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Paw Master [16931]
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Does anyone know how much Tesla receives in federal subsidies?
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Jul 2, 2025, 9:48 AM
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All I can find references something like $38 billion in "contracts, loans, subsidies and tax credits". But of course, contracts aren't subsidies. I can't find where Tesla is getting appreciable subsidies from the government. Sure, EV credits for buying Teslas help in some ways, but they aren't just for Teslas. And again, Elon Musk doesn't care about that.
And how do Tesla subsidies compare with other auto makers? Or rocket companies?
I suspect once you strip out contracts the number is pretty modest, but correct me if I'm wrong.
But no matter. At the crux of this is a President who will threaten a 100,000 employee innovation machine that has the best EVs(everyone knows that Tesla has the most US components of any car company, right? https://www.cars.com/american-made-index/) and the best way for the US to get things into space, all because he's mad at the founder. It is spite and personal agenda. I remain shocked that the Republican party had a faction that thought this would be okay, but here we are.
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TigerNet Icon [154880]
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Elon might SAY he doesn't care about EV credits,
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Jul 2, 2025, 9:56 AM
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but the existence of and amounts of those credits very directly impact Tesla sales in his biggest market.
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Clemson Conqueror [11592]
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Trump is stupid for saying "Elon is just mad about the EV credits" because
Jul 2, 2025, 10:10 AM
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everyone knew they were going to get cut. It wasn't a surprise. That's why I believe Musk when he says he doesn't care about them...
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Ring of Honor [22746]
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Pulling the plug on green energy projects already appropriated & in construction
Jul 2, 2025, 10:05 AM
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Also makes little sense _ essentially given that many are in Reputations districts. (China will continue to dominate green energy technology) All the while, the Federal Government subsidies continue to numerous other business sectors and farming.
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Offensive Star [305]
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Paw Master [16931]
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Thanks. The most recent Federal subsidy listed is from 2015 for $760k.
Jul 2, 2025, 11:36 AM
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Am I reading that correctly?
For something called "Pukana La Solar LLC". No idea what that is.
In 2014 there was an almost $30M subsidy to "Eiger Lease Co LLC". Pretty good size...11 years ago.
But what about now? Is the federal government giving them anything now? What exactly is Trump threatening Musk with?
Literally every article I read that predicts doom and gloom about Tesla losing it's government "subsidies" convolutes contracts awarded with subsidies and grants. And that's disingenous...it implies contracts are hand-outs, but we all know that SpaceX is by far the best solution for the US to transport cargo to space. And sure, Trump could (I assume?) cancel all contracts with SpaceX and all development contracts with Tesla...I mean, it would be a huge hit to the US space program and battery/EV development, but what's the health of the country compared to Trump winning a pizzing contest against the man who got him elected? Priorities, people. Go Trump, amirite? Seriously...that's how petty the man in the Oval Office is. Pathetic.
So, thanks Keowee. Good info. But what it doesn't show any federal subsidies to Tesla in a decade (even I can't believe that).
For what it's worth, Musk's response to Trump's threat was "By all means, cut them all right now." So...there's that.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/world/donald-trump-suggest-doge-look-elon-musk-companies-tesla-space-x-save-money-5212586
I think Musk...love him or hate him...is the real deal. He believes we spend too much and government is too big. He believes that we MUST reign in spending, full stop. I agree with him. And I don't think he's afraid that the government won't give him free stuff if he voices this. He's hunting bigger game.
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Hall of Famer [8399]
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Re: Does anyone know how much Tesla receives in federal subsidies?
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Jul 2, 2025, 10:27 AM
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So do weirdo Dems want Musk in prison for trying to destroy our democracy or kicked back and receiving tons of cash from the federal govt because he's so awesome and deserves every penny? Please pick a lane.
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Paw Master [16931]
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You would have to ask a Weirdo Dem, which I am not.
Jul 2, 2025, 11:44 AM
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But I commented on a similar topic here:
https://www.tigernet.com/clemson-forum/message/it-will-be-interesting-to-see.--i-dont-hate-him-although-im-neither-maga-nor-37020365#37020365
Basically, I agree with you inference that American voters appear to be conveniently pliable in their condemnation or celebration of an individual based on that person's actions in the last 24 hours. Musk is giving everyone whiplash as to whether he is a messiah or an anti-Christ, from both Democrats and MAGA. I think I've been pretty consistent that I think Musk is a well-meaning and sincere player, although I completely objected to his callousness with all the work he did in MAGA (not the sloppiness of execution, but the rhetoric) and I am adamantly opposed to his take on Russia-Ukraine, which calls for what I think would be a short-lived peace above all else. Overall I think Musk is a strong positive for America, the economy and innovation. I had hoped his DOGE efforts would create tangible results...I think he was too...and thus he we are.
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Paw Master [16931]
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Interesting comment from Musk...regarding my comment on his callous behavior...
Jul 2, 2025, 3:45 PM
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Here is a Tweet from him about just that:
https://x.com/emilyjashinsky/status/1940195840196583580
This is just my take...I'm not going to try to sway anyone. But I think the guy got carried away. He is awkward and surrounded by people egging him on and made a fool of himself. Owning up to that is commendable. You'll never see Trump do that. Perhaps if Musk went and visited Ukraine for a few days he would understand that war a bit better.
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Campus Hero [13808]
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Elons companies dont need any more subsidies. And for gods sake
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Jul 2, 2025, 10:32 AM
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can we quit giving him money to blow up rockets? The commercial launches that make SpaceX money are fine, but paying for his Mars fantasy is a ridiculous ripoff.
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Ring of Honor [22746]
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Blowing up rockets is a better investment in America than kids education***
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Jul 2, 2025, 10:51 AM
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Paw Master [16931]
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My suspicion (and it is only that), is the development and research work he does
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Jul 2, 2025, 11:48 AM
[ in reply to Elons companies dont need any more subsidies. And for gods sake ] |
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that result in exploded rockets provides a benefit for practical space utilization. I am happy to be proven wrong, but that would be the lens through which I would hope the federal government applies any development funds. If Musk wants to use that learning toward his Mars Mission dream, that is fine with me.
Another suspicion I have is that Musk's rockets blowing up is part of his approach to development. It's one of the reasons SpaceX is developing by leaps and bounds where as NASA feels slow and clumsy. NASA starts with "how can we ensure that nothing will fail?" and SpaceX doesn't. So they try, fail, learn and try again. Messier but more effective.
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Campus Hero [13808]
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The commercial side should support the development , but
Jul 2, 2025, 2:02 PM
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it doesn’t make enough money so you and I foot the bill for his vanity fantasy.
Think of it this way. ISS is toodling around in orbit with about 10 people on board. There are 15 countries and thousands of scientists and engineers needed to keep that thing up there just circling and those astronauts alive. Now multiply that ground requirement times infinity to send people to the moon to establish just the launch base to get to Mars. Multiply that times another infinity to get people to Mars to establish a colony that can support life on a planet that has no life on it. By the time you spend that amount of money and manpower, we can fix the good planet we have.
Neither elon or anybody else is actually going to go to Mars unless it’s to die. So we dont need to give him money to blow up spaceships that will never go there anyway. We may as well be blowing up billons of dollars for the fun of it instead of giving it to that loon.
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Commissioner [1209]
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Re: My suspicion (and it is only that), is the development and research work he does
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Jul 2, 2025, 2:03 PM
[ in reply to My suspicion (and it is only that), is the development and research work he does ] |
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I read a nice analysis that shows how the Starship development mirrors the shuttle, and repeated many of the same mistakes. Such as skipping tests on components they thought unlikely to fail and testing larger assemblies at a time and skipping the intermediate assemblies. So Starship has fuel leaks reminiscent of the first shuttle disaster. NASA started trying to do things right again after the shuttle.
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Dynasty Maker [3420]
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The lesson here is that in a fight, Autocrats will defeat Oligarchs....
Jul 2, 2025, 1:32 PM
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We saw how that played out in Putin's Russia a few decades ago. And now it's happening in Trump's USA.
Musk should've known better than to get tied up in Trump world. Trump destroys everything and everyone he touches. Musk is just the latest victim. If he's not careful, he'll have his fortune wiped out.
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Paw Master [16931]
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I dont think this battle is over yet.***
Jul 2, 2025, 1:51 PM
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Commissioner [1209]
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Re: Does anyone know how much Tesla receives in federal subsidies?
Jul 2, 2025, 1:59 PM
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Tesla is maybe the third best EV in China (maybe second or fourth, but it's not first). And that's where they make the most Teslas.
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Campus Hero [13579]
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Wait, so Elon isn't Hitler any more?***
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Jul 2, 2025, 2:01 PM
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Commissioner [1209]
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Re: Wait, so Elon isn't Hitler any more?***
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Jul 2, 2025, 2:05 PM
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Millions of people are still going to die because of what he did with DOGE, so he's still headed to Hitler's circle of hell.
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Campus Hero [13579]
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LOL***
Jul 2, 2025, 8:03 PM
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