I’m all for immigration

Any limiting factors?

Might add willingness to pick tomatoes, work in chicken processing plants …

This country was founded by immigrants and welcoming the oppressed that look to work hard to make a new life in a free country is what America is all about.

That's a part of what it's about.

1. Make it easier to immigrate - the process entirely too long and complicated, right?

I don't know. Maybe.

3. Fund the immigration department and give them the resources to do their job, spending more money what could be easier for politicians to agree on, right????

Maybe, but I'd be very careful about giving the federal government more money. Besides, none of this is the cause of the problem we are seeing at the border today, nor will addressing these things in any way resolve it. The problem today is caused by idiotic policies and rhetoric that have not only failed to protect the border from ILLEGAL entry, but have actually encouraged it.

Do we need immigration reform? Maybe, probably perhaps; in the big picture, going forward. None of that is driving the crisis we are facing today, however. Our government needs to make sure that everyone understands that illegal entry into our country will not be permitted, and our government absolutely must allocate necessary resources, TODAY, make sure it does not occur. For the good of our own citizens, our own sovereignty, and the integrity of our laws, must turn away any illegal entry attempts. That means anyone not willing to go through the current legal process. Instead, people are showing up expecting to get in without that; we must not allow it. What we are facing today is not about whether or not immigration is a good or bad thing; or whether or not downtrodden people from poor, bad countries and unfortunate situations deserve a chance, and framing it that way is a pile of garbage.

Tiggity®

Oculus Spirit [97665]

TigerPulse: 100%

Posts: 64805

Joined: 7/13/02

That all sounds nice. But you have to ask yourself, why?

May 12, 2023, 9:22 AM

Why do we have this "problem"? Why has nothing ever been done about it? Why has Congress not reformed immigration laws? Why has Congress punted enforcement to the whims of the President in the executive branch? Why is it never fixed? Why can a President selectively enforce the laws as passed by Congress, and/or create new laws under the guise of regulation in the executive branch? One could argue a President's unwillingness to enforce a law, as passed by Congress and signed by previous Presidents as an impeachable offense, technically.

The sad fact is the United States actually prospers, mightily, on what we consider to be our greatest "problems". That's just a sad but true fact. No politician would ever admit that, but most economists know it.

Let's just look at some of our biggest "problems" that are never solved, or resolved. Trade deficits? High, and always increasing, for decades now. A problem. This has crippled our manufacturing and industrial base and consequently our middle class, yet we prosper. Illegal immigration? A problem. They come in and take American jobs, is the argument. In reality they supplement American jobs, they do those that pay the least and require the most labor, allowing Americans to upgrade their own jobs. National debt? A problem. Why is it never addressed except in rhetoric? Because debt allows spending and spending wins votes. Why has no GOP President, even with a GOP Congress, reduced the debt? Stopped illegal immigration? Balanced our trade deficit?

Imagine for a second that these three "problems" were suddenly "fixed", like today, 100% fixed. Heck, give it 3 months to "fix" them. We balance our budget (forget paying down the debt already owed), we stop all illegal immigration, AND expel all illegals here already. And we balance our trade deficit with tariffs equal to those levied against us. What would be the result of fixing the problems? We would need to find about 10 million people to do the jobs illegals do now. Yet here we sit with 3.4% unemployment. So shortages. Detroit can't make cars, because those cheap chips from Taiwan and Korea are more expensive now. Electronics, everything electronic, was expensive in the 80's, and dirt cheap today. That's NOT due to American jobs, I promise. And the government actually cuts spending to less than what it takes in with revenue. That's a cool $1T right off the top.

We run a beautifully orchestrated economic system, largely born in the 80's under Reagan. Much of the way it functions, or dysfunctions, is based on the lessons of the 70's and Carter. It is wholly leveraged on the American dollar, and that is wholly leveraged on our superpower military status. If we confine the value to the dollar to Americans only, we lose the greatest potential we can enjoy by diluting that dollar with cheaper overseas labor. It is a global system we run, and only the US can run it because only the US can pull it off. It is not dissimilar to worldwide economic systems enacted by past empires throughout history.

We have a much. much bigger problem than illegal immigration, debt, and trade deficits. And that is the system that encourages and prospers on illegal immigration, debt, and trade deficits. We presently enjoy a level of demand that American labor alone could NEVER supply. Rome enjoyed a level of demand that Roman labor could never supply. England enjoyed a level of demand that British labor alone could never supply. This is what empires have done throughout history. They leverage their wealth and military dominance to extract foreign sources of labor so the domestic population can live above their means.

Would your house be as big, or as cheap, if these three problems are fixed? Would you drive as nice a car? Would you make as much money as you do now? Would that money have the value it currently has? Yes, this country was founded on immigration. At first is was an economic necessity. Today, it is an economic luxury. The connection is rarely made between immigration and the Great Depression. Guess when the last time the US had as many illegal and legal immigrants as today? Yes, it started after the Civil War and increased to record levels through the 1920's, then it TANKED with the Great Depression. Everyone looks to the stock market crash of 1929 as the singular event that started the depression. BUT, what led to the overvaluation in the stock market in 1929? The metric most look to was the Federal Reserve raising rates, 2% points to tackle inflation that sprang up in the 1920's. We have played with this fire before. We have done a much better job managing it this time around, but it always ends up out of control at some point due to some unforeseen external factor. War, pandemic, whatever. We have far more control points at our disposal today to manage the system than we did in the 1920's. But it's the same game, same scheme, and it ends the same way eventually.

Traditionally, when the American citizens recoil against immigrants, and there are too many immigrants here, economic hardship is on the horizon. History repeats itself, which is another problem we have. Our education system stinks for a very specific reason. 17 years of education, 5 in higher education at the university level, and NO ONE EVER taught me how to balance a checkbook, about taxes, about insurance, about debt, about credit cards and debt management, stocks, IRA's, retirement savings, etc. If you rely on the education system funded by our tax dollars, you will go through 16+ years of education and come out brilliant as an engineer, and ignorantly financially. Most financial literacy comes from parents, and that can be good or bad, depending on your parents. But it will NOT depend on your teachers in school. I had the luxury of having a mother who worked in banking for 40+ years. She knows the game. Most in Congress know the game too. The problem we are having, and it's an increasing problem, are people being elected to Congress attacking these "problems", without having the knowledge to understand just how screwed we are if they're fixed. So they don't fix them, are informed, and get reelected, while continuing the rhetoric. But those ranks of uninformed are growing, and they can pop the bubble, in time. And probably will if it doesn't pop itself somehow.

flag link

military_tech

thumb_down

thumb_up

Two really big flaws in US immigration come to mind.

I’m all for immigration

Any limiting factors?

Might add willingness to pick tomatoes, work in chicken processing plants …

Re: I’m all for immigration

Don't build a wall. Build a funnel.

That all sounds nice. But you have to ask yourself, why?

Two really big flaws in US immigration come to mind.

Immigration should be extremely difficult

TigerBoard POTD