Replies: 58
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Legend [16027]
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Recently I was challenged about the fact that Hatfield had nothing to do
May 25, 2019, 4:26 PM
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with uniting the players after Danny Ford’s forced departure. I have included a great article the covers Hatfield’s tenure at Clemson. In the article there are several reasons why Ken Hatfield deserves more credit and appreciation for what he was able to accomplish during the most difficult times in Clemson Football history.
To many times I have read post about how Hatfield about run DF’s program into the ground when in fact IMO he deserved a lot of credit for holding the program together.
https://theclemsoninsider.com/2014/07/09/clemsons-best-coaches-hatfield-kept-them-together/
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CU Medallion [57174]
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Re: Recently I was challenged about the fact that Hatfield had nothing to do
Dec 13, 2022, 9:36 AM
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But, he lost to Virginia.
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CU Guru [1043]
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Re: Recently I was challenged about the fact that Hatfield had nothing to do
May 25, 2019, 4:47 PM
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I've always felt he was a great coach. Bad timing. Hatfield was successful everywhere he went and very good man.
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Legend [16027]
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Re: Recently I was challenged about the fact that Hatfield had nothing to do
May 25, 2019, 4:53 PM
[ in reply to Re: Recently I was challenged about the fact that Hatfield had nothing to do ] |
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Eventually Clemson was going to lose to Virginia because they were becoming a much better team. The year before under DF we gave away a game to Duke. The Virginia lose was the 2nd game of the season. The team could have folded up after that lose but they went on to win 10 games that year. The only other loss was to eventually NC’s Georgia Tech 21-19.
People have said Hatfield won with DF’s players. Using that logic you then you have to say the same for the first ever loss to Virginia. Those were DF’s players to.
IMO I think sometimes when we look back on those difficult days in the 90’s we tend to forget that under very difficult circumstances Ken Hatfield did a really good job keeping the football program together.
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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Duke won the ACC that season, in what would be Spurrier’s final year there.
May 25, 2019, 6:58 PM
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Spurrier went on to a 228-89-2 college coaching record with 1 ACC championship, 6 SEC championships, a national championship, and a 5-1 record vs Dabo Swinney. Probably not the best Duke team to minimize, they were very well coached.
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All-In [44055]
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And to continue that logic, we can say that Danny won with
May 25, 2019, 7:12 PM
[ in reply to Re: Recently I was challenged about the fact that Hatfield had nothing to do ] |
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Pell's players. We won the national championship early in Danny's tenure. The juniors and seniors on that national championship team were Pell's recruits - not Danny's. Only the sophomores and freshmen were Danny's.
I don't say this to discount what Danny did - he was the coach and he earned the national championship. But it's a valid point for those who want to act like Hatfield's accomplishments were only due to the talent he inherited.
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110%er [5436]
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Re: And to continue that logic, we can say that Danny won with
May 25, 2019, 10:17 PM
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So Danny didn’t recruit worth a ### ?? You are so fos. I guess pell won with red Parker’s players ? Which he did
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All-In [44055]
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Danny did recruit well. But that wasn’t my point.
Dec 13, 2022, 10:37 AM
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Please reread.
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All-American [578]
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Re: And to continue that logic, we can say that Danny won with
May 25, 2019, 11:53 PM
[ in reply to Re: And to continue that logic, we can say that Danny won with ] |
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armsb you are so right. Pell's 1 year and Danny's 1st 2 were Parker's recruits. I was in that group. Coach Pell never really recruited anyone, his stay was short. But, it all Danny after that.
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All-American [578]
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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Wait, you confused me.***
May 26, 2019, 2:40 AM
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All-In [32656]
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There’s a shocker.***
May 26, 2019, 8:38 AM
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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I’m even more confused by your...
May 26, 2019, 10:11 AM
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lack of confusion.
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All-In [40777]
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Legend [16207]
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Legend [16186]
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Re: Recently I was challenged about the fact that Hatfield had nothing to do
May 26, 2019, 9:12 AM
[ in reply to Re: Recently I was challenged about the fact that Hatfield had nothing to do ] |
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Crazy time to rehash Hatfield. It's been a quarter of a century. We are so over that era.
But since you brought it up.....
No love lost from me over Coach Hatfield. At Clemson he took a top ten team, an ACC Conference Champ to 7th place in the ACC in3 short years. After he left Clemson he was terrible at Rice for the rest of his career. If he was worth anything why did he never get another decent job?
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Orange Blooded [4745]
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More importantly, he did not recruit well. He
May 26, 2019, 10:56 AM
[ in reply to Re: Recently I was challenged about the fact that Hatfield had nothing to do ] |
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tried to recruit his old stomping ground and had little success. He did get James Trapp out of Oklahoma, but he struggled bringing in the same quality players Ford had been bringing to Clemson.
I knew we were in trouble when Hatfield said during his first spring game at Clemson that “...Clemson’s second string offensive line was better than his first string offensive line at Arkansas.”
Not good.
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All-In [44055]
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He was a better coach than most here give him credit for.
May 25, 2019, 4:48 PM
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It’s easy to make it sound like he squandered national champ caliber talent, but there was no indication that Danny Ford would’ve had better results in ‘90 or ‘91. We won 9 games in ‘90 and 10 games in ‘91, which is on par with how Danny did in his last few years at Clemson (10 wins each in ‘87, ‘88, and ‘89. The talk on here about how Danny was going to win another national championship at Clemson was just wishful thinking. He had consistently been 10-2, and we were a top 10-15 program in the late ‘80s - not a top 5 team competing for national titles. As great as our defenses were then, we simply didn’t have the offense to go undefeated (or even lose only 1 game a year).
Hatfield was in a tough position when he was hired. The program was being investigated by the NCAA again after just completing probation a few years prior. Plus, the fan base was divided and some even undermined Hatfield’s efforts. I don’t think he was the right coach for us, but I’m not sure anyone was at the time, given the situation and circumstances.
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110%er [5266]
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Re: Credit, my a$$....
May 26, 2019, 10:40 AM
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he was lazy. He could not and would not recruit. He showed no respect for Clemson coming in the door. he showed no respect going out the door. He was not a game day coach in any sense of the word. He may have been a nice guy to some, but his personality was a nerd. Exactly what are we supposed to give him credit for ?
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Legend [16507]
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He deserves NO credit for that trucker's hat!
May 25, 2019, 4:56 PM
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Commissioner [930]
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Ken Left.....
May 25, 2019, 4:59 PM
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with an 8-3 record that year. As other have stated and have stated over the years that Ken was and is a good christian man. Those same values are the things we love about Dabo .
Ken wasn't given a fair shake in my opinion and Clemson paid dearly for that mistake by having West as our coach .
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Legend [16027]
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Re: Ken Left.....
May 25, 2019, 5:03 PM
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If I could I would give 100 TU’s because you are correct. Had we given KH more support we may have had a nice run in the 90’s.
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Orange Blooded [2828]
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Re: He deserves NO credit for that trucker's hat!
May 25, 2019, 7:10 PM
[ in reply to He deserves NO credit for that trucker's hat! ] |
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I hate those hats! It doesn't matter who you are you'll look stupid wearing one of those!??
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All-In [40936]
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I had one of those caps, bought a purple shirt with a
May 26, 2019, 1:24 PM
[ in reply to He deserves NO credit for that trucker's hat! ] |
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tigerpaw on it. I hated to see Danny go, made me nauseous. I thought Hatfield was a good hire and supported him. Sat through the 57-0 game, it wasn't that close the second team could have scored 57 on us, after beating FSU just a couple years earlier. It was bad, we were so far behind in just a couple short years. Getting shut out by unc that year didn't help either and neither did losing to Wake, when Wake was really bad. They only beat App St. and Clemson that year.
I was so happy to see Hatfield fired. He destroyed our program, with help from the AD and President.
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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Revisionist history
May 25, 2019, 5:07 PM
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making the facts fit the storyline.......as one who lived through it, Hatfield seemed to be a good person, mediocre coach, his wife HATED living in Clemson and alienated a bunch of loyal fans (some of whom behaved VERY badly after Coach Ford's departure) with her attitude,.....there is much to be said about being the guy to follow a legend....and in this case, I suppose it was true. Regardless, Clemson fans paid for any lingering guilt about Hatfield with the record during Coach West's tenure
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All-In [44055]
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I don't know details about his wife or how she treated some
May 25, 2019, 7:16 PM
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people. But I can't really blame her for wondering what kind of alternate universe she and her husband had entered during their first trip to Clemson. When they arrived to the press conference, they were greeted by a chorus of boos. It was an embarrassing time in Clemson's history.
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Orange Blooded [3384]
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Re: Revisionist history
May 25, 2019, 8:17 PM
[ in reply to Revisionist history ] |
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I knew Sandy Hatfield when she was alive and also know that she loved living in Clemson. What she hated was the way that Danny Ford supporters talked about her husband. She was one of the nicest persons I have ever known. If she alienated some Clemson supporters it was probably because of the way you treated her and her husband. I went to church with them both and they were so open and friendly. They helped people that no one ever knew anything about who was providing the resources. Even now the last I heard Ken had remarried and was volunteering with meals on wheels. You may not have liked them but don't question their character.
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Orange Blooded [3384]
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Re: Revisionist history
May 25, 2019, 8:59 PM
[ in reply to Revisionist history ] |
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I'll also remind you of her first meeting with Clemson people.
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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lol....was that the first time she publicly complained about
May 26, 2019, 12:23 PM
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the lack of facilities for her barrel-racing horses? Sorry to make you so defensive--Never impugned the "character" of either Hatfield nor his missus---as I said in the post he seemed like a good guy. But what I posted was widely acknowledged around the Clemson community....and she probably was weary of reacting to comments made by some of Coach Ford's more irrationally upset fans.
You can believe what you like about your fellow church-members glad to hear they practiced their Christian beliefs by helping others.
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Athletic Dir [887]
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Re: Recently I was challenged about the fact that Hatfield had nothing to do
May 25, 2019, 5:10 PM
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Hatfield was a DOLT! When Danny's boys were gone, so was the program! Completely moronic, subject and author! How were they "Held together"? The sweater was unraveled in 3 short years! He inherited the "Absolute Best Defense" in College football as well as one of the best in Clemson History! His "want" to make Choir boys of the players in that era was ridiculous. You don't change the culture by forcing your will on the young men, you recruit the young men that will maintain that culture.
It took Dabo 5 years, after 16 years in the wilderness, to rebuild it. Hatfield wasn't the criminal in the tragedy, but he d*mn sure wasn't a savior and far and away NOT one of Clemson's best coaches. How in the H3ll do you compare his 1990 record (see above about D) with Heisman? SMDH! Max Lennon was the criminal and shall remain a bad taste in all Clemson fans mouth's that were of age to remember his big ego and simple mind! May he never rest easy!
Hatfield held it together!!! REDAMNDICULOUS!
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All-TigerNet [11067]
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so you agree with the OP?***
May 25, 2019, 5:19 PM
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Commissioner [942]
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Athletic Dir [855]
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Well that's a bunch of
May 25, 2019, 5:10 PM
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sugar...
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CU Guru [1837]
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Re: Recently I was challenged about the fact that Hatfield had nothing to do
May 25, 2019, 5:28 PM
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Never thought I would see Ken Hatfield and Clemson's best coaches together in the same sentence. I remember those years and they were not good. Our recruiting fell off a cliff when Hatfield took over.
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Legend [16027]
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Re: Recently I was challenged about the fact that Hatfield had nothing to do
May 25, 2019, 5:45 PM
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Some of the failures in recruiting can be traced directly to Clemson players, boosters, alumni and fans who made every effort to sabotage Hatfield’s recruiting efforts. Recruit’s were told by Clemson people not to come to Clemson in an effort to get rid of KH. It’s hard to recruit when there was so much turmoil due to DF being forced out and the fans at war with the administration.
Many continue to lay all the blame on Coach Hatfield while Clemson people refuse to accept any responsibility for their contributions which lead to the decline of the football program. There are some exceptions especially among those who played for KH.
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Varsity [237]
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Heisman Winner [140604]
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Howard built it, Ford filled it...
May 25, 2019, 5:47 PM
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Hatfield killed it.
Or so the t-shirt said.
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All-In [40936]
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Bring back Hatfield's flexbone
May 26, 2019, 1:30 PM
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said no Clemson fan ever.
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CU Guru [1250]
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Consider the Author
May 25, 2019, 5:59 PM
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Enough said.
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Orange Blooded [3812]
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Re: Recently I was challenged about the fact that Hatfield had nothing to do
May 25, 2019, 7:46 PM
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Ran into him at Knickerbockers and he was a complete azzhole. In my mind He gets no credit for anything1
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Orange Blooded [4142]
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Re: Recently I was challenged about the fact that Hatfield had nothing to do
May 25, 2019, 8:14 PM
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Wth was he doing at Knickerbockers ?
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Orange Blooded [3384]
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Re: Recently I was challenged about the fact that Hatfield had nothing to do
May 25, 2019, 9:01 PM
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I'm calling BS on this story. Ken lives in Arkansas and rarely leaves the state.
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Orange Blooded [3812]
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Re: Recently I was challenged about the fact that Hatfield had nothing to do
May 25, 2019, 9:22 PM
[ in reply to Re: Recently I was challenged about the fact that Hatfield had nothing to do ] |
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He actually was buying hats for some of his friends coming into town! Several people spoke to Him and He never said anything to anybody. Would not speak. He was "better" than any of the Clemson fans. In my mind a jerk. Everyone else in the store thought the same!
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All-In [44055]
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Well, based on how some Clemson fans treated him
May 25, 2019, 11:33 PM
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from the moment he was hired, I’d agree that he was better.
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Rock Defender [72]
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He may well deserve praise for handling the transition...BUT
May 25, 2019, 8:02 PM
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He also is responsible for the drop off starting in 92. The article glazes over his full tenure.
By the logic posted below, he still had juniors and senior's who were Danny's players in 1992 and went 5-6 including losses to Maryland and Wake Forest. The NCAA investigation ended well before and the alleged negative recruiting can't be used as a get out of jail free card.
He also make some terrible hires after the bulk of Danny's staff left, such as Ron Dickerson who is potentially the worst DC in Clemson history.
I do agree that he was in an almost impossible situation and he was a darn good game day coach, but he was not enough of a leader or recruiter to be able to maintain the momentum that Danny had built with the program. Anyone who can pull their starting CB over to QB and implement enough of an offense game plan to beat a top 25ish Virginia team proves they can coach and call a good game.
People who weren't following the program then don't really remember what momentum the program had coming off the 1989 season destroying Major Harris and WVU in the Peach Bowl and having two QBs coming back who were much more talented than Morocco or Rodney with a roster of future NFL guys on D.
My take is we would have lost no more than 1 game in 90 with Ford coaching, but we will never know.
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Orange Blooded [3384]
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Re: He may well deserve praise for handling the transition...BUT
May 25, 2019, 8:56 PM
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You evidently did not live in this area of the country when Ken Hatfield was coach. The negative recruiting was a fact and it was the so called Clemson fans who were really Danny Ford fans. This group of people believed that if they destroyed Ken then Clemson would be forced to hire Danny back as head coach. This thought process failed and sent Clemson into many years of mediocre years as a football program. There was not a coach in America who could be successful under these conditions. Dabo could not have survived the conditions Ken inherited. Do I think he was one of the best coaches in Clemson history, no. But I also don't blame what happened in the 90's on him, I blame the Danny Ford supporters.
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CU Guru [1614]
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After reading the article, it sounds like the team
May 25, 2019, 8:27 PM
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Stayed united primarily through efforts led by the players themselves - specifically team leaders like Kirkland. They called a players-only meeting and decided it was in their best interest to back Hatfield. Other than saying a few words to the fans(after being prodded by Howard), there's not much evidence in the article that Hatfield himself actually DID much to "keep them together".
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Orange Blooded [2218]
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he couldn't recruit, thats why his winning slowed after
May 25, 2019, 8:45 PM
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Fords players left.Ford recruited the state of Ga. hard.I remember Hatfields 1st class had only 1 player from Ga. He when back to the Texas Ark. area to recruit and signed only 1 player from La. I think. I realize Fords cheated & that might have helped but most schools did then to include Ga. & u of sc
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Varsity [205]
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Re: Recently I was challenged about the fact that Hatfield had nothing to do
May 25, 2019, 9:54 PM
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with uniting the players after Danny Ford’s forced departure. I have included a great article the covers Hatfield’s tenure at Clemson. In the article there are several reasons why Ken Hatfield deserves more credit and appreciation for what he was able to accomplish during the most difficult times in Clemson Football history. To many times I have read post about how Hatfield about run DF’s program into the ground when in fact IMO he deserved a lot of credit for holding the program together. https://theclemsoninsider.com/2014/07/09/clemsons-best-coaches-hatfield-kept-them-together/
Sorry, you are nuts. I guess you just had to be there.
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110%er [5436]
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Re: Recently I was challenged about the fact that Hatfield had nothing to do
May 25, 2019, 10:11 PM
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Just look at the shirt
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CU Guru [1836]
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Re: Hatfield was dumb as a rock
May 25, 2019, 11:50 PM
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At NC State just before halftime we were in FG range. No timeouts and 24 secs or so on the clock. Hatfield runs the ball, then trys to rush the FG squad onto the field. The NCS players were laughing and moving as slow as syrup. Of course, time runs out before we could line up to kick. When asked why the running play, Hatfield said we've done that in practice and it worked every time. Yeah, right, I doubt the practice squad on defense was laughing and laying around like an opponent would obviously do. Remember the night game at UGay when we were favored and lost 20-7 or close to that? We had a great option team, Danny's players, the ESPN announcers kept saying how Georgia had problems stopping the run and this was Clemson's strength. Look for Clemson to run the option and see if Georgia can find any way to slow it down. We did run an option play and it went 40 or more yards for a TD. That was the ONLY time Hatfield ran the option. He kept trying to throw the ball with a QB who couldn't throw against a team that couldn't stop the run. Later Little Vanderbilt just killed UGay running the ball. Don't tell me he deserved better. Yes he was and is a great person. But a football coach at our level, no way.
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Orange Blooded [2420]
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Re: Recently I was challenged about the fact that Hatfield had nothing to do
May 26, 2019, 3:39 AM
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I'm glad he's not here. Funny how many make him out to be great . . again, I'm glad he isn't here.
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Legend [17626]
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You simply don't want to be the guy to follow THE GUY.
May 26, 2019, 8:23 AM
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Without looking it up, anybody remember who followed Bear Bryant? Tom Osborne? Barry Switzer? Woody Hayes?
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Freshman [-32]
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Is there a "Wear what the Coaches wear"
May 26, 2019, 8:43 AM
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Link for Hatfield era gear?
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All-In [29877]
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I'm pretty sure the entire SW Conference except Ark was on
May 26, 2019, 8:54 AM
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probation when Hatfield came over, so I imagine part of his success there in the late 80's was partially a result of that. He definitely stepped into a lion's den, but his reaction seemed cold and defensive too. It's understandable, but even with Howard stepping up to vouch for him, our fans were really harsh, and he never seemed able to rise above the fray with his leadership. More like he sunk down into the negativity, got really defensive, and went into a bunker. As far as recruiting, It definitely dived. I remember reading one of the magazines at the time and they were lauding our top recruit in the cycle...a kicker. I thought, that doesn't sound too good. How about a top flight QB, or DE, or WR? Turns out the kid was pretty good, but also turned out he was the best of the class I think, and that was bad.
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Legend [16186]
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Re: I'm pretty sure the entire SW Conference except Ark was on***
May 26, 2019, 9:04 AM
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Legend [16186]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 8524
Joined: 11/30/98
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Legend [16186]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 8524
Joined: 11/30/98
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Re: Recently I was challenged about the fact that Hatfield had nothing to do***
May 26, 2019, 9:04 AM
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All-In [29877]
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In retrospect I think there was just too much vitriol for
May 26, 2019, 9:05 AM
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anyone to succeed. It has been done, like when Osborne followed Devaney, and Switzer followed Fairbanks, and a string of good Coaches one after another in Miami. But the big difference is those guys didn't go out like Danny, and the fanbases were more accepting because it was a smoother transition. But the expectations were SO high, and the blood was so bad, anything short of a NC was going to be a letdown, because that's what we expected was coming given our recent success. Hatfield's first two seasons were still pretty darn good. It's not like he cratered from the start. They just didn't meet expectations, and a lot of the the fans were out for blood.
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