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National Champion [7203]
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Orange Immortal [65679]
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Thanks. I will watch when I have a chance.***
May 17, 2025, 8:25 PM
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [102957]
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Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger
May 18, 2025, 6:08 AM
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That's wonderful. Being chosen rather than having chose is a perspective thing. To us it removes all pride of who we are in Christ. To the lost it's confounding that God would choose. Wisdom vs intellect, right?
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Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger
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May 18, 2025, 8:09 AM
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You don’t really believe anything. You were told what to believe. You were told the Bible was gods word, you were told what it said, and you like a sheep followed suit. No different than someone in Africa becoming a Muslim or someone in India following Hindu.
His first point is that we don’t believe because it’s unreasonable. Well that’s a pretty good reason not to believe ain’t it? Why would god give us intuition and then ask us to go against it?
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Orange Immortal [65679]
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It's really comical. I mean the reason they give for it not making sense is
May 18, 2025, 9:40 AM
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because we weren't elected. We weren't meant to understand. God told us we wouldn't/couldn't possibly understand, so we are just to blindly accept things that defy reason, common sense, and our intuition. God gave us all of those qualities, and then tells us to ignore them. God put most humans here so that they could spend eternity in hell.
Sadly, ignoring reason and common sense is the only way one can make such beliefs work. They are first and foremost, committed to the belief no matter what, period, then embrace any nonsense that is required to make it work. And again, I'm in no way suggesting we can fully understand or comprehend God. At some point we do indeed have to accept the limits of our ability to reason and understand, and take a leap of faith, which I do as well; I just understand that the man behind the curtain is not God.
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National Champion [7203]
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Re: It's really comical. I mean the reason they give for it not making sense is
May 18, 2025, 9:50 AM
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All proof that Christianity is of God. Had men contrived it, they would have made it easy to believe.
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Orange Immortal [65679]
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In no way does that prove it is of God.
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May 18, 2025, 10:38 AM
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Men wrote the bible. It reflects their ancient cultures and all of the limitations that entails. We have no original manuscripts. Zero. We have copies of copies of copies of copies of copies etc. We know that things were added and subtracted and changed along the way.
Had men contrived it, they would have made it easy to believe.
What is the purpose in making it hard to believe? That is literally you admiting it makes no sense, and making an excuse as if it's not supposed to. You are certainly free to believe that, but I can only laugh at how far you are compelled to go.
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Fan [35]
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Re: In no way does that prove it is of God.
May 18, 2025, 12:05 PM
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The complex & repetitive numerical patterns all throughout the Book debunk the "man wrote the Bible" party line. Unfortunately most are too lazy to even study the evidence.
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Orange Immortal [65679]
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So God gave us a message, not in a simple straightforward manner
May 18, 2025, 1:41 PM
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that everybody would clearly understand and believe, but through numerical patterns that require discovery through study?
This gets better all the time!
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Fan [35]
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Re: So God gave us a message, not in a simple straightforward manner
May 19, 2025, 3:09 PM
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I guess you missed that part about diligently seeking Him.
Proverbs 25:2
King James Version
2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
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Orange Immortal [65679]
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Re: So God gave us a message, not in a simple straightforward manner
May 19, 2025, 9:07 PM
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You are free to believe all of that, but I don't believe your claims as to the source and authority of scripture. I get it that you believe it is God's word, but using scripture to support your opinions when the thing in question is scripture itself is kinda funny.
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Re: So God gave us a message, not in a simple straightforward manner
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May 20, 2025, 7:47 AM
[ in reply to Re: So God gave us a message, not in a simple straightforward manner ] |
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In what world does what you just said make sense?
I love you but if you want me you have to diligently search. I’m not gonna make it easy, and you can’t see or hear me. But im here, and if you don’t love me, im going to torture you for eternity.
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Orange Immortal [65679]
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Re: So God gave us a message, not in a simple straightforward manner
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May 20, 2025, 10:28 AM
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Right. Like I said, some really believe that God created us in a way that he knew would result in most of us spending eternity in hell. Then those people tell us he loves us, and therefore gave us a way out if we can figure it out (dilligent study?) and accept it. Otherwise, it's eternity in hell, which he really doesn't want for us because he loves us.
You can't make this stuff up! But somebody did!
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110%er [3631]
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Re: So God gave us a message, not in a simple straightforward manner
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May 20, 2025, 11:07 AM
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And that’s the part of religion I can’t get down with…that I’m so terrible and deserve hell. I cringe every time I hear someone say that.
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Re: So God gave us a message, not in a simple straightforward manner
May 20, 2025, 11:28 AM
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"The hit dog hollers."
I am sure your pastor and most of those good friendly people you go to church with believe we deserve Hell.
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110%er [3631]
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Re: So God gave us a message, not in a simple straightforward manner
May 21, 2025, 9:18 AM
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I think it’s just a cliche thing people say. Nobody believes we actually deserve that.
Do you think someone deserves the death penalty for stealing a candy bar?
That’s basically what you are saying.
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Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger
May 18, 2025, 9:41 AM
[ in reply to Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger ] |
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I, like a sheep, heard the voice of the shepherd.
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Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger
May 18, 2025, 9:49 AM
[ in reply to Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger ] |
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Today is the day you get to go to church and pretend. If I hated something as bad as you, I wouldn't pretend to worship it.
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110%er [3631]
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Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger
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May 18, 2025, 10:01 AM
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I love the fellowship at church. I just don’t dogmatic theology. Everybody doesn’t share your interpretations.
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Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger
May 18, 2025, 10:17 AM
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Maybe not, but I am sure your church believes the Pauline epistles are inspired by God.
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Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger
May 18, 2025, 10:28 AM
[ in reply to Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger ] |
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It is perplexing how you can have true fellowship with people who hold beliefs you clarly find absurd.
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110%er [3631]
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Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger
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May 18, 2025, 10:39 AM
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Everybody who sits in a church pew isn’t legalistic. Some people just focus on loving their neighbor like Jesus said, not beating people over the head with their KJV Bible.
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National Champion [7203]
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Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger
May 18, 2025, 10:51 AM
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Guarantee you your church holds to complete inspiration of Scripture.
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Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger
May 18, 2025, 10:59 AM
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I’m sure most would say that. They most likely haven’t studied into the formation and translation of the text like I have.
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Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger
May 18, 2025, 12:42 PM
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From what you have said, It's safe to conclude that with the exception of Calvinism, Your Pastors beliefs are much closer to mine than to yours.
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110%er [3631]
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Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger
May 18, 2025, 1:42 PM
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I love my pastor, but yes he went to some seminary where he was taught one view of the Bible that starts with the presumption that it is gods word and ignores all the inconsistencies and contradictions not just in the Bible but within the religion of Christianity itself.
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Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger
May 18, 2025, 1:20 PM
[ in reply to Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger ] |
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No legalism. No beating anyone up with a KJV of the Bible. Simple - Do you believe Jesus is the Son of God and died for your sins?
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Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger
May 18, 2025, 1:33 PM
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I’m not sure Jesus even believed that.
The Old Testament says nothing about the messiah being the son of god or dying for anyone’s sins.
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National Champion [7203]
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Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger
May 18, 2025, 1:46 PM
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Really?
Psalm 2:7
Then read:
Acts 13:33
Hebrews 1:5
Hebrews 5:5
Isaiah 53:4-6
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110%er [3631]
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Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger
May 18, 2025, 2:04 PM
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The Jewish messiah was not supposed to be divine, nor was he supposed to be the savior of the world.
He was supposed to be a military leader who ushers in a reign of peace and restoration of the Jewish temple.
Jesus did NONE of those things.
He lived in a Jewish culture that was heavily influenced by Greek thought which is why there are so many similarities between the Ancient Greek religions and Christianity. There are stories of gods impregnating women and rising from the dead.
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National Champion [7203]
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Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger
May 18, 2025, 2:08 PM
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That is what the Jews were mistaking looking for but they misunderstood the prophecy.
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National Champion [7203]
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Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger
May 18, 2025, 2:11 PM
[ in reply to Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger ] |
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Isaiah 53:4-6
New International Version
4 Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
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Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger
May 18, 2025, 5:46 PM
[ in reply to Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger ] |
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With an answer like that you can see why it might be head scratching that given all the places you might fellowship (share interests) you choose church.
Also, you didn't answer the question. I didn't ask about Jesus or the Bible. I asked about what you believe. You said you go to church to fellowship and I'm curious as to what you hold as a belief. You're certainly not obligated to answer but you shouldn't deflect.
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Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger
May 19, 2025, 6:58 AM
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I believe Jesus’ message…love your neighbor. That’s as far as I take it.
The rest is just religion IMO.
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110%er [3910]
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Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger
May 19, 2025, 2:56 PM
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What do you make of his words about hell - "outer darkness", "weeping and gnashing of teeth"? Or eternal life "...the righteous into eternal life"?
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Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger
May 19, 2025, 3:46 PM
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Yes he said those things, but it’s not sure what he meant exactly.
From what I’ve read every time Jesus referred to hell he was referring to an actual place outside Jerusalem where trash was dumped, not an eternal torture chamber.
Also, he repeatedly made statements that it was what you did and how you treated people that determined your fate.
Matthew 25:31-46
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
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110%er [3910]
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Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger
May 21, 2025, 4:20 AM
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So from your perspective, Jesus was not divine and no more than a philosopher? He doesn't offer salvation and eternal life, and if there are such things, they achieved by some other means?
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110%er [3631]
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Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger
May 21, 2025, 9:21 AM
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I’m just showing you what Jesus said, or supposedly said. Jesus didn’t write anything. Actually he said it in one language, and then it was recorded in another language, and then it was translated into ours.
It’s not like we can go back and actually listen to what he said.
Nevertheless, we have him saying multiple times that salvation is based on works. What do you make of that AFDAWG®
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National Champion [7203]
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Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger
May 21, 2025, 3:53 PM
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In what specific verses do you think He says salvation is based on works?
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Fan [35]
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Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger
May 19, 2025, 3:11 PM
[ in reply to Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger ] |
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Peter made a mouth confession (Thou art the Christ) before denying Christ & fleeing from Him. American sinners prayer onlyist, fast food evangelism has created many false converts.
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Orange Immortal [65679]
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I do it every day.
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May 18, 2025, 10:46 AM
[ in reply to Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger ] |
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It's hard if you believe that you have a lock on the absolute truth, and anybody who disagrees is a potential threat or problem.
If you believe that God loves us all and we are to love each other the same way then it's natural to love and accept people with different views. I have dear friends and family who I love and hang out with all of the time who have very different views on religion and politics and social/cultural issues. I think the division along those lines is often a short-sighted reactionary choice, and usually unnecessary and misplaced.
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National Champion [7203]
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Re: I do it every day.
May 18, 2025, 10:52 AM
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Pointing out one is going to Hell is the greatest love.
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Orange Immortal [65679]
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Re: I do it every day.
May 18, 2025, 11:06 AM
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If I'm not elected, I can't help it.
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National Champion [7203]
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Re: I do it every day.
May 18, 2025, 11:10 AM
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But I truly hope that you are.
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Orange Immortal [65679]
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Thanks, but why worry about things you can't control?***
May 18, 2025, 11:22 AM
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National Champion [7203]
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Re: Thanks, but why worry about things you can't control?***
May 18, 2025, 1:48 PM
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I don't worry.
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Orange Immortal [65679]
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Re: Thanks, but why worry about things you can't control?***
May 18, 2025, 3:16 PM
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Then why worry about me? Why be sad about God's choice?
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National Champion [7203]
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Re: Thanks, but why worry about things you can't control?***
May 18, 2025, 4:06 PM
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I am not.
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Orange Immortal [65679]
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Re: Thanks, but why worry about things you can't control?***
May 18, 2025, 5:04 PM
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You said you hoped I was elected. Why?
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National Champion [7203]
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Re: Thanks, but why worry about things you can't control?***
May 18, 2025, 5:55 PM
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That would be the choice I would make if it were mine to make, but it is not my choice.
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Orange Immortal [65679]
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Re: Thanks, but why worry about things you can't control?***
May 18, 2025, 6:10 PM
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Are you happy or pleased that God doesn't elect most people?
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National Champion [7203]
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Re: Thanks, but why worry about things you can't control?***
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May 18, 2025, 6:54 PM
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I think His plan is perfect.
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Orange Immortal [65679]
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Re: Thanks, but why worry about things you can't control?***
May 19, 2025, 9:11 AM
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Just curious - why do you think he creates souls just so they can spend eternity in hell?
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Re: Thanks, but why worry about things you can't control?***
May 19, 2025, 8:59 PM
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His plan is His plan.
The root of our disagreement is that you believe no one, or very few people deserve Hell. You might think Hitler deserves Hell, I don’t know.
I believe everyone deserves Hell and in His infinite Grace God saves some from their just rewards.
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Re: Thanks, but why worry about things you can't control?***
May 19, 2025, 10:05 PM
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You believe God creates us knowing that most of us will spend eternity in hell. I don't, and I don't understand why anybody believes he would do that.
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Re: Thanks, but why worry about things you can't control?***
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May 19, 2025, 10:27 PM
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We disagree at the core of the subject.
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Fan [35]
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Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger
May 18, 2025, 12:06 PM
[ in reply to Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger ] |
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Sounds like you desire a social club & not God.
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110%er [3631]
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Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger
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May 18, 2025, 1:32 PM
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Sounds like you just want to come down on everyone who doesn’t believe every little thing you do.
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Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger
May 18, 2025, 1:50 PM
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Presenting Truth.......
Coming down on .......
Depends on your perspective.
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110%er [3631]
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Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger
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May 18, 2025, 2:06 PM
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Ok you have your truth, congrats. You were chosen and the rest of us were not.
I’ll continue to try and love my neighbor and be the best person I can be, while rely on the right doctrine getting you to heaven.
Enjoy your Sunday.
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Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger
May 19, 2025, 3:28 PM
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Truth is truth. One of us is right and one wrong. Time will tell which one.
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Fan [35]
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Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger
May 19, 2025, 3:33 PM
[ in reply to Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger ] |
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Doctrine matters. It doesn't to proud unbelievers like yourself & the apostate church in America, but Biblically speaking, doctrine matters A LOT. If it didn't, heresies wouldn't be listed as a kingdom disqualifying work of the flesh...but it is.
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110%er [3631]
TigerPulse: 80%
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Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger
May 20, 2025, 7:48 AM
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It didn’t seem to matter to Jesus much.
Love god, love your neighbor. That was his message.
It was the Pharisees who were worried about doctrine. We know how Jesus felt about them.
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Fan [35]
TigerPulse: 87%
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Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger
May 18, 2025, 12:04 PM
[ in reply to Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger ] |
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No more "unreasonable" than evolution fairy tale.
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [102957]
TigerPulse: 100%
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That's not true.
May 20, 2025, 6:33 AM
[ in reply to Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger ] |
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I heard a lot about God thorughout my early life but when I met Him I knew He was real.
What you're going though it hearing about God but you haven't met Him so you've decided because He hasn't been proven to you that He isn't real.
I could tell you about my daddy and you'd believe because you know I'm not a bot that I have a real daddy and a mama. You might believe I have a brother, wife and children because you know a lot of people who are married with children.
You've heard the testimonies of many who have met God yet you refuse to believe. You ever heard a muslim, hindi or jew tell you they met their god?
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Fan [35]
TigerPulse: 87%
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Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger
May 18, 2025, 10:42 AM
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Ah yes, John MacArthur, yet another celebri-pastor who teaches the heretical false gospel of dispensationalism. Where their "other jesus" has 2 brides & divides jew & gentile. They are the modern spiritual tribe of Dan & they are headed for hell if they do not repent.
In the OT, the tribe of Dan rejected their allotment in Israel because their "coasts went out too little for them" & instead conquered a large land of plenty inhabited by immigrants (Zidonians》countrymen of Jezebel) known as Laish/Leshem. Here, Dan set up a false religion.
The thing that has been shall be & there's nothing new under the sun.
In the NT, the tribe of Dan rejects their allotment in the Israel of God because the law of God makes their "coasts go out to little for them". They reject their allotment in Israel by teaching that the church & Israel are separate entities. The NT Danites have spiritually & doctrinally conquered a large land of plenty inhabited by immigrants known as America where the feminist Jezebel (Zidonian) spirit rules. Here, the NT Danites have set up a false religion.
Genesis 49:17
King James Version
17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.
In 1827, John Nelson Darby, the father of dispensationalism & the pre trib rapture heresy, fell from a horse & was seriously injured. During his recovery is when he developed his doctrine that divides the church & Israel, thereby creating the modern spiritual tribe of Dan.
In Revelation 7, Dan has no inheritance (salvation) among the tribes of the Israel of God. This is easy to understand once you consider that the only way to teach or believe dispensationalism, is by ADDING & TAKING AWAY from the Bible. Taking away from the Book is met with the promise of removal from the book of life.
The modern Danites (dispensationalists) ADD a non existent 2nd resurrection of the righteous to the Text before the tribulation. And the modern Danites TAKE AWAY Matthew 24, Mark 13, & about 85% of Revelation & just claim that they are not written to them but instead, written to "jews".
Renounce & flee the heresies of the Danites while you still can.
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Fan [35]
TigerPulse: 87%
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Re: Big Dog, Smiling Tiger
May 19, 2025, 3:13 PM
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This is further proven by the fact that Joseph's son Manasses has replaced Dan & Joseph's name is etymologically tied to "taking away" (`asap in Hebrew/Genesis 30:23) & "adding to" (yasap in Hebrew/Genesis 30:24). Joseph has had his son's tribe "added" while Dan is "taken away" because the Danites (dispensationalists) add & take away from Scripture.
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