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Legend [17612]
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It's the disingenuous nature of the QB competition
Sep 6, 2022, 12:12 PM
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that bothers me. On one side, the incumbent QB is well-spoken, well-mannered, dignified, friendly, generous, kind, and a soft-spoken leader who cares about how he is perceived. A real Clemson man.
The new backup QB is a natural. Quick, speedy, mobile, never clumsy, able to change direction on a dime, able to read & react, accurate, a confident & natural leader. In today's college (and pro) game, mobility is as important as accuracy in a QB. Last year after injury to UGA starter JT Daniels, Kirby Smart kept Stetson Bennett in the starting position saying his mobility was needed to win a natl. championship. It paid dividends.
As to Clemson's situation, we have seen this situation before. The incumbent has a huge built-in advantage with coaching & player relationships, knowledge of the playbook & surroundings, and experience. Based on this, the incumbent should own the position, the gap should be huge, but it isn't. Everyone from pro players, oddsmakers, twenty year reporters, anonymous ACC coaches, to casual college fans are commenting on Clemson's QB play with the incumbent in the game.
It seems disingenuous, because barring injury to the backup, the world know how this competition ends. But still Coach Swinney (as usual) is handling this methodically & correctly, because a) Swinney needs to be sure, b) GT, Furman & La Tech cannot beat Clemson, and c) Swinney wants the players to make this decision. (Just like with TL16 and KB2.) When Jordan McFadden, JJ, Bresee, and the handful of alpha player leaders come to Swinney and tell him to pass the baton, he will. He has said as much.
Can Clemson make and win in the playoffs with CK2? We don't know. Can we with DJ? IMHO no but others may disagree. As to the hate that some Tnet posters subscribe to Tnet fans, no Tnet fans that I am aware of are trained UN ambassadors. They state their well-intentioned or rash opinions as they see them. One point of agreement is most fans, like coaches and players, want to win them all. They want the QB on the field that provides the best opportunity to enhance that possibility.
So Clemson Football will move along with this necessary soap opera competition until it ends. Dabo will continue to do the right thing and try to mold young men as well as players. Go Tigers!
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Orange Blooded [3441]
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Re: It's the disingenuous nature of the QB competition
Sep 6, 2022, 12:15 PM
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Incredibly well said, I agree almost entirely.
This is a delicate situation, and there are politics involved behind the scenes.
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Orange Blooded [3074]
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Re: It's the disingenuous nature of the QB competition
Sep 6, 2022, 3:12 PM
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Why is delicate? Shouldn't you play the guy who gives you the best chance to win? Doesn't seem that complicated. Every guy who has ever been replaced at any position is is disappointed by it. Nothing political.
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Freshman [-99]
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Re: It's the disingenuous nature of the QB competition
Sep 6, 2022, 3:49 PM
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Try telling some of the DJ fan boys on that. They have every excuse in the world for him.
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Orange Blooded [3220]
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Orange Blooded [3074]
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Re: Just like Frohm and Fields
Sep 6, 2022, 4:11 PM
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Not sure why you decided to drag Jake Fromm in to this but if you want to discuss Fromm's success with that of DJ, we can do it.
Maybe you can answer why this is such a "delicate" issue.
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Orange Blooded [3441]
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Re: Just like Frohm and Fields
Sep 6, 2022, 4:30 PM
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It's delicate because you're dealing with 18-21 year old men, who for most of their lives have been the BMOC or the alpha. Throw in the NIL money and the fact that they are student-athletes who still have academic obligations outside of football.... if you can't understand why this is delicate then I can't help you.
These guys aren't robots, they have emotions just like us. This is Clemson, the young men are expected to go to class and make good grades and be positively involved in the local community.
Congrats to UGA on the recent success, but let's be honest it's a totally different vibe than Clemson. UGA is win at all costs, get the kids on the field at all costs, get the tutors to do the coursework for the athletes if it means they'll be eligible to play saturday. Clemson does it differently. For worse or better, we don't have quite the mercenary attitude UGA seems to have. Hope this helps.
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Orange Blooded [3074]
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Re: Just like Frohm and Fields
Sep 6, 2022, 4:51 PM
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They've been surrounded by people (mainly grownups) kissing their backside becaues they are big and can run fast. They get NIL money for basically doing nothing and live the lives of rockstars on campus. This requires delicacy when deciding playing time? "Hey DJ, Cade's been looking really good in practice. We're going to give him the start vs Furman Saturday. Keep working hard. We've made no final decision on anything. We're counting on you." Yeah, you want to protect DJ from such a soul-crushing reality.
Would you extend the same kind of delicacy to 18-21 year old military folks serving in faraway places? I mean, it's not the same as being an on-campus celebrity but it comes with its own stressors. You have the same level of sensitivity for their feelings when a decision is made they may not like?
I have as much evidence that Clemson is paying players as you do tutors are doing classwork at UGA. That "evidence" is zero.
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Just like Frohm and Fields
Sep 6, 2022, 8:44 PM
[ in reply to Re: Just like Frohm and Fields ] |
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This is the softest, most pansy-ass crap I've ever read. Everyone has emotions. A job should go to the person who deserves it and would be best at it.
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Orange Blooded [3220]
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Re: Just like Frohm and Fields
Sep 6, 2022, 7:17 PM
[ in reply to Re: Just like Frohm and Fields ] |
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Its only delicate because Dabo wants the team to make the decision for him. This will happen over the coming games just like Lawrence's freshman year. However, why was it delicate with Frohm? Kirby using Fields only as a runner his Freshman year led him to Ohio State. Hindsight being 20/20 Fields had to have been the better QB... right?
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Orange Blooded [3639]
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It's delicate because...
Sep 6, 2022, 4:54 PM
[ in reply to Re: It's the disingenuous nature of the QB competition ] |
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Dabo has to nurse DJ along for a couple more (or few more) games until Cade can step in full-time without the risk of being overwhelmed. The easy, early schedule allows this luxury.
It's pretty obvious and sometimes happens at the QB position in football. Seems like you would be aware of that.
Same situation with KB and Trevor. Four games was enough then.
Is this something you can comprehend?
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CU Medallion [52400]
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Re: It's the disingenuous nature of the QB competition
Sep 6, 2022, 5:02 PM
[ in reply to Re: It's the disingenuous nature of the QB competition ] |
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It's about the team and how they feel about the situation. No coach wants to kill team chemistry. I will never forget when Trevor became the starting QB. Christian Wilkins took Trevor to lunch and told him the team was behind him. I believe that is part of what the OP was saying.
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All-American [557]
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110%er [8538]
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Re: It's the disingenuous nature of the QB competition
Sep 6, 2022, 12:55 PM
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Very nice post. You are correct that when it is time, it is time but it is Dabo's time and it may not be this year. I looked back at the stats of the Ga. Tech game in 2018 when Trevor took the stage and see if you remember these names? ETN 122 yards rushing, Feaster 75 yards rushing, Rodgers 6 catches, Renfrow 3 catches, Powell 3 catches, Ross 1 catch and Higgins 1 catch. What remains to be seen is whether anyone will remember the names of our RBs and WRs in 5 years? No season is oranges to oranges with another season.
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Orange Blooded [2533]
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Huh?
Sep 6, 2022, 12:56 PM
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When and where did Dabo say this: "... handful of alpha player leaders come to Swinney and tell him to pass the baton, he will. He has said as much" Cite, please. I doubt he would say something like this publicly, it's inconsistent with his coach speak.
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CU Guru [1796]
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Re: Huh?
Sep 6, 2022, 2:41 PM
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I believe SocMan is saying that Dabo needs the team to buy in before he makes a change at QB, so he is going to wait until he knows the team leaders are on board with the change, not necessarily that he is leaving the decision up to the team leaders. We all agree on what needs to be done, the only question is when.
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Legend [17612]
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Yes
Sep 6, 2022, 3:39 PM
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Dabo stated when TL16 took over for KB2 that the players & player-leaders had made it known it was time and they were all in with the change. Dabo made a similar off-hand comment this summer ... something to the effect of "DJ is the man. Cade's been outstanding. But if there is a reason for change, it will be clear to all, and the player-leaders will make their feelings known."
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Oculus Spirit [93673]
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More importantly, everyone is on trial in Dabo's eyes.
Sep 6, 2022, 4:35 PM
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When evidence is presented to the courtroom almost everyone in the room can foresee the outcome of the trial. Some may hope with great emotions which corrupt their assessment of that evidence which may draw them to conclude either way. In the end only the extremely emotional will decide the case in error if the evidence is 'in your face,' type proof.
What Dabo is doing is trusting Cade with little at first. That's the way a good boss finds his foreman and superintendents if or when he can't recruit them. After a person is found faithful with a little the boss gives him more responsibility, more authority which makes him more accountable. It's natural not manufactured or feigned.
Cade has shown that he is much more than capable of handling a small task. ("He has earned playing time") As the task increase in difficulty everyone will see the evidence which will make the emotions of knowing and loving give way to the reality of Cade being the better quarterback. OR NOT!
Imo, they will see one which is more suited for our team, one who hides some of our deficiencies and accentuates all our strengths.
I'm not one to rush a process, not anymore. I've seen Dabo do this twice and I hurt for Cole and a bit for Kelly too.
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Standout [305]
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Re: More importantly, everyone is on trial in Dabo's eyes.
Sep 6, 2022, 4:55 PM
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I'm a man. I'm 40.
That's all I got.
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Orange Blooded [3615]
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Re: It's the disingenuous nature of the QB competition
Sep 6, 2022, 4:58 PM
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There is a competion. Its just in a different form. They are giving DJ a chance to lose it and Cade a chance to earn it.
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All-In [40936]
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who is JJ?***
Sep 6, 2022, 7:23 PM
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Legend [18133]
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So it was, what, the 4th game of the season
Sep 6, 2022, 10:11 PM
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when Trevor PROVED he was the best QB we had by a long shot? Dabo will play this out like he did then. He'll give DJ every opportunity to prove he's the best. Right now it doesn't seem so. Maybe time will prove otherwise.
DJ may have ups and downs. And so may CK. In the end one will prove to be the clear choice.
I backed Kelly Bryant fiercely. Some of y'all may remember . . . probably not. But when TL showed out I was ready to see a change made. It was announced that week that Trevor would start. And I was very disappointed in how KB handled himself.
The difference is there is a transfer portal now. The other difference is we have Hunter Johnson on board.
So, let the competition play out ON THE FIELD. The best player will stand out. I would love to see DJ rise to the occasion and play lights out. That's not what happened yesterday, however.
End of story yet to be written.
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Trainer [36]
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Re: So it was, what, the 4th game of the season
Sep 6, 2022, 10:32 PM
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There was a transfer portal then, too, but not as robust and player friendly as it is now (right? KB went on to Missouri the following year.)
I seem to remember TL16 starting in the Syracuse game (which was the 5th game of the season). If KB had stuck it out (and would have played since TL16 got knocked out of the game), he would have burned his last year of eligibility since it would have been his 5th game of the season. I thought it was a nice gesture, of sorts, for Dabo to bench KB at that point in the schedule to give KB the option of shutting it down with one year remaining with the option to transfer.
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Trainer [36]
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Re: So it was, what, the 4th game of the season
Sep 6, 2022, 10:32 PM
[ in reply to So it was, what, the 4th game of the season ] |
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There was a transfer portal then, too, but not as robust and player friendly as it is now (right? KB went on to Missouri the following year.)
I seem to remember TL16 starting in the Syracuse game (which was the 5th game of the season). If KB had stuck it out (and would have played since TL16 got knocked out of the game), he would have burned his last year of eligibility since it would have been his 5th game of the season. I thought it was a nice gesture, of sorts, for Dabo to bench KB at that point in the schedule to give KB the option of shutting it down with one year remaining with the option to transfer.
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