I'm afraid I'm going to have to destroy your first line

Wow, there must be

RPMcMurphy · 2023-11-28T03:14:17.908Z

LOTS of MAGA crazies out there. https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/11/poll-56-percent-voters-believe-cheating-is-likely/

tabbyplague®

Orange Phenom [14752]

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Posts: 6329

Joined: 2004

Here's the problem IMO...

Nov 28, 2023, 10:55 AM

Joe Biden got more votes than Barrack Obama - that's just hard for anybody to believe regardless of any of the Trump drone cheating claims.

Now - Obama's weakassed Republican opponents (McCain and Romney) were card carrying Republican Inc. club members for whom there was no real seething hatred among the left so maybe that accounted for Obama's lower than Biden vote totals. Maybe the Trump hate was a bigger driver to the polls for Democrats than love for Obama.

I'm more of the school that it was the mass - everyone get's one - mail-in balloting schemes that the Democrats capitalized on than anything else. I certainly suspect there was some fraud (from bribes to ballot stuffing by 3rd party ballot collectors etc...) but as to the level of fraud claimed by Trump I have serious doubts.

The bigger issue to me is the Constitutionality of the voting schemes (mass mail balloting and easing of ballot fraud prevention requirements) themselves that Democratic lawyers got implemented prior to the 2020 election. Democratic lawyers (particularly Marc Elias - former Perkins Coie Clinton lawyer and now leader of the Elias Law Group) went to numerous States and essentially modified and/or outright changed existing voting laws/requirements. They did this not through State legislatures but via State Executive branch agreements and State judges. This to me is the real "cheating" that is hiding behind a veil of legal wrangling. Especially in cases where these agreements are/were completely counter to the explicit State legislative voting laws that were /are in place.

In some places, these lawyers not only secured automatic mass mail-in balloting to all residents, (registered/unregistered voters didn't matter) they neutered State voting law signature requirements, voter proof of residency requirements, mail-in ballot arrival date requirements, voter ID requirements and most other anti-fraud ballot measures. Everything from drop boxes, ballot harvesting by 3rd parties to extending vote collection for days/weeks after election day were sought by these lawyers. All of this was done without State legislative approval which is a violation of Article I, Section 4, Clause 1 of the US Constitution. Nowhere in the US Constitution is any Executive branch or Judge given the right to create/modify State voting laws - it is clearly a power designated only to the legislative branch of government.

So... Here we are - living in a system now where just about anything goes as far as ballot distribution, collection/acceptance where in some states mass mail-in ballots won't even be counted until days after election day. We are going from an "election day" to an "election week/month". It is ridiculous and detrimental to our election system because the longer an election is drawn out beyond the actual election day to "count votes" the more people, including myself, will tend to not trust the result.

All of this brings me to my final two points.

First point: Voting should require some level of effort on the part of a voter. Whether that means to acquire the proper voter identification documents, registering to vote, individually requesting an absentee ballot and ensuring it arrives before election day or showing up at the polls during early voting/election day - so be it. The idea that we must spoon feed ballots to every adult in the USA to the point where no effort is required is abhorrent to me. Especially when I have seen people in other countries walk 3 days through a desert to vote. If people are too lazy to do the easy requirements to vote then they are almost certainly too lazy to study the candidates/issues to know what they are voting for.

Second point - to use an old cliche "If we can put a man on the moon - then why can't we have an election system that fully guarantees only legal and legitimate votes are accepted and fully counted by the end of election day??"...

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I'm not aware of the SCOTUS receiving or ruling on any Article 1, Section 4 related case and until it does I'll stick to what is the clear, unambiguous language of the actual Constitution:

"The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators."

Apparently we see being a citizen differently. IMO, being a US citizen should entail something more than just being lucky enough to pop out of a woman's womb in the USA.

IMO, every US citizen should expect that they have to put forth some effort to actively participate in the support and Governance of our society. That includes paying the required taxes, abiding by our laws, and in the case of voting - putting forth the effort to register and request a ballot if needed.

None of the voting stuff is hard to do but in most States does require a minimum level of "get off your a.s.s" to do it. Why should we send ballots to people who show no inclination to otherwise vote??

Truthfully I don't want anyone voting who would not otherwise do so had they not gotten an unsolicited ballot automatically sent to them and then had some political operative drop by their house to get them to fill it out and collect it for them. That goes for all people of this ilk - both Democrat and Republican. But that is what is turning our elections right now - people who don't really care enough to otherwise vote, who are most likely ignorant of what they are voting for, and just fill out the forms they got mailed to them because some person at their door is recommending they fill it out a certain way.

I can easily accept the results of an election where Citizens who put forth the effort to vote (register and request mail-in ballots or go to the polls) vote in opposition to me. But playing this ballot collection to the lowest common denominator game is taking us to the deep depths of our societal laziness where eventually (if not already happening) the political parties are going focus more on creating votes instead of earning them.

Wow, there must be

An extraordinarily successful campaign of misinformation by Trump

Re: An extraordinarily successful campaign of misinformation by Trump

The Politics board is the wrong place to discuss politics?

THE DIRTY NO GOOD CHEATIN ELECTION BORED!!!***

That's right. I always forget that board exists.***

TAKE IT TO THE I FORGET ABOUT BOARDS BOARD!***

People saw the video

A simple "no, I don't have hard evidence" would have sufficed.

Also, please answer my previous question:

The OP

I mean, you're proving my point here.

And their answers, as 19B said, are based on...

Do you not think its strange that YOU think there was cheating

Re: Wow, there must be

Why do you think

Re: Why do you think

And since cheating is not a problem

Re: And since cheating is not a problem

Re: Why do you think

Another thing that's simply not happening

Re: Another thing that's simply not happening

My answer is not a simple yes or no, but what constitutional test to apply.

I didn't say that.

Re: I didn't say that.

You have a 'bestest' at the Brennan Center? (and you say you're conservative)***

"First, state election officials are required by law

Did you think

Strange polling company to trust

Here's the problem IMO...

Re: Here's the problem IMO...

I guess you didn't bother reading past line one...

Well, I think you didn't read all mine...

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree...

Truthfully, I would be in favor if each State took their State firearm purchase

Sadly, yes there are.***

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