5:16 PM
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children. Does that go for everybody who multiplies according to God's command?
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National Champion [7197]
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Re: You said that by obeying God's command to multiply, he would elect your
May 17, 2025, 6:41 PM
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No I didn't. I said I had faith He would.
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Orange Immortal [65671]
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Right, my bad. You have children knowing they may spend eternity in hell.
May 17, 2025, 7:59 PM
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Would you still have them if you knew they would spend eternity in hell?
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110%er [3620]
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Re: Would you have children if you knew beforehand that they would
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May 17, 2025, 2:41 PM
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Yes of course. It’s what any loving father would do. What’s so hard to understand? Maybe you’re just not one of the elect.
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Orange Immortal [65671]
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LOL! Exactly. Being part of the elect apparently requires abandoning
May 17, 2025, 2:50 PM
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reason and common sense. It's not just accepting our limitations as human beings and therefore having faith in something bigger and greater (which I do), it's the idea that we must suspend all reason and common sense, which of course, makes us vulnerable to BS.
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National Champion [7197]
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Re: LOL! Exactly. Being part of the elect apparently requires abandoning
May 17, 2025, 3:42 PM
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It is not suspending reason and common sense. It is suspending fleshly reasoning and surrender to Spiritual truth.
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Orange Immortal [65671]
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I can't speak for you, and I'm not familiar with your specific
May 17, 2025, 5:11 PM
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beliefs. But to believe some of the things I've described, yes it takes a leap of faith that requires the total abandonment of reason and common sense, on any level we understand.
Claims that God is all-powerful but isn't all-powerful at the same time is absurd. Claiming that God is all-powerful but then to give examples of the limits of his power is laughable. Claiming that God loves us but creates most of us knowing we will spend eternity in hell is ridiculous. That's not imagined or a misunderstanding on my part; those are actual beliefs that people here defend and try to rationalize repeatedly. Now, if you're claiming that there are spiritual truths that can't be truly understood or grasped through human reason, I think I agree. If you are suggesting there are spiritual truths that are in direct conflict with and opposition to sound human reason, I'm calling BS.
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National Champion [7197]
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Re: I can't speak for you, and I'm not familiar with your specific
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May 17, 2025, 6:44 PM
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I don't believe all what you stated above but.....
The Bible plainly says that The Gospel is foolishness to the non elect. It says it. I believe it. It is very reasonable to me. You can justifiably think I am crazy, but that is fine with me.
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Orange Immortal [65671]
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What purpose do the non-elect serve?
May 17, 2025, 8:29 PM
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Why does God create them, or allow them to exist? Does God loves them?
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National Champion [7197]
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Re: What purpose do the non-elect serve?
May 17, 2025, 9:08 PM
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Scripture tells us all creation is for His Glory. He shows His Glory in His grace. He shows His Glory in His wrath. All for His Glory. My interpretation of the proponderance of Scripture is that God does indeed detest the wicked, the non-elect.
This subject is considered by most theologians to be a theological paradox.
How I look at it is that I deserve Hell. I was evil and vile. God in His infinite loving Grace drew me to Him and saved me. I love Him for what He did for me.
Do I understand everything About Him? No! Scripture tells me I won't. I as the clay do not question the potter and do not feel a need to question the potter.
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Orange Immortal [65671]
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Everything is for his glory?
May 17, 2025, 10:04 PM
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That's not loving or just; it's evil. If God spoke to me, or led me in some way to believe that, I would believe it, but so far all I have is the opinions of other people which are based on many factors, which I have no reason to believe include instruction from God.
Again, if and when God speaks to me, I will listen. When he leads me, I will follow. When people tell me things about God, it goes under the microscope and is subjected to the BS test. You and I disagree, and that's okay. I believe God loves us both.
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110%er [3910]
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Re: Everything is for his glory?
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May 18, 2025, 6:13 AM
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Your comments indicate you believe in a god, just not the Christian God. How do you describe the god you believe in? What attributes do you give him (or her) and how did you arrive at those? You've commented on a god who loves us. How do you square your idea of god who loves with evil and suffering? Seems you have the some of the same difficulties with explalining and rationalizing your idea of god.
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Orange Immortal [65671]
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Re: Everything is for his glory?
May 18, 2025, 10:26 AM
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I'll give it a shot.
My God is not a separate giant ghostly being with robes and a long white beard who sits on a throne above the clouds. I imagine God as literally everything that is. At his essence, pure, loving, creative energy. We are all literally part of God. We are here on earth, in this existence, because we have chosen to experience specific things in the physical realm, including love, hate, evil, pain, sadness, pleasure, joy, etc., as part of our individual journeys as fractals of God. God wants to experience all of that. As part of God, we are eternal. Some of us may be here for specific reasons - to teach, to help, to discover, to inspire, to play any of an endless number of roles in the big picture. Ultimately, we are to love. God is pure loving energy at his essence, but is vast and complex beyond human comprehension.
I was raised fundamentalist Christian, and still believe that the bible contains a lot of spiritual truth and wisdom. I also realize it reflects the limitations of the ancient people and cultures that produced it. It has been a long and winding road for me to get to this point. My beliefs are a combination of experience, study, and what I feel in my gut and my heart.
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National Champion [7197]
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Re: Everything is for his glory?
May 18, 2025, 12:43 PM
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You believe in a god of your own making.
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Orange Immortal [65671]
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Re: Everything is for his glory?
May 18, 2025, 12:59 PM
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We all choose what to believe about God, including you.
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TigerNet Elite [71100]
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I like church because I feel better everytime
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May 17, 2025, 2:53 PM
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I leave. I am not a great Christian, however I do feel like I am getting “better”. With my line of work, I really struggle with a lot of things I have been taught or heard, but I kind of like the struggle. I think that struggle makes “me” better.
I no longer do a LOT of stuff I used to do. Arguing, drinking in excess at all moments, living with a sense of anger underneath the smile. That all was due to my previous 2 jobs. Now putting more faith in Jesus Christ as my savior and really paying attention to my actions, I feel 100,000x better than I used to.
Sorry you didn’t ask that but I wanted to vocalize it.
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Orange Immortal [65671]
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I totally get it! I think that's great!***
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May 17, 2025, 2:58 PM
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110%er [3620]
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Re: Would you have children if you knew beforehand that they would
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May 17, 2025, 2:56 PM
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One man and his family literally loaded up a boat with two of every animal that existed and floated around for 40 days while the rest of the world including innocent animals drowned…
And this was an act of love. You’re just too dumb to see it.
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Orange Immortal [65671]
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Well, he knew that what he had imperfectly (or was it perfectly) created
May 17, 2025, 3:04 PM
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was wicked and life on earth needed to start over with a clean fresh start. I wonder if he knew it wouldn't work this time either, and he'd have to destroy it all again? Or did want to destroy it all again?
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National Champion [7197]
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [102945]
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Proverbs 22:
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May 18, 2025, 5:23 AM
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"Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."
John 14:
"6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
On a personal note: Phil, the son I lost last year came to visit me just before he overdosed on prescription drugs. We sat and talked about things between us. I offered to read chapter 19 of Psalms and explained it meant so much to me I put it to memory. When I got to verse 6 he burst into tears.
The boy knew Christ as Savior and had asked God to deliver him from the addiction of the pills the doctor prescribed for him. We felt the hand of God at that moment and I kept reading while tearing up myself.
"1 (To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.) The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork
2 Day unto day uttereth spe.ech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof..."
As Phil walked toward the door I heard God's still small voice say, 'I got this.'
This is why I rejoice rather than fall into misery and suffer the pain of losing a child. It's not a natural emotion, it's divine and it's a real as any reaction anyone ever had after such a horrible event as losing a child.
It reminded me of the old song, It is Well With My Soul and the story of its origin.
https://www.cocdiscipleship.org/middle-ages/horatio-gates-spafford-the-story-behind-the-hymn-it-is-well-with-my-soul/
I know you're not a hocus pocus type guy but this is my testimony, what happened to me and just how real my God is to those who trust in Him. I urge you to read chapter 19 to the end and pray to God that He will open you to His Word. I beg you to read the story behind the old gospel song and try to comprehend the position the writer took when within a year or so he lost all five of his children.
This may be your last invitation to gather yourself to The Lord Jesus and be redeemed. If you've read this far then you must understand that when I'm called to testify at your judgement I hope my testimony to be that you received Christ as your savior and shared that with us here.
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Orange Immortal [65671]
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Please answer the question instead of deflecting and avoiding it.
May 18, 2025, 1:16 PM
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Would you have children if you knew beforehand that they would spend eternity in hell after they died. Yes or no? Why or why not?
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Replies: 33
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