|
Replies: 61
| visibility 11835
|
Game Changer [1659]
TigerPulse: 91%
31
|
Back from Clemson and I am still utterly baffled
1
7
7
Sep 10, 2023, 9:15 PM
|
|
at what exactly happened with the Lutheran thing
Was it a prayer, a comment, or a general request put out to the universe?
Is this a normal process in the Lutheran church?
|
|
|
|
 |
CU Medallion [20775]
TigerPulse: 100%
52
Posts: 18715
Joined: 2012
|
Que?***
Sep 10, 2023, 9:18 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Playmaker [375]
TigerPulse: 89%
16
|
Re: Back from Clemson and I am still utterly baffled
Sep 10, 2023, 9:20 PM
|
|
Donde. Estas
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ring of Honor [22290]
TigerPulse: 100%
53
Posts: 18023
Joined: 2005
|
Did all the Baptists try to dunk'em?***
2
Sep 10, 2023, 9:22 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Game Changer [1659]
TigerPulse: 91%
31
|
I dont know, but after his moment on the mic
3
Sep 10, 2023, 9:28 PM
|
|
They may have declared him an apostate. No “Dear God” “Our Father” or even an “Amen”. Some people’s heads were still bowed when the Tigers ran down the Hill. I mean you gotta have a Salutation and a Complimentary Close in a prayer, right?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [8225]
TigerPulse: 100%
43
|
Re: I dont know, but after his moment on the mic
2
Sep 10, 2023, 9:50 PM
|
|
Or in some faiths no words are said at all. What the does it matter? It’s the same God, just by different names.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tiger Spirit [9891]
TigerPulse: 100%
44
|
It kinda does matter. I'd like to take my hat off
3
Sep 10, 2023, 9:57 PM
|
|
before prayer. So there needs to be some kind of notice that a prayer is coming.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Game Changer [1830]
TigerPulse: 96%
31
|
Re: I dont know, but after his moment on the mic
Sep 11, 2023, 11:02 AM
[ in reply to Re: I dont know, but after his moment on the mic ] |
|
The real point here is that if you have an invocation you really are invoking help from someone.
An invocation that makes no overture to an authority outside of yourself is not an invocation at all.
Invocation: the action of invoking someone for assistance as an authority.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Beast [6523]
TigerPulse: 100%
40
|
Re: Back from Clemson and I am still utterly baffled
4
Sep 10, 2023, 9:23 PM
|
|
Was there also.
Not sure how that compared on how the ALMIGHTY taught us to pray.
Glory Be To GOD!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Athletic Dir [1121]
TigerPulse: 77%
26
|
Re: Back from Clemson and I am still utterly baffled
Sep 10, 2023, 9:24 PM
|
|
What are you talking about?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ultimate Clemson Legend [100779]
TigerPulse: 100%
64
Posts: 48597
Joined: 2009
|
Wasnt there; R U mentioning a pre-game prayer
2
Sep 10, 2023, 9:27 PM
|
|
or a Lutheran wedding you attended at half-time?
Glad you aren’t a novelist! LOL~
|
|
|
|
|
|
Game Changer [1659]
TigerPulse: 91%
31
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [8225]
TigerPulse: 100%
43
|
Re: At every Clemson home game, a member of the religious
3
3
Sep 10, 2023, 9:45 PM
|
|
So? A prayer is a prayer. Who cares if it was an Incan shaman
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-Pro [784]
TigerPulse: 99%
22
|
Re: At every Clemson home game, a member of the religious
4
Sep 11, 2023, 4:03 AM
|
|
Right, if there are many Gods. Most in the crowd believe there is one, His name is Jesus….and, He taught us how to pray.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [10143]
TigerPulse: 100%
45
|
Re: At every Clemson home game, a member of the religious
1
Sep 11, 2023, 7:34 AM
|
|
Underscore most! Not all. Clemson is a public university located in a constitutional Republic. It’s not a majority ruled nation, rather a country that values freedoms and respects others beliefs. Therefore this prayer was the first in a very long time that actually was in keeping with the founding fathers wishes for what public prayer should sound like on a public space. No need to attend a church that doesn’t align with whatever flavor you choose (and there are many flavors like Ben and Jerry’s) so I don’t see any issue here. Back to griping about football
|
|
|
|
|
|
Game Changer [1830]
TigerPulse: 96%
31
|
Re: At every Clemson home game, a member of the religious
2
Sep 11, 2023, 9:01 AM
|
|
Maybe you don't understand. If you believe in your faith you don't get up to pray to represent other people's faith. So the minister yesterday really represented that his faith was not a Christian faith at all. It was just a bunch of gobbledygook which is what you get when you attempt an interfaith prayer. It was a big nothing burger.
If they let a Rabbi or a Muslim pray then I would not expect that person to try to acquiesce to the Christian faith or to omit their faith from their prayer, but this person alleges to be Christian and then proceeded to omit the Christian faith and practice from the prayer. In that light, I think all the Christians in attendance should probably be saying, "Wait, what?".
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-Pro [787]
TigerPulse: 92%
22
|
Re: At every Clemson home game, a member of the religious
Sep 12, 2023, 11:48 PM
[ in reply to Re: At every Clemson home game, a member of the religious ] |
|
Nope....
The founding fathers 'separation of church and state' was all about not having a state funded church like the Anglican (Episcopal) Church of England.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-Pro [784]
TigerPulse: 99%
22
|
|
|
|
|
|
Top TigerNet [29776]
TigerPulse: 100%
55
Posts: 34770
Joined: 2009
|
|
|
|
|
|
Game Changer [1659]
TigerPulse: 91%
31
|
He never opened with any kind of notice of prayer
2
Sep 10, 2023, 10:17 PM
|
|
And he never closed with any sort of prayer closure. For instance, when the Jewish Rabbi comes every year, he usually opens (I think, but he may close) with “Shalom”. It gives an indication even if you are not Jewish of the beginning or ending of his invocation. The Lutheran minister didn’t do anything but start and stop speaking. Seems abnormal for a Protestant religion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [79951]
TigerPulse: 100%
62
Posts: 29556
Joined: 2018
|
They should be hanged for failing
Sep 10, 2023, 10:22 PM
|
|
to meet the majority perception of what religious prayer looks like.
Shameful.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [6705]
TigerPulse: 100%
41
|
Re: They should be hanged for failing
4
Sep 10, 2023, 11:00 PM
|
|
No, just call it something else because it wasn’t a prayer.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [3960]
TigerPulse: 100%
35
|
Re: He never opened with any kind of notice of prayer
1
Sep 10, 2023, 10:37 PM
[ in reply to He never opened with any kind of notice of prayer ] |
|
And he never closed with any sort of prayer closure. For instance, when the Jewish Rabbi comes every year, he usually opens (I think, but he may close) with “Shalom”. It gives an indication even if you are not Jewish of the beginning or ending of his invocation. The Lutheran minister didn’t do anything but start and stop speaking. Seems abnormal for a Protestant religion.
In John 16, Jesus said we are to pray to the Father in Jesus' name.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Letterman [192]
TigerPulse: 100%
12
|
|
|
|
|
|
Paw Warrior [4936]
TigerPulse: 100%
37
|
Re: He never opened with any kind of notice of prayer
Sep 11, 2023, 11:10 AM
|
|
That's what I was thinking. I was going to say don't assume all Lutherans to be same. Whatever they are talking about doesn't sound like a confessional Lutheran like LCMS. ELCA has lost it's way. They need to take Lutheran out of their name.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Valley Legend [12585]
TigerPulse: 100%
47
Posts: 10321
Joined: 2006
|
Re: Back from Clemson and I am still utterly baffled
2
Sep 10, 2023, 9:29 PM
|
|
I'm with you Ranger. My definition of an invocation must be different than the one I heard. Basically, "thanks, for the beautiful trees, sky, weather, fans, turtles, and let's hope no one gets hurt" ........ which I am all for, but I guess you should mention to whom you are so thankful!
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5713]
TigerPulse: 100%
39
|
Re: Back from Clemson and I am still utterly baffled
4
Sep 10, 2023, 9:37 PM
|
|
Trying not to offend the Muslims, Buddhists, Shintos, Voo Dooers, Baptists, Methodists, Episcopalians, atheists, agnostics and those who think they are God. You know “woke political correctness”.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [8225]
TigerPulse: 100%
43
|
Re: Back from Clemson and I am still utterly baffled
2
Sep 10, 2023, 9:47 PM
|
|
Or maybe some people are starting to wake up there’s not just people who think exactly the same watching football
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clemson Conqueror [11743]
TigerPulse: 100%
46
|
|
|
|
|
|
Campus Hero [14011]
TigerPulse: 100%
48
|
So, the Catholic Church was selling Pardons and Martin
5
5
Sep 10, 2023, 9:39 PM
|
|
Luther began a movement that sought to stem the power of the church and rid it of corruption. It led to a Protestant movement that swept the world. If you have any more questions there is copious info online.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tiger Titan [50651]
TigerPulse: 79%
58
Posts: 36963
Joined: 2003
|
You forgot the part about Luther not liking parts of the Bible
1
Sep 10, 2023, 10:19 PM
|
|
and having them removed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
11
|
Re: You forgot the part about Luther not liking parts of the Bible
2
Sep 10, 2023, 10:24 PM
|
|
That's why catholicism isn't really Christianity imo.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [79951]
TigerPulse: 100%
62
Posts: 29556
Joined: 2018
|
Raised Catholic and agree.***
1
Sep 10, 2023, 10:27 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
11
|
Re: Raised Catholic and agree.***
Sep 12, 2023, 11:23 PM
|
|
Apologies, that may have sounded offensive.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Top TigerNet [29776]
TigerPulse: 100%
55
Posts: 34770
Joined: 2009
|
|
|
|
|
|
Campus Hero [14011]
TigerPulse: 100%
48
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ultimate Tiger [33593]
TigerPulse: 100%
56
Posts: 36029
Joined: 2003
|
|
|
|
|
|
Asst Coach [861]
TigerPulse: 67%
23
|
Re: So, the Catholic Church was selling Pardons and Martin
Sep 10, 2023, 11:33 PM
[ in reply to So, the Catholic Church was selling Pardons and Martin ] |
|
That is correct sir. Too bad the Lutherans today and of the last
40+ years resemble Martin Luthers teachings very little.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1552]
TigerPulse: 100%
30
|
Re: So, the Catholic Church was selling Pardons and Martin
4
Sep 11, 2023, 6:18 AM
|
|
Christians of the last thousand years resemble Jesus' teachings very little....
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [8191]
TigerPulse: 100%
43
Posts: 16062
Joined: 2001
|
The mustard seeds were part of the prayer, its still open***
Sep 10, 2023, 9:39 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-Conference [431]
TigerPulse: 97%
17
|
Re: Back from Clemson and I am still utterly baffled
4
Sep 10, 2023, 9:48 PM
|
|
That wasn't a prayer. It was a social commentary.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Game Changer [1929]
TigerPulse: 82%
31
|
Considering religion is all man - made fairytales
1
Sep 11, 2023, 6:26 AM
|
|
Does it really matter in the end?
Just pray to your God and move on.
They got plenty to choose from just like a Chinese buffet.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clemson Icon [24894]
TigerPulse: 94%
54
Posts: 17252
Joined: 2002
|
LOL
Sep 12, 2023, 10:54 AM
|
|
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tiger Spirit [9891]
TigerPulse: 100%
44
|
Same here. I didn't know what was happening.
2
Sep 10, 2023, 9:54 PM
|
|
Total confusion on my part. Glad to see I wasn't the only one.
|
|
|
|
|
|
TigerNet Immortal [176279]
TigerPulse: 100%
69
Posts: 72442
Joined: 2013
|
ADAM AND EVE, NOT GRISHAM AND REED!!!***
1
Sep 10, 2023, 10:02 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Game Changer [1745]
TigerPulse: 99%
31
|
Its been that way for a while
2
Sep 10, 2023, 10:07 PM
|
|
I think the university probably asks that they don’t get too specific in their invocation seeing as it is a state institution.
While I would be disappointed if I heard that as a prayer at my church, I think it makes sense for the situation. I don’t think we need an altar call prior to rubbing the rock.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [6705]
TigerPulse: 100%
41
|
Re: Its been that way for a while
Sep 11, 2023, 9:54 AM
|
|
I’m not seeing how it makes sense. It’s a prayer. Why have it if you can’t actually do it?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clemson Conqueror [11396]
TigerPulse: 100%
46
Posts: 13350
Joined: 2014
|
I didn't realize it was a Lutheran pastor until this post.
3
Sep 10, 2023, 10:36 PM
|
|
Being a Lutheran myself, I did notice how generic it was, and would have guessed it was Unitarian!
I certainly don't see how most any religion would be offended by saying, "Dear God" or "Thank you, Lord", because that could be any religion's god.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Top TigerNet [30492]
TigerPulse: 100%
55
Posts: 22478
Joined: 2007
|
Re: I didn't realize it was a Lutheran pastor until this post.
1
Sep 10, 2023, 10:45 PM
|
|
You should always acknowledge who you are praying to. Should be no unknowns. Lord God Almighty.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-Pro [788]
TigerPulse: 92%
22
|
Re: I didn't realize it was a Lutheran pastor until this post.
Sep 11, 2023, 9:18 AM
|
|
Yup, that’s how I got tricked into praying to one of the lesser demons once. But if they would have started with “Dear Lord of the Flies”, I would’ve put my pants back on and left.
Still mad about it to this day.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Standout [341]
TigerPulse: 86%
15
|
Well Jesus was against public prayer
1
2
Sep 10, 2023, 11:59 PM
|
|
Matthew 6:5-6
5“When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, who love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on street corners so that others may see them. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward. 6But when you pray, go to your inner room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret
|
|
|
|
|
|
Game Changer [1929]
TigerPulse: 82%
31
|
Re: Well Jesus was against public prayer
1
2
Sep 11, 2023, 6:26 AM
|
|
Jesus was against a lot of things these folks claim to be
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clemson Icon [24894]
TigerPulse: 94%
54
Posts: 17252
Joined: 2002
|
LOL
Sep 12, 2023, 10:56 AM
|
|
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [10143]
TigerPulse: 100%
45
|
|
|
|
|
|
Valley Legend [12585]
TigerPulse: 100%
47
Posts: 10321
Joined: 2006
|
Re: Well Jesus was against public prayer
Sep 12, 2023, 2:04 PM
[ in reply to Well Jesus was against public prayer ] |
|
That’s fine! Why don’t they say, “let’s all have a minute of silence to pray or reflect on whatever floats your boat” ……..just don’t pretend you a delivering an invocation.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-Pro [703]
TigerPulse: 87%
22
|
Re: Back from Clemson and I am still utterly baffled
2
Sep 11, 2023, 5:09 AM
|
|
You'll be OK. Preacher was nervous.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [3834]
TigerPulse: 100%
35
|
Re: Back from Clemson and I am still utterly baffled
2
Sep 11, 2023, 6:31 AM
|
|
I had noticed last year that most invocations no longer sound like invocations, but I was still waiting for him to actually pray when he said "go Tigers" in place of "Amen." No one should be offended if a clergyman says "we are thankful for this beautiful day" instead of wimping out by simply stating that it is a beautiful day.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Head Coach [752]
TigerPulse: 99%
22
|
Re: Back from Clemson and I am still utterly baffled
1
Sep 11, 2023, 9:06 AM
|
|
It was obvious it was your time to pray if that is your thing. Pay better attention next time and you will be able to virtue signal better. If you were praying when following along with the guy on the mic, then you should be good with your guy up there.
I can't help but wonder if people who would criticize a possibly nervous preacher for not saying a couple magic words are the same people who booed our players and come on forums to call players trash or bums.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Game Changer [1830]
TigerPulse: 96%
31
|
Re: Back from Clemson and I am still utterly baffled
1
Sep 11, 2023, 9:41 AM
|
|
All I can do is thank the Lutheran minister for clearing up any question about whether I should attend the Lutheran church and "give money" or simply go get the same stuff for free off TiKTok.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Valley Legend [12585]
TigerPulse: 100%
47
Posts: 10321
Joined: 2006
|
Re: Back from Clemson and I am still utterly baffled
Sep 12, 2023, 2:01 PM
|
|
That’s funny!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Standout [237]
TigerPulse: 86%
13
|
Re: Back from Clemson and I am still utterly baffled
2
Sep 12, 2023, 12:38 PM
|
|
at what exactly happened with the Lutheran thing
Was it a prayer, a comment, or a general request put out to the universe?
Is this a normal process in the Lutheran church?
Was wondering the same thing. I went home and told others about it. It has been going on for a while with the invocations at games. Why not give ministers from different denominations the opportunity to do the invocation at games. Give Baptists, Pentecostals, Presbyterians, Catholics, Methodists and whomever else an opportunity to come. This same type of invocation has been going on for a while at games.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Varsity [114]
TigerPulse: 42%
11
|
Re: Back from Clemson and I am still utterly baffled
Sep 12, 2023, 5:20 PM
|
|
My local Lutheran church had about a dozen lesbians regularly attending, that were welcomed as any member would. One day they all up and left for another church. When the pastor enquired why, they told him the reason was his church was just not gay friendly enough. Perhaps that is your issue?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 61
| visibility 11835
|
|
|
50
